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Ok i know this has been asked, but finding anything in this thread now is impossible and Googling for mathhammer hasnt helped me yet.

I’m going to be participating in throne of skulls team doubles at WW in October with my buddy whois taking a bunch of dark angels primaris intercessors and hellblasters. I’ll be taking 1000pts of pure admech to back this up.

So far i’ve gone for this:

+++ Skulls (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [50 PL, 994pts] +++

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Adeptus Mechanicus) [50 PL, 994pts] ++
Rules: Canticles of the Omnissiah, Dogma: Shroud Protocols (Stygies VIII)

+ Uncategorised +

Forge World: Stygies VIII
. Rules: Stygies VIII

+ HQ [6 PL, 94pts] +

Tech-Priest Enginseer [3 PL, 47pts]: Omnissian Axe, Servo-arm [12pts], The Omniscient Mask

Tech-Priest Enginseer [3 PL, 47pts]: Omnissian Axe, Servo-arm [12pts]
. Warlord: Monitor Malevolus

+ Troops [12 PL, 198pts] +

Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 92pts]: Omnispex [7pts]
. 2x Ranger (Transuranic Arquebus) [64pts]: 2x Transuranic arquebus [50pts]
. Ranger Alpha [7pts]: Galvanic rifle
. 2x Skitarii Ranger [14pts]

Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 53pts]
. Ranger (Arc Rifle) [11pts]: Arc rifle [4pts]
. Ranger (Plasma caliver) [21pts]: Plasma caliver [14pts]
. Ranger Alpha [7pts]: Galvanic rifle
. 2x Skitarii Ranger [14pts]

Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 53pts]
. Ranger (Arc Rifle) [11pts]: Arc rifle [4pts]
. Ranger (Plasma caliver) [21pts]: Plasma caliver [14pts]
. Ranger Alpha [7pts]: Galvanic rifle
. 2x Skitarii Ranger [14pts]

+ Fast Attack [18 PL, 432pts] +

Sydonian Dragoons [9 PL, 216pts]
. Sydonian Dragoon [3 PL, 72pts]: Phosphor Serpenta [4pts], Taser lance [9pts]
. Sydonian Dragoon [3 PL, 72pts]: Phosphor Serpenta [4pts], Taser lance [9pts]
. Sydonian Dragoon [3 PL, 72pts]: Phosphor Serpenta [4pts], Taser lance [9pts]

Sydonian Dragoons [9 PL, 216pts]
. Sydonian Dragoon [3 PL, 72pts]: Phosphor Serpenta [4pts], Taser lance [9pts]
. Sydonian Dragoon [3 PL, 72pts]: Phosphor Serpenta [4pts], Taser lance [9pts]
. Sydonian Dragoon [3 PL, 72pts]: Phosphor Serpenta [4pts], Taser lance [9pts]

+ Heavy Support [14 PL, 270pts] +

Onager Dunecrawler [7 PL, 135pts]: Broad Spectrum Data-tether, Cognis heavy stubber [5pts], Icarus Array [40pts]

Onager Dunecrawler [7 PL, 135pts]: Broad Spectrum Data-tether, Cognis heavy stubber [5pts], Icarus Array [40pts]

If you’ve never been to a throne of skulls event then you can read up on it here: https://warhammerworld.games-workshop.com/warhammer-40000-throne-of-skulls-doubles-2/ its important to realise that simply winning every match isnt necessarily enough to win the event, you also get points for people voting your team as their favourite game and as the best looking.

You may notice that i havent included any robots and that ive added serpentas to all my dragoons as well. This was on purpose essentially i added my 6 dragoons and 2 onagers and the points i had left werent enough for any kind of robots or the necessary support system. And i just dont physically have anything else i could fit in the last 120 or so points. There’s a rule of 2 in this tournament, 3 in total accross a team. So i couldnt add another onager, i dont have any priests or hoplites or infiltrators....i do have ruststalkers and well, as cool as they are i think i’ll probably benefit more from the special weapons. Hence the serpenta, arquebus, plasma and arc rifles.

Anyway, the ever looming threat of imperial knights is highly likely and my buddy is concerned that a neutron laser might be worth swapping in for one of the icarus arrays. Purely for hitting a grounded T8 target with lots of wounds. Is an icarus still more efficient against a knight than a neutron? I’m tempted to hedge my bets and take one of each and I have the points to do both.

