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 Arlen wrote:

Iago40k wrote:


Cant watch it, could you or someone give the exact wording? Pretty please :-)

Sure

Servitor Maniple grants the Servitor Maniple keyword to all Tech-Priest Dominus, Engiseers, Kataphrons and Servitors in one detachment.

Get acces to the following WT and Relic.
WT Master of Bioslpicing, Sacrifice one servitor to regain D3 wounds on a Kataphron unit or if there are no wounded models, return one slain model.
The Genecog Corpus, Omnisiah Axe relic, deals D3 mortal wounds on a unmodified 6 to wound.

New strats.
Enhanced Bionics 1 CP
Pre-game stratagem, give a 5++ to an unit of Kataphrons from the formation detachment.
Noospheric Mindlock 1 CP
Add +1 to hit in the shooting phase for a single Kataphron unit within 6'' of a Dominus that is part of the formation.

Legend. Cheers mate.

Here is a little scenerio Ive just thought up, if you use the "Field Commander" Stratagem on Cawl in a Servitior Maniple, will he get the Master of Biosplicing instead of the Mars one?

And then have you actual warlord be whoever you want.

 Arlen wrote:
You do not have to be afraid that Cawl blocks you from using this formation. He even has the option to fill out the Dominus priest slot needed for the formation and its stratagems.

Ah ok thanks for clarifying

 deffrekka wrote:
Here is a little scenerio Ive just thought up, if you use the "Field Commander" Stratagem on Cawl in a Servitior Maniple, will he get the Master of Biosplicing instead of the Mars one?

And then have you actual warlord be whoever you want.

good question for FAQ

 axisofentropy wrote:

 deffrekka wrote:
Here is a little scenerio Ive just thought up, if you use the "Field Commander" Stratagem on Cawl in a Servitior Maniple, will he get the Master of Biosplicing instead of the Mars one?

And then have you actual warlord be whoever you want.

good question for FAQ

they will probably make it so that named characters cant use field commander to gain the detachments warlord trait

So if you have the CP, and two separate detachments to run both the robot and servitor detachments, you could have your Kastellans and kataphrons hiding out of line of sight. Then when you're ready, move them both out, pop the assault weapon strat on the bots, pop the mindlock strat on the kataphrons, and then pop elimination volley on both to have them all hitting on 3's rerolling 1's (since you need a Dominus or Cawl there to do the mindlock anyways)

Expensive CP wise, but man that is not something I'd want to get hit by. And that's if you don't know you're going first. If you're really ballsy the kataphrons can be hitting on 2's if you keep them in the open and have them sit still.

Also that WLT is really handy if it's the 4pt servitors they're talking about that you sacrifice. Being able to bring back lost servitors is huge, and you can always use master of machines alongside it to finish healing up the model if need be. Does it say if it's once per game or is it able to be used every turn

Kataphrons ignore moving and firing heavy weapons. So they can hide, jump out with their dakkabros and enjoy a 2+ to hit.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
So if you have the CP, and two separate detachments to run both the robot and servitor detachments, you could have your Kastellans and kataphrons hiding out of line of sight. Then when you're ready, move them both out, pop the assault weapon strat on the bots, pop the mindlock strat on the kataphrons, and then pop elimination volley on both to have them all hitting on 3's rerolling 1's (since you need a Dominus or Cawl there to do the mindlock anyways)

Expensive CP wise, but man that is not something I'd want to get hit by. And that's if you don't know you're going first. If you're really ballsy the kataphrons can be hitting on 2's if you keep them in the open and have them sit still.

Also that WLT is really handy if it's the 4pt servitors they're talking about that you sacrifice. Being able to bring back lost servitors is huge, and you can always use master of machines alongside it to finish healing up the model if need be. Does it say if it's once per game or is it able to be used every turn

Kataphron's can move and fire heavy weapons without taking the -1 to hit penalty. It's the "Heavy Battle Servitor" special rule that both Breachers and Destroyers have. So it's always worth hiding them out of Line of Sight during deployment in case you go second ;-).

EDIT: Ave Deus Mechanicus, I was ninja'd by a most sneaky Magos.

I think a detachment of Ryza Plasma Destroyers will become quite common for us.

Using Noospheric Mindlock, Elimination Protocols and Plasma Specialists you are getting 6d6 BS 2 shots, rerolling to hit and ignoring Gets Hot at Str 8 with a +1 to wound ap 3 and damage 3 all for 4CP and 288pts.

