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gendoikari87 wrote:
I think you guys are forgetting the armigers are move 14”. That means it’ll likely get to use it’s cc weapons, that or with 12 wounds and an invuln draw enough fire so that the knight (or B.B. in my case) survives

If you wanted to draw fire you're better off sending 3-4 dragoons or 2 beamer onager for the price of a mini knight. 3-4 dragoons will out melee a mini knight even without doctrina strategms and 2 dunecrawlers with beamers have double the firepower and more survivability.

They just dont work for us, all they really bring is style and 4 extra inches of movement.

Octovol wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
I think you guys are forgetting the armigers are move 14”. That means it’ll likely get to use it’s cc weapons, that or with 12 wounds and an invuln draw enough fire so that the knight (or B.B. in my case) survives

If you wanted to draw fire you're better off sending 3-4 dragoons or 2 beamer onager for the price of a mini knight. 3-4 dragoons will out melee a mini knight even without doctrina strategms and 2 dunecrawlers with beamers have double the firepower and more survivability.

They just dont work for us, all they really bring is style and 4 extra inches of movement.

Bingo.

Except dragoon’s can’t shoot and are gak in melee by comparison.

Play 6 Dragoons for CC, 2 Armigers for the tanks, and one Knight for the rest. You now have a walker list of doom ! Looks thematically nice in my head at least.

gendoikari87 wrote:
Except dragoon’s can’t shoot and are gak in melee by comparison.

Dragoons meet our melee needs. Neutronagers meet our shooting needs.

For about 40pt more, you get a pair of Dragoons and the Neutronager. All of which will be more durable and do overall better, even if the Dragoon melee isn't as potent (it is still solid though).

 Aaranis wrote:
Play 6 Dragoons for CC, 2 Armigers for the tanks, and one Knight for the rest. You now have a walker list of doom ! Looks thematically nice in my head at least.

What do you do with the spare 600 points?

Moooooar dragoons?

Cawl, a Techpriest and a few robots ? Need us those HQ taxes.

Dragoon melee not as potent? 1 dragoon with the strategem and rerolling 1s to hit generates 6 hits on average. The armiger generates 2.8 hits on average. The dragoon threatens 12 damage on str 8, -1. The armiger threatens 8.4 damage on str12, -3. Against anything less than T8, I would rather have the strategem backed dragoon. The meta is dominated by things with invul saves, so -3 is usually wasted points over -2 and -1. And don't even try and compare 1 armiger versus 2 dragoons. It is sad stuff. Like real feel bads.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If the march update doesn't nerf anything, I believe the following list with 2 variations is the strongest 'admech' list in a 2000 point ITC tournament.

MARS
Cawl + 1x4 dakkabots + 3x onagers (maybe 1x5 bots 2x onagers, and vary onager equips to taste)

SOUP
Celestine with 1Gem + Company commander (5+/5+) + 3x5 scout marine squads

Either:

STYGIES
Enginseer + 3x2 dragoons

CUSTODES
3x1 Shield captain on bike, 1 of them gets 3++ and RR charges relic

Wulfey wrote:
Dragoon melee not as potent? 1 dragoon with the strategem and rerolling 1s to hit generates 6 hits on average. The armiger generates 2.8 hits on average. The dragoon threatens 12 damage on str 8, -1. The armiger threatens 8.4 damage on str12, -3. Against anything less than T8, I would rather have the strategem backed dragoon. The meta is dominated by things with invul saves, so -3 is usually wasted points over -2 and -1. And don't even try and compare 1 armiger versus 2 dragoons. It is sad stuff. Like real feel bads.

Confirmed, against stuff such as Deathwing Knights with their 3++ you'll find Dragoons to be a nightmare to them with Conqueror Doctrina. Even better against Primaris and such.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
That is a surprise. I've run Arquebus since before the Codex and I must say, they almost always fail. Even with Cawl. Far too pricey for so little return.

Mine have been hit and miss. Some games they're MVP and others they do very little. I think if I'm going to give them a fair shake I need to run say 3 units, but that feels like a significant investment for such a small squad. At least they pull AT almost as well as they can snipe, I feel like there's rarely a situation where they don't have at least some sort of useful Target on the table.

One thing I don't know if people have tried, but I've found my skitarii worked well as an addition to my foot guard lists. Skitarii in that situation essentially function as Carapace vets from previous editions. So your bulk is infantry squads, with a few vanguard squads toting plasma and a few ranger squads with arquebuses to sit in the back and ping characters or vehicles. Then you run a mix of Leman Russes and Onagers in the back depending on what you feel you need. I like Neutron lasers but have been meaning to get a couple Icarus arrays to test as well. The skitarii do a good job of hedging your bets against -1 armies and more elite targets while the guard provide CP, bulk firepower, and numbers. Probably not something you'd take to ITC but there was a time at my local store before I owned a lot of russe's where I ran it and did quite well against everything from guilleman Marines (back when they were good) to when eldar first dropped.

I have tried running a Stygies BN added to my Catachan guard army. The rangers and a unit of breachers sat in the back with my artillery/tanks and maintained OBJ control in the backfield while they also formed a last line of defense as all of my Catachans ran forward. It seemed to work out really well. The dominus and Tech Priest healed plenty of stuff and provided rerolls to my Rangers and Breachers pretty well. I really liked the Breachers ability to take out heavy infantry that either dropped in or fought through my flashlights and allowed my battle tanks to keep shooting tougher targets. They could also hang in there if charged whereas guardsmen just melt to just about anything. Just my 2 cents.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
That is a surprise. I've run Arquebus since before the Codex and I must say, they almost always fail. Even with Cawl. Far too pricey for so little return.

