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Greetings humble guardsmen,

Today saw the release of the mordian iron guard regimental tactics, as well as an update for the leman russ!
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/09/26/regiment-focus-mordian-sep26gw-homepage-post-2/
The commisariat has sent a survey to you, asking for your opinions in these developments. Response not optional.

I can see mordian leman russ, especially the punisher, being extremely powerful, with the ability to fire 40, yes 40! shots, and then hit on 5s in overwatch. Characters are going to have a very nasty time too.

ummm... wow.
that change to the russ is huge.

The change to grinding advance is glorious. I've only ever moved a leman russ once to get around some LOS blocking terrain. Double the shots against the primarch of the month? Yes Please.

Mordian's traits seem great for infantry but lackluster for vehicles. We really don't have much armor that can handle being charged even with the buff. Plus, what mordian player is going to allow their vehicles to be charged before their massive infantry formations are cut down?

Double the firepower of a Russ!?! Wow. I cant wait to see what the Steel Legion gets!

So what it is saying with that stratagem and doctrine that Mordian tanks can hit technically on a 4+ on Overwatch.

Who needs snipers when you have Mordians. That form firing squad order is pretty brutal.

 Kellevil wrote:
Double the firepower of a Russ!?! Wow. I cant wait to see what the Steel Legion gets!

Grinding Advance doesn't look like a Mordian specific rule. It's just showcasing a new rule the LR gets. So Steel Legion gets double the firepower of a Russ too.

Not a terrible trait for Mordian, but not amazing either. I think with the Russ buff, the Catachan trait will still be more useful for all the D6 turret weapons.

We'll see what the other regiments have to offer, but I'm already doubting I'll run my Mordians with the Mordian traits.

 ChargerIIC wrote:
The change to grinding advance is glorious. I've only ever moved a leman russ once to get around some LOS blocking terrain. Double the shots against the primarch of the month? Yes Please.

Mordian's traits seem great for infantry but lackluster for vehicles. We really don't have much armor that can handle being charged even with the buff. Plus, what mordian player is going to allow their vehicles to be charged before their massive infantry formations are cut down?

Well, with the defensive gunners strat and a Punisher I might consider using the Russ to screen the infantry rather than the other way around. Send that thing rumbling straight toward their assault units at 5" a turn, if they want to get past it they have to deal with 40 shots at BS4+ in both shooting and overwatch!

Though I guess if any actually make it through, then they'll "only" have to deal with the overwatch on subsequent turns because there's no GBitF for vehicles.

People need to remember that in 8th, you can fire unlimited amounts of Overwatchs in the same turn (Unless you are charged, of course)

 Purifier wrote:
Who needs snipers when you have Mordians. That form firing squad order is pretty brutal.

 Kellevil wrote:
Double the firepower of a Russ!?! Wow. I cant wait to see what the Steel Legion gets!

Grinding Advance doesn't look like a Mordian specific rule. It's just showcasing a new rule the LR gets. So Steel Legion gets double the firepower of a Russ too.

That's what I get for skimming the article

The Russ change is solid though I'm not sure it'll leapfrog to the top of the IG vehicle pool. Going to have to check.

Why is every guard army getting a bonus to LD? It could just be a coincidence with the last two, but it'll be weird if every regiment gets it.

Conscripts now overwatch as effectively as they normall shoot. That's actually a fairly big buff to the unit, particularly if it's get charged by a choppy glass cannon unit, like bezerkers or genestealers. Of course how good it is largely depends on how they address conscripts in the first place.

The sniper thing looks good, but honestly even the tougher generic HQs will shake off a shocking number of plasma shots. You've either gotta run a lot of plasma command squads and load them up in chimeras with your HQ or it won't amount to much.

SilverAlien wrote:
The Russ change is solid though I'm not sure it'll leapfrog to the top of the IG vehicle pool.

They don't have to. They just need to be a viable choice, and this gives them that, and then some.

SilverAlien wrote:
The Russ change is solid though I'm not sure it'll leapfrog to the top of the IG vehicle pool. Going to have to check.

Why is every guard army getting a bonus to LD? It could just be a coincidence with the last two, but it'll be weird if every regiment gets it.

Conscripts now overwatch as effectively as they normall shoot. That's actually a fairly big buff to the unit, particularly if it's get charged by a choppy glass cannon unit, like bezerkers or genestealers. Of course how good it is largely depends on how they address conscripts in the first place.

The sniper thing looks good, but honestly even the tougher generic HQs will shake off a shocking number of plasma shots. You've either gotta run a lot of plasma command squads and load them up in chimeras with your HQ or it won't amount to much.

Remember lasguns are rapid fire weapons too so you can do this with your conscripts. Also, the leadership buff is very fluffy for mordians, not so sure about catachans, but well see

The Russ Buff has been loooong overdue. This actually makes them a considerable threat assuming their pricepoint remains unchanged (or gets lowered).

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
The Russ Buff has been loooong overdue. This actually makes them a considerable threat assuming their pricepoint remains unchanged (or gets lowered).

The article says they got cheaper.

Edit: Man I'm having issues with dakka today. Ignore this.

ohehehehehehe

I just realized the potential of this for a gunline of leman russ punishers.

