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Infiltrators with Drill Vanguard and a Ranger gunline worked for me okay-ish. I don't like the melee options besides the Infiltrators and Dragoons.

Seems like gw don't want to have all armies all options.

Decent list with robots melee oriented lists flamers with no real invu in cc? The competitive game has tons to do with the player playing the game but requires at least balance out some point/usage in you list.

Go melee have your fun not with Robots. you can use infiltrators effectively. Dragoons taser weapons in general . Use drills and staff priests units that can actually be decent as assault force. And in mass can provide some results. Not as easy as a small captain setup but versarioe and with some nice options.

Ad mech stygies outrider with any short of Dragoons and or balistarii + priests and drills can provide a solid base to build upon! Infiltrators I use if I play solo Mars and I want a deep strike option. Blasters and wrath of Mars have some consistency
Infiltrating Dragoons or drilp even with plasma vanguard's got a point. Robots don't. Better take hoplites if you are up for it better screener ok cpper etc.

I’d love to try some hoplites, they seem like a good halfway house between the two priest flavours but for much less points. Just a shame they dont get a <forge world> keyword for infiltration. Could still do it with a drill though i guess.

Plus the models are much more appealing than either priest, for me at least.

That's the main thing keeping me from doing any of the Secutarii. I need my guys to act like Graia!

Hoplites are strong in pure AdMech lists. It lets you take Omniscient Mask without it being a total waste; brjng 11 Hoplites and an Enginseer in a Drill.

A friend of mine is struggling against nids. The nid player is using a swarm of two 30+ termagsunt broods with two squads of warriors acting as heavy shooting and LoSignoring arty, with some Thorpes' and that floating gas HQ thing.

He keeps getting caught due to lack of effective firepower, but I'd like your guys I put as my knowledge of admech is really limited. Some tips against the big guys (caries and tyrants etc) would be helpful as when they play bigger games those things will definitely show up.

He has a wide array of units, and runs pure admech for info.

 Dr. Mills wrote:
A friend of mine is struggling against nids. The nid player is using a swarm of two 30+ termagsunt broods with two squads of warriors acting as heavy shooting and LoSignoring arty, with some Thorpes' and that floating gas HQ thing.

He keeps getting caught due to lack of effective firepower, but I'd like your guys I put as my knowledge of admech is really limited. Some tips against the big guys (caries and tyrants etc) would be helpful as when they play bigger games those things will definitely show up.

He has a wide array of units, and runs pure admech for info.

Robots kill the termagaunts
Onager Dunecrawlers kill the big stuff
Knight Castellan of House Raven kills the big stuff dead dead dead DEAD.

Rangers with Arqs can hit the Warriors and then Vanguard have enough shots against the Gaunts.

 Dr. Mills wrote:
A friend of mine is struggling against nids. The nid player is using a swarm of two 30+ termagsunt broods with two squads of warriors acting as heavy shooting and LoSignoring arty, with some Thorpes' and that floating gas HQ thing.

He keeps getting caught due to lack of effective firepower, but I'd like your guys I put as my knowledge of admech is really limited. Some tips against the big guys (caries and tyrants etc) would be helpful as when they play bigger games those things will definitely show up.

He has a wide array of units, and runs pure admech for info.

A 10 man squad of simple radcarbines can make the gaunts disappear. With an omnispex, tyranids don't even get cover saves.

Top imperium tournament units in the summer (20+ people tournaments, top 3/53 placings). I marked admech units

Some feedback.

A) I have already started to play almost solo ad mech.
I m from my nature a competitive player so keep in mind I always put restrictions in my lists .

So rules when I test and make lists. I don't use dual detachments. Tragic to see three battalions it's not a strategy game it's sad . And for the same reason I have removed the guard recycle battery from my lists . I hated from day one of 8th so have guiliman then guard etc etc then Back then custodes in all competitive lists. It's boring and stupid for me.

But top it all was the guard CP cycle. Brigade and battalion 5+ changes was enough . I don't want to play custodes and spam 10 CP always. It turns the game badly strategically wise. And after the changes in Temple terrace weapons and cover its becoming a boring game not an serious one for me.

That said.

B) As I mentioned after the theoritical change and removing the CP cycling ad mech is facing once more a challenge.