Mine have been hit and miss. Some games they're MVP and others they do very little. I think if I'm going to give them a fair shake I need to run say 3 units, but that feels like a significant investment for such a small squad. At least they pull AT almost as well as they can snipe, I feel like there's rarely a situation where they don't have at least some sort of useful Target on the table.

I run two min squads of rangers with 2 arquebuses (arquebi?) and auspexes. Their damage is hit or miss but the best use I've found them for is the psychological. A lot of people are really scared to move characters into their line of fire, and you perch them way back on some high terrain, they can hit nearly the whole table. I use them more as a deterrent than a killing tool.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
I run two min squads of rangers with 2 arquebuses (arquebi?) and auspexes. Their damage is hit or miss but the best use I've found them for is the psychological. A lot of people are really scared to move characters into their line of fire, and you perch them way back on some high terrain, they can hit nearly the whole table. I use them more as a deterrent than a killing tool.

Arquebuses. And good players won't be afraid to move characters around. The important characters, like Company Commanders, won't be visible ever anyway.

That being said, two minimum squads is probably the way to go.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, off-topic, but I could use some opinions about my Battle Pilgrim Scouts:



Gray or black? Maybe a darker gray? Hard to decide. >_<

The armor is metallic black, and I am doing some silver, brass, and leather bits as I go, but I am stuck on the color of the pants and sleeves.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:


One thing I don't know if people have tried, but I've found my skitarii worked well as an addition to my foot guard lists. Skitarii in that situation essentially function as Carapace vets from previous editions. So your bulk is infantry squads, with a few vanguard squads toting plasma and a few ranger squads with arquebuses to sit in the back and ping characters or vehicles. Then you run a mix of Leman Russes and Onagers in the back depending on what you feel you need. I like Neutron lasers but have been meaning to get a couple Icarus arrays to test as well. The skitarii do a good job of hedging your bets against -1 armies and more elite targets while the guard provide CP, bulk firepower, and numbers. Probably not something you'd take to ITC but there was a time at my local store before I owned a lot of russe's where I ran it and did quite well against everything from guilleman Marines (back when they were good) to when eldar first dropped.

I also ran this combination a few times and I think both parts complement each other very well. You get Infantry Squads for board control, anti infantry and to take some charges and Vanguard for some heavy punch. But I wouldn´t mix Leman Russes and Crawlers tbh cause there is no real synergy between them imo.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, off-topic, but I could use some opinions about my Battle Pilgrim Scouts:



Gray or black? Maybe a darker gray? Hard to decide. >_<

The armor is metallic black, and I am doing some silver, brass, and leather bits as I go, but I am stuck on the color of the pants and sleeves.

Icarus crawlers bring a flavor of shooting that guard doesn't have. Guard doens't have access to high BS anti flier shooting. And icarus can get that +2 to hit strategem when you really need that eldar unit hit. If you have a guard brigade, 3x crawlers and a TPD or enginseer covers bases that guard cant match.

Agreed. My army is built around Cawlstar, Basilisks, Icarus Crawlers, and Dragoons. All of these things complement one another in some way. Cawlstar handles virtually anything; Basilisk handles hidden enemies; Icarus Crawlers handle enemy mobile units; and Dragoons create backfield pressure and act as counter-chargers.

https://goo.gl/NZhsMf

Knights with moar dakka.

And holy @#$%. Plastic Sisters?!

...in 2019

Suzuteo wrote:
https://goo.gl/NZhsMf

Knights with moar dakka.

And holy @#$%. Plastic Sisters?!

...in 2019

Pumped for a real Knight Codex. They better fix the points too. I have so many just sitting around because they aren't viable in 8th.

I have two kits just gathering dust because I am not sure if I want to sell them or not. I guess I can wait a little longer...

Hopefully the new knights codex will have some questor mechanicus rules.

Interesting the knight has a 1000% upscaled plasma calliver. No idea if it's profile will mirror it's smaller skitarii cousin but just found that interesting they went with that design compared to the newer "I can't believe it's not Tau!" design the primaris dread got

Looks like I will be splitting my cash between two armies. Shame there isn’t a sensible way to run Admech and knights in games 2k or below

 kastelen wrote:
Hopefully the new knights codex will have some questor mechanicus rules.

Or just good rules overall so I can run some Knights in 40k and not just 30k.

They need to all drop by quite a bit in points to be doable though. Fitting 5 Knights at 2k should be doable without losing potency. But GW seems incapable of pricing big stuff properly, so I am not holding my breath.

It'll be about 800 pts and it'll have base knight stats. It'll be awsome, trust me

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
It'll be about 800 pts and it'll have base knight stats. It'll be awsome, trust me

We are all so salty here. I can't imagine why!

Went through all major tournaments of march. Wow. AdMech are DONE. Dead. Deathwatch levels of dead.

yes they're staying on my shelf until a good team tournament where they can do well

They're fine in more casual settings though, really. You still have to think for a good list, but you can use more than Cawl and Robots at least. Not Ruststalkers and Servitors though, I still wonder why Servitors still exist at this point. Even a Cherubim is more useful.

But it's true I'm tired of the current state of AdMech too, I started painting my Dark Angels successors to get them some games. There's way more viable lists one can build with this faction.

9 days left for the March FAQ. I'm betting they'll release it alongside the T'au FAQ.

GW said March FAQ is ready and waiting until Adepticon finishes.