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It also works, because of Orks are cheap and cheerful. Seeing your list: I like the idea but I think it wont work. The cost of Vanguard + transport seems just to big.
On an other note: Did anyone else notice that an increasing amout of Stygies players are taking Kastelan Robots? Even without Kataphron support...
I believe there is another Big FAQ at the end of September. There is also an errata with every codex release.
Also off-topic: I was looking at Drills on eBay, and I realized something: Skitarii are the 40k equivalent of Skaven. Armies employ a mix of expendable infantry and arcane technology; led by highly covetous and fractious priests; based in teeming, overpopulated cities that corrupt and consume everything around them...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/28 20:05:50
lash92 wrote: It also works, because of Orks are cheap and cheerful. Seeing your list: I like the idea but I think it wont work. The cost of Vanguard + transport seems just to big.
On an other note: Did anyone else notice that an increasing amout of Stygies players are taking Kastelan Robots? Even without Kataphron support...
I run my 4 robots as stygies, if i dont get first turn they are about the hardest target i have to try and take down and the biggest target. It all depends on whether you think you’re up against a lot of -1 or a lot of LoW you absolutely have to get rid of as fast as possible. If you’re not then 4 robots can still delete any squad up to 10 models with no support. Although 10 custodes would be a tall order for sure lol. It all depends what you’re up against.
We only take cawl with his re-rolls for them because in a tournament you have to prepare for the worst case scenario, which is someone bringing magnus, a castellan or mortarion. Thats when you need your 6 robot cawlstar with wrath of mars.
I was debating of adding 2 to my Stygies / Blood Angels list, because I´m in dire need of some thing with a good rate of fire against infantry.
So you think they are still worth it as Stygies? Also do you run them alone or with some Kataphrons for that sweet +1 to hit stratagem?
rvd1ofakind wrote: I said drill is good with fulgurites only. Plasma vanguard suck ass. How is the drill different from just deepstriking them? They suck either way. If it was 10 dudes with plasma - sure,maybe. But now it's 3. Really not worth it to deepstrike them, and transporting them is even worse. The damn thing isn't open-topped so the guys will die after they shoot once.
Last time I tried using plasma vanguard was me deepstriking 2 squads, dominus and infiltrators, killing 3 noise marines and having only dominus survive for my next turn. It was glorious.
Man, you must be the worst 40k player on earth to have an outcome like that, or better yet, you're a liar. RvD you continue to amaze me with your immediate dismissals of any ideas that are not your own.
I came to vouch for the potency and flexibility of Plasma Vanguard inside of a Drill, the 12" range of the Drill with a pile out+advancing gives the Vanguard a lot of movement and with PDI gives them a 2+ to hit (threw and EDT for good measure) and no need to fear blowing up. This movement plus shooting usually means my Vanguard survive to do a second round of shooting.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/29 03:10:26
Suzuteo wrote: They are a lot less powerful without Wrath of Mars. They just have so, so many shots...
Ofc they are better with Cawl + WrathofMars. I'm just trying to find of if they can still be viable without both, because of their huge number of shots.
rvd1ofakind wrote: I said drill is good with fulgurites only. Plasma vanguard suck ass. How is the drill different from just deepstriking them? They suck either way. If it was 10 dudes with plasma - sure,maybe. But now it's 3. Really not worth it to deepstrike them, and transporting them is even worse. The damn thing isn't open-topped so the guys will die after they shoot once.
Last time I tried using plasma vanguard was me deepstriking 2 squads, dominus and infiltrators, killing 3 noise marines and having only dominus survive for my next turn. It was glorious.
Man, you must be the worst 40k player on earth to have an outcome like that, or better yet, you're a liar. RvD you continue to amaze me with your immediate dismissals of any ideas that are not your own.
I came to vouch for the potency and flexibility of Plasma Vanguard inside of a Drill, the 12" range of the Drill with a pile out+advancing gives the Vanguard a lot of movement and with PDI gives them a 2+ to hit (threw and EDT for good measure) and no need to fear blowing up. This movement plus shooting usually means my Vanguard survive to do a second round of shooting.
