Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Considering I don't field solo knights any more having 2 small low and making a shdeatch +3 cp is big for ad mech. As long as they are worth it!

So for me seems like a good option since many got a crusader++ getting dust but:

A) need to be cc worty with good invu not like Robots !
B) need to be low in points to fit with Cawl star +1 more detach!
C) need to have ad mech for canticles or we are again with out new unit and as always it would be more wise to play imperium with Astra custodes detachments.
D) if there is no synergy with ad mech will prove that gw really don't give a gak about ad mech. There non other army codex or not so bad designed useless and with no plan on the table like ad mech.

PiñaColada wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
They are a Lord of War? Well, they will be overpriced then. GW has no idea how to handle point costs on the "big" stuff (see: Knights).

That's what I'm afraid of. The box is weird though, someone over at bolter and chainsword calculated the necrons to be worth around 500points (I don't know necrons and this is obviously pre-codex so not exactly ironclad numbers) but Admech is 195 minimum sans knights (125 for a base TPD and 70 for 10 rangers, stock) but considering they're showing them with an transuranic arquebus, an arc rifle and a guy with a phosphor blast pistol they're actually 227 points. (+25,+4,+3 respectively). So unless the knights are like 135points each how is this box balanced pointwise?

They don't do balanced box sets, so that isn't something I would factor in. Unless they really are cheap and just terrible - which their weapon load out makes me think they will be.

Don't be so sad about it being a LoW. GW does get big stuff. Baneblades and their ilk are fantastic this edition, though last edition I grant they were atrociously bad.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Don't be so sad about it being a LoW. GW does get big stuff. Baneblades and their ilk are fantastic this edition, though last edition I grant they were atrociously bad.

The Baneblade is the exception, not the rule.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Don't be so sad about it being a LoW. GW does get big stuff. Baneblades and their ilk are fantastic this edition, though last edition I grant they were atrociously bad.

The Baneblade is the exception, not the rule.

Still, evidence they are getting a better handle on Lords of War. I think unifying them with other vehicles rather than having them be special snowflakes has really helped GW to sort them out.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Don't be so sad about it being a LoW. GW does get big stuff. Baneblades and their ilk are fantastic this edition, though last edition I grant they were atrociously bad.

The Baneblade is the exception, not the rule.

Still, evidence they are getting a better handle on Lords of War. I think unifying them with other vehicles rather than having them be special snowflakes has really helped GW to sort them out.

Chapter Approved kinda says they aren't getting it.

250 points
T7
18 wounds
2x meltagun shots that hit on 3+, no access to rerolls
4x melee swings that hit on a 3+, d6 damage, str 12, -3

You know these are the stats in your heart of hearts. These things are going to be unusable junk.

Since they are new wulfey would Gw not want them to sell.

Surely they will come outta the box - on the good to OP side...and then thoroughly nerf them later?

Ie hurray...until a chapter approved nerf hammer and then everyone gets buyers remorse?

They have 2 things going against them:
1. Big stuff is overpriced
2. If something shoots well and punches well - it is overpriced.

I'd guess M12" BS3+ WS3+ S7 T7 W14 A4 LD8 Sv3+ and a 5+ invulvn against shooting (well maybe not but I hope)
The thermal spear , which is a badass name, has the stats of the old thermal cannon and shorter range I'd guess. So Range 24" Heavy D3 S9 AP-4 Dmg D6 (12" melta range)
The reaper chain cleaver is a weaker chainsword so maybe S+3 AP-3 Dmg 3

All for the low price of: I want to cry(?)

So I've had quite a bit of luck lately with the following list:



My LVO list had no problem hitting super hard, but had a lot of trouble staying around. The fistellans were shockingly not durable, lacking an invulnerable in combat. The game at the LVO that bothers me the most was the one I played on the GW stream, where celestine walked all over me. I need something with an invul like celestine.

The custodes are the answer here. They are T6 which gets them functionally into the same toughness territory as the robots and have a 4+ invul, with the option for two of them to go to 3+ via wargear. Add into that a WT that gives a 5+ FNP save, the ability to swap out the warlord when one dies and get this trait back, they are crazy durable. Seven wounds mean they can't be removed by a single lucky damage d6 type weapon. They also have the character rule which can be super useful, especially with the dragoons upfield. Coupled with the fact they can act as anti-tank with the salvo launcher they get to be pretty damn useful.

I've been using them to keep the pressure off of my gunline and to support the dragoons where needed. This list has been so fun to play and has rekindled my desire to play ad-mech after the pounding I received at the lvo haha.

If we had a transport for Fulgurite electro priests they could sorta fulfil this role, but even so, the custodes would be definitely more points efficient.

Yes, using Shield Captains in place of Celestine makes a good list. I have run them a few times and have found them to be super worth their 160 points. They are tough and threaten everything and have the mobility to actually play the game while your admech doesn't move. What feels odd is the conflict between sydonian dragoons and the bikers. They feel like they would be fighting for the same space and doing similar jobs. Dragoons have left me with a lot of bad feels because they are VEHICLES without FLY so they can never threaten anything in terrain and get wrecked by narrow rock gaps. Against non-eldar they will do great work.

