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But keep in mind that a Crawler is much more durable than a Ballistarii.

I had some time to test some lists and some detachments last weeks. And i m once more changing my orientation.

I have now decided that if no change is to be done to guard then a detachemnt big or small is a must take unf inside our lists.
YOu will not have enough cp ever to play all units. IF you are making a list that includes stygies infiltration maybe a knight /robots and priests then the cp flow extremely high. Not to mention other armeis that would spend like 10 cp in one round to really make the difference. And they will

Tried the Castelan and for me it didnt do what i really wanted.
I dont know why so much exitment maybe becuase others dont play ad mech but honestly the same efford i spend to protect my robots same i need to protect that castelan. And i usually wont take more than 4 robots. Since as its obvious a Castelan kill removes 600+ points from your army and i consider 440 4x robots enough to loose and not start to get nervous.

Every game i lost the castelan early i lost the game. Its v v hard to keep him alive. And even if it is a real fire magnet its not enough of a beast to be kept alive. Maybe if you play it like the ATc list full of Guard or even better Brigade of guard and castelan. Thats the best i consider atm for a castelan.

Seen a list running around with 15 Ironstrider +++ dragoons balistarii and i consider it more valid and better result that a castelan tbh. Though i wont make such a list for various reasons i had to say i like it better than a castelan.

Gallant seems to be really hot atm. ITs cheap its bad ass and it can become a beast in melee or it can team up with another gallant. So id cosnider adding 2x Gallant for that point invest any day vs a Castelan.

Robots and Cawl is a road ad mech most likely needs to keep in mind. And since there will always be need to screen and Cawl needs to buff actual units i dont like to consider helverins a an option unless we are detachment restricted and i need to take a super heavy for the cp. IF not then the helverins do not add so much more than a icarus Onager ofc point wise and Cawl buff wise. I know they got differences but with Cawl onagers mix nice.

Loved the Drill. Really i love it. DO NOT DEEP STRIKE IT with priests. I dont know about vanguard maybe it could be a valid deep strike option especially if you got 2x5x2 plasma in maybe deep strike would fit more but for melee priests infiltration is the way to go. Various reasons but trust me Infiltration is meant to be for drill with priests.

Dragoons need to be decided each game if you gonna infiltrate them or not. Against an assault army you need to consider keeping them in your lines as Screen and use the cp to interrupt enemy melee order. Those 2 cp are better invested
against heavy assault armies.Especially if you got a Dragoon heavy list.

What is becoming really interesting for me is the option of mixing dogmas.

And since i m heading towards Ad mech armies my concept again heads towards.

Competitive play.

Guard with one pshych and cp recycling. 3x mortar teams can be used all these are extremely efficient especially the ability to recycle cp and deny one enemy pshych.

Graia Skitarii. Drills and plasma definetly preist with drill.
Dragoons and Gallant-sss. As well as Onagers Icarus or not.

Brigades again Valid. Either it ould be a Guard one or a Mix Dogma Ad mech.
Could really consider a mix dogma brigade really. its my next big mix testing .Dunno but seem so valid atm. Even if its fun games to play solo ad mech but those brigades could deliveer if you consider mixing Dogmas. It just bypass the stupidity of our codex. Big cp pool and all options inside one detachment less tax. Now we got some options seems like real fun.

So Castelan not working for me id prefer Ad mech for now at least. 3 knights in a super heavy detachment maybe for a 1750 even so wont be a Castelan.

Honestly I'm just so happy that the Drill has opened up so many potential ideas so that we aren't stuck with Cawlbots and Lucius/Stygies. Graia Vanguard in a Drill is pretty dope.

 Yoda79 wrote:


So Castelan not working for me id prefer Ad mech for now at least. 3 knights in a super heavy detachment maybe for a 1750 even so wont be a Castelan.

Bad dice are bad dice, but if you take house Raven you should be able to get the Castellan to a 3++ while re-rolling 1s. That does cost 3 command points to get to 3++ and if you're playing dark eldar your stratagem might get cancelled out, but that sounds pretty survivable to me.

