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You can't say that until the dex is out.

Seems like every battle report I watch on YouTube that says it has Eldar is really just a farseer and wraith units, with no actual Eldar beyond the farseer.

Eldar are strong with so much to choose from and so much diversity...rivaling the Imperial forces.

For the most part the other strong armies like Orks, Nids, Crons and Tau all are pretty limited to one style of play. Sure lots of unit variations....but still when you see Tau you see lots of long range shooting, Orks and Nids will outnumber you and Crons seem to have the most limited choices....like a pared down Marine list with fun rules.

Eldar has always been able to play ok as an infantry list, mobile tech list, psychic list, jetbike list, warpjumping list and some others depending on the edition. They are just a different army than most.

 admironheart wrote:
Eldar are strong with so much to choose from and so much diversity...rivaling the Imperial forces.

For the most part the other strong armies like Orks, Nids, Crons and Tau all are pretty limited to one style of play. Sure lots of unit variations....but still when you see Tau you see lots of long range shooting, Orks and Nids will outnumber you and Crons seem to have the most limited choices....like a pared down Marine list with fun rules.

Eldar has always been able to play ok as an infantry list, mobile tech list, psychic list, jetbike list, warpjumping list and some others depending on the edition. They are just a different army than most.

Hmm... not so sure about infantry lists, eldar infantry is expensive and fragile (not a good combination). Footdar is a thing, but it generally seems to involve extremely careful play, along with a bunch of units like jetbikes to take the heat from your footsoldiers. Mobile tech and jetbikes are the same thing really.

Eldar can pretty much do Mobile tech, and mobile tech with psychic support. Which is fine, it's what Eldar should be good at. Just saying it's not like Eldar are all that diverse - its not like you can run a dreadnought/MC list (like SM and nids can) or an armoured company (like IG) or a horde list (also like IG, and orks and nids).

I've played eldar since 3rd edition and like you I am an elf fan in games like D&D so space elves and I really like their lore, 7th edition was horrible, I hated the formations from the beginning because it made so many armies miles better than others, I just refused to buy in to the scatter laser jetbike spam (I have 6 with shuriken cannons that worked out quite well this edition) and warp spider spam (hoping for plastic aspect warriors some time soon). My gaming group tend to play strong lists but nothing stupid apart from one player who decided to go for dark angels ravenwing so I'd use ynnari against him. You'll see a lot of hate online because of the power players that flocked to eldar when they realised how easily things could be abused, now I'm hoping the codex brings craftworlds up to power to compete with death guard or at least be viable to take rather than ynnari being a straight up free upgrade, I'm hoping for individual craftworld traits that are fairly powerful but only benefit rather select units such as ulth'wei guardians getting a decent buff, maybe alaitoc rangers cause mortal wounds on a wound of 5+ instead of 6 (similar to an old rule they had) and maybe saim Hannah jetbikes ignoring the penalty for moving and shooting heavy weapons. All in all you've picked one of the best armies aesthetically in my opinion and only time will tell on the codex, they just need to update the range!

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
Seems like every battle report I watch on YouTube that says it has Eldar is really just a farseer and wraith units, with no actual Eldar beyond the farseer.

Which just highlights the issue with balance within the codex. Hopefully when the codex is released it addresses that and brings back each of the Aspect Shrines to the game

Niiru wrote:
You'll find in this game that imperium players will always complain the loudest about other armies having units that kill them. They'll also be the ones saying that units like gallivanting gulliman and scions are perfectly balanced, even though noone else has anything even vaguely equivalent.

It has always been this way in 40k, a side effect of imperium armies being the default/average choice, particularly among less mature players.

Not saying all players are like this, as that's not true, but there's definitely a large community that gives a bad impression.

Way too true... but then it's not like the majority can be wrong, this is democracy after all.


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hobojebus wrote:
Op in 4th edition and then again in 6th & 7th, classic case of fanboys in the dev team screwing over balance in favour of making their favorite army the best.

You should probably define OP for this to make sense.

In 4th edition, Eldar had a SHOT at competing, but were by no means the top army in 40K.
In 5th edition, they were nearly garbage and the best builds had a shot at somewhat landing not too far from top 10.
In 6th edition, until the Eldar codex, they were garbage.
In 6th edition, after the Eldar codex, they were top tier, nearly on par with Tau, Chaos Daemons, Necrons and Space Marines for the rest of the edition (i.e. they weren't ever above 57% win against other competitive armies).
In 7th edition, before the Dark Eldar codex, they were in pretty much the same position.
In 7th edition, before the Eldar codex, they were a bit lower.
In 7th edition, after the Eldar codex, they were back on top, still duking it out with other very competitive armies.

And then GW released the Space Marine Powers, and super_best_friends Electro displacement deathstars started getting a 75%+ win rate, were banned from many competitive events and generally roflstomped anything until the end of 7th.