As a guy who loves neutron onagers, they're just incredibly swingy and invulns are their Achilles heel. They have no way to get through that. A knight player with 3++/4++ will be very difficult to drop with them, since you get a random number of shots and only maybe half of the ones that hit and wound have a chance of getting through, which isn't much.

@Octovol
Got any Drills and Fulgurites?

I'm tempted to say let your friend handle Knights. You need to play to your strengths, not shore up weaknesses that another army can handle.

Suzuteo wrote:
@Octovol
Got any Drills and Fulgurites?

I'm tempted to say let your friend handle Knights. You need to play to your strengths, not shore up weaknesses that another army can handle.

No, no drills or priests. They’re on my wish list lol.

I considered this is an alternative:

+++ 1200 (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [62 PL, 999pts] +++

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Adeptus Mechanicus) [62 PL, 999pts] ++
Rules: Canticles of the Omnissiah, Dogma: Shroud Protocols (Stygies VIII)

+ Uncategorised +

Forge World: Stygies VIII
. Rules: Stygies VIII

+ HQ [6 PL, 94pts] +

Tech-Priest Enginseer [3 PL, 47pts]: Omnissian Axe, Servo-arm [12pts], The Omniscient Mask

Tech-Priest Enginseer [3 PL, 47pts]: Omnissian Axe, Servo-arm [12pts]
. Warlord: Monitor Malevolus

+ Troops [12 PL, 113pts] +

Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 35pts]: 4x Skitarii Ranger [28pts]
. Ranger Alpha [7pts]: Galvanic rifle

Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 39pts]
. Ranger (Arc Rifle) [11pts]: Arc rifle [4pts]
. Ranger Alpha [7pts]: Galvanic rifle
. 3x Skitarii Ranger [21pts]

Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 39pts]
. Ranger (Arc Rifle) [11pts]: Arc rifle [4pts]
. Ranger Alpha [7pts]: Galvanic rifle
. 3x Skitarii Ranger [21pts]

+ Fast Attack [20 PL, 462pts] +

Ironstrider Ballistarii [8 PL, 190pts]
. Ironstrider Ballistarius [4 PL, 95pts]: Twin Cognis Lascannon [45pts]
. Ironstrider Ballistarius [4 PL, 95pts]: Twin Cognis Lascannon [45pts]

Sydonian Dragoons [12 PL, 272pts]
. Sydonian Dragoon [3 PL, 68pts]: Taser lance [9pts]
. Sydonian Dragoon [3 PL, 68pts]: Taser lance [9pts]
. Sydonian Dragoon [3 PL, 68pts]: Taser lance [9pts]
. Sydonian Dragoon [3 PL, 68pts]: Taser lance [9pts]

+ Heavy Support [24 PL, 330pts] +

Kastelan Robots [24 PL, 330pts]
. Kastelan Robot [110pts]: Heavy Phosphor blaster [15pts]
. . Heavy phosphor blasters [30pts]: 2x Heavy Phosphor blaster [30pts]
. Kastelan Robot [110pts]: Heavy Phosphor blaster [15pts]
. . Heavy phosphor blasters [30pts]: 2x Heavy Phosphor blaster [30pts]
. Kastelan Robot [110pts]: Heavy Phosphor blaster [15pts]
. . Heavy phosphor blasters [30pts]: 2x Heavy Phosphor blaster [30pts]

My robots are converted quite nicely, so we might get some points there, assuming i can paint them any way half decent.

He does have some room for dropping some intercessors for say a predator or something. Thing is he’s mainly a dark eldar and tyranids player so doesnt have an extensive imperial collection.

My biggest worry about this alternative is that balistarii are considerably squishier than onagers. But the robots should make up for that.

So I wanna run a Drill with Vanguard to have some shooting backup for my priest. Would you run 2 small squads with 2 Plasma each or a big squad with 3 plasma in it to benefit from the +2 to hit stratagem.
Also weapons for the Drill: Just 2x Stormbolters or is anyone using the Volkite chargers?

Yesterday my LGS had a triples ETC team style tournament.

