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So, in the movie they hint at the Old Gods were dead. Steppenwolf and his team are the New Gods.

Does the DCEU/Comics talk about that in any detail? Is there a hardback collection I should be looking for? Want happened to Artemis and Zeus and so forth.

Wonder Woman explains where Zeus and Co got to, they were taken out by Ares. I imagine Aquaman will have a similar explanation of what became of Atlantis as a civilisation.

 Mr Morden wrote:

I quite enjoyed his Luthor

Intrigued to know what you liked as I hated every moment he was on screen.

I liked the fact he was clearly very intelligent and educated, but increasingly unhinged and tended to spill into maniacal strand of consciousness. I liked him being chaotic, cunning and over the top. I really don’t take the films too seriously, maybe he’s not like how he is in the comics, but who cares? To many characters are forgettable in DC films, he at least stood out.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
To many characters are forgettable in DC films, he at least stood out.

Oh, really?

They could quite easily go into, for example...

"Poseidon, knowing his death at the hand of Areas was inevitable, entrusted his greatest weapon, his trident to those that would guard his realm after he was gone. - The people of Atlantis, who took over the stewardship of the seas, until the day that Poseidon would return again..."


The thing is, with Gods, they don't really have a tendency to stay dead. Particularly, if, for example, if there is actually a God of the Dead...

It wouldn't surprise me if eventually they do a thing of having the Gods being freed from their imprisonment in Tartarus by Wonder Woman 3 or so.

 Easy E wrote:
So, in the movie they hint at the Old Gods were dead. Steppenwolf and his team are the New Gods.

Does the DCEU/Comics talk about that in any detail? Is there a hardback collection I should be looking for? Want happened to Artemis and Zeus and so forth.

I'm not sure what's going on in the WW books at the moment, but at least until fairly recently the Greek gods weren't dead in the comics.

Are you familiar with Jack Kirby's Fourth World/New Gods stuff? It was originally its own thing, and doesn't directly tie into the DC universe's Greek gods.

If you want some great stuff involving the DC Greek gods, look for the trade paperbacks of Brian Azzarello's run on WW. I think that would be issues 1-35 of Wonder Woman during the New 52 era. It's the best run on the character ever IMO. Part of the strength of it is that it builds a family of sorts of gods and demigods (including one New God) around Diana. And so many of those gods and demigods are great characters, presented in very creative ways.

@LunarSol -- Agreed on the lightning, although I guess Jenkins figured he was also a child of Zeus?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Compel wrote:
The thing is, with Gods, they don't really have a tendency to stay dead. Particularly, if, for example, if there is actually a God of the Dead...

It wouldn't surprise me if eventually they do a thing of having the Gods being freed from their imprisonment in Tartarus by Wonder Woman 3 or so.

Agreed that they may return. It was a mistake to 'kill' them IMO, just because Azzarello's run showed how interesting Diana's relationships with her divine brothers and sisters could be.

I've been reading Wonder Woman Rebirth.

As it stands, the Greek Gods are kind of around. There's a few wandering about, various ones are imprisoned and so on.

Overall, it looks like Diana's "patrons" are either staying on Mount Olympus, or bound to there in some way. - While they do interact with her, they're essentially avatars.

EG

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
To many characters are forgettable in DC films, he at least stood out.

Oh, really?

Well in the modern continuity. I enjoy the older films, Batman Returns especially, even though Danny Devito’s Penguin is not like that of the comics.

Kind of an interesting article here.

http://www.elfanboy.com/blog/el-fanboy-exclusive-dc-films-betting-big-on-the-legion-of-doom-moving-forward

Not sure how good the guy's sources are, although the dude at Batman on Film seems to vouch for him (although HIS sources aren't quite what they used to be either). Main takeaways for me:

- WB knew JL had issues, but the not-too-bad second weekend drop gives them hope they can break even.
- They aren't worried about what Zack Snyder fans think.
- They know that the Deathstroke/Luthor post-credit sequence has been well-received, and are looking to make the formation of a Legion of Doom/Injustice League the connective tissue for the next round of DC films.

