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Ill start!

Evil suns
Vehicles cost half points for evil suns, in addition they move an extra inch, and reroll advance dice.

Warlord trait: Extra gubbins. Big Mek only. Wheeled vehicles ignore wounds on a 5+, as unnecessary parts are blasted off instead. Trakked and walker vehicles save on a 6+

Strategim: wez da fastest! 1cp. At the beginning of the ork players first turn, set up a vehicle within 6 inches of a board edge, and farther than 9 from an enemy!

Relic: Da bike of da orkpocalypse! Replaces a bike. Rider gains +1T, +1 W. Da deffdakka gunz. Str 7, 6 shots, ap -3 1 damage each. Can overcharge for str 8 2 damage, on hit rolls of one, rider suffers a mortal wound.

None of that is broken....at all. I mean seriously. The most broken aspect is half priced vehicles...and even then that is more realistic for their usefulness then anything. Ironically, Trukkz would still cost MORE then they did last edition, Battlewagons though would be almost usable as transports at 80pts a piece.

Having a 53€ model cost 80 points isn't a great idea. I think Orks need something like a 20-30% point reduction in all or near all (Ignoring boyz and stormboyz) of their models, and something like a 15-25% increase in offensive and deffensive capabilities.

Hyperbole: The Thread

SemperMortis wrote:None of that is broken....at all. I mean seriously. The most broken aspect is half priced vehicles...and even then that is more realistic for their usefulness then anything. Ironically, Trukkz would still cost MORE then they did last edition, Battlewagons though would be almost usable as transports at 80pts a piece.

Even at half price, unless the vehicle transport capacity is 30 models, I can't say that ork transports would be good.

Fundamentally, the transport needs to fit the unit that needs transporting to be useful.

Battlewagons can be useful platforms from Flashgitz or Lootas and are half-okay as a gun platform. As I understand, the second place list in my local league ran one and used it for everything except transporting things, and it won him a game or two.

I'm uh... I'm just gonna sit here impressed as people argue a 16 W vehicle with 20 model transport capacity is balanced at 80 points. Oh, and wth access to 5+ fnp on every single one in the army with a WT.

I mean, I suppose if you want ungodly tough transports that will never fail to deliver their cargo, has enough space to fit in a green tide of boyz, and can grab a defrolla to do some damage when it's charges to soak overwatch, be my guest. Run a few games like that. I really want to hear how it goes

 Galas wrote:
Having a 53€ model cost 80 points isn't a great idea. I think Orks need something like a 20-30% point reduction in all or near all (Ignoring boyz and stormboyz) of their models, and something like a 15-25% increase in offensive and deffensive capabilities.

Obviously have never seen the points cost of most of our stuff. It costs £90 for a full squad of storm boyz for example.

Ermmm in terms of broken rules... I've mentioned many rules that people said were broken. I offered giving a 370pts mdoel bs4+ and 6d6 shots but nope... too op... shame gw didn't think that as they gave it to all ig heavies and also reduced their points! Therefore, i now suggest the new Morkanaut! 300pts, 6d26 weapon that deals a flat d3 each shot! In edition it has Bs4, can advance and fire, ws2+ and it's claw is 6 damage flat.

I think an ork truck should be balanced by increasing its weapon skill and number of attacks. Make it a useful part of an ork assault force.

Or How about if orks can fight in melee from inside a trukk?

 argonak wrote:
I think an ork truck should be balanced by increasing its weapon skill and number of attacks. Make it a useful part of an ork assault force.

Or How about if orks can fight in melee from inside a trukk?

Fighting from inside the truk would be amazing. It could absorb overwatch and shooting wagons with 20 bpyz could ward off woukd be deep strikes!

Also how about our battlewagon fires 40 shots, hits on 2 and rerolls 1!

SemperMortis wrote:
None of that is broken....at all. I mean seriously. The most broken aspect is half priced vehicles...and even then that is more realistic for their usefulness then anything. Ironically, Trukkz would still cost MORE then they did last edition, Battlewagons though would be almost usable as transports at 80pts a piece.

