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forge world spoilor does not work

second of all should not the Adeptus mechanicus have acessto Primaris space marienes ecpsially as the Primar Legion chapter has it's offical headquatrors in the fluff on Mars (althoguh they spend most of their time floating the gallexy looking to bulstor and reiforce)

Why not the Steel confesors part of the the secret chaptors that the ordeo heretocus gave the The Adeptus a naughty slap on the hand.

Any ideas if Custodes Bikes could be viable for our army? I am toying with the idea of switching dragoons to bikers

Iago40k wrote:
Any ideas if Custodes Bikes could be viable for our army? I am toying with the idea of switching dragoons to bikers

Aside from looks, why?

Suzuteo wrote:

 axisofentropy wrote:

 axisofentropy wrote:

Wulfey wrote:
Is there a good, cheap space marine HQ?

Blood Angel Captain with those relic wings. ofc that requires your warlord to be a Blood Angel but he's really really good and not too expensive. He appears in several top LVO lists.

oh there's a way to get him the relic wings without a blood Angel Warlord: a 100% blood Angel detachment allows their strategems including the extra relic strategem.

I still cannot believe that that was RAI.

You and me both. it's totally bogus imo.

I'm eagerly awaiting details on that mini knight, if it's impoerial knights only or doesn't offer some form of horde management then i'm buying Cawl (yes I dont have him yet) there's a seller on eBay with him for £18 atm.

I really want that mini knight to be good, land raider level toughness but with more weapons options than a regular knight.

Octovol wrote:

Suzuteo wrote:

 axisofentropy wrote:

 axisofentropy wrote:

Wulfey wrote:
Is there a good, cheap space marine HQ?

Blood Angel Captain with those relic wings. ofc that requires your warlord to be a Blood Angel but he's really really good and not too expensive. He appears in several top LVO lists.

oh there's a way to get him the relic wings without a blood Angel Warlord: a 100% blood Angel detachment allows their strategems including the extra relic strategem.

I still cannot believe that that was RAI.

You and me both. it's totally bogus imo.

I'm eagerly awaiting details on that mini knight, if it's impoerial knights only or doesn't offer some form of horde management then i'm buying Cawl (yes I dont have him yet) there's a seller on eBay with him for £18 atm.

I really want that mini knight to be good, land raider level toughness but with more weapons options than a regular knight.

He is going to be a T7 2 shot multi-melta armed Onager with 12" move, 16 wounds, but 4 sword attacks that do d6 damage on a 3+. Probably 220 points base, but 250 after you put the good gear on.

Wulfey wrote:

Octovol wrote:

Suzuteo wrote:

 axisofentropy wrote:

 axisofentropy wrote:

Wulfey wrote:
Is there a good, cheap space marine HQ?

Blood Angel Captain with those relic wings. ofc that requires your warlord to be a Blood Angel but he's really really good and not too expensive. He appears in several top LVO lists.

oh there's a way to get him the relic wings without a blood Angel Warlord: a 100% blood Angel detachment allows their strategems including the extra relic strategem.

I still cannot believe that that was RAI.

You and me both. it's totally bogus imo.

I'm eagerly awaiting details on that mini knight, if it's impoerial knights only or doesn't offer some form of horde management then i'm buying Cawl (yes I dont have him yet) there's a seller on eBay with him for £18 atm.

I really want that mini knight to be good, land raider level toughness but with more weapons options than a regular knight.

He is going to be a T7 2 shot multi-melta armed Onager with 12" move, 16 wounds, but 4 sword attacks that do d6 damage on a 3+. Probably 220 points base, but 250 after you put the good gear on.

All that, but 300pt.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Wulfey wrote:

Octovol wrote:

Suzuteo wrote:

 axisofentropy wrote:

 axisofentropy wrote:

Wulfey wrote:
Is there a good, cheap space marine HQ?

Blood Angel Captain with those relic wings. ofc that requires your warlord to be a Blood Angel but he's really really good and not too expensive. He appears in several top LVO lists.

oh there's a way to get him the relic wings without a blood Angel Warlord: a 100% blood Angel detachment allows their strategems including the extra relic strategem.

