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jouso wrote:
Price was definitely what prompted to go back to the drawing table.

According to their FB they're reworking some of the minis into monopose which for a starter box is pretty much standard to offer a better price.

Oh, and both sets of models are for sale separately anyway so everyone was going to check savings vs models purchased separately.

The price is bad for a starterset. We are also talking about resin miniatures, which really isn't suited for beginning players. Firstly cleaning up / working with resin is harmful for your healt if you don't use a proper dustmask.
Than the bizar notion that they think they can provide it to retailers is mindblowing. The amount of stock they need to proper supply different retailers in different countries is way to big for a tinyl company that uses resin. Resin production is time consuming and mould intensive. Let alone find enough flgs that would want to stock it on their shelfs.

While I love Brets and I hoped for years that GW would release new Brets I don't think the demand is high enough to really make a profit. With the fireforge range you can make a nice looking army that is in hard plastic and much cheaper and user friendly.

It seems a great company, but I think the overestimated T9A popularity as a vehicle to sell miniatures. Most of T9A players are veterans of Warhammer with huge collections, bringing in new T9A players is not an easy task and than as a beginning player / hobbyist working with resin is far from ideal.

Tonhel wrote:
Firstly cleaning up / working with resin is harmful for your healt if you don't use a proper dustmask.

Only if you're using power tools, which I'm guessing new players wouldn't, or if they are hopefully they know the safety precautions.

But yeah, resin isn't the easiest thing for newbies to work with.

While I love Brets and I hoped for years that GW would release new Brets I don't think the demand is high enough to really make a profit. With the fireforge range you can make a nice looking army that is in hard plastic and much cheaper and user friendly.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, the fireforge models don't look all that good IMO.

But being a starter set, yeah, too expensive, $175 is more than even GW's starter sets.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, the fireforge models don't look all that good IMO.

Agreed they are fairly fugly, but it is encouraging to see them start producing things which are nakedly aimed at filling in oldhammer gaps like this:



Now that the Age of Sigmar is upon us, GW's old world miniatures are going to start disappearing more and more. Loads of those minis will be cycling through the second market in various conditions for decades to come often at crazy prices but it certainly helps if there will be new kits being made by non-GW manufacturers for oldhammer even after GW has abandoned it.

This sub-forum should have a stickied resource which collects and reviews alternative kits suitable for oldhammer.

i liked Fireforges historicals, and used them for Frostgrave, so did Frostgrave. If you look at the miniatures photos there is a lot of Fireforge stuff used.
Frostgrave is not heroic pose though, I wonder if the new fantasy not-Bretonnians are scaled compatible to Citadel miniatures.

Anyway, anyone after Brets is better off with MoM Miniaturas
https://www.momminiaturas.com/miniaturas-fantasia/hijos-del-león/

and Norba Miniatures

http://norbaminiatures.com/en/22-kingdom-of-equitaine



Later when I can afford I will be placing a big order with Norba, particularly to get foot knights or Knights Forlorn as they are called in 9th Age.



It will cost me 30 Euro total for both packs, 18 Euro for the command group and 12 Euro for rank and file sets.
I find both Norba and MOM to be good value and the internet reviews indicate they are decent sculpts.
Interesting thing is that one can currently buy pretty much an entire range of Brets from Norba and MOM, and they were one of the more difficult armies to source.

well 2.0 just landed for beta and I go banned from the forums for saying it was a gakky idea to remove hellcannons from Warriors 2.0. My point being that one of the founding principles of T9A was to not invalidate peoples models for any reason.... Apparantly I can use it as a portal opening monster (vortex beast springs to mind)....... :/ my second point was that companies who are actively supporting T9A by manufaturing models that would be otherwise unattainable for use, like rottenfactory.eu (make a wicked hellcannon) are going to feel the brunt of it too.

Given, it was more because the admins gave painfully passive agressive answers and were incredibley condescending.

I dont take that gak laying down, admin or not. Pow! ban-hammer.

Anyway, Conquest looks like a mint game ;

www.parabellum.com
www.facebook.com/parabellumwargames
https://youtu.be/5L8jJwuQRtA

 and I got banned from the forums

Congratulations!