Then 6 24" rapid fire BS 2 reroll 1's str 5 ap 1 ignore cover shots of which we could now swap to cognis flamers that only cost 7pts so that if we get charged that 6d6 rerollable autohits at 8" range for overwatch.

 deffrekka wrote:
I think a detachment of Ryza Plasma Destroyers will become quite common for us.

Using Noospheric Mindlock, Elimination Protocols and Plasma Specialists you are getting 6d6 BS 2 shots, rerolling to hit and ignoring Gets Hot at Str 8 with a +1 to wound ap 3 and damage 3 all for 4CP and 288pts.

Then 6 24" rapid fire BS 2 reroll 1's str 5 ap 1 ignore cover shots of which we could now swap to cognis flamers that only cost 7pts so that if we get charged that 6d6 rerollable autohits at 8" range for overwatch.

I already had that thought, but take in mind that for Elimination Protocols your dakkabots have to be from the same Forgeworld.

Ryza could be very powerful damage wise. The problem I have with it is the survivability: It will be pretty obvious what you are trying to achieve, so everything will focus your destroyers.And they are not that hard to kill.

I want also highlight what MrMustaffa said. You can get some pretty crazy repairs with that. Maybe even combine this with Aggripinaa?

Not to mention you'll want a unit or two of chump servitors to cannibalize for repairing the kataphrons. The servitors can be sacked to bring back dead kataphrons and then you can use your master of marines to finish repairing the model if need be. 20pts for the ability to bring back dead kataphrons is pretty sweet.

Also, I like that the robot relic allows you to give a Dominus or Enginseer the ability to switch kastelan protocols in a 9" bubble around them. Can let you be less reliant on the strategem to switch their protocol and save some CP.

These are some really cool abilities, can't wait to see how this all works in practice. Between the points drops and the new abilities I feel like I have a brand new codex

 lash92 wrote:
Ryza could be very powerful damage wise. The problem I have with it is the survivability: It will be pretty obvious what you are trying to achieve, so everything will focus your destroyers.And they are not that hard to kill.

I want also highlight what MrMustaffa said. You can get some pretty crazy repairs with that. Maybe even combine this with Aggripinaa?

I dont think Ryza would be too bad for the Kastellans. Yeah it doesnt affect them at all but with Shroud Psalm you are still getting a 1+ save Kastellan and a 4++ turn 1. We can all agree that Stygies would be better defensively turn 1 but how often have you lost your whole unit of Robots? In every game and tournament i have played with them i have never lost a whole unit of them, especially not on turn 1. The most i have lost in any game is 3 and that was very haywire spam from harlies.

So its a considerable alternative. Simularly you could just have a maniple of just 2 Kastellans to accompany the 6 Kataphrons and these could be the punchy variant to protect the backlines from assault and help break those grinding combats our units often get stuck in.

I think there is 3 possible options at our disposal. Either 6 Rzya Destroyers and all your Dakkabots all in one list forgo the defensive Dogmas for RAW damage / take 6 Destroyers and 2 Fistbots as Ryza and still have a second maniple of Dakkabots as a different dogma but they wont receive the benefit of Elimination Protocols or / forgo Rzya entirely and use the forgeworld of your choice but loose access to Plasma Specialists.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Not to mention you'll want a unit or two of chump servitors to cannibalize for repairing the kataphrons. The servitors can be sacked to bring back dead kataphrons and then you can use your master of marines to finish repairing the model if need be. 20pts for the ability to bring back dead kataphrons is pretty sweet.

Also, I like that the robot relic allows you to give a Dominus or Enginseer the ability to switch kastelan protocols in a 9" bubble around them. Can let you be less reliant on the strategem to switch their protocol and save some CP.

These are some really cool abilities, can't wait to see how this all works in practice. Between the points drops and the new abilities I feel like I have a brand new codex

Also the relic allows us to basically not take a Datasmith in the first place. So we save another 41pts and we gain access to repairs that affect more than just Kastellans, a reroll 1's to hit in the shooting phase aura, more durability and a self repair system. We just loose out on the sweet gamma pistol (i love that thing.... after playing Mechanicus i want it to be a weapon option for all Tech-Priests but sadly that will never happen? and the power fist which is pretty much a side grade to the omnissian axe (trading 3 str, 1 AP and d3 damage for flat 2 damage and no negatives to hit + its free).