I still cannot believe that that was RAI.

You and me both. it's totally bogus imo.

I'm eagerly awaiting details on that mini knight, if it's impoerial knights only or doesn't offer some form of horde management then i'm buying Cawl (yes I dont have him yet) there's a seller on eBay with him for £18 atm.

I really want that mini knight to be good, land raider level toughness but with more weapons options than a regular knight.

He is going to be a T7 2 shot multi-melta armed Onager with 12" move, 16 wounds, but 4 sword attacks that do d6 damage on a 3+. Probably 220 points base, but 250 after you put the good gear on.

All that, but 300pt.

Worth it if it becomes T8 and 14" move imo.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Wulfey wrote:

Octovol wrote:

Suzuteo wrote:

 axisofentropy wrote:

 axisofentropy wrote:

Wulfey wrote:
Is there a good, cheap space marine HQ?

Blood Angel Captain with those relic wings. ofc that requires your warlord to be a Blood Angel but he's really really good and not too expensive. He appears in several top LVO lists.

oh there's a way to get him the relic wings without a blood Angel Warlord: a 100% blood Angel detachment allows their strategems including the extra relic strategem.

I still cannot believe that that was RAI.

You and me both. it's totally bogus imo.

I'm eagerly awaiting details on that mini knight, if it's impoerial knights only or doesn't offer some form of horde management then i'm buying Cawl (yes I dont have him yet) there's a seller on eBay with him for £18 atm.

I really want that mini knight to be good, land raider level toughness but with more weapons options than a regular knight.

He is going to be a T7 2 shot multi-melta armed Onager with 12" move, 16 wounds, but 4 sword attacks that do d6 damage on a 3+. Probably 220 points base, but 250 after you put the good gear on.

All that, but 300pt.

Worth it if it becomes T8 and 14" move imo.

Don't hold your breath. It will totally be T7 12" move, for sure. GW is just bad at balancing larger models like Knights.

I know.

I'm just saying - there exists a world where one could get excited about this model. I am in that world now, and it's great, but I'm sure it will all come crashing down soon.

My guess is T7 M12" W12 and a 24" Heavy 2 S8 AP-4 D6 Multi-Melta like that on the Land Raider, but doubled.

Suzuteo wrote:
My guess is T7 M12" W12 and a 24" Heavy 1 S8 AP-4 D6 Multi-Melta like that on the Land Raider.

I hope it's not this atrociously bad.

It's a miniature Knight, not an Onager w/ a multi-melta option and wheels.

GW prices models that can both shoot and fight very high. Except for eldar units like shining spears. This mini knight has a gun and a sword, so it will cost a crapton of points. In GWs mind, that this thing can shoot like an onager and fight like a dreadnaught means it should cost as much as an onager and a dreadnaught put together. See also: fist kastelons costing more than phosphor kastelons, despite being a much worse choice under all circumstances. Yes, all circumstances. Even if your opponent brought nothing but rhinos, yes, the phosphor will help more.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Suzuteo wrote:
My guess is T7 M12" W12 and a 24" Heavy 1 S8 AP-4 D6 Multi-Melta like that on the Land Raider.

I hope it's not this atrociously bad.

It's a miniature Knight, not an Onager w/ a multi-melta option and wheels.

Oops, wrote Heavy 1, when it should be 2. xD

Wulfey wrote:
GW prices models that can both shoot and fight very high. Except for eldar units like shining spears. This mini knight has a gun and a sword, so it will cost a crapton of points. In GWs mind, that this thing can shoot like an onager and fight like a dreadnaught means it should cost as much as an onager and a dreadnaught put together. See also: fist kastelons costing more than phosphor kastelons, despite being a much worse choice under all circumstances. Yes, all circumstances. Even if your opponent brought nothing but rhinos, yes, the phosphor will help more.

This.

I just got back from the LVO, thought I'd report on how I faired. Answer: very poorly. I want to caveat this with the fact that prior to this year playing my eldar, my worst record was 3-3. 2014 I took second for renaissance person going 5-1, only loosing to Paul McIlvey.

