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Hi all! I'm a fairly new player to ad mech and a long tome lurker of the forum. You are a great community fellow priests!
Regarding the armingers.. Do we know its WS ? I fear that they'll have the same 4+ has my poor fistellans.
Cheers

MrKas wrote:
Hi all! I'm a fairly new player to ad mech and a long tome lurker of the forum. You are a great community fellow priests!
Regarding the armingers.. Do we know its WS ? I fear that they'll have the same 4+ has my poor fistellans.
Cheers

I would guess it is the same as a normal Knight. It isn't a robot, but an actual pilot.

That's what I'm hoping! But they didn't say it on community.. Doubt subsist... We need data

MrKas wrote:
That's what I'm hoping! But they didn't say it on community.. Doubt subsist... We need data

The only stuff we have that shoots at 4+ is stuff that is a Servitor or Robot. Everything mostly human is 3+. I think it is a safe assumption.

Sadly, it won't likely benefit from Cawl and a d3 Multimelta isn't exactly getting me hot and bothered. I'd rather take the Neutronager pretty much always.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

MrKas wrote:
That's what I'm hoping! But they didn't say it on community.. Doubt subsist... We need data

The only stuff we have that shoots at 4+ is stuff that is a Servitor or Robot. Everything mostly human is 3+. I think it is a safe assumption.

Sadly, it won't likely benefit from Cawl and a d3 Multimelta isn't exactly getting me hot and bothered. I'd rather take the Neutronager pretty much always.

I'll still prefer my neutronagers too but the rule of cool demands that we try our best to find a niche for the armigers. Failing so far. Their role overlap soo much with with what we already have.. It's frustrating.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

MrKas wrote:
That's what I'm hoping! But they didn't say it on community.. Doubt subsist... We need data

The only stuff we have that shoots at 4+ is stuff that is a Servitor or Robot. Everything mostly human is 3+. I think it is a safe assumption.

Sadly, it won't likely benefit from Cawl and a d3 Multimelta isn't exactly getting me hot and bothered. I'd rather take the Neutronager pretty much always.

What would get you hot and bothered?

Ideasweasel wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

MrKas wrote:
That's what I'm hoping! But they didn't say it on community.. Doubt subsist... We need data

The only stuff we have that shoots at 4+ is stuff that is a Servitor or Robot. Everything mostly human is 3+. I think it is a safe assumption.

Sadly, it won't likely benefit from Cawl and a d3 Multimelta isn't exactly getting me hot and bothered. I'd rather take the Neutronager pretty much always.

What would get you hot and bothered?

In context of this new baby knight? Not much. It doesn't fit in a role we can't already fill.

We need transports, flyers and some other rules fleshed out for existing models before we need this nonsense.

Okay stop with the WE business. Knights are not expressly mechanicus. They exist outside the mechanicus too. So the Armiger is filling a ton of roles

gendoikari87 wrote:
Okay stop with the WE business. Knights are not expressly mechanicus. They exist outside the mechanicus too. So the Armiger is filling a ton of roles

We aren't talking about other armies, we are talking about AdMech.

That being said, do enlighten me to a faction that will benefit from them? Marines have Dreads. IG has better options. I just don't see a need for these anywhere.

Wulfey wrote:
The real comparison would be the Redemptor dreadnaught. I think they both have 12 wounds? The guns are similar, but the Redemptor has more relevant dakka. Both have the same profile in combat. The armiger is faster and has a 5++ to shooting, but the Redemptor has access to real auras, strategems, and chapter tactics. The Redemptor is like 200 points, and is never seen in competitive play because it is bad. Under the GW pointing model, the Armiger should cost a little more than the Redemptor because it has an invul and is faster and is a Lord of War.

The Redemptor has +1 strength +1 wound and without the pod, can cost as little as 191 points for the plasma. The plasma gun and gatling and stormbolters far outclass the melta lance. The Redemptor fist is also D6 damage, so has a higher "average" damage output than the flat 3 of the Knight. The Relic Contemptor is a better starting point as it has more similarities than the Redemptor does in terms of weapon loadout and already has the 5++ costed in. The point still remains - if these are 200+ points, they just aren't worth it compared to everything else.


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 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
Okay stop with the WE business. Knights are not expressly mechanicus. They exist outside the mechanicus too. So the Armiger is filling a ton of roles

We aren't talking about other armies, we are talking about AdMech.

That being said, do enlighten me to a faction that will benefit from them? Marines have Dreads. IG has better options. I just don't see a need for these anywhere.

