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If the Drill doesn't get a point increase with CA I really might try to build a Skitarii heavy list.
Anyone tried something this way?

 lash92 wrote:
If the Drill doesn't get a point increase with CA I really might try to build a Skitarii heavy list.
Anyone tried something this way?

The drill is really good against knights if it can get off the charge, but a lack of invul save makes them very, very squishy to ranged fire. Kind of a one hit wonder, but a nice option if you fight that kind of meta.

The chance of pulling off a Deep Strike charge suck though. They were only good because Infiltration let them move and then one-inch punch. =\

You guys should all complain to FAQ about infiltration. Maybe they will drop the rule change; it's incredible that they essentially replaced an entire stratagem with a strictly worse version.

Ever thought maybe they did it because that stratagem was incredibly overpowered, especially for 1 command point and especially because you can do it more than once?

Suzuteo wrote:
The chance of pulling off a Deep Strike charge suck though. They were only good because Infiltration let them move and then one-inch punch. =\

You guys should all complain to FAQ about infiltration. Maybe they will drop the rule change; it's incredible that they essentially replaced an entire stratagem with a strictly worse version.

On the flip side no one can do that to us either, which means non stygies FW's have a snowball's chance in hell now. That's easy for me to say since I never ran stygies of course but on the other hand at least when I lose these days I get to actually move out of my deployment zone before I die. I never got that chance against the infiltrate armies if I lost first turn, especially since even if you siezed they just hid them out of the way, so there were no downsides to the plan. If they had to place infiltration units before knowing who was going first that would be one thing, but as it sat it was almost no risk, all reward. It really did need some sort of Nerf. I don't think they needed to be so heavy handed though, like I mentioned making it more of a gamble where you don't know who's going first until after they were placed would've at least put some risk into it.

Back before the infiltrate Nerf I pretty much felt like I had to run some guard to screen at all times if I wanted a chance. Nowadays they still don't hurt to bring but I don't feel like I'm going to auto lose turn 1 if I leave them behind. I feel like that's a net gain for admech in the long run.

Suzuteo wrote:
The chance of pulling off a Deep Strike charge suck though. They were only good because Infiltration let them move and then one-inch punch. =\

You guys should all complain to FAQ about infiltration. Maybe they will drop the rule change; it's incredible that they essentially replaced an entire stratagem with a strictly worse version.

True, that's why I'm really interested in Slayers Graia list.

Im not sure about graia its got its upsides with infantry hordes but a lot of units electro priests/vehicles/characters/multiwound models get nothing or very little out of it.the strategem is ace but situational to your opponents build. It feels like a good secondary detatchment to another primary army/forgeworld rather than the core itself.

I think Electro Priests benefit from it, because it's not a classic FnP.

 ultimentra wrote:
Ever thought maybe they did it because that stratagem was incredibly overpowered, especially for 1 command point and especially because you can do it more than once?

So raise the CP cost to 2. Or do 1/3. I'd pay it.


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https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/10/22/oct-22-clan-fokus-goffsgw-homepage-post-2/

Omnissiah's name... Green Tide is going to be insane.

At least we probably won't have to worry as much about Castellans?

 lash92 wrote:
I think Electro Priests benefit from it, because it's not a classic FnP.

Its a 6+ fnp on death rather than the normal 5+fnp where you have to save each W. Now you are not allowed to do both you have to choose which fnp to apply.

Vs D1 a 5+ is always better
vs D2 you survive 11% with a 5+ and 16% 6+ fairly close but graia will save one priest more for every 20 2 dam wounds not a meaningfull difference
Vs d3 you survive 4% with a 5+ vs 16% with the 6+ finaly a noticible difference
(Now if only get my opponent to fire all his 3+ Damage shots at my priests that would be awesome.)

No its not a FnP. A FnP is against the damage you take (like you said) while the Graia Dogma against the wound you lose.

 lash92 wrote:
No its not a FnP. A FnP is against the damage you take (like you said) while the Graia Dogma against the wound you lose.