Before I start complaining just gotta say that the tournament did go well for me, I got to play on the warhammer tv stream(https://www.twitch.tv/videos/222744245), and won second place for best hobbyist! Took home a bunch of swag. It was my 5th year there and I'll definitely be back for the 6th. The LVO is such a good tourney. All of my games were against excellent opponents and I had so much fun.

Back to the complaining...

Firstly, my list. I'm aware it's not top tier, but some concessions were made to travelling with it.


All of my games went something like this: Open up with the fistellans and the dragoons absolutely murdering things (magnus T1, giant squiggoth T1, 30 genestealers, etc), then proceeding to fade and lose the game turn 4 onwards. The fistellans and dragoons would be dead by this point having given up 4 point for gangbusters invariably, my rangers would be gone, and the opponent has killed my assassins for at least three headhunter points. After T4 I couldn't compete on objectives. My Dakkastellans rarely died, and I typically had more points model wise left than my opponents at the end of T6. Opponents quickly learned to just stay in cover or out of range of the kastellans and on an objective. My game scores were relatively high, 20-25ish points and a loss kinda thing. Like I said, usually a crazy strong start.

Things to note if you plan on doing the ITC thing:
-Don't take a unit of more than 3 dragoons. Two units of three may not be a bad idea. Giving up max gangbusters is rough. They just aren't tough enough.
-Dakkastellans are a tough unit to play well with that much LOS blocking terrain coupled with the fact the objectives most of the time were statically placed in poor spots for them to castle up on. Datasmiths are more useful than I gave them credit for.
-You need mobile expendable throw away units that can clear chaff. Dragoons may not be bad for this. Deepstriking infiltrators could be okay for this too.
-You'll need a counter assault or free safety type unit to hold your side of the field. We don't really have anything like that, as priests are too slow.
-You need indirect fire weapons. We obviously don't have that.
-Fistellans are horrifically bad. A knight would have been loads better. If the fistellans had a 4++ in combat they may be worth taking. ws 4+ and 3 attacks is bogus. The fact the protocols allows them to FIGHT twice, not double their attacks allows other units to interrupt them. Celestine basically soloed the fistellans one game.

I went 0-4-1, I dropped round 6. All in all I feel that ad mech just simply cannot compete as a mono faction build. We all knew this.

Octovol wrote:

Suzuteo wrote:

 axisofentropy wrote:

 axisofentropy wrote:

Wulfey wrote:
Is there a good, cheap space marine HQ?

Blood Angel Captain with those relic wings. ofc that requires your warlord to be a Blood Angel but he's really really good and not too expensive. He appears in several top LVO lists.

oh there's a way to get him the relic wings without a blood Angel Warlord: a 100% blood Angel detachment allows their strategems including the extra relic strategem.

I still cannot believe that that was RAI.

You and me both. it's totally bogus imo.

I'm eagerly awaiting details on that mini knight, if it's impoerial knights only or doesn't offer some form of horde management then i'm buying Cawl (yes I dont have him yet) there's a seller on eBay with him for £18 atm.

I really want that mini knight to be good, land raider level toughness but with more weapons options than a regular knight.

Why would it be land raider level toughness when even a regular knight isn't that tough?

linds14sr20det, congrats on the hobbyist 2nd place, do you have pics of your forces?

I saw your poor fist kastelons on the stream. For 'tough' units they just don't have many wounds. A fist kastelons are 121 points for 6 T7 wounds. A rhino is 75 points for 10 T7 wounds. Yeah, the Reecehammer came down hard on big dragoon bombs since they are a guaranteed max 4 points for your opponent in ITC.

 ph34r wrote:
linds14sr20det, congrats on the hobbyist 2nd place, do you have pics of your forces?

I'm getting some photos done up right away, as surprisingly enough a lot of people are asking for em haha. Off topic, but painting went really well for me, one of my busts earned me a gold in masterclass large. Same category as some really good painters! Guess I must be getting okay at this...

Suzuteo wrote:

Why would it be land raider level toughness when even a regular knight isn't that tough?