The last item is kinda interesting as an inversion of what Marvel did with the Avengers. So presumably the post-credit sequences would be about the bad guys recruiting and forming up, similar to Marvel's Nick Fury sequences. If true, I think it shows that they learned what Marvel figured out a long time ago -- namely, that moving connective tissue scenes mid- and post-credits helps keep the film itself a lot cleaner. BvS, I'm looking at you.

Regarding the first item, I do think the evidence points to WB giving up on JL to a certain degree, and instead focusing on making sure it put the characters in a better place for future films.

Deathstroke is an inherently good character for Warner, because he's basically anti-Batman. While he's dark and gritty and human, he turns the Batman thing on its head by having a family that he cares about.

Gawds, I hope we see Rose and her bestie Raven...

Building up toward Legion of Doom instead of Avengers sounds like a really interesting idea, I'd be down to see how that pans out. Luthor himself is going to be a huge issue with that for me personally, I just can't take Jesse Eisenberg seriously as a villain. He doesn't have the presence needed to be the core of that idea.

 creeping-deth87 wrote:
Building up toward Legion of Doom instead of Avengers sounds like a really interesting idea, I'd be down to see how that pans out. Luthor himself is going to be a huge issue with that for me personally, I just can't take Jesse Eisenberg seriously as a villain. He doesn't have the presence needed to be the core of that idea.

Agreed - he is the consistent (very) weak point of the films - either ditch the actor and get someone who understands the character or direct him correctly but his Loopy Lex will always drag the films down as it currently being portrayed (I use the word generously).

No idea who Deathstroke is so interested to see what he is in the film universe.

 Mr Morden wrote:

No idea who Deathstroke is so interested to see what he is in the film universe.

Think Cable's brain inside Deadpool's body and you've got a decent start.

Deadpool himself was originally just a blatant ripoff of the character. The goofball persona was added later; the version Rob Liefield made was more or less a carbon copy. They even essentially have the same real name (Deathstroke is Slade Wilson).

More like Deathstroke is a copy of Deadpool. DC naming their guy "Slade Wilson" instead of "Wade Wilson" is a dead giveaway. >.>

As noted before, Deathstroke is more like an evil Batman, to put it in shorthand...

I finally saw Justice League last night. As others have said, I found it to be... OK. Not great, but not awful.

I was concerned from those screenshots I saw that they had replaced Patti Jenkin's version of the Amazons with a sexified version, but I agree with what I've read here: the only reason a few Amazons have exposed bellies is to show off their sick-ass abs as they lift that wall. Exactly the kind of power fantasy male heroes have had since they first comic.

Steppenwulf was OK, but kind of bland. I never really understood his motivations very well. He wants the infinity stones mother boxes, which by the way have a stupid name, so he can have super power, which he will use to impress death to turn earth into a hellscape so he can... leave? This is his schtick, he remakes a planet and leaves? OK.

Henry Cavill's lip wasn't as bad as I feared. Cyborg was better than I expected, although I wonder why an advanced AI that can do essentially technological wizardry can't turn down his LEDs so he can go shopping.

There were some really immersion breaking bad writing parts, though. "You smell good"??? My wife and I immediately looked at each other and started laughing. There was a second one which I can't recall now that was equally bad.

Kinda want to see more of Aquaman now.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
More like Deathstroke is a copy of Deadpool. DC naming their guy "Slade Wilson" instead of "Wade Wilson" is a dead giveaway. >.>

Its the other way around, Deathstroke premiered in 1980, Deadpool in 1991 in the comics

Steppenwolf's original motivation was simply attack Earth and convert it into a hellscape (Presumably, though it was never said in the film, as a prelude for fuel for Apokalips).

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
More like Deathstroke is a copy of Deadpool. DC naming their guy "Slade Wilson" instead of "Wade Wilson" is a dead giveaway. >.>

Its the other way around, Deathstroke premiered in 1980, Deadpool in 1991 in the comics

Deadpool came out in 2016 and Deathstroke only just appeared.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
More like Deathstroke is a copy of Deadpool. DC naming their guy "Slade Wilson" instead of "Wade Wilson" is a dead giveaway. >.>

Its the other way around, Deathstroke premiered in 1980, Deadpool in 1991 in the comics

Deadpool came out in 2016 and Deathstroke only just appeared.