I use lately 11 CP initial in a super heavy and battalion combo Mars knights making this almost a solo ad mech list I hope since the knights are mechanicus tbh.

11cp. So far no cycling CP. Seems doable for 1-2-3 rounds if all goes ok but won't have CP to pass second round for any reason.

Either it would be a fight phase interrupt a reroll charge ion shiled wrath of Mars etc the CP are really easy to waste. So the limitation once more made me reconsider the list building.


C) made some extensive testing around some areas. And I'd like to share some info. So e questions for you all to think and some feedback from various games. Testing separate parts of my lists example playing a 1000k game stygies detachment then another Mars 1500 etc done not mean when you form 2000k the conclusion will be there he same . I knew it was not the same but I hoped it would at least give me some info. Beyond playing some units you had not previously played it's better to focus in your lists close to the points you plan to play.

So before I bust your balls more here it is .

Knights

If it's not Castelan don't take a single knights. Super heavy it's good. 3+ CP is vital would need it to pass many tour restrictions and can deliver.

I'd suggest easily now 2 melee knights or even three any combination of knight and Armiger's its effective.

As for Armiger's helverins only. Unfortunately they are more consistent? I really tried to get warglaives in my mix but they do not deliver. They just won't.

As for the bigger knights. I prefer cheprs =better but stromspesr rocket pod is a must. Then whatever suits your needs.

Following my thinking here about Armiger's and knight you can easily abjust your lists to complete ad mech changing your super heavy with an outrider dual autocsnnon balistari and a bigger dragoon.

I'd say easily cheaper would be a

Outrider
Enginseer
2*1 autocsnnon
2*1 autocsnnon
4*1 Dragoons.

Basic format cheap can deliver and should be almost same effective with it's positives and negatives vs a super heavy detachment. Mainly the 3+ CP vs 1+ but consider this a valid assault mech option. Almost same philoshy as knight less durable but still good fro many reasons especially the -1 to hit vs 6+fnp on Taranis knights. For me at least .


The classic Cawl star . I tried 4 robots flamers o. Top guns in hands . It's not working cause mobility does not exist. Either way enemies will not charge them the full gun overwatch is bad enough don't need flamers ven dual ones if you got Cawl.
I started to use robots with less screen seems to be working better than pile in and engage robots in all games . Wanna charge my robots go ahead that's it. Try to kill really small units . Have your onager in interception range could help if played right . Not good to have more in there.

Our troops suck and give every game free points! 5 man trash not worth it and there lies the question.

I'm considering lowering more my CP to remove the troops. I almost lost a game cause those 3*5 man rangers die from a breeze. 3 kill points lossing obj etc etc every single game don't nothing seriously . 5 CP sure for battalion we need but it's sad. Or I'm seriously gonna make it a graia stock battalion and even that is an issue . One plasma sniper all wasted points . A freaking lasgun kills then all . I don't know you tell me.

Loved my Errant will try Paladin seems valid as well don't forget Strom spear . Helverins helverins helverins and try autocsnnon balistari as well seem valid.

Cawl star. fter the combination with helverins I seriously consider my two onagers becoming neutrons instead of Icarus. For some reason my onagers have become somewhat screeners moving obstacles tar pits and don't seem to have a big effect vs many of the targets I need to kill. Helverins can kill fliers one neutron can shoot flier and the other will Cawl can risk it. One good shot can make the difference . Still thinking about it and I could use some feedback as well.

2 Icarus two neutrons or 1-1. Tell me what you think.

Drill priests.

No drill no priests for me and most don't play forgeworlds units. Same for hoplites that I consider truly worthy units. They don't play unf. If your rules allow it then staff priests and drills and peltasts for obj. Superb. Use also stratagem for extra +1 save and attack. Love them. If not styies then no point.


I found infiltrators extremely effective when I play solo Mars lists.

My Mars knight list depends on giving many valid targets to my enemy and making it hard to choose. Dropped infiltrators used wrath of Mars killed enemy warlord charged eliminated obj campers. Best option to be able to move out or even screen where you need a deep strike good bad I don't know they work for me. 25 shots usually as Mars reroll ones on hit with dual canticles and wrath for result. And die ofc after wards . If you fail the charge could be a point sink but 110 points is an option you got no other out of stygies? Drill etc if you fgw.