Its not what i wanted to find to suplement Ad mech. It dies easily from melee and if i need to make the same efford to protect him as i would from any other arty gun line id preffer the Cawl star Nothing wrong on Castelan ut i dont beleive i need him so badly when i already got Robots. Was more existed from the Drill eventually and being able to field even more Ad mech. While the Gallant seems to be a real Option for us. Cheap durable Assault

 lash92 wrote:
But keep in mind that a Crawler is much more durable than a Ballistarii.

Depends on what is shooting it. Knights actually struggle to deal good damage against it, and you can make Castellan Plasma overload with your -1 or -2 to hit. But generally speaking, yes, due to the invulnerable save.

 Yoda79 wrote:
Tried the Castelan and for me it didnt do what i really wanted.
I dont know why so much exitment maybe becuase others dont play ad mech but honestly the same efford i spend to protect my robots same i need to protect that castelan. And i usually wont take more than 4 robots. Since as its obvious a Castelan kill removes 600+ points from your army and i consider 440 4x robots enough to loose and not start to get nervous.

Every game i lost the castelan early i lost the game. Its v v hard to keep him alive. And even if it is a real fire magnet its not enough of a beast to be kept alive. Maybe if you play it like the ATc list full of Guard or even better Brigade of guard and castelan. Thats the best i consider atm for a castelan.

Seen a list running around with 15 Ironstrider +++ dragoons balistarii and i consider it more valid and better result that a castelan tbh. Though i wont make such a list for various reasons i had to say i like it better than a castelan.

This is exactly what I was talking about. People shouldn't assume that Knights make armies win. It's the other way around. Knights need to be de-risked! This means taking things that can quickly remove threats to the Knight as well as handle the things with really high opportunity cost for the Knight to shoot, especially minus to hit enemies. This is why pairing a Knight with alpha striking melee and a ton of Hellhounds or flamer hits is so common. That or you take a Taranis Gallant with Ion Bulwark and Sacred Ion for suicide charging.

Ironic. I remember people saying Dragoons were going away because of Castellan. If anything, they are more common than ever. It's actually Crawlers and Robots that are pressured by Knights..

Suzuteo wrote:
I was crunching some math, and I discovered something interesting. With the Doctrina, a Lascannon Ballistarius outdamages an Icarus Crawler against Hemlock and Wave Serpent, whereas Icarus is strictly better against Battlesuits and Dark Eldar vehicles without -1 to hit. Autocannons have a niche in bringing down Dark Eldar vehicles with the -1 to hit. Of course, the Ironstriders are good against non-flying units too.

Here are the points per damage:

vs. Hemlock
Icarus: 49.69911504
Auto Balli: 50.625
*WINNER* Las Balli: 43.97142857

vs. Wave Serpent
Icarus: 48.4137931
Auto Balli: 90
*WINNER* Las Balli: 38.475

vs. Tau Commander
*WINNER* Icarus: 22.82926829
Auto Balli: 33.75
Las Balli: 29.31428571

vs. Razorwing/Venom
Icarus: 28.7704918
*WINNER* Auto Balli: 25.3125
Las Balli: 36.64285714

vs. Ravager
*WINNER* Icarus: 23.01639344
Auto Balli: 25.3125
Las Balli: 36.64285714

And yeah, these numbers also sort of underscore why I am not a big fan of Autocannons, on both Ironstriders and Helverins. They are way too niche.

Interesting that even if the Icarus isn't always the best, it definitely seems to be the most consistent of the 3, usually it's not far from the winner and whenever it wins out it wins out big.

In my experience I love the onagers, if only because at least then I have something I can repair giving me a point to having all those techpriests around. They've consistently been MVP's and my opponents hate them. That said I'm not trying to beat a major tournament anytime soon but I feel they're a solid and dependable unit that never feels like a wasted slot.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Honestly I'm just so happy that the Drill has opened up so many potential ideas so that we aren't stuck with Cawlbots and Lucius/Stygies. Graia Vanguard in a Drill is pretty dope.