I don’t think he realized you were joking. I thought the shifty eyes were a dead giveaway.

 Ouze wrote:
Cyborg was better than I expected, although I wonder why an advanced AI that can do essentially technological wizardry can't turn down his LEDs so he can go shopping.

Something I neglected to mention before is that while the (obvious reshoot) scene at the end with Vic and his dad is a small thing, it shows you how the studio feels about Snyder's contribution. It's not often that they scrap a character's intended costume/look by the end of the movie in which he/she is introduced. It's like the ending is itself is an expression of the studio moving away from the original director's vision.

There were some really immersion breaking bad writing parts, though. "You smell good"??? My wife and I immediately looked at each other and started laughing. There was a second one which I can't recall now that was equally bad.

Actually, I get it. It's about the way you miss the smell of a person when they're gone. The writer was just a little too cute with the line.

 Compel wrote:
Steppenwolf's original motivation was simply attack Earth and convert it into a hellscape (Presumably, though it was never said in the film, as a prelude for fuel for Apokalips).

Yeah, he was just paving the way for Darkseid in JL Part 2, which, um...

 LunarSol wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

No idea who Deathstroke is so interested to see what he is in the film universe.

Think Cable's brain inside Deadpool's body and you've got a decent start.

Deadpool himself was originally just a blatant ripoff of the character. The goofball persona was added later; the version Rob Liefield made was more or less a carbon copy. They even essentially have the same real name (Deathstroke is Slade Wilson).

It’s hardly a ripoff if it’s clearly a parody.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

No idea who Deathstroke is so interested to see what he is in the film universe.

Think Cable's brain inside Deadpool's body and you've got a decent start.

Deadpool himself was originally just a blatant ripoff of the character. The goofball persona was added later; the version Rob Liefield made was more or less a carbon copy. They even essentially have the same real name (Deathstroke is Slade Wilson).

It’s hardly a ripoff if it’s clearly a parody.

Not sure how the original stuff is clearly a parody?

 gorgon wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
Cyborg was better than I expected, although I wonder why an advanced AI that can do essentially technological wizardry can't turn down his LEDs so he can go shopping.

Something I neglected to mention before is that while the (obvious reshoot) scene at the end with Vic and his dad is a small thing, it shows you how the studio feels about Snyder's contribution. It's not often that they scrap a character's intended costume/look by the end of the movie in which he/she is introduced. It's like the ending is itself is an expression of the studio moving away from the original director's vision.

There were some really immersion breaking bad writing parts, though. "You smell good"??? My wife and I immediately looked at each other and started laughing. There was a second one which I can't recall now that was equally bad.

Actually, I get it. It's about the way you miss the smell of a person when they're gone. The writer was just a little too cute with the line.

 Compel wrote:
Steppenwolf's original motivation was simply attack Earth and convert it into a hellscape (Presumably, though it was never said in the film, as a prelude for fuel for Apokalips).

Yeah, he was just paving the way for Darkseid in JL Part 2, which, um...

Which can still happen. Loki failed Thanos in Avengers. In Avengers 3.5 (CW was really Avengers 3), he’s finally coming to town. Darkseid can show up when he’s ready.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
More like Deathstroke is a copy of Deadpool. DC naming their guy "Slade Wilson" instead of "Wade Wilson" is a dead giveaway. >.>

Its the other way around, Deathstroke premiered in 1980, Deadpool in 1991 in the comics

Deadpool came out in 2016 and Deathstroke only just appeared.

Deathstroke came out in 2012 (He's a reoccurring character on Arrow)

 LunarSol wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

No idea who Deathstroke is so interested to see what he is in the film universe.

Think Cable's brain inside Deadpool's body and you've got a decent start.

Deadpool himself was originally just a blatant ripoff of the character. The goofball persona was added later; the version Rob Liefield made was more or less a carbon copy. They even essentially have the same real name (Deathstroke is Slade Wilson).