Half price vehicles would be pretty broken Gorkanauts for 180ish points would be amazingly powerful. Especially with 6+ fnp, and the ability to outflank. I'll take 8 in a list and be pretty happy with my turn 1 charges.

For every ork slain the ork player rolls 2d6. A turn later that many orks are deployed where the ork was slain.
OP and fluffy, the worse type of OP.

Also, what's wrong with then IG dex, and when did it get released?
Because I thought the ad mech and DG codices just came out recently.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
For every ork slain the ork player rolls 2d6. A turn later that many orks are deployed where the ork was slain.
OP and fluffy, the worse type of OP.

Also, what's wrong with then IG dex, and when did it get released?
Because I thought the ad mech and DG codices just came out recently.

It's on preorder.

The thread is born of typical hysteria. I'm going to point out that the changes to the Imperial Guard include nerfs to almost all the good units and buffs to most of the bad units, but the buffed bad units are still not as good as current good units. The only good units that got made better are the super heavy units.


We also got regimental doctrines, and the Mordian one is pissing people off, because it improves our overwatch

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
The thread is born of typical hysteria. I'm going to point out that the changes to the Imperial Guard include nerfs to almost all the good units and buffs to most of the bad units, but the buffed bad units are still not as good as current good units. The only good units that got made better are the super heavy units.


We also got regimental doctrines, and the Mordian one is pissing people off, because it improves our overwatch

Really? Boy this is some intellectual dishonesty. A single good unit suffered a meaningful nerf, others were left stronger post codex. Already solid units were buffed for questionable reasons (basilisks). Plus it has many direct upgrades over previous codices, from directly superior WT and relics, to getting doctrines on everything, even super heavies.

Oh and the last time you claimed hysteria, we were 100% right. So you really need to just stop.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
For every ork slain the ork player rolls 2d6. A turn later that many orks are deployed where the ork was slain.
OP and fluffy, the worse type of OP.

Make it happen during the combat phase, so they literally spring up around a unit and start swinging.

SilverAlien wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
The thread is born of typical hysteria. I'm going to point out that the changes to the Imperial Guard include nerfs to almost all the good units and buffs to most of the bad units, but the buffed bad units are still not as good as current good units. The only good units that got made better are the super heavy units.


We also got regimental doctrines, and the Mordian one is pissing people off, because it improves our overwatch

Really? Boy this is some intellectual dishonesty. A single good unit suffered a meaningful nerf, others were left stronger post codex. Already solid units were buffed for questionable reasons (basilisks). Plus it has many direct upgrades over previous codices, from directly superior WT and relics, to getting doctrines on everything, even super heavies.

Oh and the last time you claimed hysteria, we were 100% right. So you really need to just stop.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
For every ork slain the ork player rolls 2d6. A turn later that many orks are deployed where the ork was slain.
OP and fluffy, the worse type of OP.

Make it happen during the combat phase, so they literally spring up around a unit and start swinging.

Basilisks are good? I must have missed it, because they're not.

Manticores are better, and are still better, and I haven't heard anything about Manticore changes.

In fact, that's my answer here to everything: Manticores are still better than all the buffed units, and post-nerf Conscripts and Scions are still better than other options. There's almost no way the Guard got better.




And yes, the original complaining was entirely the hysteria of marine players, and it still is.

MOAR DAKKA
1 CP - The targetted unit immediately makes a shooting attack that hits on 6s regardless of modifiers.

Oi! get Over 'ere!
2CP - During the movement phase, select one Ork Warboss Character Model. Any Ork Infantry units within 6" immediately move towards that model and combine into a single HQ unit and are treated as such for the rest of the game.

Kollection Of Hats
Special relic set for Freebootaz. Only one model in your army may have a Kollection of Hats. A model may be equipped with more than one Hat from a Kollection of Hats. Only one hat may be used per player turn.

Kommisar hat
Once per enemy turn you can inflict d3 mortal wounds on one of your units within 6". This unit may then make a move, shoot or charge action.