Then our own Warlord can be a Necromechanic with the Autocaduceus of Arkhan Land, the only problem with this is we spent a CP for Field Commander to regen the Kataphrons with our new cheap servitor chaff and a further CP to give the Cohort Cybernetica Enginseer the Doctrina Foreas Servo-Skull relic.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Not to mention you'll want a unit or two of chump servitors to cannibalize for repairing the kataphrons. The servitors can be sacked to bring back dead kataphrons and then you can use your master of marines to finish repairing the model if need be. 20pts for the ability to bring back dead kataphrons is pretty sweet.

Also, I like that the robot relic allows you to give a Dominus or Enginseer the ability to switch kastelan protocols in a 9" bubble around them. Can let you be less reliant on the strategem to switch their protocol and save some CP.

These are some really cool abilities, can't wait to see how this all works in practice. Between the points drops and the new abilities I feel like I have a brand new codex

I was never a fan of using CP to switch protocols. Datasmiths offer a whole lot for the 41 points you pay for them (and I always found it funny how many points people are willing to spent for a single extra CP via detachements only to spend it and immobilize their Dakkabots so they don't have to pay the few points for the Datasmith), especially as melee blockers against chaff. And not immobilizing your shootiest and most expensive unit for the rest of the game and keeping flexibility in case you can't get LoS or range to worthwhile targets in later rounds is always worth it IMO.

I also think that Agripinaa is a very viable option for the Destroyers. Their stratagem is pretty much made for servitor units, but their Relic is also very good with the plasma, but maybe even more with the Grav cannon. Stick them near a Dominus and you got reroll 1s to-hit and reroll 1s to wound against a vehicle of your choice within 18''.

Metallica is also good for avoiding those grinding combats we lose turns in. While the Dogma is not that usefull for Destroyers, if you would run the Dakkabots in a separate detachment and give them their formation bonus, then they would ignore the -1 for advancing with their stratagem fueled assault Phosphor Blasters.
I think that Metallica might give us a very mobile gunline in combination with the Kastellan formation. Which could be very cool to play with.

What do you guys think of my list idea.

2x Graia barebones battalions for the deny
3x Gallants
1x Castellan

Comes in at 1996. 14 drops and 19CP.

Think that would be fun, reasonably strong?

 Arlen wrote:
I also think that Agripinaa is a very viable option for the Destroyers. Their stratagem is pretty much made for servitor units, but their Relic is also very good with the plasma, but maybe even more with the Grav cannon. Stick them near a Dominus and you got reroll 1s to-hit and reroll 1s to wound against a vehicle of your choice within 18''.

Metallica is also good for avoiding those grinding combats we lose turns in. While the Dogma is not that usefull for Destroyers, if you would run the Dakkabots in a separate detachment and give them their formation bonus, then they would ignore the -1 for advancing with their stratagem fueled assault Phosphor Blasters.
I think that Metallica might give us a very mobile gunline in combination with the Kastellan formation. Which could be very cool to play with.

We have alot of options with our Dakkabots now! The below incorpurates the benefits each Forgeworld applies strictly to the Dakkabots (including stratagems and warlord traits)

Graia: 6+++ on their final lost wound, shooting into the melee they are engaged with and more accurate shots on the move.
Metalica: Good mobility (can hide them better turn 1 now), can fallback from melee and shoot at a -1 and more accurate shots on the move.
Stygies VIII: Better Durability over 12", a 9" redeployment move and more accurate shots on the move.
Lucius: More durability vs ap1 attacks (assault cannons, heavy bolters, autocannons, lootas, etc, turn 2 deep strike if you need to keep them extra safe and more accurate shots on the move.
Agripinaa: Overwatch on 5's to hit and more accurate shots on the move.
Mars: 2 Canticles, Wrath of Mars and more accurate shots on the move with even more hits due to Cawl.
Ryza: Reroll 1's to hit in CC..... and more accurate shots on the move.

My little review

Well you might have some good fun with 19 CP ^^
I think your list is pretty match up dependent. It will stomp some enemies while struggel against some (e.g. Eldar flyer spam)

 Ideasweasel wrote:
What do you guys think of my list idea.

2x Graia barebones battalions for the deny
3x Gallants
1x Castellan

Comes in at 1996. 14 drops and 19CP.

Think that would be fun, reasonably strong?