My team was myself, a guy playing a Nurgle daemon horde, and a guy playing a Kronos anti psyker gunline.

I was the defender 2/3 matches as my team mates lists served as direct counters to some of the lists our opponents were bringing and my list was more of a TAC list anyway. My main goal was to win if possible, deny my opponents a full victory in the 10 point local format.

Here was my list:

Mars Battalion
Enginseer Monitor Malevolus Warlord
Cawl

Rangers 5man
Rangers 5man 2x Arquebus
Vanguard 6 man 2x Plasma
Vanguard 6 man 2x Plasma

4 Kastelans

Termite Drill

Knight Lance, House Taranis

Knight Crusader RFBC, Endless Fury, Ironstorm
Arm Helverin
Arm Helverin

My first game would have been a victory against a Dark Eldar/Eldar player but we were playing The Relic out of the BRB, and he used a trick where he used his last three command point to break an archon out of combat, got a lucky roll on his advance, and picked up the Relic.

He had literally nothing left but a couple characters and 2 pain engines on the board, and I had 4 Kastelans, Cawl, my drill, an Armiger, and the majority of my infantry left. He had taken the Knight Crusader but it took him all game to do it. Ignoring mortal wounds on a 5+ with the stratagem is key against Eldar haywire weapons.

So he pulled a "victory" on clock running down. He knows he would have lost the Relic if the game had gone on another turn.

My second game was against a Knight Valiant, a couple of armigers, and a Guard CP battery.

Kastelans took care of the Valiant, it only got to fire once, but never got to use the flamer or the harpoon.

After two volleys of fire from the Kastelans it went down.

The game was mine from that point on, we were playing that EW mission from the CA book where you gain a point by sitting on objectives.

I tied him on game score at the end because of the timer, again I had most of my army and he had nothing besides a thunderfire cannon, some manticores with no missiles and guardsmen.

My opponent talked about slow playing me at the end, said my Knight was 2cm from getting linebreaker, and since he had first strike and I didn't, said that he beat me by one point.

He's that kind of guy.

It was a draw at the end of the day, again that would have been a victory if the game had gone another turn and my opponent again talked about slow playing me. (we only had 2 hour rounds with set up by the way).

My last game against Death Guard, I wasn't the defender so I chose the matchup. It was a list with 3 daemon princes, 3 bloat drones, 3 crawler tanks, 2 predators, and some infantry and spawn here and there.

He conceded on turn 4.

So yeah, Cawl's moving Castle still works. If Don Hooson had to fight to admech with Cawl bots he would have lost. I looked at his list and I would have done well against it.

Oh yeah, it helps that I went first in all 3 games for once. But that's just kind of the game now.

 lash92 wrote:
So I wanna run a Drill with Vanguard to have some shooting backup for my priest. Would you run 2 small squads with 2 Plasma each or a big squad with 3 plasma in it to benefit from the +2 to hit stratagem.
Also weapons for the Drill: Just 2x Stormbolters or is anyone using the Volkite chargers?

If I were bringing it to a tournament, I would do MSUs:
+More Calivers
+More flexible
+Less vulnerable to morale
+Won't give up points
-Less protection for Calivers
-You can only buff one with Doctrina per turn

I prefer Storm Bolters:
+Cheaper; most point efficient
+Option to Deep Strike

But if you only intend to infiltrate them, then you can also do Heavy Flamer, which is nice against minus to hit enemies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ultimentra wrote:
Here was my list:

Mars Battalion
Enginseer Monitor Malevolus Warlord
Cawl

Rangers 5man
Rangers 5man 2x Arquebus
Vanguard 6 man 2x Plasma
Vanguard 6 man 2x Plasma

4 Kastelans

Termite Drill

Knight Lance, House Taranis

Knight Crusader RFBC, Endless Fury, Ironstorm
Arm Helverin
Arm Helverin

I think you might have faired better if you swapped the Crusader out for a Gallant and brought a Guard CP battery. Infantry are extremely important for shooting lists. They screen, play the board, thin out hordes, etc.

 ultimentra wrote:


So yeah, Cawl's moving Castle still works. If Don Hooson had to fight to admech with Cawl bots he would have lost. I looked at his list and I would have done well against it.