That just seems like super poor rolling to me. On average, if you pop the shooting Strategem it's 7 dead Noise Marines. With just Dominus rerolls, it's almost 6 dead Noise Marines. That's not even a bad return...
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Suzuteo wrote: They are a lot less powerful without Wrath of Mars. They just have so, so many shots...
Ofc they are better with Cawl + WrathofMars. I'm just trying to find of if they can still be viable without both, because of their huge number of shots.
Going back to Mars vs. Stygies, I think each one is better at certain things.
A Stygies-centered army looks like this:
Spoiler:
Blood Angels Battalion Detachment - 568
HQ - 403 1x Captain w/ Jump Pack - Thunder Hammer, Stormshield, Warlord: Artisan of War, Relic: Angel's Wing, Death Visions of Sanguinius
1x Captain w/ Jump Pack - Thunder Hammer, Stormshield, Relic: Relic: Veritas Vitae, Death Visions of Sanguinius
1x Mephiston - Powers: Quickening, Unleash Rage, Wings of Sanguinius
Elite - 352 11x Fulgurite Electro-Priest - Electroleech Stave
11x Fulgurite Electro-Priest - Electroleech Stave
Fast Attack - 272 4x Sydonian Dragoon - Taser Lance
Total: 1941 points 18 CP (-4)
There are 59 loose points in this build, mostly because I am indecisive and can't figure out what to use it on. You can also cut 2 Fulgurites per unit if you want to avoid giving up The Reaper.
Wulfey thinks this style of list is stronger. In this meta, I think I would agree.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Here's that list with 3x9 Fulgurites in 3x Drills:
Spoiler:
Blood Angels Battalion Detachment - 504
HQ - 339 1x Captain w/ Jump Pack - Thunder Hammer, Stormshield, Warlord: Artisan of War, Relic: Angel's Wing, Death Visions of Sanguinius
1x Mephiston - Powers: Quickening, Unleash Rage, Wings of Sanguinius
1x Techmarine - Boltgun, Chainsword, Conversion Beamer, Relic: Veritas Vitae
Looks like a very strong style indeed.
I´m just a little bit biased in that I want my AdMech to be mostly a shooting army, while not having the static Cawlstar playstyle. I guess I could look into something like a more mobile Stygies build with Crawlers and a big unit of Lascannon Ironstriders.
Just had a look on the the new kill Team rules. Infiltrators and ruststalkers can be used. No one cares i know BUT they had a significant point drop compared to their current 40k situation (ruststalkers with claw is 15 and 16 for princeps, "infiltrators with flachette and taser the same). Question is: could they work in 40k if priced like that? Pure hypothetic.
I think the point values are no real indication for "normal 40k". Because for example a Sniper rifle is just 5pts and a plasma 3pts, which would be way to op.
One a side note: Do you play only with TTM rule Iago or do you also play Ars Bellica?
lash92 wrote: I think the point values are no real indication for "normal 40k". Because for example a Sniper rifle is just 5pts and a plasma 3pts, which would be way to op.
One a side note: Do you play only with TTM rule Iago or do you also play Ars Bellica?
Only ttm or itc. Dont get me started on AB -.-
Well Yeah weapon options differ very much but most model costs are pretty much on par.
Iago40k wrote: Just had a look on the the new kill Team rules. Infiltrators and ruststalkers can be used. No one cares i know BUT they had a significant point drop compared to their current 40k situation (ruststalkers with claw is 15 and 16 for princeps, "infiltrators with flachette and taser the same). Question is: could they work in 40k if priced like that? Pure hypothetic.
And vanguard and rangers are 9pts each in KT so you cant really compare the two.
I would consider taking ruststalkers at 15pts in 40k and the transonic blades would have to be free like they are in KT. The problem is that at the moment they are the same pts cost as an intercessor, which to us isnt worth it. But they’re faster, have an invulnerable save, same wounds, same str, 1 more attack, still better melee but no ranged. But their role is as a horde clearer, they have no penetration, but more attacks. But it’s not enough, an infiltrator does the same job but has range and can be deep striked. For 2pts more. Both are too expensive for their role.