But yeah, all that's stuff par for the course with them. Especially the very rude mods. ("9th never promised you whiners anything about sustaining 8th edition collections" such bull. XD )

Fully agreed on Conquest, that game looks amazing!

 Davidian wrote:
Anyway, Conquest looks like a mint game

Never heard of it, will check it out.
Have a look at Kings of War though, the well written rules and balance are quite refreshing after GW.

Hehe, funny you should mention KoW considering the person behind Conquest.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/740261.page

hehe, cheers but I've been playing Kow since v1

I just enjoyed 9th age alongside it, on it's own merits tbf...

The thread I was booted out on now have community support, rules team and background team members at each others throats.... sheesh...

Yeah, Conquest looks like a really nice supplement to KoW.

KoW is MASS battle, 100s of dudes going toe-to-toe on a massive battle field.

Conquest is smaller model count, smaller battle space (bigger minis too) with completely different game mechanics.

it's also as good (if not marginallly more) valure as KoW.

Not saying the two should compete, I think they both have a place on my top shelf

I've just srtarted multibasing my warriors for Varangur

 Davidian wrote:
My point being that one of the founding principles of T9A was to not invalidate peoples models for any reason....

Well, it is not invalidated as such. It just shoots something else.

A couple games into 2.0 and I'm loving the new magic system. Still too soon on everything else.

jouso wrote:

 Davidian wrote:
My point being that one of the founding principles of T9A was to not invalidate peoples models for any reason....

Well, it is not invalidated as such. It just shoots something else.

A couple games into 2.0 and I'm loving the new magic system. Still too soon on everything else.

XD as an (ex)member of the community engagement team, I spent a great deal of time reassuring aLOT of people who were concerned about losing their hellscreamer cannons on the back of the ASAW survey.
The rules team were feeding us the line that it will not be a cannon or mortar as such but would remain a monster profile with a ranged attack of some description. I spent a long time reasuuring people of that and now I feel like a tool for feeding the WDG community a lie.

The survey was interpreted as "warriors must not have any long range heavy shooting" because that was deamed to be an army weakness.

Turns out, alot of people who downvoted it in the survey, thought it mean't that the army should be weak against heavy shooting, or that having a single stonethrower entry in a premium ctaegory was already a weakness.

Either way, it caused a bit of a backlash and the management have decided to fight fire with a bigger fire until everyone is content or ash.

 Davidian wrote:

jouso wrote:

 Davidian wrote:
My point being that one of the founding principles of T9A was to not invalidate peoples models for any reason....

Well, it is not invalidated as such. It just shoots something else.

A couple games into 2.0 and I'm loving the new magic system. Still too soon on everything else.

XD as an (ex)member of the community engagement team, I spent a great deal of time reassuring aLOT of people who were concerned about losing their hellscreamer cannons on the back of the ASAW survey.
The rules team were feeding us the line that it will not be a cannon or mortar as such but would remain a monster profile with a ranged attack of some description. I spent a long time reasuuring people of that and now I feel like a tool for feeding the WDG community a lie.

Such are the ways of design by committee. The model is still very much usable though which was my entire point.

I don't play WDG so I can't comment on the pros and cons of having an infernal contraption shooting HE rounds or portals.

I am not entirely surprised that TPTB at T9A would ban dissenting opinions.

T9A is a very good textbook example of a group of people trying very hard to be the daddy of what they consider an opportunity to run the next "GW Killer" riding on the coattails of existing material that set the standard for decades.

If I had to choose I'd definitely take kings of war over anything T9A puts out simply because Alessio and company are good at what they do and don't come off as gakkers trying to lord a power complex over everyone.

This is why creating a successful game is a lot harder than people think. T9A is a great example of a bunch of tournament guys focused on hyper tournament play and driving their whatever-it-is into the ground.

The whole ASAW as a concept could have worked, but the outcome is flawed. Firstly t hose polls had only between 200 and 300 votes per army. Secondly the strengths are randomly applied and weaknesses are fully applied. The first army of version 2.0 the armybook Warriors of the Dark Gods is a flop. They increased the Gods to 7, but they managed to make the book bland and boring. It's more the Warriors of the Bland Gods.