Oh yeah, it helps that I went first in all 3 games for once. But that's just kind of the game now.

So you went 1-1-1 at a local tournament and you're confident you would have trounced the guy who won BAO? Makes sense.

bogalubov wrote:

 ultimentra wrote:


So yeah, Cawl's moving Castle still works. If Don Hooson had to fight to admech with Cawl bots he would have lost. I looked at his list and I would have done well against it.

Oh yeah, it helps that I went first in all 3 games for once. But that's just kind of the game now.

So you went 1-1-1 at a local tournament and you're confident you would have trounced the guy who won BAO? Makes sense.

Just a reminder, the best AdMech list at BAO was also a Cawlstar list. Except that one had a Guard Battalion and used a Knight Styrix. (The closest analog to a Styrix is an Errant.)

Also, I just realized that the Forgebane Warglaives had those fancy cogtooth shoulders that go with the Styrix ones.

Since I added a Knight Gallant to my list i've been mostly experimenting with MSU of naked rangers and vanguard as meatshields for eating smite from my knight and HQ's.

Is there any way I'm missing that I can take a single knight in my list and give it the benefit of warlord traits or relics? So far the closest I came up with is making it a freeblade in a super heavy aux detachment and giving it the Guardian trait so it can intervene in charges but I don't feel as though the burdens are worth the trouble.

Any luck or synergy running Helverins with admech as opposed to Ballistari? I've got two Warglaives in the mail to accompany my knight but wouldn't mind expanding my force to include helverins in the future instead of buying ballistari kits $$

Stratagems - exalted court, and heirlooms of the household.

2CP total sorts you out

 Ideasweasel wrote:
Stratagems - exalted court, and heirlooms of the household.

2CP total sorts you out

Awesome, thanks! After a quick look at the stratagems online that solution was pretty apparent. I'm still waiting for my codex to arrive in the mail

One last question, does my single knight still gain its household trait even if its in a super heavy aux detachment? I plan to run it as House Krast with the first knight (krast specific) warlord trait.

Facisminthe41m wrote:

 Ideasweasel wrote:
Stratagems - exalted court, and heirlooms of the household.

2CP total sorts you out

Awesome, thanks! After a quick look at the stratagems online that solution was pretty apparent. I'm still waiting for my codex to arrive in the mail

One last question, does my single knight still gain its household trait even if its in a super heavy aux detachment? I plan to run it as House Krast with the first knight (krast specific) warlord trait.

Sadly it does not. That’s the trade off for the SH aux detachment. You can use stratagems but you miss out on the house traits.

Well that's really why we considered super heavy detachments and Armiger's. +3 CP + 2* Armiger's + household.

And since I'm talking about it I consider styrix a heavy point pay

Since using a guard detachment makes it really pointless to be an aux knight detachment as well.

You need to decide are I fantry and CP pool and CP cycling important ??? If youwant that in your style you can't as said ( in the interview of the winner ) waste points . And you already waste points in plane infantry guard for cp ND CP cycling cause you need the more than death guard .

So you would be facing his list with more CP but his.10 man termies vs your guard . Squat ... He has durability all over and flamers while you don't. And im not complaining arm just trying to make a point here.

If you pay so many extra points for roles and holes you need to cover like a styrix knight costing 500 points and you ad on top an easy 200 guard meat then again you become that list that loose and easy Castelan ( point wise ) from lasgun and blaster shooing. More or less gimping your own lists.

And no Robots are not that tough nor onagers nor most things like plague crawlers or a super heavy armiger + knight list.

Not to mention Taranis fnp for knights healing etc and there the extra cp will benefit your knights one step more.

You can't waste so many points. Styrix is good I don't disagree but it's taking a toll in point plus ad mech is a taxed army on it's own! Same goes for extra troops with special guns and lists with two battalions! I'm not talking horde lists I'm talking about wasted lists.

Tips.

Providing enemy with hard choises. If you play with troops then you should consider taking some options.

Mortars for guard. Makes infantry squas as targets else they suck and in many games bypassed if not for first blood or assault armies. They die by accident and you should utilize the points. Especially if you consider there are elite options like termies or even our own infiltrators to give you a good example of obj camping units?