Yeah guess i forgot they have 2+ saves lol. No invuln on a raider though. I kinda expect the mini knight to be t7 14w 3+/5++

I like how were all dismissing this knight based on a single static image. Imagine if we dismissed kastellans based on their default loadout.

It would be kinda pointless imo to have the mini knight simply be an actual mini knight. I mean aside from the wounds and titanic abilites why would you take a full knight if the mini ones played the same role?

For starters a full knight moves 12”, the suped up chicken legs look way quicker than the lumbering bulk of a full knight. So it’s going to be quicker. Imagine if it could use some of the acastus weapons? If it does have some form of admech involvement it could end up with volkite or darklight options. I just cant see what a smaller version of a big knight would offer.

Course it could be another one of those “oh you need some cheaper units to fill detachments?, here’s some BS nobody wants (read: enginseer) so you have at least one cheap tax model to use” but imperial kinights cant benefit from that at the moment. There’s more incetive for it to have a different role; all the knights are LoW atm, so even giving them a single model in another slot is point;ess for detachment tax. Unless the small ones can be built as fast attack or heavy? There could be more imperial knight models on the way to fill detachments i guess. But thats some optimistic tease if we’ve got at least 3 xenos codexes to come first even if imperial knights is the 4th in line.

linds14sr20det wrote:

Things to note if you plan on doing the ITC thing:
[1.] Don't take a unit of more than 3 dragoons. Two units of three may not be a bad idea. Giving up max gangbusters is rough. They just aren't tough enough.
[2.] Dakkastellans are a tough unit to play well with that much LOS blocking terrain coupled with the fact the objectives most of the time were statically placed in poor spots for them to castle up on. Datasmiths are more useful than I gave them credit for.
[3.] You need mobile expendable throw away units that can clear chaff. Dragoons may not be bad for this. Deepstriking infiltrators could be okay for this too.
[4.] You'll need a counter assault or free safety type unit to hold your side of the field. We don't really have anything like that, as priests are too slow.
[5.] You need indirect fire weapons. We obviously don't have that.
[6.] Fistellans are horrifically bad. A knight would have been loads better. If the fistellans had a 4++ in combat they may be worth taking. ws 4+ and 3 attacks is bogus. The fact the protocols allows them to FIGHT twice, not double their attacks allows other units to interrupt them. Celestine basically soloed the fistellans one game.

I went 0-4-1, I dropped round 6. All in all I feel that ad mech just simply cannot compete as a mono faction build. We all knew this.

Added numbers to make this easier to answer.

1. I typically recommend 4x Dragoons. It's a large enough unit to threaten tanks with CDI, and you avoid the pile-in problems of 5-6.
2. Most competitive lists have Earthshakers for this precise reason. Datasmiths have a lot going against them, but yeah, before we had Binharic Override, they were considered a plus.
3. We used to use paired Dragoons for screening before our Vanguard got cheaper and Guard was revealed to be pretty OP. Infiltrators face many of the same problems you found with Fistelans, except they're more fragile and less reliable.
4. Yeah. Closest we have are Dragoons or throwing Cawl at them. =\
5. I recommend 3x Basilisks in every competitive list.
6. Yeah... >_>

Suzuteo wrote:

linds14sr20det wrote:

Things to note if you plan on doing the ITC thing:
[1.] Don't take a unit of more than 3 dragoons. Two units of three may not be a bad idea. Giving up max gangbusters is rough. They just aren't tough enough.
[2.] Dakkastellans are a tough unit to play well with that much LOS blocking terrain coupled with the fact the objectives most of the time were statically placed in poor spots for them to castle up on. Datasmiths are more useful than I gave them credit for.
[3.] You need mobile expendable throw away units that can clear chaff. Dragoons may not be bad for this. Deepstriking infiltrators could be okay for this too.
[4.] You'll need a counter assault or free safety type unit to hold your side of the field. We don't really have anything like that, as priests are too slow.
[5.] You need indirect fire weapons. We obviously don't have that.
[6.] Fistellans are horrifically bad. A knight would have been loads better. If the fistellans had a 4++ in combat they may be worth taking. ws 4+ and 3 attacks is bogus. The fact the protocols allows them to FIGHT twice, not double their attacks allows other units to interrupt them. Celestine basically soloed the fistellans one game.

