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Sweet, new official Savlar Chem-Dog art, didn't expect that

Also more proof that the new genestealer neophyte models should be used for all light infantry because they look so good.

SilverAlien wrote:
Also more proof that the new genestealer neophyte models should be used for all light infantry because they look so good.

I suddenly had the image of them forming the base of the Drookian Fen Guard. Their bodies with cadian legs (converted to kilts) and arms with Victoria's bare gas mask heads. There's just something about that body armour they're wearing that's really really 40kish.

Valhalla is up! Apparently they wont die!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/09/28/regiment-focus-valhallans-sep28gw-homepage-post-2/

Also conscripts get orders on a 4+ and only come in 20-30, so not a huge nerf, which makes me think they got a point increase....

I am loving the order to shoot into combat, hitting your own guys on a 1! Plus the stratagem for sending in the next wave totally confirms combined squads being a rule for another stratagem

Love Valhallan traits. I'll wait to see what the others are, but I might be buying little fur hats.

I think if they got a point increase they would have mentioned it, like they mentioned the decrease on the LRBT.

Besides, that's already two nerfs. Do you really think they need a 33% points hike on top of that? They're trying to balance them, not eradicate them from existence.

Also, combined squads indirectly confirmed as a stratagem. I think we're really going to want those 21CP builds, we have so much to spend it on.

 ChargerIIC wrote:
Love Valhallan traits. I'll wait to see what the others are, but I might be buying little fur hats.

makes me want to run an all infantry list with over 200 bodies. I'd say run it WITHOUT commissars just to show the naysayers and have over 21 command points to keep recycling my conscripts. Need an objective? Simply apply guardsman until the problem goes away

I'm stumped about what to do with my superheavy tank regiment.

They got a great buff, and Vostroyan regiment tactics are pretty good, but so are the Catachan ones.

The others are (apparently, from Warhammer TV
Tallarn: Advance and shoot except heavy weapons, vehicles don't suffer the -1
Steel Legion: Rapid Fire up to 18", Vehicles ignore AP-1
Cadians: Re-roll 1s to hit if they don't move.

I hope we get a strategem or something that allows us to outflank a unit. Even just one unit would be enough fun for me.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I hope we get a strategem or something that allows us to outflank a unit. Even just one unit would be enough fun for me.

That'll probably be for the Tallarns. Loving these Valhallan traits too. Really fluffy for them!

I'm really digging those Valhallans traits, those are some really useful abilities. Their tanks are going to fire at full effect for a very long time and that can not be understated this edition since our accuracy on them goes down so quickly.

Their morale rule is also incredibly helpful. Sniping commissars is a pretty common thing in my area. Having a way to cut routs in half without them gives me some redundancy for morale.

Plus we got send in the next wave on everything, not just conscripts, that's amazing. You can use vet squads to charge up the board, snipe something, then just bring them back in your deployment to deal with an enemy deepstriking, or bring back a heavy weapon squad knocked out earlier in the battle once the enemy's long range shooting is neutered.

Just an all around flexible and appropriate trait for them. May not be the most insane, but definitely up there in usefulness.

Not to mention we finally got an order to shoot into combat. My only question is how "friendly" units work. If I have Valhallans and Catachans for example, can the Valhallans "help" my Catachans by shooting into their combat?

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
I'm really digging those Valhallans traits, those are some really useful abilities. Their tanks are going to fire at full effect for a very long time and that can not be understated this edition since our accuracy on them goes down so quickly.

Their morale rule is also incredibly helpful. Sniping commissars is a pretty common thing in my area. Having a way to cut routs in half without them gives me some redundancy for morale.

Plus we got send in the next wave on everything, not just conscripts, that's amazing. You can use vet squads to charge up the board, snipe something, then just bring them back in your deployment to deal with an enemy deepstriking, or bring back a heavy weapon squad knocked out earlier in the battle once the enemy's long range shooting is neutered.

Just an all around flexible and appropriate trait for them. May not be the most insane, but definitely up there in usefulness.