So, personally for me, my intention was running them with Custodes, if they were around the 150-170 mark. (well, when i say Custodes i obv mean soup ) Essentially it'd be 1000 points of supreme command Custodes, ~450-500 points of these high str "hopefully tank hunting" Knights and then a Guard battalion. All in all, the idea would give me 10 CP to play with (12 if you go for Creed - another option is Marines for Scouts and Librarians), and covers off some of the weaknesses of Custodes - namely limited long range high str weaponry, and limited ability to get CP. (list restriction of max of 1 each detachment)

However, as it stands, i'm not convinced. Hopefully they will release an all dakka version with a similar price range, but i think i'm being optimistic there. Everything will depend on the points and options.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Ideasweasel wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

MrKas wrote:
That's what I'm hoping! But they didn't say it on community.. Doubt subsist... We need data

The only stuff we have that shoots at 4+ is stuff that is a Servitor or Robot. Everything mostly human is 3+. I think it is a safe assumption.

Sadly, it won't likely benefit from Cawl and a d3 Multimelta isn't exactly getting me hot and bothered. I'd rather take the Neutronager pretty much always.

What would get you hot and bothered?

In context of this new baby knight? Not much. It doesn't fit in a role we can't already fill.

We need transports, flyers and some other rules fleshed out for existing models before we need this nonsense.

Oh machine god! A flier would be awesome, even if the rules were terrible if the model looked cool enough I would be sold. Could imagine some pretty funky things. Shame there isn’t any forgeworld ones is there


Automatically Appended Next Post:

gendoikari87 wrote:
Okay stop with the WE business. Knights are not expressly mechanicus. They exist outside the mechanicus too. So the Armiger is filling a ton of roles

I think ‘we’ works fine. This is an Admech forum thread unless I’ve taken a wrong turn at the last checkpoint

Entirely possible it’s been a long day

Yeah I guess the Contemptor is a better starting point. That is pathetic. I really want to like those armigers. I have 3 big knights. It would be cool to run mini knights. But yeah their stats really are just some kind of half assed contemptor.

Ideasweasel wrote:

Oh machine god! A flier would be awesome, even if the rules were terrible if the model looked cool enough I would be sold. Could imagine some pretty funky things. Shame there isn’t any forgeworld ones is there

I mean there is the quite nurgle-looking vultarax.. https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-SE/Mechanicum-Vultarax-Stratos-Automata
I also like the look of the drill they just teased yesterday and all the suggestions that if you're brave enough you can saw that thing in half and get two (one emerging & one descending)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kdash wrote:

The Redemptor has +1 strength +1 wound and without the pod, can cost as little as 191 points for the plasma. The plasma gun and gatling and stormbolters far outclass the melta lance. The Redemptor fist is also D6 damage, so has a higher "average" damage output than the flat 3 of the Knight. The Relic Contemptor is a better starting point as it has more similarities than the Redemptor does in terms of weapon loadout and already has the 5++ costed in. The point still remains - if these are 200+ points, they just aren't worth it compared to everything else.

Yeah but the relic contemptor also has a 6+++ FNP, which maybe isn't a huge deal but I feel that the fairest comparison is a normal contemptor beefed up 10%.

PiñaColada wrote:

Ideasweasel wrote:

Oh machine god! A flier would be awesome, even if the rules were terrible if the model looked cool enough I would be sold. Could imagine some pretty funky things. Shame there isn’t any forgeworld ones is there

I mean there is the quite nurgle-looking vultarax.. https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-SE/Mechanicum-Vultarax-Stratos-Automata
I also like the look of the drill they just teased yesterday and all the suggestions that if you're brave enough you can saw that thing in half and get two (one emerging & one descending)

Oh yeah I forgot about those, although I had in mind something beefier or even a flying transport vehicle

So I've been looking at potentially starting an Admec force. Are they as bad as people have been making out or is it people being hyperbolic?

fatbudda319 wrote:
So I've been looking at potentially starting an Admec force. Are they as bad as people have been making out or is it people being hyperbolic?

Competitively? Pretty awful.

For the hobby? Difficult but rewarding. Gorgeous line of models, albeit it a limited range. Fun to play in fun games, especially narratives.

fatbudda319 wrote:
So I've been looking at potentially starting an Admec force. Are they as bad as people have been making out or is it people being hyperbolic?

If you're looking to play regular games with fluffy lists, or even in somewhat serious but not over-the-top games, you'll find your happiness. The opinions in this thread are mostly exclusively about competitive play, tournaments and the likes, so you'll find some grim and salty statements about AdMech, as they are indeed poorly balanced for tournaments as a pure AdMech army. If you think a little while writing your lists, you'll have fun games against opponents with the same mindset.

fatbudda319 wrote:
So I've been looking at potentially starting an Admec force. Are they as bad as people have been making out or is it people being hyperbolic?