What household would the Knights be from and maybe drop a Gallant and get some more support from the Admech side of things. What is in your barebones battalions? 1 dominus 3 enginseers and 6x5 man squads of rangers i assume.

 deffrekka wrote:

Spoiler:

 Arlen wrote:
I also think that Agripinaa is a very viable option for the Destroyers. Their stratagem is pretty much made for servitor units, but their Relic is also very good with the plasma, but maybe even more with the Grav cannon. Stick them near a Dominus and you got reroll 1s to-hit and reroll 1s to wound against a vehicle of your choice within 18''.

Metallica is also good for avoiding those grinding combats we lose turns in. While the Dogma is not that usefull for Destroyers, if you would run the Dakkabots in a separate detachment and give them their formation bonus, then they would ignore the -1 for advancing with their stratagem fueled assault Phosphor Blasters.
I think that Metallica might give us a very mobile gunline in combination with the Kastellan formation. Which could be very cool to play with.

We have alot of options with our Dakkabots now! The below incorpurates the benefits each Forgeworld applies strictly to the Dakkabots (including stratagems and warlord traits)

Graia: 6+++ on their final lost wound, shooting into the melee they are engaged with and more accurate shots on the move.
Metalica: Good mobility (can hide them better turn 1 now), can fallback from melee and shoot at a -1 and more accurate shots on the move.
Stygies VIII: Better Durability over 12", a 9" redeployment move and more accurate shots on the move.
Lucius: More durability vs ap1 attacks (assault cannons, heavy bolters, autocannons, lootas, etc, turn 2 deep strike if you need to keep them extra safe and more accurate shots on the move.
Agripinaa: Overwatch on 5's to hit and more accurate shots on the move.
Mars: 2 Canticles, Wrath of Mars and more accurate shots on the move with even more hits due to Cawl.
Ryza: Reroll 1's to hit in CC..... and more accurate shots on the move.

My little review

Yeah exactly, I really like how these last updates with CA en Vigilus Defiant have given us so much more option and possible synergies that other forgeworlds are also starting to become a lot more interesting.
Sure a Cawlstar is still very good, but there are some more viable options on the table and that is great.

I also am starting to think about how I could play some Fistbots with these new updates.
Lucius seems great with the ability to deepstrike them deep into the enemy zone and the +3'' on your charge range give you a great chance of pulling it off.
Stygies might also be a very good option to give them that 9'' bonus movement at the start if the game after which they just run towards the enemy line.

 lash92 wrote:
Well you might have some good fun with 19 CP ^^
I think your list is pretty match up dependent. It will stomp some enemies while struggel against some (e.g. Eldar flyer spam)

Yeah eldar could be tricky. 19 CP though right!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 deffrekka wrote:

 Ideasweasel wrote:
What do you guys think of my list idea.

2x Graia barebones battalions for the deny
3x Gallants
1x Castellan

Comes in at 1996. 14 drops and 19CP.

Think that would be fun, reasonably strong?

What household would the Knights be from and maybe drop a Gallant and get some more support from the Admech side of things. What is in your barebones battalions? 1 dominus 3 enginseers and 6x5 man squads of rangers i assume.

Controversial but I’d be going for Taranis for 100 wounds of 6+ FNP and a few chances to ressurect some zombie knights

 Ideasweasel wrote:

 lash92 wrote:
Well you might have some good fun with 19 CP ^^
I think your list is pretty match up dependent. It will stomp some enemies while struggel against some (e.g. Eldar flyer spam)

Yeah eldar could be tricky. 19 CP though right!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 deffrekka wrote:

 Ideasweasel wrote:
What do you guys think of my list idea.

2x Graia barebones battalions for the deny
3x Gallants
1x Castellan

Comes in at 1996. 14 drops and 19CP.

Think that would be fun, reasonably strong?

What household would the Knights be from and maybe drop a Gallant and get some more support from the Admech side of things. What is in your barebones battalions? 1 dominus 3 enginseers and 6x5 man squads of rangers i assume.

Controversial but I’d be going for Taranis for 100 wounds of 6+ FNP and a few chances to ressurect some zombie knights

You better be a God with all those 6's your going to have to make !!