Sounds awful to me TBH. Fulgurites or forget it.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Honestly I'm just so happy that the Drill has opened up so many potential ideas so that we aren't stuck with Cawlbots and Lucius/Stygies. Graia Vanguard in a Drill is pretty dope.

Sounds awful to me TBH. Fulgurites or forget it.

Not sure how that sounds awful.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Honestly I'm just so happy that the Drill has opened up so many potential ideas so that we aren't stuck with Cawlbots and Lucius/Stygies. Graia Vanguard in a Drill is pretty dope.

Sounds awful to me TBH. Fulgurites or forget it.

Not sure how that sounds awful.

Same here. Drill is amazing all on its own, and it hides 12 of any fragile unit you want to pop out and blow things up at will. Vanguard with Plasma Caliver and Fulgurites both suffered from the same problem: they melted before getting close enough to make their points back. Both benefit immensely from this, our one and only transport.

Suzuteo wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Honestly I'm just so happy that the Drill has opened up so many potential ideas so that we aren't stuck with Cawlbots and Lucius/Stygies. Graia Vanguard in a Drill is pretty dope.

Sounds awful to me TBH. Fulgurites or forget it.

Not sure how that sounds awful.

Same here. Drill is amazing all on its own, and it hides 12 of any fragile unit you want to pop out and blow things up at will. Vanguard with Plasma Caliver and Fulgurites both suffered from the same problem: they melted before getting close enough to make their points back. Both benefit immensely from this, our one and only transport.

For it's points, the new transport is taking the spot of my Neutron Onagers. 1d3 melta shots on turn 2 does roughly the same average damage as the Onager (maybe less to account for the 3 damage minimum on the Onager), but the transport capability and extra melee option makes it a no brainer. It's one of our best options for having an assault unit that will survive to the next turn and be able to pull back, allowing more shooting. All of our other options before were too flimsy to do that. Short of getting something with a fly keyword, this transport is a must include. Which is nice.

Suzuteo wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Honestly I'm just so happy that the Drill has opened up so many potential ideas so that we aren't stuck with Cawlbots and Lucius/Stygies. Graia Vanguard in a Drill is pretty dope.

Sounds awful to me TBH. Fulgurites or forget it.

Not sure how that sounds awful.

Same here. Drill is amazing all on its own, and it hides 12 of any fragile unit you want to pop out and blow things up at will. Vanguard with Plasma Caliver and Fulgurites both suffered from the same problem: they melted before getting close enough to make their points back. Both benefit immensely from this, our one and only transport.

Pop out a whole 10 man squad of Plasma Vanguard and pop the bonus hitting Strategem. It makes for an excellent hit I promise ya guys and gals.

If you played Mixed FW in a detachment you can also think about making the drill and Vanguard Ryza for their Plasma Stratagem.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Suzuteo wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Honestly I'm just so happy that the Drill has opened up so many potential ideas so that we aren't stuck with Cawlbots and Lucius/Stygies. Graia Vanguard in a Drill is pretty dope.

Sounds awful to me TBH. Fulgurites or forget it.

Not sure how that sounds awful.

Same here. Drill is amazing all on its own, and it hides 12 of any fragile unit you want to pop out and blow things up at will. Vanguard with Plasma Caliver and Fulgurites both suffered from the same problem: they melted before getting close enough to make their points back. Both benefit immensely from this, our one and only transport.

Pop out a whole 10 man squad of Plasma Vanguard and pop the bonus hitting Strategem. It makes for an excellent hit I promise ya guys and gals.

There is a reason why we dont see any plasma drops anymore. Its really not that good and it is freaking expensive. What is a vanguard drop in a drill with plasmas about to kill and how is the drop not gonna get killed right away in the following turn?

I registered for a tournament in November and they comped what I think will happen either in September or November. No CP recycling on Stratagems/CPs used for detachments the bearer/warlord is not a part of. Finally I wont have to read about Grand Strategist/Kurlovs Aquila Astra MIlitarum detachments in this thread again. I hope. Fingers crossed.

What are you playing atm Iago?