But we'll all remember the Eldar as OP, because for less than 24 months, they dared take the top spot from an Imperial or Traitor army.

How dare those space elves steal the crown of the sons of the emperor... I wonder.

In total truth, they never were as dominant as IG has been for early 8th - or other codexes in other editions - and always required quite a bit of skill to play, but they're kind of a hate magnet anyway, probably because their miniatures look so much better than all the other ranges .... mon-keighs are just jelly that's all.


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Rihgu wrote:
Erm, Ork players were not pleased with 7th edition Eldar at all. Plenty of Ork players were not entirely overjoyed that their one good formation (Green Tide) was effectively hard countered by scatbikes, and that they may as well not even put the models on the table because of the foregone conclusion.

Are you talking about an edition where all of the Ork codex was garbage unfit for competition?

Because I wouldn't be hating only on "Eldar" about that.

I'm fairly sure even a crappy AM army with manticores would've ruined your day.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mantle wrote:
I've played eldar since 3rd edition and like you I am an elf fan in games like D&D so space elves and I really like their lore, 7th edition was horrible, I hated the formations from the beginning because it made so many armies miles better than others, I just refused to buy in to the scatter laser jetbike spam (I have 6 with shuriken cannons that worked out quite well this edition) and warp spider spam (hoping for plastic aspect warriors some time soon). My gaming group tend to play strong lists but nothing stupid apart from one player who decided to go for dark angels ravenwing so I'd use ynnari against him. You'll see a lot of hate online because of the power players that flocked to eldar when they realised how easily things could be abused, now I'm hoping the codex brings craftworlds up to power to compete with death guard or at least be viable to take rather than ynnari being a straight up free upgrade, I'm hoping for individual craftworld traits that are fairly powerful but only benefit rather select units such as ulth'wei guardians getting a decent buff, maybe alaitoc rangers cause mortal wounds on a wound of 5+ instead of 6 (similar to an old rule they had) and maybe saim Hannah jetbikes ignoring the penalty for moving and shooting heavy weapons. All in all you've picked one of the best armies aesthetically in my opinion and only time will tell on the codex, they just need to update the range!

Exactly, best miniatures ever, rules will be fine now and then and that's good enough.


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 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

3.5: Blood Angels (Those Baal vehicle rules and overboosts for them allowed them to assault with impunity), CSM combination cheese (typically a siren lord, IW lists.. quite a few!)
4E: I can't remember any dominant SM faction, I mostly remember Fish of Fury, Falcons, and Nids. IG guard lists took hunter-killers on everything though when they were 5 points apiece.
5E: Grey Knights, Necrons before then.
6E: Eldar, deathstars got their start here with Screamerstar.

Meanwhile, in the real world, there was a thing called Leafblower, which happens to be the most dominant list of its era.
And also, Necrons were crazy good at the beginning of 6th, which lasted at least until Tau or even Eldar codex.

Maybe some of your hatred is unjustified...

7th edition eldar losed badly to SM demicompany & Skyhammer formations et simila...

They were top tier, together with many other armies (SM, demons, Decurion+wraithspam necrons, etc)...

8th edition eldar are crap compared to Astra Militarum, Death Guard, Space Marines, Orks, Tyranids...

Eldar are low tier now.

FarseerReborn wrote:
7th edition eldar losed badly to SM demicompany & Skyhammer formations et simila...

They were top tier, together with many other armies (SM, demons, Decurion+wraithspam necrons, etc)...

8th edition eldar are crap compared to Astra Militarum, Death Guard, Space Marines, Orks, Tyranids...

Eldar are low tier now.

Nothing in this post is accurate except the losing to IG and Nids part.

Mainly due to them being either broken or disproportionately power for nearly every edition of the game.

In Dawn of War, you had to hunt down every Eldar building for ages as they could teleport hem around the battlefield.It was very annoying and they only way to stop this happening was to have squads of Imperial Guardsmen everywhere.

 CAPTAIN COWARD wrote:
In Dawn of War, you had to hunt down every Eldar building for ages as they could teleport hem around the battlefield.It was very annoying and they only way to stop this happening was to have squads of Imperial Guardsmen everywhere.

Dont forget the Dev Bias for eldar either!

 CAPTAIN COWARD wrote:
In Dawn of War, you had to hunt down every Eldar building for ages as they could teleport hem around the battlefield.It was very annoying and they only way to stop this happening was to have squads of Imperial Guardsmen everywhere.

They also had their builder unit teleporting huge distances and building stealthed buildings while you did that.