Because Shield captains can fly, they can always wobbly model onto any part of terrain and don't have the crippling weaknesses dragoons have against power players.

Wulfey wrote:
Yes, using Shield Captains in place of Celestine makes a good list. I have run them a few times and have found them to be super worth their 160 points. They are tough and threaten everything and have the mobility to actually play the game while your admech doesn't move. What feels odd is the conflict between sydonian dragoons and the bikers. They feel like they would be fighting for the same space and doing similar jobs. Dragoons have left me with a lot of bad feels because they are VEHICLES without FLY so they can never threaten anything in terrain and get wrecked by narrow rock gaps. Against non-eldar they will do great work.

Because Shield captains can fly, they can always wobbly model onto any part of terrain and don't have the crippling weaknesses dragoons have against power players.

I really like dragoons, despite their weaknesses. The ability to infiltrate and charge has been clutch, the ability to go up S9 with ap -1 and D2 is amazing against tanks, monsters, etc. They also do fantastic work as a giant distraction carnifex. I've never felt they have not been worth it. I wouldn't leave home without this unit, mostly cause they are so fun to play.

Wulfey wrote:
Yes, using Shield Captains in place of Celestine makes a good list. I have run them a few times and have found them to be super worth their 160 points. They are tough and threaten everything and have the mobility to actually play the game while your admech doesn't move. What feels odd is the conflict between sydonian dragoons and the bikers. They feel like they would be fighting for the same space and doing similar jobs. Dragoons have left me with a lot of bad feels because they are VEHICLES without FLY so they can never threaten anything in terrain and get wrecked by narrow rock gaps. Against non-eldar they will do great work.

Because Shield captains can fly, they can always wobbly model onto any part of terrain and don't have the crippling weaknesses dragoons have against power players.

They do different jobs, but in a similar way. Dragoons are can openers that wreck vehicles and characters. Custodes are mostly SM Bikes on steroids; they perform mostly anti-infantry roles.

I don't understand what you mean by "can never threaten anything in terrain." Do you mean ruins specifically?

And yeah, obstacles and impassable terrain can be a problem for Dragoons. It's why I never recommend more than 4. Just a reality of how piling in works.

Suzuteo wrote:

Wulfey wrote:
Yes, using Shield Captains in place of Celestine makes a good list. I have run them a few times and have found them to be super worth their 160 points. They are tough and threaten everything and have the mobility to actually play the game while your admech doesn't move. What feels odd is the conflict between sydonian dragoons and the bikers. They feel like they would be fighting for the same space and doing similar jobs. Dragoons have left me with a lot of bad feels because they are VEHICLES without FLY so they can never threaten anything in terrain and get wrecked by narrow rock gaps. Against non-eldar they will do great work.

Because Shield captains can fly, they can always wobbly model onto any part of terrain and don't have the crippling weaknesses dragoons have against power players.

They do different jobs, but in a similar way. Dragoons are can openers that wreck vehicles and characters. Custodes are mostly SM Bikes on steroids; they perform mostly anti-infantry roles.

I don't understand what you mean by "can never threaten anything in terrain." Do you mean ruins specifically?

And yeah, obstacles and impassable terrain can be a problem for Dragoons. It's why I never recommend more than 4. Just a reality of how piling in works.

If an opponent deepstrikes an infantry unit into terrain that is 3" above the ground, it isn't on the first floor of the ruins. So as a vehicle without fly, the dragoons can never pile in within 1 inch of the upstairs models. I may bring my dragoons off the shelf if i can find a game. But I like my bikers so much. THey can get up those ruins and get those models that opponents say are invincible thanks to ruins rules. The good thing about the dragoon bomb list is that it forces your opponent to shoot them at -2. Robots aren't good targets and custodes can't be shot if skitarii are still alive. I do hope the march update mixes things up to allow melee vehicles to be more flexible about targeting things in terrain.

Yeah, okay. That's what I thought. It is super annoying, but the way I see it, Dragoons aren't meant to chase infantry into ruins. They are intended to go for transports and tanks. Maybe get those necessary early hits on a Celestine or Smash Bro.

Personnaly, my 3 Stygies Dragoons + Stratagem are a terrifying weapon against TEQ. I've been wrecking 5 DW Knights consistently on the charge thanks to that.

EDIT: Had the most spectacular fail from 10 Hellblasters while playing against Raven Guard today. He shot my 3 Dragoons with them, in Overcharge, without re-rolls. He lost 9 Hellblasters because of the 1s and 2s to Hit and killed me exactly one Dragoon. I think they are blessed. And morality: Always get rerolls while firing Overcharge.

Finally had a game with Lucius and managed to teleport my tech priest dominus to safety. Hurray for the solar flare.

Highlight of the game was taking down a demon prince with a 5 man squad of Vanguard lol.

Lost on victory points in the end by 1. Can’t win them all.

Anyone else tried Lucius and playing quite aggressive with deep strikes?