In my eyes they are no different to taking a horde melee unit but with 2w instead of more bodies for 4 times the cost. They do nothing against anything of consequence, you would pile them in to a unit of cultists, hormagaunts etc.
Made a list mixed dogmas battlescribe still show it as invalid to mix dogmas but...
I m still not convinced it's smart to loose stygies -1 defence in order to take Cawl and 4 Robots ? I believe I'm gimping my own list for a wrath of Mars! Not sure yet.
I have a question for those of you infiltrating units at the start of the game. Do you always place your warlord before infiltrating to take advantage of +CP gain on a 5+ ?
What if you only have 1-2 units to infiltrate, is giving up the chance for a refund worth showing your hand in terms of deployment. Do you guys ever weigh that up at all?
I’m a still a bit of a noob but tying to learn. Deployment remains my Achilles heel.
rvd1ofakind wrote: I said drill is good with fulgurites only. Plasma vanguard suck ass. How is the drill different from just deepstriking them? They suck either way. If it was 10 dudes with plasma - sure,maybe. But now it's 3. Really not worth it to deepstrike them, and transporting them is even worse. The damn thing isn't open-topped so the guys will die after they shoot once.
Last time I tried using plasma vanguard was me deepstriking 2 squads, dominus and infiltrators, killing 3 noise marines and having only dominus survive for my next turn. It was glorious.
Man, you must be the worst 40k player on earth to have an outcome like that, or better yet, you're a liar. RvD you continue to amaze me with your immediate dismissals of any ideas that are not your own.
I came to vouch for the potency and flexibility of Plasma Vanguard inside of a Drill, the 12" range of the Drill with a pile out+advancing gives the Vanguard a lot of movement and with PDI gives them a 2+ to hit (threw and EDT for good measure) and no need to fear blowing up. This movement plus shooting usually means my Vanguard survive to do a second round of shooting.
I'll believe it when I see that topping GTs/Majors. If it will not come close to top 16 - it's bad. The time I tried it was in a friendly game. We called it after turn 2 because I lost everything in my "alphastrike" apart from dominus to just noise marines in 1 turn. And "this is just bad luck" means "this unit sucks".
"Bad luck" is what people say when they suck at the game and don't want to admit it. Ofc, there are edge cases where someone fails 16 2+ in a row but that's about it. What I did to those dudes was bellow average. And if a unit rolling "bellow average" does not do significant damage - it's a bad unit. You can't expect to roll 6s all tournament long. When playing practice games, I'll say "yeah, sure you made that 5'' charge" when my enemy snake-eyes, etc. because I want to prepare for the worst case scenario(within reason) and not bask in my luck. That's pointless. (obviously, I don't say all my enemy's shots hit and mine miss lol)
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/07/29 17:46:03
Ideasweasel wrote: I have a question for those of you infiltrating units at the start of the game. Do you always place your warlord before infiltrating to take advantage of +CP gain on a 5+ ?
What if you only have 1-2 units to infiltrate, is giving up the chance for a refund worth showing your hand in terms of deployment. Do you guys ever weigh that up at all?
I’m a still a bit of a noob but tying to learn. Deployment remains my Achilles heel.
Well since your Warlord is most likely just an Company Commander you are not really giving something up by placing him on the battlefield. So yes I do place him before hand to take advantage of the refund.
Yoda79 wrote: Made a list mixed dogmas battlescribe still show it as invalid to mix dogmas but...
I m still not convinced it's smart to loose stygies -1 defence in order to take Cawl and 4 Robots ? I believe I'm gimping my own list for a wrath of Mars! Not sure yet.
Cawl 240 points does not qualify only to buff 4 robots and I don't have more points even if I change to cheap gallant won't have points to get an onager more. So
1) Cawl buffing 4 Robots only for 240 points is one question
2) 680 points you can swap for more priest average 310 points and will produce mortals considering Robots need min 3cp and 2 CP / round I believe 1 CP INF and 3 CP double fight produce enough mortals o kill just about anything.