Speaking primarily as a chaos player id sooner play against a eldar army than a imperial one.
While eldar could be annoyingly powerful you could atleast attempt to have a relatively fun game where as
Space marines if playing ultrasmurfs could easily using 2 of the doctorines give the majority of their army re roll to hit of atleast 1s in the shooting phase for 2 turns
Be more powerful psykers than chaos sorcerors (evem though the lore often puts this the other way around)
With grav weapobs they could easily wipe any unit which wasnt a cultist off the board and cultists generally got bolters aimed at them.
Now am i denying eldar had some annoying crap like wraith knights and scat bikes? Nope but atleast i didnt have eldar armies removing what felt like 50% of my army in one turn.

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:
Speaking primarily as a chaos player id sooner play against a eldar army than a imperial one.
While eldar could be annoyingly powerful you could atleast attempt to have a relatively fun game where as
Space marines if playing ultrasmurfs could easily using 2 of the doctorines give the majority of their army re roll to hit of atleast 1s in the shooting phase for 2 turns
Be more powerful psykers than chaos sorcerors (evem though the lore often puts this the other way around)
With grav weapobs they could easily wipe any unit which wasnt a cultist off the board and cultists generally got bolters aimed at them.
Now am i denying eldar had some annoying crap like wraith knights and scat bikes? Nope but atleast i didnt have eldar armies removing what felt like 50% of my army in one turn.

Yeah, it was 75% of the army. I had many more close games vs ultras than Eldar. The White scar gladius was arguably more brutal, though. So many grav cannons.

Martel732 wrote:

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:
Speaking primarily as a chaos player id sooner play against a eldar army than a imperial one.
While eldar could be annoyingly powerful you could atleast attempt to have a relatively fun game where as
Space marines if playing ultrasmurfs could easily using 2 of the doctorines give the majority of their army re roll to hit of atleast 1s in the shooting phase for 2 turns
Be more powerful psykers than chaos sorcerors (evem though the lore often puts this the other way around)
With grav weapobs they could easily wipe any unit which wasnt a cultist off the board and cultists generally got bolters aimed at them.
Now am i denying eldar had some annoying crap like wraith knights and scat bikes? Nope but atleast i didnt have eldar armies removing what felt like 50% of my army in one turn.

Yeah, it was 75% of the army. I had many more close games vs ultras than Eldar. The White scar gladius was arguably more brutal, though. So many grav cannons.

I found vs eldar i had more close games than marines atleast against eldar i felt like i could do something. My poor black legion being out black legioned by smurfs oh the shame :(

Remember that the marines still had and have lots of useless units. Tac squads were only good as grav cannon life support. The ultrasmurfs didn't get the scout cheese, so you could outmaneuver the wall of rhinos quite frequently. Every single thing in a 7th ed eldar list was lethal. Every. Single. Thing.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
Seems like every battle report I watch on YouTube that says it has Eldar is really just a farseer and wraith units, with no actual Eldar beyond the farseer.

ooh such fibs, there's usually at least a pilot or two in the wraithflyers...err wait and the wave serpent drivers, some Eldar list contain upwards of 6 living Eldar

Martel732 wrote:
Remember that the marines still had and have lots of useless units. Tac squads were only good as grav cannon life support. The ultrasmurfs didn't get the scout cheese, so you could outmaneuver the wall of rhinos quite frequently. Every single thing in a 7th ed eldar list was lethal. Every. Single. Thing.

But not everything Eldar.

No, but that stuff simply weren't in the lists.

Martel732 wrote:
No, but that stuff simply weren't in the lists.

I could say the same about Space Marines.

pm713 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
No, but that stuff simply weren't in the lists.

I could say the same about Space Marines.

You could, but there was still 4 useless marines per tac squad and a fifth guy with a grav cannon. EVERY bike had a scatterlaser. There's way less waste in the 7th ed Eldar lists. The only thing keeping the marines in the game were the free vehicles. Take away gladius and you got BA or CSM. Even the marine good units were awful in comparison to Eldar units.

Martel732 wrote:
Remember that the marines still had and have lots of useless units. Tac squads were only good as grav cannon life support. The ultrasmurfs didn't get the scout cheese, so you could outmaneuver the wall of rhinos quite frequently. Every single thing in a 7th ed eldar list was lethal. Every. Single. Thing.

My storm guardians respectfully disagree with this statement. Also my vypers and falcons, the poor guys. That said, I do agree that there was some formidable cheese in our 7th ed dex.

Among the living troops, Dark Reapers and Fire Dragons are both pretty good for the points. Banshees are surprisingly decent in this edition too. They are one of the cheapest ways to unlock Wave Serpents and now that they actually assault on the turn they disembark, they stand a chance of living long enough to hit something with those power swords. S3 is a drawback but a Farseer Dooming their target makes them a lot more dangerous.

I have always loved my Banshees since 1st edition and thi is the first time since about 4th edition that they are actually worth fielding again.