Tip : bihnary override for Robots can be used in any phase. So vs dark eldar don't forget to use it on your movement phase and then on your attacking phase bla bla

Gl hf

Small amendment Yoda, not sure if you missed this

binharic override - this means you are unable to change your protocols again for the rest of the battle. So if you swap once your stuck I’m afraid.

Cheers for the rest of your feedback on your recent games

Regarding Dunecrawlers:
I'm a firm believer of Icarus, but I also don't have Hellverins for anti air.
I don't know your local meta, but in my most tough things have a pretty good invuln, so that Neutron is a huge waste for me. If I would be playing against lot of armour like Leman Russes or Razorbacks I would definitely use them.
If you use them mainly for screening maybe take Eradication Beamers? They would save you 70 points compared with 2x Neutron.

 lash92 wrote:
Regarding Dunecrawlers:
I'm a firm believer of Icarus, but I also don't have Hellverins for anti air.
I don't know your local meta, but in my most tough things have a pretty good invuln, so that Neutron is a huge waste for me. If I would be playing against lot of armour like Leman Russes or Razorbacks I would definitely use them.
If you use them mainly for screening maybe take Eradication Beamers? They would save you 70 points compared with 2x Neutron.

If Crawlers could fall back and still shoot, sure Beamers wouldn't be a bad idea. As is? No. They'll want to be close and then they'll get tied up in melee most likely.

Unrelated...but slayer fan, you catching their farewell tour?

Beep boop beep...adjusting thrash metal protocols

 Ideasweasel wrote:
Unrelated...but slayer fan, you catching their farewell tour?

Beep boop beep...adjusting thrash metal protocols

Already caught the Sac show! Behemoth was excellent as usual but Testament were not as fun as they should've been. Anthrax and Lamb of God rocked the venue as usual and no need to speak for the crowd for Slayer!

Haha, ace. Glad you had a good time. I’m catching them in November. Can’t wait.

Dragoons
I found that using just four is not good, my opponent can always shoot dead one or two before their charge, so i think that six is mandatory, as only 4 can reach CC.

I also noticed that two armigers are a good support for the Dragoons, as the opponent has to deal with them fast so more Dragoons are able to land in CC. In the end both armigers will be dead but they absorb a lot of fire and they cannot be ignored.

Then your opponts dice are loaded or you play only against doulble agc knights overwatch isnt that consistant ive cobsistently had no such problems with 4.

@Yoda79 either you build competatively in which case you select the best unit for the job or you don't in which case you build a non-competative army. Some competative armies can be mono most are not. Trying to build a mono competative army is a restriction that makes your army non competativw.
If your army would be stronger with a guard CP battery and 3 HWT take it. Then look at what admech can offer. Dragoons priests etc

U02dah4 wrote:
Then your opponts dice are loaded or you play only against doulble agc knights overwatch isnt that consistant ive cobsistently had no such problems with 4.

@Yoda79 either you build competatively in which case you select the best unit for the job or you don't in which case you build a non-competative army. Some competative armies can be mono most are not. Trying to build a mono competative army is a restriction that makes your army non competativw.
If your army would be stronger with a guard CP battery and 3 HWT take it. Then look at what admech can offer. Dragoons priests etc

What loaded dice you are using to avoid losing 1+ pre-overwatch?-) I don't see how you can T1 charge with them knights if he doesn't want to(can you even if they don't try to prevent? M10" doesnt' seem like fast enough you can do it realistically...Well maybe if you can advance and charge but even with 6" advance that leaves 8" charge and no way knight player is stupid enough to park you exactly 24.1" front of you) so even if you go first he should have minimum of 1 round(plus overwatch). Castellan alone will drop several from squad. Albeit other knights don't shoot that well but for example average of 7 S6 -2 D2 hits will drop 1. Charging there will result another ~4 wounds to next one. This from the relic gatling. Plus others.

What buffs for damage dragoons get? 4 of them in contact, 12 attacks, 12 hits in average, 6 wounds, 3 past saves, D6. Good but not even damaged knight. Average retaliate from naked knight almost 9 wounds.