It seems to depend on your mode of play. I don't play in tournaments, I play with a group of friends who have a pretty wide variety of factions between them and my Ad Mech can hold their own most of the time. I certainly don't feel overpowered but usually feel like I can compete pretty well.

Hmmm.. my friends tend to play at the more competitive end of friendly if that makes any sense at all! Any recommendations for allies (other than sisters because unfortunately I dont quite have that kind of £££) that help shore them up a bit? As you guys say, they have some brilliant models.

Once more these small knights seem to be again part of other armies and not ad mech. I don't really see a reason to have offensive fast unit charging forth when clearly can't be supported from ad mech units. Canticles by default does not exists ad mech has no really stratagem amount to spare and no way to heal buff them etc. So no invu in cc I LL repeat is like throwing points to enemy for execution. We can't seem to hold with -2 dragoon stygies our lines they now decide to throw 200 points that rush and can't shoot advance and cannot charge it's a knight but can't deal with hordes . Rush forth but can't fall back and shoot engage something it's probably the worse unit in current meta. Who in the right mind exchange a moving shooting onger with d3 neutron shots at bs 3 reroll all invu rerolling ones etc. To get what ?? D3 str 8?? Moving be 4+ wtf and not ad mech. I really can't understand this . It's stupid as always

fatbudda319 wrote:
Hmmm.. my friends tend to play at the more competitive end of friendly if that makes any sense at all! Any recommendations for allies (other than sisters because unfortunately I dont quite have that kind of £££) that help shore them up a bit? As you guys say, they have some brilliant models.

I run mine with guard, mostly skitarii with infantry guard and leman russes. Works pretty well, especially good enough for a casual or somewhat tryhard casual meta.

As soon as the imperial knight codex comes out we can forget about this questor mechanicus nonsense and use the strategms and “dogmas’ that come with them. They dont work with admech, but at least we can have them benefit from similar rules within their own faction.

I dunno i could see a single armiger taking the overwatch hit for a pack of dragoons. But realistically id want a different weapon loadout. Dual plasma culverins would be nice, then we can forget how medoicre destroyers are and use armigers instead. I just wish theyd stop pushing knights as a pairing for admech when they clearly dont work rules wise. Fluffy? Hell yes, but the rules dont back up the storytelling.


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Unless the knight codex has stuff in it for questor mechanicus....thats a possibility i guess.

Octovol wrote:

Unless the knight codex has stuff in it for questor mechanicus....thats a possibility i guess.

I just assume that the knight codex keyword will be either questor imperialis or mechanicus and that you can choose either without consequence, as long as you don't mix within the detachment. Anything else feels both weird from a rules perspective and unfluffy.

If the knights were actually faction admech and had canticles then they would be great. There would be some reason to care about the reroll to hit in fight phase and weird melee strategems. But GW decided to pre-nerf codex admech to not apply to QUESTOR MECHANICUS. And put in special nerfs to keep the repairs from working as well as they do on guard tanks.

Wulfey wrote:
If the knights were actually faction admech and had canticles then they would be great. There would be some reason to care about the reroll to hit in fight phase and weird melee strategems. But GW decided to pre-nerf codex admech to not apply to QUESTOR MECHANICUS. And put in special nerfs to keep the repairs from working as well as they do on guard tanks.

Sure, that I agree with but I hope that all knights get a 10% price drop or so and better integration with our codex when their codex drops. That's perhaps not likely to happen but hopefully they understand there's little synergy to have here right now and that neither admech or knights are doing too hot and connect the dots.

fatbudda319 wrote:
So I've been looking at potentially starting an Admec force. Are they as bad as people have been making out or is it people being hyperbolic?

Certain parts of AdMech are great, especially Cawl+Kastelans and Dragoons. They convert CP into damage very efficiently. Crawlers are also the best anti-tank and anti-air specialist vehicles, with decent points cost, no move and shoot penalty, invulnerable save, and really big guns.

The rest of it sucks. Bad HQs, no transports, poor synergy, and some stuff is just outrageously overcosted...

Best you mix and match with Imperium. Bringing Guard for the CP recycling HQs and Basilisks is popular, as well as Space Marines for the scouts to create lots of distance between you and your enemy.

Right now my biggest gripe is that the 2nd enginseer in a batallion is beyond terrible. Basically you play 1900 vs 2000
Also you can't make 2x enginseer 3x troop battalions without wanting to end yourself due to literally throwing away 100 pts

It was okay pre-Codexes. But nowadays, alpha strike is way too fierce to out-tank stuff. =\

Let's assume Guardsman will be increased to 5ppm with the FAQ.
Would you stop using them and rely on Ranger / Vanguard for screening and objective grabbing?

I could see it happening, especially with graia and a TPD warlord for rerolling shoudspalsm.