My my it looks like AdMech got the most out of CA and Vigilus. A few observations though after viewing the full pages of Detachments:

- Cawl isn't a <Tech-Priest Dominus>, so he's out of the question concerning the Warlord trait, relics and all that concerns these Detachments overall
- The Power Surge stratagem requires a Cybernetica Datasmith within 3" to activate, so if Lucius bombing you need to pay a CP for your Datasmith as well
- The Doctrina Foreas servo-skull relic is a really handy one, it saves us 1 CP when going Protector on our turn, and allows us to disengage the Robots at the start of our turn if they get tied up. Don't forget Binharic Override forbids us to switch back for the whole game so this is huge. If Lucius bombing I'd still use Binharic Override to switch them to Conqueror after charge so that they still soak up Overwatch better with their 2+/4++, and they wouldn't need to switch after that anyway

Servitor Maniple is incredible in all the possibilities it offers us for our cheaper Kataphrons. Agripinaa becomes a very attractive FW because of how much the durability of Destroyers can be increased just with that detachment. Have a unit of 6 Destroyers, already 18 T5 4+/6++ Wounds, give them 5++, now keep 4-8 Servitors hidden nearby for resurrections. If you have a wounded, heal him to full health with an Enginseer or something, then resurrect a dead for 5 pts worth of Servitors. If your unit suffered too much casualties, burn 3 CP to bring back the whole unit.

Now don't we forget Agripinaa's trait is good, 5++ Overwatch with our amount of shots is impressive, it was just overshadowed by way better traits pre-CA/Vigilus. There's their relic, the Xi-Lecum Eye or something, that gives reroll 1s to Wound (full rerolls if Chaos) to the whole army towards an enemy Vehicle within 18" of the bearer (relatively short, I admit). Mini-Doom. You know what pairs well with this ? The damn Heavy Arc Rifles and their S6. Grav-cannons from the Destroyers. Plasma, of course. Neutron Lasers, even. Breachers shooting with +1 BS start becoming interesting at 40 pts/piece, and they're not totally useless when charged. I'm still not fan of the Torsion Cannon though. Don't forget that in a Drukhari meta, Arc weapons are actually really good, they're made to kill Drukhari vehicles, and cheap.

I won't talk too much about Destroyers as you guys already covered it all I believe, just insist a bit on the Grav-cannon which is, I believe, an overlooked weapon. With Cawl's rerolls and +1/+2 to BS we're looking at 26,66/29,16 S5 AP-3 shots, that d3D on 3+ saves. On a Knight with a basic 5++ we're having 11,84/12,96 Wounds on average. Not bad for a polyvalent weapon. It's real strength is against Elite Infantry though.

Not too sold on the Ryza detachment for the Destroyers, sure it's powerful but it's a whole detachment that is off <Forge-World>, for Servitor Maniple you need your whole detachment to be Ryza. Keep that in mind.

I believe I'm going to buy more Robots and Kataphrons.

EDIT: Having two Batallions is very easy now with our cheaper HQs, with 13 CP at 2000 pts we're set for a good Alpha/Beta strike.

so, question! Is the servitor strat only a one time use one like data imperative strategems, or is a constant upgrade like the veteran thing?

 Aaranis wrote:


- Cawl isn't a <Tech-Priest Dominus>, so he's out of the question concerning the Warlord trait, relics and all that concerns these Detachments overall

Ohw crap, you are right. He only has the Tech-Priest keyword.

 Aaranis wrote:

Not too sold on the Ryza detachment for the Destroyers, sure it's powerful but it's a whole detachment that is off <Forge-World>, for Servitor Maniple you need your whole detachment to be Ryza. Keep that in mind.

Instead of a small detachment for Ryza I would think you should build more around their stratagem and dogma instead. The Destroyers are in this case are the powerhouse of a Ryza army, but there is more to add to such an army. An cool idea I have been toying with for a while is serveral drills with each 10 Vanguard inside of them with calivers for a shooty backline drop. Infiltrators are also good with the Ryza dogma and a lot cheaper right now. I think I might try some stuff with a full on Ryza list with Destroyers, Vanguard, Dragoons and Infiltrators. Maybe throw in a Valiant for some more close quarter action.

I already had quite a lot of Robots and Kataphrons, now I might just buy even more




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
so, question! Is the servitor strat only a one time use one like data imperative strategems, or is a constant upgrade like the veteran thing?

The 5++ invul is a constant upgrade that you could aply to multiple units since it is aplied pre-game.
The +1 to hit is a strat. that you can only activate in the shooting phase.