I said drill is good with fulgurites only. Plasma vanguard suck ass. How is the drill different from just deepstriking them? They suck either way. If it was 10 dudes with plasma - sure,maybe. But now it's 3. Really not worth it to deepstrike them, and transporting them is even worse. The damn thing isn't open-topped so the guys will die after they shoot once.

Last time I tried using plasma vanguard was me deepstriking 2 squads, dominus and infiltrators, killing 3 noise marines and having only dominus survive for my next turn. It was glorious.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
I said drill is good with fulgurites only. Plasma vanguard suck ass. How is the drill different from just deepstriking them? They suck either way. If it was 10 dudes with plasma - sure,maybe. But now it's 3. Really not worth it to deepstrike them, and transporting them is even worse. The damn thing isn't open-topped so the guys will die after they shoot once.

Last time I tried using plasma vanguard was me deepstriking 2 squads, dominus and infiltrators, killing 3 noise marines and having only dominus survive for my next turn. It was glorious.

You are forgetting that the vanguard are standing next to a giant drill and, if they land the charge, give Toughness -1 in close combat. When you drop 3 transports, with 30 guys, and get to re-roll one dice on the charge...Chances are good you will get 2 or 3 charges off. A LOT of units will die to that, especially if they have to dump overwatch into Toughness 8 transports. The strategy is badass for everything involved.

Nope. Still seems very suboptimal.

 lash92 wrote:
What are you playing atm Iago?

Stygies Battalion with fulgurites and dragoons plus outrider custodes. Loving it :-)

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Nope. Still seems very suboptimal.

I kinda of agree. Which suprises me lol

There are plenty of things I can shoot with from across the table that does a similar if not much more efficient job as a 4 plasma caliver. To use a 130pt transport to move something that is already outlcassed closer to death seems pointless. The -1 toughness is irrelevant to the drill with its str 14 attacks so unless you're dropping ANOTHER drill with fulgurites or another type of melee unit that would benefit from the -1 toughness, again it seems pointless.

I mean we could easily just infiltrate the fulgurites without a drill, but there's still a risk they might not make it in to combat due to overwatch; You're pretty much assured the squad will make a 3" charge, it's the overwatch thats the killer. So infiltrating the drill and charging THAT in first avoids whatever the priests wanted to charge from firing back, with the added benefit of the drill actually being pretty good in combat.

infiltrators and ruststalkers would be ideal candidates for a drill-infiltrated delivery. if they were any good in combat. and didn't cost a fortune.

Dedicated melee does seem like they would be the perfect choice for delivery via armoured transport.

Octovol wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Nope. Still seems very suboptimal.

I kinda of agree. Which suprises me lol

There are plenty of things I can shoot with from across the table that does a similar if not much more efficient job as a 4 plasma caliver. To use a 130pt transport to move something that is already outlcassed closer to death seems pointless. The -1 toughness is irrelevant to the drill with its str 14 attacks so unless you're dropping ANOTHER drill with fulgurites or another type of melee unit that would benefit from the -1 toughness, again it seems pointless.

I mean we could easily just infiltrate the fulgurites without a drill, but there's still a risk they might not make it in to combat due to overwatch; You're pretty much assured the squad will make a 3" charge, it's the overwatch thats the killer. So infiltrating the drill and charging THAT in first avoids whatever the priests wanted to charge from firing back, with the added benefit of the drill actually being pretty good in combat.

infiltrators and ruststalkers would be ideal candidates for a drill-infiltrated delivery. if they were any good in combat. and didn't cost a fortune.

Dedicated melee does seem like they would be the perfect choice for delivery via armoured transport.

To each their own. I like the benefit of shooting on top of assault, and I've also got about 100 skitarii infantry models that I'm dying to use. Fulgarites are amazing in close combat, and if you've got the models or the cash to get them, go for it. To me, it's a difference of transport and infantry costing 210pts vs 290pts altogether (or more if you put all 12 fulgarites in there). I wouldn't even run plasma on vanguard, as their regular gun is pretty decent at shaving off vehicle wounds already.