Not to mention we finally got an order to shoot into combat. My only question is how "friendly" units work. If I have Valhallans and Catachans for example, can the Valhallans "help" my Catachans by shooting into their combat?

I think the shooter must be Valhallan but I see no reason why you can't shoot Catachans all day.

I like the idea of running a suicide squad of melta or flamer vets in a Taurox and rocketing them at somthing across the board and bringing them back again for fun times, ideally i'd also throw in a heavy weapon for reasons

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

Not to mention we finally got an order to shoot into combat. My only question is how "friendly" units work. If I have Valhallans and Catachans for example, can the Valhallans "help" my Catachans by shooting into their combat?

Doesn't say the engaged unit needs to be Valhallan - or even Guard. Subject to the Codex clarifying, Vahallans could shoot at a unit engaged with a friendly unit of Marines or a friendly Knight.

The doctrines just keep getting better! So far I like everything I see in this update. I'm happy about the conscripts still being usable and send in the next wave is awesome! Happy about baneblade s being able to fire on the move without penalty and the crush them all ability is amazing as well...


My god I'm loving how this codex is looking.... much excite

Has this pic:



ever been used before? I'm wondering if we're seeing a sneak preview of future plastic Valhallans.

There's 7 regiments not counting the storm troopers right? Assuming 3 boxed sets per regiment, that's 21 boxed sets total. I still think GW could do that. How many sets do the marines have for all the various squad, armour and chapter types? More than 21 I bet. They should realise that if they make them, people will buy them.

Also, I'm comparing the Valhallan traits to the Death Korp one. Which is better? I think the Valhallan one is. More useful at least anyway.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Has this pic:



ever been used before? I'm wondering if we're seeing a sneak preview of future plastic Valhallans.

There's 7 regiments not counting the storm troopers right? Assuming 3 boxed sets per regiment, that's 21 boxed sets total. I still think GW could do that. How many sets do the marines have for all the various squad, armour and chapter types? More than 21 I bet. They should realise that if they make them, people will buy them.

Also, I'm comparing the Valhallan traits to the Death Korp one. Which is better? I think the Valhallan one is. More useful at least anyway.

The pic isn't new, its from the cover of the IG novel Ice Guard.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Has this pic:



ever been used before? I'm wondering if we're seeing a sneak preview of future plastic Valhallans.

There's 7 regiments not counting the storm troopers right? Assuming 3 boxed sets per regiment, that's 21 boxed sets total. I still think GW could do that. How many sets do the marines have for all the various squad, armour and chapter types? More than 21 I bet. They should realise that if they make them, people will buy them.

Also, I'm comparing the Valhallan traits to the Death Korp one. Which is better? I think the Valhallan one is. More useful at least anyway.

I think that pic is new, it seems to match the art style they are putting out with all the new AoS stuff.

I am actively looking to sell a kidney to afford plastic regiments if they ever make them, I gotta collect them all! =P

Valhallan get more toys and strats then the DKoK, so they will win everyday.

Wow, I'm loving the fluff rules for all the guard factions I'm definitely picking up some Fur hats this is exactly how I always imagined guard should play...... Send in wave after wave and shoot into your own troops if it helps defeat the enemies of the emperor

I like how you can pay CP to get "free stuff." So, you can really fit 2400+ points in a 2000 point list, again.

 Future War Cultist wrote:

Also, I'm comparing the Valhallan traits to the Death Korp one. Which is better? I think the Valhallan one is. More useful at least anyway.

The Death Korps trait ignores models slain in shooting, gives everyone WS3+ and gives them special orders, at the cost of +1 point cost for infantry. The Valhallan ones halves the casualties from all morale tests, and makes vehicles deal more damage when wounded. Arguably, the morale traits are about equal and you want the Krieg one versus shooty armies and the Valhallan ones against close combat ones, although Krieg has access to some cheaper buffs to leadership. More durable vehicles are nice though, but so are WS3+ if you want to play Krieg as they should be played. Of course, Korpsmen are slightly more expensive and have worse options...