 Aaranis wrote:
My my it looks like AdMech got the most out of CA and Vigilus. A few observations though after viewing the full pages of Detachments:

- Cawl isn't a <Tech-Priest Dominus>, so he's out of the question concerning the Warlord trait, relics and all that concerns these Detachments overall
- The Power Surge stratagem requires a Cybernetica Datasmith within 3" to activate, so if Lucius bombing you need to pay a CP for your Datasmith as well
- The Doctrina Foreas servo-skull relic is a really handy one, it saves us 1 CP when going Protector on our turn, and allows us to disengage the Robots at the start of our turn if they get tied up. Don't forget Binharic Override forbids us to switch back for the whole game so this is huge. If Lucius bombing I'd still use Binharic Override to switch them to Conqueror after charge so that they still soak up Overwatch better with their 2+/4++, and they wouldn't need to switch after that anyway

Servitor Maniple is incredible in all the possibilities it offers us for our cheaper Kataphrons. Agripinaa becomes a very attractive FW because of how much the durability of Destroyers can be increased just with that detachment. Have a unit of 6 Destroyers, already 18 T5 4+/6++ Wounds, give them 5++, now keep 4-8 Servitors hidden nearby for resurrections. If you have a wounded, heal him to full health with an Enginseer or something, then resurrect a dead for 5 pts worth of Servitors. If your unit suffered too much casualties, burn 3 CP to bring back the whole unit.

Now don't we forget Agripinaa's trait is good, 5++ Overwatch with our amount of shots is impressive, it was just overshadowed by way better traits pre-CA/Vigilus. There's their relic, the Xi-Lecum Eye or something, that gives reroll 1s to Wound (full rerolls if Chaos) to the whole army towards an enemy Vehicle within 18" of the bearer (relatively short, I admit). Mini-Doom. You know what pairs well with this ? The damn Heavy Arc Rifles and their S6. Grav-cannons from the Destroyers. Plasma, of course. Neutron Lasers, even. Breachers shooting with +1 BS start becoming interesting at 40 pts/piece, and they're not totally useless when charged. I'm still not fan of the Torsion Cannon though. Don't forget that in a Drukhari meta, Arc weapons are actually really good, they're made to kill Drukhari vehicles, and cheap.

I won't talk too much about Destroyers as you guys already covered it all I believe, just insist a bit on the Grav-cannon which is, I believe, an overlooked weapon. With Cawl's rerolls and +1/+2 to BS we're looking at 26,66/29,16 S5 AP-3 shots, that d3D on 3+ saves. On a Knight with a basic 5++ we're having 11,84/12,96 Wounds on average. Not bad for a polyvalent weapon. It's real strength is against Elite Infantry though.

Not too sold on the Ryza detachment for the Destroyers, sure it's powerful but it's a whole detachment that is off <Forge-World>, for Servitor Maniple you need your whole detachment to be Ryza. Keep that in mind.

I believe I'm going to buy more Robots and Kataphrons.

EDIT: Having two Batallions is very easy now with our cheaper HQs, with 13 CP at 2000 pts we're set for a good Alpha/Beta strike.

I think the problem with Agripinaa is that it doesn't boast the durability of non-kataphron units, so where as people said they wouldnt go Ryza as they loose out on the defensive dogmas of other Forge Worlds, here is the same problem. And whilst the Agripinaa relic is actually pretty sweet (to be honest i forgot that it existed!!! ) you will pretty much have to sprint that Enginseer up the field to get the benefits. Now that isnt a huge problem but he may not reach his target to relay the re'roll 1's to wound for you anti tank elements vs that target.

So i think Ryza and Agripinaa are in the same boat, both lack durability (except recycling some destroyers for Agripinaa) compared to Stygies VIII, Lucius and Graia, both may never get their Dogmas off at all (if you face another shooty list, or they have something that ignores overwatch and obliterates you so you cant get to fight back) and both have bad warlord traits in that they dont benefit their army, just themselves.

Now i do like the Xi-Lecum Eye as we are basically getting a Lieutanent vs a single unit but its a matter of getting it by your chosen enemy vehicle turn 1 onwards which may prove troublesome an a suicide mission for that character and its support squads.

Anyone Notice servo arms went down to 0 points?

I really like the servitor formations. More BS is very much needed, and since I pretty much already use destroyers in every list (and probably will be more now that they are cheaper) this is pretty much a no brainer. I can hardly wait for battle scribe to update the point values, I just want to build lists now instead of studying for the chemistry final like I should be doing.