Hmm I don't know, it looks costly on CPs. And some codices have anti-DS stratagems that can erase your squad if you don't remember it. I prefer Stygies now that I've figured out that the only chance your infiltrating unit is in danger is by having the first turn taken on a 6 by your opponent. I managed to infiltrate 3 Dragoons today against Space Wolves, after the Destroyers and Neutron erased a few Dreadnoughts, I charged the 3 TW and the damaged Rhino, popped Conqueror Imperatives and killed them all. Most brutal Alpha strike ever done by myself. For his defence, he didn't have a good list at all, but he's playing with what he has. Felt good for destroying so much in one turn, but bad for my opponent, as I know what it feels like to be erased in one turn, too.

Poor space pup eh!

It is quite costly on CP. my first 2 units were free as I rolled 2x 6,s for monitor malevelous

I am abysmal at deployment and always seem to place my units in the worse possible position.

I need to get some more dragoons. Looking forward to Teleporting Lance squadron of doom!

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Don't be so sad about it being a LoW. GW does get big stuff. Baneblades and their ilk are fantastic this edition, though last edition I grant they were atrociously bad.

The Baneblade is the exception, not the rule.

Still, evidence they are getting a better handle on Lords of War. I think unifying them with other vehicles rather than having them be special snowflakes has really helped GW to sort them out.

Chapter Approved kinda says they aren't getting it.

Point to where, please.

FW stuff saw an across the board increase, not just for LoWs. For cripe's sake, the Tarantula Sentry Gun and Rapier Laser Destroyers saw points boosts.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

They don't do balanced box sets, so that isn't something I would factor in. Unless they really are cheap and just terrible - which their weapon load out makes me think they will be.

Uhh...yeah, they really do. Box sets like this tend to be fairly close in points.

I think people are forgetting, currently, that Necrons are slated for a Codex around the same time this book comes out so will likely see some points tweaks. We're also slated to see a March 'State of the Game' FAQ that may/may not adjust points on some stuff.

Well the garbage big stuff is still garbage after CA as most of it was not changed. That's enough proof, no?

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Don't be so sad about it being a LoW. GW does get big stuff. Baneblades and their ilk are fantastic this edition, though last edition I grant they were atrociously bad.

The Baneblade is the exception, not the rule.

Everyone has been crying about how OP my baneblade is.

gendoikari87 wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Don't be so sad about it being a LoW. GW does get big stuff. Baneblades and their ilk are fantastic this edition, though last edition I grant they were atrociously bad.

The Baneblade is the exception, not the rule.

Everyone has been crying about how OP my baneblade is.

And everyone with a Wraithknight is just crying.

My buddy swears by the Shadowsword + CC(5+/5+) + 2x primaris psykers supreme command detachment. The two psykers can either buff the shadowsword or smite. The SS is Valhallan so it doesn't degrade. CC gives the rerolls. If you go against a daemon primarch you basically auto win thanks to the vengeance for cadia stratagem that gives reroll hit and wound against chaos for only 1 CP.

Wulfey wrote:
My buddy swears by the Shadowsword + CC(5+/5+) + 2x primaris psykers supreme command detachment. The two psykers can either buff the shadowsword or smite. The SS is Valhallan so it doesn't degrade. CC gives the rerolls. If you go against a daemon primarch you basically auto win thanks to the vengeance for cadia stratagem that gives reroll hit and wound against chaos for only 1 CP.

I don't know, every time someone mentions the shadowsword I just feel like it's either going to be amazing or awful depending on who you face. Yeah, it's going to obliterate a primarch or a knight but if you face someone who doesn't have any one model worth more than a predator/leman russ it's going to be rough earning those points back. Isn't the answer always a baneblade as of right now?

PiñaColada wrote:

Wulfey wrote:
My buddy swears by the Shadowsword + CC(5+/5+) + 2x primaris psykers supreme command detachment. The two psykers can either buff the shadowsword or smite. The SS is Valhallan so it doesn't degrade. CC gives the rerolls. If you go against a daemon primarch you basically auto win thanks to the vengeance for cadia stratagem that gives reroll hit and wound against chaos for only 1 CP.

I don't know, every time someone mentions the shadowsword I just feel like it's either going to be amazing or awful depending on who you face. Yeah, it's going to obliterate a primarch or a knight but if you face someone who doesn't have any one model worth more than a predator/leman russ it's going to be rough earning those points back. Isn't the answer always a baneblade as of right now?

The baneblade kills things that other models in your army can kill. The Shadowsword kills things the other tanks can't. The big gun and the anti titan rules take it over the top. You don't need the weird artillery cannon in the hull.

Shadowswords can also have a ton of flamers or HB. It's the tank of all tanks

Wulfey wrote:
My buddy swears by the Shadowsword + CC(5+/5+) + 2x primaris psykers supreme command detachment. The two psykers can either buff the shadowsword or smite. The SS is Valhallan so it doesn't degrade. CC gives the rerolls. If you go against a daemon primarch you basically auto win thanks to the vengeance for cadia stratagem that gives reroll hit and wound against chaos for only 1 CP.

...this is evil and I want to do it. I sold my Shadowsword though.

How is a company commander giving it rerolls? Neither tank commanders nor infantry commanders can order a baneblade variant. Far as I know the only way to do that would be yarrick or harker