The game has im ozero growth potential. There is no hype.

They are so obsessed with balance that it kills the game.

It's a shame.

 auticus wrote:


If I had to choose I'd definitely take kings of war over anything T9A puts out simply because Alessio and company are good at what they do and don't come off as gakkers trying to lord a power complex over everyone.

KoW is what it is because Alessio designed it that way, T9A is the sum of a lot of contributions from many people, at times pulling in opposite directions. KoW has a certain vision, and T9A has a different one.

On a practical level (for me, as a player) I don't care much about whether that vision came out of one single person or a committee. I can appreciate that KoW is more focused, but the focus is on the wrong place for me.

Design by committee rarely works in my experience. All design by committee has ever done in any projects I've been a part of is breed a lot of contempt and an end product that doesn't know what it wants to be.

Baron Klatz wrote:

 and I got banned from the forums

Congratulations!

But yeah, all that's stuff par for the course with them. Especially the very rude mods. ("9th never promised you whiners anything about sustaining 8th edition collections" such bull. XD )

Fully agreed on Conquest, that game looks amazing!

Not much info on it. I can't even seem to find a site for it. :/
I did find their facebook though, and the concept art and models do look pretty damn good.
It actually looks a bit like Dark Souls, in some cases. I don't suppose they have a big greatsword wielding guy in wolf armor ?

 auticus wrote:
Design by committee rarely works in my experience. All design by committee has ever done in any projects I've been a part of is breed a lot of contempt and an end product that doesn't know what it wants to be.

OTOH T9A works. For many people. Tournaments keep popping up, the homebrew section has been massively boosted now that they will be published in the magazine (first one is the barbarian army).

I understand the US is its own beast but it is the game of choice over here, much bigger than any other fantasy wargame (rank and file or AoS). Some people drop for whatever reason but others come in. Overall and going by tournament frequency and attendance, games at the club and social media activity (meaning whatsapp goups nowadays) the game looks good enough. Plenty of hype going for 2.0.

jouso wrote:

 auticus wrote:
Design by committee rarely works in my experience. All design by committee has ever done in any projects I've been a part of is breed a lot of contempt and an end product that doesn't know what it wants to be.

OTOH T9A works. For many people. Tournaments keep popping up, the homebrew section has been massively boosted now that they will be published in the magazine (first one is the barbarian army).

I understand the US is its own beast but it is the game of choice over here, much bigger than any other fantasy wargame (rank and file or AoS). Some people drop for whatever reason but others come in. Overall and going by tournament frequency and attendance, games at the club and social media activity (meaning whatsapp goups nowadays) the game looks good enough. Plenty of hype going for 2.0.

Really, when browsing through the "official" 9TA forum I see a lot of negativity about asaw and how it seems to kill flavour. It seems to me that i.e HBE players are already in fear when their armybook will get the 2.0 treatment like WDG. T9A will be sustained by small group of die hards, but its heyday already passed.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Baron Klatz wrote:

 and I got banned from the forums

Congratulations!

But yeah, all that's stuff par for the course with them. Especially the very rude mods. ("9th never promised you whiners anything about sustaining 8th edition collections" such bull. XD )

Fully agreed on Conquest, that game looks amazing!

Not much info on it. I can't even seem to find a site for it. :/
I did find their facebook though, and the concept art and models do look pretty damn good.
It actually looks a bit like Dark Souls, in some cases. I don't suppose they have a big greatsword wielding guy in wolf armor ?

The website isn't live yet but it will be ; www.para-bellum.com
The facebook is their main preview tool atm but I have colated all the releases, demo videos (on page 2 from BoW) and some more leaked info I've taken directly from PB staff in this thread here: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/740261.page

 Davidian wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Baron Klatz wrote:

 and I got banned from the forums

Congratulations!

But yeah, all that's stuff par for the course with them. Especially the very rude mods. ("9th never promised you whiners anything about sustaining 8th edition collections" such bull. XD )

Fully agreed on Conquest, that game looks amazing!