Its still an FNP

ABILITIES WHICH IGNORE WOUNDS
Some units have abilities that allow them to ignore damage suffered, and it is possible for some units to gain more than
one such ability. These abilities have stacked in an unintended way, and as a result we have changed their interaction
such that if a model has more than one such ability you will now only be able to use one of them against each lost
wound

Roll a d6 whenever a model with this dogma is slain or flees. On a 6, that model refuses to yield and either the wound that slew it is ignored or does not flee.

Does it ignore a wound yes therefore it clearly fits into the above fnp category even if the trigger is different

And under a very strict RAW you dont even get a choice because the priest FNP triggers on the W not the death and technically its mandatory to FNP so by the time graia triggers its no longer useable.

No, because FNP would stop a wound. Graia happens when the wound is inflicted and the model dies. They then instead don't die.


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That's why the rule is like garbage on multi-wound models but fantastic for things with FNP or just 1 wound.

I am with Slayer-Fan123. Graia models do not trigger on wounds. They trigger on death and you roll one dice per attack (because all damage is applied at once).

So if a model deals 5 damage to a Skitarii, and he refuses to yield, you roll one dice and you ignore the other 4 damage.

 lash92 wrote:

Suzuteo wrote:
The chance of pulling off a Deep Strike charge suck though. They were only good because Infiltration let them move and then one-inch punch. =\

You guys should all complain to FAQ about infiltration. Maybe they will drop the rule change; it's incredible that they essentially replaced an entire stratagem with a strictly worse version.

True, that's why I'm really interested in Slayers Graia list.

Sorry I started a new job this week! I'll make time to post the list tomorrow or Wednesday, but rest assured you'll get it!

Very good, I was afraid you forgot it. Good start to your now work!

I would love it to be otherwise but I'm not convinced Graia stacks with Electro-Priests. The restriction limiting models to one FNP, Graia and the Electro-Priests datasheet all talk about ignoring wounds. I don't think it matters when each roll is triggered because they are both ignoring wounds which is restricted by the FAQ/Errata.

This should be a simple question does the rule ignore w if yes =fnp

However its clearly become a bit of a rules discussion so im opening it in the ymdc rather than having it clutter the tactica thread.

U02dah4 wrote:
This should be a simple question does the rule ignore w if yes =fnp

However its clearly become a bit of a rules discussion so im opening it in the ymdc rather than having it clutter the tactica thread.

Good call. Someone on the thread you made over there pointed out the rewording of the FW trait that happened in an FAQ I had forgotten about, so I'll be changing my stance on it.

Regardless, I'm very interested in seeing this Graia list from Slayer-Fan.

Ravemastaj wrote:

 lash92 wrote:
If the Drill doesn't get a point increase with CA I really might try to build a Skitarii heavy list.
Anyone tried something this way?

The drill is really good against knights if it can get off the charge, but a lack of invul save makes them very, very squishy to ranged fire. Kind of a one hit wonder, but a nice option if you fight that kind of meta.

With a decent board setup with good terrain blocking and a favourable deployment I would even consider the Drill using the Stygies pre-game 9" move. Then follow up with a 8" move, average advance roll of 3 or 4, that could get you 21" from your deployment zone turn 1. As long as you ended somewhere where you could avoid facing the full force of your opponents guns, you could be in a good position for turn 2.

Why? The Skitarii strategy is essentially to erupt out of the ground, dump your troops within 12", and have them shoot plasma into the enemy's face.

So which knights do you find guys find worthwhile allying to your AdMech (including FW)?

 lash92 wrote:
So which knights do you find guys find worthwhile allying to your AdMech (including FW)?

A Castellan will want to hang-back and shoot anyway, so its the obvious choice. It a few cases now, having a random nobody be Warlord with the "heals an extra wound on Imperial vehicles" trait, has been a nice little "value added" extra to keeping him in a higher bracket, or alive, a hair longer.