Also, as to the deepstrike options: That implies taking Lucius, rather than Mars. I like the option of having my troops do mortal wounds to whatever is in range. Maybe I'm just jaded from fighting Harlequin/Eldar all the time, but against invul saves on everyone, the basic gun with no AP is just as useful as plasma of any kind, and more shots with mortal wounds are even better. Stationary Cawl bots tend to get ripped to shreds by Harlequins (and the new haywire guns they got in their codex just make it so much worse, since the bots count as vehicles).

Ravemastaj wrote:

Octovol wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Nope. Still seems very suboptimal.

I kinda of agree. Which suprises me lol

There are plenty of things I can shoot with from across the table that does a similar if not much more efficient job as a 4 plasma caliver. To use a 130pt transport to move something that is already outlcassed closer to death seems pointless. The -1 toughness is irrelevant to the drill with its str 14 attacks so unless you're dropping ANOTHER drill with fulgurites or another type of melee unit that would benefit from the -1 toughness, again it seems pointless.

I mean we could easily just infiltrate the fulgurites without a drill, but there's still a risk they might not make it in to combat due to overwatch; You're pretty much assured the squad will make a 3" charge, it's the overwatch thats the killer. So infiltrating the drill and charging THAT in first avoids whatever the priests wanted to charge from firing back, with the added benefit of the drill actually being pretty good in combat.

infiltrators and ruststalkers would be ideal candidates for a drill-infiltrated delivery. if they were any good in combat. and didn't cost a fortune.

Dedicated melee does seem like they would be the perfect choice for delivery via armoured transport.

To each their own. I like the benefit of shooting on top of assault, and I've also got about 100 skitarii infantry models that I'm dying to use. Fulgarites are amazing in close combat, and if you've got the models or the cash to get them, go for it. To me, it's a difference of transport and infantry costing 210pts vs 290pts altogether (or more if you put all 12 fulgarites in there). I wouldn't even run plasma on vanguard, as their regular gun is pretty decent at shaving off vehicle wounds already.

Also, as to the deepstrike options: That implies taking Lucius, rather than Mars. I like the option of having my troops do mortal wounds to whatever is in range. Maybe I'm just jaded from fighting Harlequin/Eldar all the time, but against invul saves on everyone, the basic gun with no AP is just as useful as plasma of any kind, and more shots with mortal wounds are even better. Stationary Cawl bots tend to get ripped to shreds by Harlequins (and the new haywire guns they got in their codex just make it so much worse, since the bots count as vehicles).

Oh I wish I had the money for the fulgurites lol. Single most expensive thing in the army, more than dragoons. I've been desperately trying to find a cheaper way to kitbash them with other GW parts but it usually still ends up more expensive unless you have the parts lying around.

I'd actually like to get more skitarii infantry, they're cheap and cheerful. Though i'm more looking at making some hoplites and maybe some peltasts. I could see dropping 10 peltasts out of a drill for sure. With their blaze shot you could even pop them out out of LoS and still get your shots off forcing your enemy to manoeuvre to shoot them. while the drill charges their face to pieces.

Octovol wrote:

Ravemastaj wrote:

Octovol wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Nope. Still seems very suboptimal.

I kinda of agree. Which suprises me lol

There are plenty of things I can shoot with from across the table that does a similar if not much more efficient job as a 4 plasma caliver. To use a 130pt transport to move something that is already outlcassed closer to death seems pointless. The -1 toughness is irrelevant to the drill with its str 14 attacks so unless you're dropping ANOTHER drill with fulgurites or another type of melee unit that would benefit from the -1 toughness, again it seems pointless.

I mean we could easily just infiltrate the fulgurites without a drill, but there's still a risk they might not make it in to combat due to overwatch; You're pretty much assured the squad will make a 3" charge, it's the overwatch thats the killer. So infiltrating the drill and charging THAT in first avoids whatever the priests wanted to charge from firing back, with the added benefit of the drill actually being pretty good in combat.

infiltrators and ruststalkers would be ideal candidates for a drill-infiltrated delivery. if they were any good in combat. and didn't cost a fortune.