Inkwisitor Hat
Any Burnaz within 12" of the model equipped with this hat double the random result of attacks made. If shooting at a unit with the Psyker keyword, these attacks are resolved as +3 S.

Admiral's Hat
Once per game, pick an objective marker on the battle field. All units within 3d6 of the objective take d3 mortal wounds.

Blue Beaky Bonce
Whenever an opponent uses a strategem roll a d6; on a 6 you gain 1 command point.

Red Beaky Bonce
Affects all friendly units within 3" of the equipped model for the rest of the turn. Add 1 to movement characteristic. Any doubles rolled for charges inflict 1 mortal wound on both the charged unit and the unit that charged.

Green Beaky Bonce
Use when a model within 3" of the bearer rolls a 1 for armor save. The unit the model belongs to takes 1 mortal wound.

Gribbly Krown
Models within 12" may use the equipped model's leadership characteristic. The first time this model is affected by a psychic power (friend or foe) the source of the psychic power takes 1 mortal wound.

Panzee Pointy Bits
Use during the fight phase. Modify the equipped models Attack characteristic by d6 for this turn. If 4 or more 1s are rolled to-hit, your opponent may set up the equipped model anywhere on the battlefield.

SilverAlien wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
For every ork slain the ork player rolls 2d6. A turn later that many orks are deployed where the ork was slain.
OP and fluffy, the worse type of OP.

Make it happen during the combat phase, so they literally spring up around a unit and start swinging.

That would be hilarious. I want that as a strategem now, the salt would be delicious.

 malamis wrote:
MOAR DAKKA
1 CP - The targetted unit immediately makes a shooting attack that hits on 6s regardless of modifiers.

Oh that'd be amazing. Take a huge unit of looters and spam this is every phase for the first turn, regardless of who goes first. Get 300 shots by the end of the first turn. I could actually see something like this being balanced with a higher cost or a once per turn limit for orks. Bit more than the admech one lol.

For anyone who doesn't know, the admech codex was so poorly proof read they accidentally gave us this stratagem, except we hit on normal BS.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Manticores are better, and are still better, and I haven't heard anything about Manticore changes.

So you haven't bothered to look at the doctrines in the new codex I assume? Or you are forgetting manticores were already upper tier compared to the vehicles that largely didn't get CT equivalents.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
The thread is born of typical hysteria. I'm going to point out that the changes to the Imperial Guard include nerfs to almost all the good units and buffs to most of the bad units, but the buffed bad units are still not as good as current good units. The only good units that got made better are the super heavy units.


We also got regimental doctrines, and the Mordian one is pissing people off, because it improves our overwatch

Really? Boy this is some intellectual dishonesty. A single good unit suffered a meaningful nerf, others were left stronger post codex. Already solid units were buffed for questionable reasons (basilisks). Plus it has many direct upgrades over previous codices, from directly superior WT and relics, to getting doctrines on everything, even super heavies.

Oh and the last time you claimed hysteria, we were 100% right. So you really need to just stop.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
For every ork slain the ork player rolls 2d6. A turn later that many orks are deployed where the ork was slain.
OP and fluffy, the worse type of OP.

Make it happen during the combat phase, so they literally spring up around a unit and start swinging.

Basilisks are good? I must have missed it, because they're not.

Manticores are better, and are still better, and I haven't heard anything about Manticore changes.

In fact, that's my answer here to everything: Manticores are still better than all the buffed units, and post-nerf Conscripts and Scions are still better than other options. There's almost no way the Guard got better.




And yes, the original complaining was entirely the hysteria of marine players, and it still is.

Not trying to derail this thread too much but Guard absolutely got better in about every way. Conscripts took a nerf in ways that didn't even really matter. They are still dirt cheap screening units used as fodder but are even arguably BETTER with the free tactics. Punisher Lemans are going to dominate with heavy bolters by throwing out near 50 S5 shots a turn. Guard now have their tactics and stratagems that have meaningfully increased their already amazing firepower. Points buffs and nerfs just means everything practically evened out. About the only change is you will see less plasma squads. Otherwise, now you are going to see Guard armies with a ton of cheap screening units mixed with a ton of T8 armor. That's about the best way to make an army since it will be very difficult to deal with both for an army.