I've had good luck with House Raven backing up my Metallica. The Castellan is obvious, but ive got a pair of Warglaives backing it up and they've been surprisingly good. I'm not entirely sure why, they don't kill much, but I find they usually do a good job harassing flanks, stealing objectives, tying up units, and just being really annoying for the opponent to deal with. They're one of the units that are just hard enough to kill an opponent usually has to devote something decent to killing them, which they'd rather have shooting at the Castellan.

Other than that, I've found myself leaning toward knights that have really high firepower anti vehicle/monster weapons. Maybe it's just because I'm limited to skitarii, but I've found my admech can murder everything but heavy vehicles at range with little issue between a horde of vanguard and Icarus Onagers. The knights fill in the gap and the admech cover their weaknesses so it works pretty well. This is my 2000pt list I'm building toward in my local league to give you a rough idea of what I'm doing. It's not going to go undefeated at a major event but it does quite well in local pickup games and looks cool which is good enough for me.



I'm heavily debating dropping 2 vanguard models and putting phosphor blasters on the Dragoons. Yeah the Dragoons probably aren't shooting every turn but 4 heavy bolter shots a turn that ignore cover may be the better choice than two random rad carbine guys. Probably does more good toward the end of a game but I'm not really sure if Dragoons tend to live that long, not used them much yet. Like I said this isn't meant to be a tournament quality list, if I wanted to really curbstomp a local event the list would need lots of changes.

Sorry I have forgot to mention that I'm looking for knights other than the Castellan, because all of us know that he will get nerfed with the CA.

Nice list btw! Are the Skitarii barebones?

Yep, I found I just wanted more anti horde firepower with this setup. I ran vanguard squads with x2 plasma quite a bit in smaller games and they hit like a truck with Metallica (no one expects you to advance and reroll 1's with the whole army for some reason) but in larger games I'd rather put the pts in plasma towards the knights, Dragoons, etc. At about a 1000pts or less though, having a solid brick of plasma toting vanguard works surprisingly well as long as you have an Icarus Onager to deal with flyers and something that can deal with hard targets like neutron Onagers, Dragoons, or Warglaives.

Honestly I don't know if gw can Nerf the Castellan enough to make it useless with the Raven trait. That thing is just monstrous. I do worry they'll Nerf it to the point where Raven is the only house that can make it worthwhile, but they'd need to make it 700pts and order of companions cost something stupid like 4 cp to really make me second guess it.

The Raven Castellan really is the biggest argument for why certain traits should have different points costs for some units. The difference between a Raven Castellan and any other house is nuts. If they wanted to balance it fairly, I'd make it where it costs one price for every other house, and then have it's cost go up for specifically Raven. It's that, or you just keep cranking up the costs of a couple of the key strats it needs to the point where you can only realistically get off one companions volley a game.

@MM

I cannot upvote this enough. This is exactly my concern with how GW tends to nerf things in a reactionary manner.

I play Tanaris and am looking forward to finally running a Castalan soon. By the time I do and get one on the table top it may well be nerfed into the ground.

Let’s hope they balance it in a sensible way. A limit on the number of times OOC can be used could be a good shout. Limit it to once, maybe twice Maybe a price hike of 50 max. Something like that

I think AdMech best utilizes lone Knights to kill the things that Kastelan Robots struggle against. This usually means other Knights, minus to hit elites, and tanks. So...

Krast Styrix
Raven Castellan
Taranis Gallant
Raven Crusader

Styrix is a hidden gem for AdMech in my opinion. Knight vs. Knight matchups devolve into who has more Knights on the board and who can kill the other's Knights first. You can run Styrix as a lone Knight without any problem, since he has built-in defensive relics and WLT, so you can invest in Titan-killing power, and a mostly redundant Tradition. The Volkite deals comparable damage to the Volcano Cannon, but the Styrix much stronger at CC and anti-elite shooting.

The Stryx looks interesting, but I'll have to do the math on it. I suppose you give him Krast relic + WLT?
Also claw or sword?

I believe your best taking the claw.