Booger ork wrote:
Remember lasguns are rapid fire weapons too so you can do this with your conscripts. Also, the leadership buff is very fluffy for mordians, not so sure about catachans, but well see

It takes 135 shots at bs 5+ to kill a basic chaos lord with lasguns. 270 to kill a tech priest dominus, 324 to kill a terminator lord.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but you need multiple units of conscripts in RF range for even fairly basic HQs.

How about a Mordian Malcador Defender on the +1 Overwatch CT in Close Order? Charge it... I dare you.

SilverAlien wrote:

Booger ork wrote:
Remember lasguns are rapid fire weapons too so you can do this with your conscripts. Also, the leadership buff is very fluffy for mordians, not so sure about catachans, but well see

It takes 135 shots at bs 5+ to kill a basic chaos lord with lasguns. 270 to kill a tech priest dominus, 324 to kill a terminator lord.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but you need multiple units of conscripts in RF range for even fairly basic HQs.

Only takes 2 plasma/Melta command squads to kill cawl though

Booger ork wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:

Booger ork wrote:
Remember lasguns are rapid fire weapons too so you can do this with your conscripts. Also, the leadership buff is very fluffy for mordians, not so sure about catachans, but well see

It takes 135 shots at bs 5+ to kill a basic chaos lord with lasguns. 270 to kill a tech priest dominus, 324 to kill a terminator lord.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but you need multiple units of conscripts in RF range for even fairly basic HQs.

Only takes 2 plasma/Melta command squads to kill cawl though

What would those units cost in the current state of affairs? It sounds like our characters are in jeopardy now, but first of all, I think that's how it should be, the only problem is if AM are the only ones with this kind of hard counter, especially if chaos/xenos get nothing like it, and second of all, if the price point of those two units is too high, it might just be a way too risky thing to bring, as you will HAVE to put them in tin cans (a use for chimeras? Why I never...) since if you don't get first turn, those poor bastards are gonna be a lot of points in the open.

Booger ork wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:

Booger ork wrote:
Remember lasguns are rapid fire weapons too so you can do this with your conscripts. Also, the leadership buff is very fluffy for mordians, not so sure about catachans, but well see

It takes 135 shots at bs 5+ to kill a basic chaos lord with lasguns. 270 to kill a tech priest dominus, 324 to kill a terminator lord.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but you need multiple units of conscripts in RF range for even fairly basic HQs.

Only takes 2 plasma/Melta command squads to kill cawl though

Melta can't target him, RF only. Plasma could do it, if you get all 8 in RF range. Which frankly already signals something went wrong, you can screen further back.

It's a usable tactic, but it's got easy counters and relies on spamming glass cannon units.

Man, I completely forgot about the RF part. That's a bit of a bummer, actually. Makes it a fairly useless order, except maybe against other guard players (comissars)

The only thing is getting plasma teams in range, but even at 24", it's still more efficient than sniper rifles, is multipurpose, and serves as a backup since you can theoretically have your entire army snipe as needed.

And with there being no AOE rules in 8th, Close Order Drill is exactly the sort of thing I was worried would appear.

Oh.
Oh.
Tank Commander Punisher is looking REALLY scary right now.
That thing deletes a squad of infantry outright per turn.

 MagicJuggler wrote:
The only thing is getting plasma teams in range, but even at 24", it's still more efficient than sniper rifles, is multipurpose, and serves as a backup since you can theoretically have your entire army snipe as needed.

And with there being no AOE rules in 8th, Close Order Drill is exactly the sort of thing I was worried would appear.

Plasma teams are rapidfire?

And why does close order drill worry you? They could just as well have given the bonus without the requirement attached. Would that have made you less worried? And with the wording, as long as the unit is standing two and two, they can spread out as much as they want. Templates wouldn't have done much more against that anyway. The only real restriction is that mordians aren't going to want to have tanks out on solo missions.

 Purifier wrote:

 MagicJuggler wrote:
The only thing is getting plasma teams in range, but even at 24", it's still more efficient than sniper rifles, is multipurpose, and serves as a backup since you can theoretically have your entire army snipe as needed.

And with there being no AOE rules in 8th, Close Order Drill is exactly the sort of thing I was worried would appear.

Plasma teams are rapidfire?

Plasma guns are Rapid Fire 1, yes.

And with the wording, as long as the unit is standing two and two, they can spread out as much as they want.

I don't think that's on purpose though, so I'd expect a FAQ / Errata pretty soon - they had a similar wording on Aegis Defense Lines through most of 7th just to finally clarify that they meant an uninterrupted line of walls - I think that's what they were going for here, too. I mean Mordians aren't know for holding hands "kindergarden excursion"-style, they're known for forming tight ranks.

But if any IG player dislikes that playstyle, there's a really easy fix to that. Don't play Mordians.

Yeah unless conscripts are addressed the Overwatch on a 5+ worries me very much as it doubles their effectiveness in overwatch, with fall back this means chewing through them in combat just got a whole lot more painful.

I worry about the whole base-to-base rule. I predict a lot of slow playing thanks to that, and it won't be intentional.

I actually brought up the aegis rule and how they faqed that when I was talking to my friends about how they could fail this wording again. I understand the intent, I just find it ludicrous that they keep missing things like this. I understand they're pushing a lot of things at once right now, but these are some huge glaring things that are slipping through.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

drbored wrote:
I worry about the whole base-to-base rule. I predict a lot of slow playing thanks to that, and it won't be intentional.

Actually, Mordian players could get movement bases with this kind of setup.