I think eldar is hated because

1: Some people just don't like elves because they think that elves have a superiority complex or something.

2: Eldar has had units over the years that have been abused by competitive players. The problem is usually that the codices only give 2-5 competitive units that I guess the writers intended to be mixed into an army, but they end up getting spammed and ruining part of the competitive meta. There are some units that I still have never played with competitively over 10 years of playing eldar: Falcons, Swooping Hawks, Guardians, Striking Scorpions, Vypers, Howling Banshees, Wraithlords, Fire Prisms,

3. I think there's an old grudge between eldar and Imperial players (SM and IG) over who will get the most attention from games-workshop.

 Nykolo wrote:
I am a new player to 40k. I decided for my first army that I would play Eldar.

However, after looking at YouTube comments and a few forums, I noticed that Eldar are quite hated by many people.

So, noob question, what made the Eldar so hated in the 40k community?

The WraithKnight singlehandedly turned what was a very competitive army into a hated one. The Scatterlaser Jetbikes was really too much in most peoples opinions as well and when you combined it with making them troops choices (so that they got the Objective Secured rule) the shenanigans were easy to imagine.

Those two units, but especially the WraithKnight, made Eldar a serious pain in the ass. Frankly some Eldar players I know looked positively bored during their games. That's never a good sign for the opponent.

Martel732 wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
No, but that stuff simply weren't in the lists.

I could say the same about Space Marines.

You could, but there was still 4 useless marines per tac squad and a fifth guy with a grav cannon. EVERY bike had a scatterlaser. There's way less waste in the 7th ed Eldar lists. The only thing keeping the marines in the game were the free vehicles. Take away gladius and you got BA or CSM. Even the marine good units were awful in comparison to Eldar units.

There's a big difference between powerful things being in a codex and abusing the overly powerful things. Spam scatbikes and gladius are both highly powerful tournament-level cheese. Normal bikes and normal marines aren't awful. Same goes for falcons, land raiders, vypers, rhinos/razorbacks, etc., etc. If "EVERY bike had a scatterlaser," that is an issue with the person you're playing against kitting them out that way moreso than the codex.

That all being said, this is a debate that's been well asked and answered by now.

 Helvost wrote:


3. I think there's an old grudge between eldar and Imperial players (SM and IG) over who will get the most attention from games-workshop.

There's a clear winner now at least.

 Jancoran wrote:

 Nykolo wrote:
I am a new player to 40k. I decided for my first army that I would play Eldar.

However, after looking at YouTube comments and a few forums, I noticed that Eldar are quite hated by many people.

So, noob question, what made the Eldar so hated in the 40k community?

The WraithKnight singlehandedly turned what was a very competitive army into a hated one. The Scatterlaser Jetbikes was really too much in most peoples opinions as well and when you combined it with making them troops choices (so that they got the Objective Secured rule) the shenanigans were easy to imagine.

Those two units, but especially the WraithKnight, made Eldar a serious pain in the ass. Frankly some Eldar players I know looked positively bored during their games. That's never a good sign for the opponent.

Don't forget Aspect Host Warp Spiders, those things where seriously broken to deal with and their combination of pseudo fearless, jump shoot jump and then jump again when being shot at, nearly always wounding on 2s with their guns, and the aspect host making them even more effective with basically no tax. Also their super reliable psychic powers and access to lots of S weapons didn't help either.

 Vankraken wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

 Nykolo wrote:
I am a new player to 40k. I decided for my first army that I would play Eldar.

However, after looking at YouTube comments and a few forums, I noticed that Eldar are quite hated by many people.

So, noob question, what made the Eldar so hated in the 40k community?

The WraithKnight singlehandedly turned what was a very competitive army into a hated one. The Scatterlaser Jetbikes was really too much in most peoples opinions as well and when you combined it with making them troops choices (so that they got the Objective Secured rule) the shenanigans were easy to imagine.

Those two units, but especially the WraithKnight, made Eldar a serious pain in the ass. Frankly some Eldar players I know looked positively bored during their games. That's never a good sign for the opponent.

Don't forget Aspect Host Warp Spiders, those things where seriously broken to deal with and their combination of pseudo fearless, jump shoot jump and then jump again when being shot at, nearly always wounding on 2s with their guns, and the aspect host making them even more effective with basically no tax. Also their super reliable psychic powers and access to lots of S weapons didn't help either.

I understand why you would say that but Warp Spiders were only "crazy" in the context of an opponent that put no effort into pushing the field or assault. I know the conventional wisdom in 6E and 7E said it was guns or bust but I did famously and never had an enormous problem withthe Warp spider piece of the puzzle. That was strictly a matter of matchups. the Scatterbikes and Wtraithknight on the other hand were simply unfair advantages that no force could "overcome" with matchups.

But i do get why people might not have liked Warp Spiders.