Dedicated melee does seem like they would be the perfect choice for delivery via armoured transport.

To each their own. I like the benefit of shooting on top of assault, and I've also got about 100 skitarii infantry models that I'm dying to use. Fulgarites are amazing in close combat, and if you've got the models or the cash to get them, go for it. To me, it's a difference of transport and infantry costing 210pts vs 290pts altogether (or more if you put all 12 fulgarites in there). I wouldn't even run plasma on vanguard, as their regular gun is pretty decent at shaving off vehicle wounds already.

Also, as to the deepstrike options: That implies taking Lucius, rather than Mars. I like the option of having my troops do mortal wounds to whatever is in range. Maybe I'm just jaded from fighting Harlequin/Eldar all the time, but against invul saves on everyone, the basic gun with no AP is just as useful as plasma of any kind, and more shots with mortal wounds are even better. Stationary Cawl bots tend to get ripped to shreds by Harlequins (and the new haywire guns they got in their codex just make it so much worse, since the bots count as vehicles).

Oh I wish I had the money for the fulgurites lol. Single most expensive thing in the army, more than dragoons. I've been desperately trying to find a cheaper way to kitbash them with other GW parts but it usually still ends up more expensive unless you have the parts lying around.

I'd actually like to get more skitarii infantry, they're cheap and cheerful. Though i'm more looking at making some hoplites and maybe some peltasts. I could see dropping 10 peltasts out of a drill for sure. With their blaze shot you could even pop them out out of LoS and still get your shots off forcing your enemy to manoeuvre to shoot them. while the drill charges their face to pieces.

I didn't think of the Peltast strategy. Pop out of the transports on the other side and shoot without LoS? Brilliant. With 3 drills you could completely stop them from being targeted, even taking the drill charge into account. That's hilarious.

Just saying, plasma became less popular because:
1) Point costs increased; no more cheap plasma.
2) -1/-2 to hit is everywhere

Plasma Vanguard are good because the Caliver is Assault 2, meaning you can fire after advancing outside of 9"; you can also walk with 12" to get rid of the minus to hit penalty from most faction traits. Doctrina+Data-tether also cancels out the -1/-2 to hit penalty. Plus, the rest of your Vanguard's Radium Carbines are actually excellent against mid-toughness, multiwound enemies. Their biggest shortfall was exactly the same as Fulgurites: fragile, with low mobility. Drills fix both problems.

In short, they do surprisingly well against minus to hit targets like Eldar/DE, unlike Scions nowadays.

Spot on analysis of the Vanguard, I really like them!

Has someone thought about running a more Skitarii heavy list with the addition of the Drill?

Even if I'd consider spending points for plasma vang I'd seriously equip then with 1 plasma / 5 and advance them not transport them. Their really value is troop role. Move screen camp obj! Sure I could understand a cheap one plasma squad.

It changes drastically when you invest drill and 2*5*2 plasma vang. Sounds cheap it's not. 68 +68 + 134 plus two more slots most likely 2 more vang. Why? It negates the role and your trying to give them a role they cant fill.

The 134 points transport makes it for me an elite choise transport! And there I could agree there are some options peltasts priest both variations rusttalkers etc. For me that is.

I could easily take vanguard's lots of them in 1*5-6 man's with one plasma running all the map even a brigade of them. Sure but nothing to do with transport usage.


So the real question how to use a Gallant knight best of?? With my ad mech list or would you prefer something else ? Could use some in depth WT and heirlooms advice

 Yoda79 wrote:
Even if I'd consider spending points for plasma vang I'd seriously equip then with 1 plasma / 5 and advance them not transport them. Their really value is troop role. Move screen camp obj! Sure I could understand a cheap one plasma squad.

It changes drastically when you invest drill and 2*5*2 plasma vang. Sounds cheap it's not. 68 +68 + 134 plus two more slots most likely 2 more vang. Why? It negates the role and your trying to give them a role they cant fill.