Not much info on it. I can't even seem to find a site for it. :/
I did find their facebook though, and the concept art and models do look pretty damn good.
It actually looks a bit like Dark Souls, in some cases. I don't suppose they have a big greatsword wielding guy in wolf armor ?

The website isn't live yet but it will be ; www.para-bellum.com
The facebook is their main preview tool atm but I have colated all the releases, demo videos (on page 2 from BoW) and some more leaked info I've taken directly from PB staff in this thread here: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/740261.page

Cheers, will have a gander. Nice to see a new wargaming company pop up, with high quality stuff too.

Yeah that looks neat I'll be following it.

And the starter set is only going to 80 euros with 80 models in it (including the thresher abomination)... follow indeed

Yeah, but its the starter set though. Doesn't that mean it will have 40 models from each faction? If you are only starting with one faction, I don't see how that's a good deal.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, but its the starter set though. Doesn't that mean it will have 40 models from each faction? If you are only starting with one faction, I don't see how that's a good deal.

All this, plus rules, plastic objective markers, trays included for €80... A bad deal? Okay



Ofc, if you only want one faction, a 2 player set isn't a great idea for any game. This is just an example of the price point it's shooting for. Nothing else.

 Davidian wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, but its the starter set though. Doesn't that mean it will have 40 models from each faction? If you are only starting with one faction, I don't see how that's a good deal.

All this, plus rules, plastic objective markers, trays included for €80... A bad deal? Okay

Fair enough. I generally pay attention to only models, but I see your point.

Tonhel wrote:

jouso wrote:

 auticus wrote:
Design by committee rarely works in my experience. All design by committee has ever done in any projects I've been a part of is breed a lot of contempt and an end product that doesn't know what it wants to be.

OTOH T9A works. For many people. Tournaments keep popping up, the homebrew section has been massively boosted now that they will be published in the magazine (first one is the barbarian army).

I understand the US is its own beast but it is the game of choice over here, much bigger than any other fantasy wargame (rank and file or AoS). Some people drop for whatever reason but others come in. Overall and going by tournament frequency and attendance, games at the club and social media activity (meaning whatsapp goups nowadays) the game looks good enough. Plenty of hype going for 2.0.

Really, when browsing through the "official" 9TA forum I see a lot of negativity about asaw and how it seems to kill flavour. It seems to me that i.e HBE players are already in fear when their armybook will get the 2.0 treatment like WDG. T9A will be sustained by small group of die hards, but its heyday already passed.

Why the quotes on official? It's where development takes place so it's as official as it gets. Of course people moan in the forums, it's what people do ever since internet forums existed.

People want to have the nice toys and grumble when other armies get it.

T9A works, for those people who like it or better said, for those who want to play Warhammer at the ETC
I don't see a big community outside this bubble for the game, especially with the constant changes of the core rules

Now the game enters a big public Beta Test for 2.0, it takes a year until the core rules are "fixed" and than the army re-design starts (and after this is done the core rules are going to change again according to the "official" plan)

And while on the official forum everyone tells you that you don't need to play the beta rules and 1.3 is the official version of the game, all big tournaments/events around are going to use 2.0

So what reason to play this community version of the game over any other version that is around (Fluffhammer, WarhammerCE, Warhammer Armies etc) if you are not interested in tournaments or want to go to the ETC because for playing an older version of the game one can stay with 7th or 8th edition of warhammer too.

 kodos wrote:


So what reason to play this community version of the game over any other version that is around (Fluffhammer, WarhammerCE, Warhammer Armies etc) if you are not interested in tournaments or want to go to the ETC because for playing an older version of the game one can stay with 7th or 8th edition of warhammer too.

Because those competitive gamers play non-competitive gamers. On our club only maybe 5 people go to tournaments outside of our monthly beer-and-chips "tournaments", but the other 20-something people also play with them. And run campaigns, and so on.

I could point you to other groups near us who haven't been near a tournament since 7th edition but still play T9A because presumably they like it. There's a whole homebrew section on the website where people post their campaign rules, homebrew armies, a skirmish game in the Mordheim mould, special character development systems, etc.

But of course the Internet has decided T9A is exclusively for ETC-ultracompetitive player-fans, so there's that.