What would you do when you get hit from 35 shots and 10 melee att on 10 man infantry? Wasted points . A psycher some CP regiments etc can make the difference !!!! Use them that's the point!

And why the hell you won't use Armiger's??? +3 CP to begin with letting you spearhead Mars and cut the troops to minimum! Unless you play guard and one knight ven then I'd preffer super heavy detachment!!! .

Armigers are inefficient, but with the Knight Lance errata, I would say that they are worth it (+3 CP and the household tradition).

So I´m working on a list for a restricted local tournament next week (1750pts) and I´m looking for some advice:

Restrictions:


Most likely opponents:


Im planing on playing AdMech + Blood Angels batallion:
- TPD + TPE
- 3 x 5 Skitarii
- 2 x Icarus Crawler
- 2 x Robots

- Captain Slam
- Lemartes
- 2 x 5 Scouts
- 1 x 5 Intercessors (which I find quite nice for holding midfield objectives)
- 10 Death Company with 7x B&C and 3x Hammer

That would leave me with about 250 points to spend. Maybe some Lascanon Ironstrider? Or give some Plasma to Vanguard and take a Drill?

Two more Kastelans. Lol.

4 Stygies Robots seems a little bit excessive.

I'm more leaning towards Plasma in a drill or maybe some more Blood Angels, most likely Mephiston.

But overall I'm not really impressed by my list. But I don't really know how to do better with those stupid restrictions.

Plasma Calivers are strong, especially against targets without an invulnerable save. But they are not in the same ballpark as Fulgurites or Kastelans for competitive play.

Sure, but you also got 21 Rad Carbines shots against things with high invulns. Sure you will most likely only be wounding on a 6. But every wound going through will be 2 dmg.

How would you play under the above posted restrictions if I might ask?

I think given the limitations you have a good list. My main concern is that if you take a drill you have alot of firepower off the table on turn one most likely. Youll also run into potentially having more than half of your power level in reserve which violates a beta rule.

I would say maybe opt for another squad of Kastelans, depending on what you have for marines maybe a thunderfire cannon? It can help against horde lists with the stratagem.

I have calculated everything and it would be barely even with PL on and off the board.

I can't take another squad Kastelans because I would have to take a Spearhead instead of a Batallion and I really need those CP for my Blood Angels.
Also unfortunately no TFC for Blood Angels. I would love to have some free points for Mephiston.

I think I will test this list this weekend.

With those restrictions I would most likely play

Smash batalion +5cp for offnce with scouts etc....

Super heavy +3 knights two Armiger's warden knight.

Because the restrictions don't allow you to utilise proper Robots numbers and without Cawl is even worse!

Helverins and warden will provide more consistency.

If I can't do that and I'm forced to play two battalions then I'd go for .

Smash battalion scouts must and then an extreme mobile force !

Stygian I'd use infiltration and flamer + dual guns on Robots .

3 lasc balistarii since it's the max I can take and the rest of your list. It's always good in this sort of fights to remember even a 5 man priest group can be of use and each unit can be decided /game to infiltrate. So I'd imagine my playstyle with smash batallions and what could help me more. Snipers for char shooting?? You d need 2*90 points . Most likely wasted.

Some autocsnnon balist to support two icarus ? Or three Dragoons. If you invest in two full dakka Robots and two icarus and balistsry and dominus then I'd definitely add 5 staff pries as counter to my gun line ause they will surelly come for it.

If you invest in assault mobile force then flamers on Robots vanguard with one plasma each for troops Dragoons in a squad of three and infiltrate .

 ultimentra wrote:
Yesterday my LGS had a triples ETC team style tournament.

My team was myself, a guy playing a Nurgle daemon horde, and a guy playing a Kronos anti psyker gunline.

I was the defender 2/3 matches as my team mates lists served as direct counters to some of the lists our opponents were bringing and my list was more of a TAC list anyway. My main goal was to win if possible, deny my opponents a full victory in the 10 point local format.

Here was my list:

Mars Battalion
Enginseer Monitor Malevolus Warlord
Cawl

Rangers 5man
Rangers 5man 2x Arquebus
Vanguard 6 man 2x Plasma
Vanguard 6 man 2x Plasma

4 Kastelans

Termite Drill

Knight Lance, House Taranis

Knight Crusader RFBC, Endless Fury, Ironstorm
Arm Helverin
Arm Helverin

My first game would have been a victory against a Dark Eldar/Eldar player but we were playing The Relic out of the BRB, and he used a trick where he used his last three command point to break an archon out of combat, got a lucky roll on his advance, and picked up the Relic.