Anyway, I agree with you that the traits are quite equal in a vacuum but the Valhallan one is generally better for the normal kind of IG army even without factoring in the additional cost. The Death Korps however has one big advantage: they can use whatever units they want. If they keep the rule that your entire army needs to be Valhallan/Cadian/etc in order to gain the doctrinal benefit, you can't use allies without losing your bonuses whereas the Death Korps do not suffer any restriction and can quite happily take whatever they want.

 Aenarian wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:

Also, I'm comparing the Valhallan traits to the Death Korp one. Which is better? I think the Valhallan one is. More useful at least anyway.

The Death Korps trait ignores models slain in shooting, gives everyone WS3+ and gives them special orders, at the cost of +1 point cost for infantry. The Valhallan ones halves the casualties from all morale tests, and makes vehicles deal more damage when wounded. Arguably, the morale traits are about equal and you want the Krieg one versus shooty armies and the Valhallan ones against close combat ones, although Krieg has access to some cheaper buffs to leadership. More durable vehicles are nice though, but so are WS3+ if you want to play Krieg as they should be played. Of course, Korpsmen are slightly more expensive and have worse options...

Anyway, I agree with you that the traits are quite equal in a vacuum but the Valhallan one is generally better for the normal kind of IG army even without factoring in the additional cost. The Death Korps however has one big advantage: they can use whatever units they want. If they keep the rule that your entire army needs to be Valhallan/Cadian/etc in order to gain the doctrinal benefit, you can't use allies without losing your bonuses whereas the Death Korps do not suffer any restriction and can quite happily take whatever they want.

no idea about the IG codex but elsewhere it's always been detachment based. So you'd have a detachment of Valhallans, detachment of catachans, and a detachment of Ultramarines and as long as no units were brought in another detachment you're set and get you're special rules.

 Marmatag wrote:
I like how you can pay CP to get "free stuff." So, you can really fit 2400+ points in a 2000 point list, again.

That's not quite the same thing.

CP are a limited resource, (granted, more plentiful in a Guard list comparatively) and unlike summoning, which was the worst offender BY FAR, getting a unit back is nowhere near as powerful.

Considering you have to completely lose the unit to bring it back, a cagey opponent will whittle a squad down to 2 or 3 models if they can and leave it, forcing you to push that unit up in an effort to charge in and have it killed completely to SITNW it back to their board edge. Unless there's a rule/function to remove a squad that's been depleted, you can very much dictate when or even if a squad gets recycled. In addition, you do pay for that squad initially to put it on the board, unlike previous summoning of whatever daemon unit you pulled out of the hat in 7th edition for no points cost what-so-ever.

I'm not saying you won't be forced to kill a squad off completely at some point to deal with a pressing threat (Lascannon/Autocannon heavy weapon team, or squad, for example) but if it's a conscript squad, or similar chaff unit with minimal upgrades, shoot it till it's down to 3 models or less and then let them halve their leadership losses to reduce it to one or two models and ignore it. So long as those couple of guardsmen are alive, their unit will stay in the dead pile.

Just my thoughts on that. Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

no idea about the IG codex but elsewhere it's always been detachment based. So you'd have a detachment of Valhallans, detachment of catachans, and a detachment of Ultramarines and as long as no units were brought in another detachment you're set and get you're special rules.

Probably right. I haven't kept up with 40k due to university consuming all my hours. Anyway, DKoK allows mixing as well if number of detachments become an issue.

Send in the next wave is best used on expensive units - it might be a better tactic now to take a few vet squads with triple plasma and lascannon just for the possibility of recycling something powerful when they die. I suspect it's best used with something long ranged like the vet squad too rather than something more close ranged. Triple lascannon HWSs are another good target. They should still be able to fire their lascannons on 5+ BS when they setup afresh.

Yeah SITNW's big weakness now is that the unit must be dead in order to recycle, you don't get to choose when to remove them like in 5th. This means smart players can leave a squad whittled down to a couple of guys and move on.