I wouldn't dare to try such a charge with just 4. 1-2 going before I can even charge, one guy damaged to overwatch, then damage output for 4 guys is only 25% of a knight(while costing over 50% of a knight).

No way you just get 12 hits. I'm not at home atm so can't to the math, but for 1 CP you are hitting on 2's with exploding hits on a 4+. Maybe you even have the reroll 1's canticle.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just did the math it's 22 hits (without rerolling 1's)

 lash92 wrote:
No way you just get 12 hits. I'm not at home atm so can't to the math, but for 1 CP you are hitting on 2's with exploding hits on a 4+. Maybe you even have the reroll 1's canticle.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just did the math it's 22 hits (without rerolling 1's)

That's why I ASKED what buffs they get. I don't have ad mech codex yet so I dont' know their strategems.

But bit better. 11 wounds to a knight. Not even next bracket though. Then he will flee and shoot. And that's with 4 dragoons in combat and that's never going to happen if you start with 4 if knight player wants you to get with less. 1-2 rounds of shooting + overwatch=1 model is pretty much quaranteed to die.

If you are facing castellan you are looking at plasma killing 1 dragoon and volcano lance another. Third damaged by shoulder cannons. This without raven strategem. With that expect 1-2 more.

That's why if you want to use those to dent a knight take the 6. That's not going to work at all if knights go first though.

Well unless you have access to at least 4++ for them.

You could also pop the canticle which gives +1 Strength, so you would do 14.67 wounds.
There was also a discussion here a while ago, that you could try to surround the knight, since he can only fall back through infantry units.

Are we taking into consideration stygies clandestine infiltration with the dragoons. They have the potential to do considerable damage if they catch a knight in the open and get the teleport(1st turn required)

Talking about T1 charge winning the first turn is pointless, as nothing can guarantee you the first turn.
So I take 6 dragoons as I usually play against demons, knights, necrons, guard, tau and every one of these armies is able to hit hard in the shooting phase and even stygies dragoons will take some casualties.
Matehammer says that 4 dragoons deal 7 wounds to a standard knight vs 6 dragoons that deal 11 wound (with conqueror doctrina AND reroll 1 )

No way, 4 Dragoons with doctrina and without rerolls are 22 hits, which translate to 11 wounds. (14.67 if you got the +1's canticle)

Also im really happy if my opponent starts shooting at my -2 dragoons. That why other parts of my army don't get targeted.

Buffs
6 dragoons stygies strategem deploy at 9 move then charge 2" T1
Canticle +1S
Omniscient mask relic reroll 1's
Stratagem +2 to hit

6 dragoons
So reroll1's tripple hit in 4+ hit on 2+ =33hits s8 ap1 2D
So vs a knight 22W

anything less than a knight is dead

As to overwatch well AGC 2 hits 1W 0.84 sv 1.64D
Hvy flamer 0.77D
Stubber 0.08D
Thermal C 1.3D
Ironstorm 0.26D
So EXP 4.04W from a crusader level knight with ironstorm so yes most of the time one won't die on the charge

Sadly speaking competivly the answer to most of the problems above (anti flyer, how to take on knights) is answered by slam capts. They will take out most flyers by themselves. Vs knights no overwatch so charge 1st then add in for example priests. If interupted the capt dies but fights again when killed then the priests will mop up the remaining few wounds and get the 3++. If either whiff simply fight again (can do it from both codexs). As a pair they pump out a horrendous amount of damage. Competitivly its the best as admec can do imo.
The one thing most seem to miss is that admec do not have acess to anything with the fly keyword. In 8th it is vital. We have to ally in to get it.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/09/04/the-rumour-engine-4th-september-2018/

This has me hopeful for a cog blimp with lasers

It’s probably something primaries related but you never know. Anyone catch some of the nova streams last week? Anytime the chat mentioned Admech, Geoff incontrol ignored or skirted the questions completely...which I thought was a tad odd, he must of seen some of them as any stream I clicked on was filled with Admech comments.

Anyway last game he said there were things coming that he can’t talk about but he’s so excited to know are coming, that could be interpreted as any faction but....

I’m thinking that it’s possible there is a shiny Admech toy on the horizon

.....hopefully

I dont think anyi flyers so important mostly because since storm raven spam nerf's kicked in you don't see a lot and whats left can either be onagered or ignored.