I went 0-4-1, I dropped round 6. All in all I feel that ad mech just simply cannot compete as a mono faction build. We all knew this.

Added numbers to make this easier to answer.

1. I typically recommend 4x Dragoons. It's a large enough unit to threaten tanks with CDI, and you avoid the pile-in problems of 5-6.
2. Most competitive lists have Earthshakers for this precise reason. Datasmiths have a lot going against them, but yeah, before we had Binharic Override, they were considered a plus.
3. We used to use paired Dragoons for screening before our Vanguard got cheaper and Guard was revealed to be pretty OP. Infiltrators face many of the same problems you found with Fistelans, except they're more fragile and less reliable.
4. Yeah. Closest we have are Dragoons or throwing Cawl at them. =\
5. I recommend 3x Basilisks in every competitive list.
6. Yeah... >_>

In response to 1) the ITC makes units of four dragoons not a good choice. Giving up that gangbusters point is tough to swallow, since the dragoons will die to any dedicated cc unit. 5 was great for offense, no issues with pile in. Just gave up way too many ITC secondary points.

linds14sr20det wrote:
I got to play on the warhammer tv stream

I saw this and it was a good game!

linds14sr20det wrote:

In response to 1) the ITC makes units of four dragoons not a good choice. Giving up that gangbusters point is tough to swallow, since the dragoons will die to any dedicated cc unit. 5 was great for offense, no issues with pile in. Just gave up way too many ITC secondary points.

I don't think Gang Busters is a good argument for not taking Dragoons. People usually nominate the Kastelans anyway; I bring 5.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Iago40k wrote:
Any ideas if Custodes Bikes could be viable for our army? I am toying with the idea of switching dragoons to bikers

Aside from looks, why?

tougher, quicker, Hurricane Bolters, FLY!

Iago40k wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Iago40k wrote:
Any ideas if Custodes Bikes could be viable for our army? I am toying with the idea of switching dragoons to bikers

Aside from looks, why?

tougher, quicker, Hurricane Bolters, FLY!

Aren't they rather expensive though? (That's what I heard. Can anyone confirm?)

Suzuteo wrote:

Iago40k wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Iago40k wrote:
Any ideas if Custodes Bikes could be viable for our army? I am toying with the idea of switching dragoons to bikers

Aside from looks, why?

tougher, quicker, Hurricane Bolters, FLY!

Aren't they rather expensive though? (That's what I heard. Can anyone confirm?)

They seem pretty good to me. Group size 3-10. 90 points each for Hurricane bolter ones or 115 for salvo launchers

PiñaColada wrote:

Suzuteo wrote:

Iago40k wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Iago40k wrote:
Any ideas if Custodes Bikes could be viable for our army? I am toying with the idea of switching dragoons to bikers

Aside from looks, why?

tougher, quicker, Hurricane Bolters, FLY!

Aren't they rather expensive though? (That's what I heard. Can anyone confirm?)

They seem pretty good to me. Group size 3-10. 90 points each for Hurricane bolter ones or 115 for salvo launchers

90 for those with Hurricane Bolters. I dont like the Salvo Launchers though. you get 3 bikes and a shield captain on bike for roughly the same price as 6 dragoons. so a patrol detachment with all the benefits and stratagems to use.

I think the 90pt Hurricane Bolter bikes are boss (although the salvo ones are ho-hum IMO). Chaff control, hits like a brick in CC, great stratagems, there's really nothing to not like.

 Fenris-77 wrote:
I think the 90pt Hurricane Bolter bikes are boss (although the salvo ones are ho-hum IMO). Chaff control, hits like a brick in CC, great stratagems, there's really nothing to not like.

Do they have a Jetbike HQ? If so, it is theoretically doable. But 270pt for three squads plus an HQ isn't necessarily cheap for so few bodies, but could be a replacement for Dragoon Outrider detachments in our lists. Getting the bonus of Fly, shooting and better CC would be nice.