Until you remember defender takes casualties, then you realize that in order to shut down a vet squad with plasma pistol, x3 plasma, and a lascannon, you'd have to kill everyone, since as long as the IG player has at least 1 man alive in the squad he will keep some sort of effective weapon going. Granted I'd rather face a guard squad with 1 lascannon than a full vet squad but it's still an important thing to remember. This happens to me a lot, I often have scattered heavy weapons and special weapons by turn 5 that are the sole survivors of their squads. With this strategem, I would need to figure out clever ways to kill my own men to respawn them.

That said, things like command squads packed with special weapons and a standard (so you can get LD bonuses where you need them in your line) kitted out vet squads, and high profile heavy weapon squads like lascannons get a lot of mileage out of it. It allows you to use high risk aggressive elements and then turn around and deploy them defensively or even just so you can move the whole army up, then respawn dead units on your home objective later in the game. Since you get to wait until you want to pop it a unit that dies turn 1 could come back turn 6 to take an objective.

It's an incredibly flexible and useful strategy but it will be tricky to use and I suspect it will be a trap, either with players saving points for it until it's too late, or blowing their points turn 2 reinforcing their army only to realize they have no rerolls or fallback strategem. At the very least it will be worth it for the pyschological effect on the opponent. Weather a turn 1 alpha strike only to respawn all your dead units would be frustrating for anyone to deal with, even if the units aren't that good or those CP's could be spent elsewhere. At least now I can mess with Necron players again like I used to in 5th


One final note though, anyone else a little convinced that Get Back in the Fight is probably being removed or modified? We've gotten two different orders that allow shooting into combat and various other doctrines that assist with it. If Get Back in the fight is unchanged, these new abilities are kind of pointless, as falling back and shooting will always be the superior choice. That, or commissars are going to prevent units from willingly falling back from combat (you know, their job) and would be a pretty critical nerf to what makes commissars so powerful right now. Taking them would be a very serious consideration as not being able to fall back at a critical point could lose you the game. That said, I haven't seen any new batreps with the codex so it could already have been shown that this isn't the case.

Potentially amusing application of SITNW: with grav chute insertion you can embark, move, and disembark a unit in the same turn. So if you have two valkyries and two veteran squads to put in them, you can cycle them.

Drop the squads, fly back to the deployment zone next turn. From then on when one dies, as soon as it recycles there will be a Valkyrie waiting to pick it up and ferry it to the front in a single movement phase.

Obviously potential hitches are if a squad dies turn 2 the valkyries won't be ready yet, and if both die at the same time you'll have to spend a turn resetting the valkyries again. Plus you can only do it a few times in a 5-turn game. But when it's working, every turn you'll have one Valkyrie dropping off a fresh squad while the other flies back from the squad it just dropped off.

So has anyone considered that battle cannons on regular leman russes are now nearly as good as baneblade cannons (and a million less points)?

Perhaps they will let baneblades shoot twice too!

Kdash wrote:
So, everything I’ve seen so far is leading me to wanting to have an army containing detachments from more than 1 regiment (from a competitive point of view).

For example, LR Spearhead with Vostroyan, Baneblade with Catachan and infantry brigade with maybe Mordian.

Simple idea would be that the Russes get the extra range (I’m thinking FW Conqueror and Vanquisher here with the co-axil SB), Baneblade gets all the re-rolls on the damage and the infantry get the bubblewrap with improved overwatch and potentially run around sniping characters with command squads in a Chimera.

100% guarantee this will change as we see even more of the regiments.

Fluffsise that's how the guard fight though. They even combine regiments together after heavy casualties.

 Marmatag wrote:
I like how you can pay CP to get "free stuff." So, you can really fit 2400+ points in a 2000 point list, again.

It ended so well last time, we had to give it another go.

 Marmatag wrote:
I like how you can pay CP to get "free stuff." So, you can really fit 2400+ points in a 2000 point list, again.

I can't hear you over your chapter master stratgem