3) sure it's the issue of 36 range but you can also add more guns for the rest of 350++ points ?
And don't forget the -1 stygies for all your ad mech !!! For those points you can add 20 more priests and two more transports ...
I don't know if I could add more onager most likely 2 more for Cawl I would consider it more valid I guess. Somewhat having Cawl for 4 Robots don't seem that wow loosing the -2 on Dragoons etc!
I think its not worth to have Cawl for just buffing 4 bots. Imagine you go second and lose 2-3 Bots, than you have a 240 pts character basically doing nothing.
Maybe cut bots and Cawl and add some Icarus Crawler for AA and an extra drill with Priest (havent done the math but that should be about the same point level)
Also why are you running a Knight Errant? Its one of the weaker Knights imo.
lash92 wrote: I think its not worth to have Cawl for just buffing 4 bots. Imagine you go second and lose 2-3 Bots, than you have a 240 pts character basically doing nothing.
Maybe cut bots and Cawl and add some Icarus Crawler for AA and an extra drill with Priest (havent done the math but that should be about the same point level)
Also why are you running a Knight Errant? Its one of the weaker Knights imo.
4 is the exact number you should play most of the time. It's enough bots to make a denkt i ln everything. They can be hidden if you are playing on a 8th ed tabke. It is not too devastating to get them stuck in combat.
I never played a dakkablob with more than 4.
Suzuteo wrote:Taranis Errant with Ion Bulwark and the relic TC is actually pretty strong for the points.
I´m just not a fan of D6 weapons. Plus the melee weapon is of limited use. So I would either invest some more points to get a Crusader or save some points and get a Gallant for that sweet extra attack and WS.
Iago40k wrote:
lash92 wrote: I think its not worth to have Cawl for just buffing 4 bots. Imagine you go second and lose 2-3 Bots, than you have a 240 pts character basically doing nothing.
Maybe cut bots and Cawl and add some Icarus Crawler for AA and an extra drill with Priest (havent done the math but that should be about the same point level)
Also why are you running a Knight Errant? Its one of the weaker Knights imo.
4 is the exact number you should play most of the time. It's enough bots to make a denkt i ln everything. They can be hidden if you are playing on a 8th ed tabke. It is not too devastating to get them stuck in combat.
I never played a dakkablob with more than 4.
Sure, but I assume you got some other shooting which could benefit from Cawl, like Crawlers?
Suzuteo wrote:Taranis Errant with Ion Bulwark and the relic TC is actually pretty strong for the points.
I´m just not a fan of D6 weapons. Plus the melee weapon is of limited use. So I would either invest some more points to get a Crusader or save some points and get a Gallant for that sweet extra attack and WS.
Iago40k wrote:
lash92 wrote: I think its not worth to have Cawl for just buffing 4 bots. Imagine you go second and lose 2-3 Bots, than you have a 240 pts character basically doing nothing.
Maybe cut bots and Cawl and add some Icarus Crawler for AA and an extra drill with Priest (havent done the math but that should be about the same point level)
Also why are you running a Knight Errant? Its one of the weaker Knights imo.
4 is the exact number you should play most of the time. It's enough bots to make a denkt i ln everything. They can be hidden if you are playing on a 8th ed tabke. It is not too devastating to get them stuck in combat.
I never played a dakkablob with more than 4.
Sure, but I assume you got some other shooting which could benefit from Cawl, like Crawlers?
My issue with Cawl is that your main strategy, based on how many points you're spending to do it, is geared towards everything being next to Cawl for his aura. It's incredibly predictable and easy to counter with a few fly units. No-one plays Cawl for anything but that. So as soon as you see him you know what to do.
Taking robots out first turn when they're stygies is pretty darned tough. 2+/4++ T7 -1 to hit and 6W. But your opponent can still get lucky.
I'm not advocating that he should take the Cawlstar, just that if he takes Cawl he should take more units than just 4 Robots.
I am a Stygies guy myself