The 134 points transport makes it for me an elite choise transport! And there I could agree there are some options peltasts priest both variations rusttalkers etc. For me that is.

I could easily take vanguard's lots of them in 1*5-6 man's with one plasma running all the map even a brigade of them. Sure but nothing to do with transport usage.


So the real question how to use a Gallant knight best of?? With my ad mech list or would you prefer something else ? Could use some in depth WT and heirlooms advice

Landstrider is really good. It’s become my go to trait on a Gallant. Has let me get turn 1 charges 2/3 of the games I’ve tried it. The other game I rolled lucky. I would say the paragon gauntlet whilst tempting isn’t necessary for a lot of match ups. It also makes the reaper sword redundant. You probably want to adhoc relic based on your match up using the stratagem. Lots of low AP mass damage then take the 2+ Save. Some big heavy hitters maybe take the 5++ in melee if you think AP-4 melee is a thing. Tailor to the game your about to play and best of luck sport

If you bring a Gallant in a Raven trio, I would bring it naked and give the second Questoris the Landstrider trait.

If you bring a Gallant alone, I would make it Taranis and give it Ion Bulwark and Armour of the Sainted Ion. 3++ for shooting, 2+ for fighting. 50% chance to zombify and fight again.

Never bring more than one Gallant. You are asking to get tarpitted; remember that you cannot charge over infantry.

I have a tournament coming up soon. Lots of nurgle/death guard, Tau, and Nids in my area.

I'm bouncing back and forth between a couple lists:

#1 Mars Battalion
Cawl, Enginseer (Monitor Malevolus)

2 Ranger squads, 5 man, 1 arquebus
2 Vanguard, 2 plasma each

Termite

4 Kastelans
1 Neutron Crawler

Taranis Knight Lance

Knight Preceptor, Ionic Bulwark
2 Helverins

List #2 Mars Battalion
Cawl, Enginseer (Monitor Malevolus)

3 Ranger squads, 1 has 2 arquebus
2 Vanguard 5 man 2 plasma each

Termite

4 Kastelans

Taranis Knight Lance

Crusader (Ionic Bulwark, Buff helm relic, RFBC)
2 Helverins


I know that this isn't going to win the ITC but its a local tourney, I'm not expecting to get first I'm just wanting to make sure I can hold my own.

My thoughts behind the first list in taking the preceptor is that it buffs the Helverines which are very good at putting wounds down and popping things like venoms. I want to make sure they do the job, and I feel like getting re rolls to hit on them is a good way to about it.

I'm just not sure if the Preceptor is worth it because of the reaper chainsword. I hardly use it currently because of invulernable saves being on basically everything I attack, but I am thinking there's going to be a lot imperial knights at this tourney, and some of the big tyranids don't have an invuln. Reaper chainsword is really good against those.

I'm also starting to reconsider the plasma vanguard because they haven't worked out quite as well as I'd like thus far. Seriously considering going with Hoplites instead, but doing this takes away from my ability to deal with a variety of threats.

IDK. What do you guys think? I've tried out list #1 three times and its worked once out of three games, but two of those were against Dark Eldar and we all know they are the most OP faction in the game right now.

 lash92 wrote:
Spot on analysis of the Vanguard, I really like them!

Has someone thought about running a more Skitarii heavy list with the addition of the Drill?

Sounds expensive. I mean... Green Tide works because you can Da Jump large numbers of infantry within 9" of the enemy. For us, we would have to bring Drills for every unit we want to deep strike in. And then there is the 50% PL rule that we have to account for. I suppose we can take a page from Orks and bring our own Kannons.

Maybe this? Thoughts?

You might be able to squeeze in 3x Caliver and EDT if you try... but it's tough. And risky, if you have to fight a lot of minus to hit targets; we're already pushing it with two. Also sucks that we can't take Fulgurites because we're Graia, not Stygies. Graia FNP is a lot better for Skitarii in this case. Also, you have the option of taking Emotionless Clarity as your WLT. Though the more I think about it, I wonder if you should always take Emotionless Clarity and charge in after the Drills. Haha.