I think my shopping list is going to be another enginseer, at least one box of kataphrons, maybe another unit of robots just so I can fill out more lists. There is so much I want to play with now...

and dammit I have to buy the campaign book now too!

Arlen wrote:Instead of a small detachment for Ryza I would think you should build more around their stratagem and dogma instead. The Destroyers are in this case are the powerhouse of a Ryza army, but there is more to add to such an army. An cool idea I have been toying with for a while is serveral drills with each 10 Vanguard inside of them with calivers for a shooty backline drop. Infiltrators are also good with the Ryza dogma and a lot cheaper right now. I think I might try some stuff with a full on Ryza list with Destroyers, Vanguard, Dragoons and Infiltrators. Maybe throw in a Valiant for some more close quarter action.

I already had quite a lot of Robots and Kataphrons, now I might just buy even more

The Drill can contain 12 models, go balls-out with 2 squads of 6 with 2 Calivers each: 8 plasma shots + 24 radium shots ! Then you try to throw your Drills in CC to occupy the dangerous stuff. I like that plan. Honestly I love Drills but I'll never buy a 100+€ model who can be banned at tournaments or nerfed to the ground because FW is as unstable as 7th edition's plasma.

I just need 2 more Dakkabots and 4 Fistybots, 3 more plasma Destroyers and I'd be set for a while.

deffrekka wrote:I think the problem with Agripinaa is that it doesn't boast the durability of non-kataphron units, so where as people said they wouldnt go Ryza as they loose out on the defensive dogmas of other Forge Worlds, here is the same problem. And whilst the Agripinaa relic is actually pretty sweet (to be honest i forgot that it existed!!! ) you will pretty much have to sprint that Enginseer up the field to get the benefits. Now that isnt a huge problem but he may not reach his target to relay the re'roll 1's to wound for you anti tank elements vs that target.

So i think Ryza and Agripinaa are in the same boat, both lack durability (except recycling some destroyers for Agripinaa) compared to Stygies VIII, Lucius and Graia, both may never get their Dogmas off at all (if you face another shooty list, or they have something that ignores overwatch and obliterates you so you cant get to fight back) and both have bad warlord traits in that they dont benefit their army, just themselves.

Now i do like the Xi-Lecum Eye as we are basically getting a Lieutanent vs a single unit but its a matter of getting it by your chosen enemy vehicle turn 1 onwards which may prove troublesome an a suicide mission for that character and its support squads.

I believe a 5++ Overwatch counts as a defensive option but I get that Stygies VIII, Graia and Lucius are more reliable and versatile. In the case where we're running Agripinaa it would be solely to build around Kataphrons, like we build Mars lists around Dakkastelans or Stygies lists around Dragoons/Fulgurites.

Ryza benefit Destroyers and Vanguard immensely with the stratagem + Servitor Maniple, but it could work as an army if building a bit around the Dogma too. What benefits the most of rerolling 1s to Wound in CC are Fulgurites and Ruststalkers, and the latter are now 15 pts/model.

Xi-Lecum's Eye would work when said Vehicles are coming your way or if playing a mobile gunline list but that's not really usual indeed.

Speaking of mobile gunlines, let us not forget that we essentially ignore Heavy penalties, with the discounts on Destroyers, Cognis Flamers and Incendine Combustors, walking in the face of the opponent short-range style might be worth thinking about. It gives more board control, and dares the opponent to charge your flamers or suffer them nonetheless in the Shooting phase. With Agripinaa who lose nothing at breaking the distance compared to Stygies this might be a valuable tactic, and increases the use of Xi-Lecum's Eye in doing so. I'll try building a list in that style for curiosity, with 6 Destroyers with flamers, Robots with Combustors and Aegis, and a few Servitors to feed the Kataphrons.

On a side note I'm glad to be back in this thread. I left for a while when it became Tactica Imperial Knights + Soup but these changes are worth the comeback.

I think this discussion is missing the fact that Onagers went down 20 points. 3x icarus onagers should be in every admech list ever. They are comically point efficient. The basic STYGIES TPD/Engi/3xRangers/3xIcarus battalion went down ~107 points.

EDIT: from my read on the leaks, I think putting knights in with majority admech is dead. There are too many good power combos in admech right now to waste payload points on knights. However, min admech battalions have now become better helpers to majority MECHANICUS knight lists than min guard battalions.