Everything is half price.

Enjoy 3 pt Boyz.

 Frozocrone wrote:
Everything is half price.

Enjoy 3 pt Boyz.

At this point you coukd give us 3pt boyz and we probably would still lose. XD
In all honesty, I think gw has no idea what to do with orks. I think they just don't understand them and that's why the index is such a mess... they tried things with one unit but forgot to do it with another unit and ended up with a lot of meh.

Knowing gw boyz will be 12pts in yhe codex as everything doubles in price but we lose our 30 moral. Remember, for every 1 boyz there is 2 conscripts (which doesn't make sense lore wise).

GW should do something with Orks like -1 pt per model for every 10 models in a unit.

 lolman1c wrote:

 argonak wrote:
I think an ork truck should be balanced by increasing its weapon skill and number of attacks. Make it a useful part of an ork assault force.

Or How about if orks can fight in melee from inside a trukk?

Fighting from inside the truk would be amazing. It could absorb overwatch and shooting wagons with 20 bpyz could ward off woukd be deep strikes!

Also how about our battlewagon fires 40 shots, hits on 2 and rerolls 1!

Maybe not fighting from inside the trukk, but charging with the trukk and then dismounting into combat feels like both something flavourful for Orks and an interesting game mechanic to allow an assault army to use something that gets them past overwatch.
Obviously, if the Overwatch somehow managed to wreck the trukk, hilarious failure would ensue. The riled up Orks inside start punching eachother or something.

In the fourth edition the boarding blanks let you have one embarked model attack a nearby vehicle. This was basicly to allow your power klaw to to slap someone's rhino upside the tread, but bringing that back and allowing it to target anything, even if it's still just one model, would be amazing.

Being able to assault out of a trukk that's in assault would be pretty good as part of the Evil Sunz Clan Ability

Lootin' Time: (2 CP). Use this stratagem when an enemy Vehicle is destroyed within 6" of a Mek and does not Explode. The Ork player removes the Mek, and takes control of formerly destroyed vehicle for the remainder of the game, with the exception that it now has a BS of 5+ and WS of 3+. The vehicle restores its full complement of Wounds, but suffers -1 to its Save due to the nature of its "repairs".

Sneaky Bike (0 CP): Hold one Ork Character in Reserve. When Snikrot's unit comes on the table, that character may also arrive alongside it.
A throwback to the infamous exploit of 4th and 5th edition, where Snikrot technically didn't use Outflank.

'The Green tide': When the Orks call a Waagh they charge into combat with their guns blazing. On a successful charge the Orks can fire their shooting weapons into the unit hitting on a 6+.

Tank Bustas no longer require line of sight to hit their targets, have a 72" range, and hit on a 4+ regardless of the target.

Stratagem: Multiply. 2CP. Return an Ork unit to life that has died this game. It must enter from your table edge and 9" away from enemy models.

It's pretty sad that even what people are fabricating still wouldn't put Orks on the same level as guard.

Horde CC <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Horde shooting.


#endofthread

 Marmatag wrote:
Tank Bustas no longer require line of sight to hit their targets, have a 72" range, and hit on a 4+ regardless of the target.

Stratagem: Multiply. 2CP. Return an Ork unit to life that has died this game. It must enter from your table edge and 9" away from enemy models.

It's pretty sad that even what people are fabricating still wouldn't put Orks on the same level as guard.

You wanna get real sad?

Guard can probably do horde melee better than orks can right now.

That seems... unlikely.

Martel732 wrote:
That seems... unlikely.

Catachan conscripts swing at str 4, 5+ WS but they cost half as much as an ork. They have one attack base, another with a 30 point preacher, a third if in straken's bubble, and they have a 50/50 shot at getting a second round of attacks in their shooting phase with fix bayonets.

Also, given they trade toughness 4 for a 5+ and cost half as much, you'll have a lot more of them left when you reach the enemy.

They may not be quite as good, but you've gotta admit that's still pretty close.