It’s hardly a ripoff if it’s clearly a parody.

Not sure how the original stuff is clearly a parody?

Deadpool came second, and is a parody/spoof rather than ripoff of Deathstroke.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:

Deadpool came second, and is a parody/spoof rather than ripoff of Deathstroke.

He really wasn't originally a spoof in any way though. The comedy stuff was largely added later by Joe Kelly when the character was popular enough to get a solo series. The original story was essentially just "what if Deathstroke attacked the New Mutants instead of the New Teen Titans."

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
I've quite enjoyed Moviebob's overlong analysis of BvS. It's quite interesting as its less about getting hung up on things that are bad about the film and more about rooting out the good ideas at the heart of it and explaining why the film fails to get them across. It's an interesting series from a film dissection point of view at the very least.

Holy crap. I need over an hour to watch that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9juReoJxI0&index=2&list=PL1WoYVvJ35Xqeh6JGw1GPMB_HvxB8mSFe

Oof. Just finished the nearly 1-and-a-half hour Part 1. Dude has a lot to say, and he is not wrong. The narrative structure comparative breakdown was quite amusing, and only seems to highlight that these films are being managed, written and edited by Warner, rather than DC, much less the Directors.

After I decompress, I'll watch Part 2.
____

Also, this popped up:
https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/11/justice-league-edits-joss-whedon-micromanaged-zack-snyder

When you consider that Warner didn't even trust the ex-Avengers guy to "fix" JL, that kinda explains quite a bit.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
I've quite enjoyed Moviebob's overlong analysis of BvS. It's quite interesting as its less about getting hung up on things that are bad about the film and more about rooting out the good ideas at the heart of it and explaining why the film fails to get them across. It's an interesting series from a film dissection point of view at the very least.

Holy crap. I need over an hour to watch that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9juReoJxI0&index=2&list=PL1WoYVvJ35Xqeh6JGw1GPMB_HvxB8mSFe

Oof. Just finished the nearly 1-and-a-half hour Part 1. Dude has a lot to say, and he is not wrong. The narrative structure comparative breakdown was quite amusing, and only seems to highlight that these films are being managed, written and edited by Warner, rather than DC, much less the Directors.

After I decompress, I'll watch Part 2.
____

Also, this popped up:
https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/11/justice-league-edits-joss-whedon-micromanaged-zack-snyder

When you consider that Warner didn't even trust the ex-Avengers guy to "fix" JL, that kinda explains quite a bit.

A film by Warner Brothers
Written and Directed by Warner Brothers
Executive Producer Warner Brothers
Producers Warner Brothers
Staring The Warner Brothers.


I suppose that's what happens when you have too much corporate meddling from people who think that because they fund movies, they know how to make movies.

 welshhoppo wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
I've quite enjoyed Moviebob's overlong analysis of BvS. It's quite interesting as its less about getting hung up on things that are bad about the film and more about rooting out the good ideas at the heart of it and explaining why the film fails to get them across. It's an interesting series from a film dissection point of view at the very least.

Holy crap. I need over an hour to watch that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9juReoJxI0&index=2&list=PL1WoYVvJ35Xqeh6JGw1GPMB_HvxB8mSFe

Oof. Just finished the nearly 1-and-a-half hour Part 1. Dude has a lot to say, and he is not wrong. The narrative structure comparative breakdown was quite amusing, and only seems to highlight that these films are being managed, written and edited by Warner, rather than DC, much less the Directors.

After I decompress, I'll watch Part 2.
____

Also, this popped up:
https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/11/justice-league-edits-joss-whedon-micromanaged-zack-snyder

When you consider that Warner didn't even trust the ex-Avengers guy to "fix" JL, that kinda explains quite a bit.

A film by Warner Brothers
Written and Directed by Warner Brothers
Executive Producer Warner Brothers
Producers Warner Brothers
Staring The Warner Brothers.


I suppose that's what happens when you have too much corporate meddling from people who think that because they fund movies, they know how to make movies.

And yet JLA is (subjectively) a far superior film in all respects to Man of Steel and Bats vs Superman.