He had literally nothing left but a couple characters and 2 pain engines on the board, and I had 4 Kastelans, Cawl, my drill, an Armiger, and the majority of my infantry left. He had taken the Knight Crusader but it took him all game to do it. Ignoring mortal wounds on a 5+ with the stratagem is key against Eldar haywire weapons.

So he pulled a "victory" on clock running down. He knows he would have lost the Relic if the game had gone on another turn.

My second game was against a Knight Valiant, a couple of armigers, and a Guard CP battery.

Kastelans took care of the Valiant, it only got to fire once, but never got to use the flamer or the harpoon.

After two volleys of fire from the Kastelans it went down.

The game was mine from that point on, we were playing that EW mission from the CA book where you gain a point by sitting on objectives.

I tied him on game score at the end because of the timer, again I had most of my army and he had nothing besides a thunderfire cannon, some manticores with no missiles and guardsmen.

My opponent talked about slow playing me at the end, said my Knight was 2cm from getting linebreaker, and since he had first strike and I didn't, said that he beat me by one point.

He's that kind of guy.

It was a draw at the end of the day, again that would have been a victory if the game had gone another turn and my opponent again talked about slow playing me. (we only had 2 hour rounds with set up by the way).

My last game against Death Guard, I wasn't the defender so I chose the matchup. It was a list with 3 daemon princes, 3 bloat drones, 3 crawler tanks, 2 predators, and some infantry and spawn here and there.

He conceded on turn 4.

So yeah, Cawl's moving Castle still works. If Don Hooson had to fight to admech with Cawl bots he would have lost. I looked at his list and I would have done well against it.

Oh yeah, it helps that I went first in all 3 games for once. But that's just kind of the game now.

Hopefully one day we can get in a game. I have played against cawl and his robots. It is not that threatening. Best of luck to you in your future games.

4 Kastellans with Cawl costs 680 points and outputs 54 hits per turn, or 12.6 points per hit.
3 Kastellans with Nobody around to buff them costs....... 12.2 points per hit.
If you happen to have 'reroll hit rolls of 1' on, for instance on your first turn where you can 100% select it if you want, that goes down to merely 10.5 points per hit.

When I first joined AdMech, we did not have Knights which were efficient long ranged damaged platforms. Enemy has Magnus or Mortarion? Better have your robots with mortal wounds ready.

Now however, I find the Cawlstar to be
1. Sickeningly effective when in range
2. Totally gnarly and awesome at killing infantry
3. Often overkilling what infantry units it can see
5. Often out of range of some units first turn, or out of LOS in later turns
6. A significant drain of command points at 2 per turn to Wrath of Mars
7. Just 'pretty good' at killing Magnus and Mortarion while the Castellan is maybe even better? Don't quote me on that I haven't run the numbers yet.
8. A big stationary target that represents points not advancing, not taking objectives
9. A total disaster if somehow charged by your opponent, which could be turn 1 if they are Magnus, though this is in theory at least partially your fault for not screening harder against 42" flying charge range
10. A 4-out-of-4 'Gang Busters' target in ITC rules
11. Like all BS4+ units, significantly weakened by the Meta environment of 'all my guys are -1 to be hit', which reduces their effectiveness by 25% even with Cawl standing around
12. Not well suited to the current Meta environment of 'flying units'

Based on these reasons I have decided to test dropping the 680 point 54-hits-per-turn Cawlstar down to a 330 point 32-hits-per-turn Kastelan unit. It's only 60% as strong in shooting output, but in return you get 350 points of Free Real Estate.

This is in my admittedly somewhat-limited experience, and in the context of Cawlstar Vanguard Detachment + IG Screening Battalion + House Raven Knight Castellan.

EDIT typo

Meta is bipolar. Everyone has to have horde-like levels of infantry to play the board and a Knight. That or a way to deal with hordes and Knights. Furthermore, lists with generalized threats are key; silver bullet reactionary play and dominant strategies aside from hordes and Knights don't work.

Incidentally, the fact that everyone is specializing against these two threats allows a list like the one that won BAO to slip through. NOBODY knows how to play against deep striking Blightlord Terminators, and few people prepared any anti-elite shooting or fighting.

 lash92 wrote:
Sure, but you also got 21 Rad Carbines shots against things with high invulns. Sure you will most likely only be wounding on a 6. But every wound going through will be 2 dmg.

How would you play under the above posted restrictions if I might ask?

Blood Angels Battalion + Stygies Battalion. Bring Drills and Fulgurites. All-in assault.

@ Yoda:
Thanks for your feedback, really appreciated. Unfortunately one of the restrictions is only one LoW, so I think I'll stick with my Stygies gunline.


@ Suzuteo :
Wouldn't you run into problems regarding the power level deepstrike rules? Because both parts of your army want to infiltrate or deepstrike.

Blood Angels don't really deep strike, not since the beta rule anyway. You advance deploy the Scouts and you Forlorn Fury move your Slamguinius in. If you bring a second Smash Captain, you can deep strike him. There is also turn 1 Upon WIngs of FIre to move an already deployed unit.

By the way, their official FB page says already deployed units are unaffected by the beta rule.
https://www.facebook.com/1575682476085719/photos/a.1576243776029589.1073741828.1575682476085719/2013246645662631/?type=3&theater

Good point:

So maybe something like:

Stygies Batallion:
- 2 x TPE
- 3 x 5 Ranger
- 2 x 20 Priest
- 1 × 3 Dragoons

Blood Angels Batallion
- 2 x Smash Captain
- 3 x Scouts

Btw rules are that you can't infiltrate the drill with units embarked, so I went for the Priest without an transport.

I consider Cawl a big issue as well. And I was trying to make the numbers work better .

My first thinking was also to remove Cawl but it does not seemed the proper way.

A) Cawl defines the canticle dice and it's not so unimportant as yo believe it to be. If you play a vehicle list shroud is really good? Reroll 1s in fight and +1 str can combo with various issues like attacking priest and Dragoons.

B) Cawl also buff Icarus onagers bs 4+ and Robots bs4+. Might sound not important or the numbers don't seem impressive but Cawl is the key for consinstency in ad mech list.

I can't invest two icarus and three Robots in back 4+

C) your antihorde and anti air unit named Icarus onager is hardly effective passed turn one that you d pick reroll ones canticle. After that your playing 330 + 260 points minimum bs4+ not to mention most defnsive tact's being -1 to hit.

D) Cawl reroll all hits not only missed hits. Making ad mech one of the most effective anti -1 defnce and anti air best in game.

E,) we invest points for results else I would use only d6 guns. And there the result vary vastly.

If you do come across a high valued target and you play first and your 3 Robots fail to deliver I don't believe I gotta say more.

Sure you might think 3 Robots same as 4 Robots and Cawl but you forget a critical factor. With Cawl and 4 Robots wrath of Mars worth definitely 2 CP cause I personally use them to kill anything on the table! Mortal wounds you pay with CP and in order to worth it you need to take a big unit.

Said it many times it's the ad mech design flaw. For me. You need both split units and big units for buff in ad mech cdex and it's stupid with suck idiotic tax hq etc.

Under this I will say that I consider testing 4 robots dual guns and flamers. Should be enough to deliver the punch reduce the over kill defend vs hordish tar pits and air units or -1 hit units.

Same concept 4*6*2 48 shots cool enough and double flamer I'm I'm not mistaken so 2*4 flamer shots. Seems more balanced for. My less screener list.

And Cawl playing a little bit more aggreciive. If I wanted to spam onagers with Icarus on 4+ I would definitely try a lot more guard no point on onagers.

That's why we play Cawl star and there are more or less the real restrictions you must consider in you list building.

Mortal wounds need Mars and Mars got the best range cheap system to throw mortals 36 far.

Piest are good but less synergy less buff more expensive more imobile even with drill. ( I use 5 man as counter to my robots)

Now if you are lucky enough to get your Robots target one then you want get other units hit! That's the deal. If I have a well defended Cawl star then the threat range is half the table? And no range or no sight is also a good sign of good preparations.