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Voss wrote:

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:A duel has to be more than a simple sword fight.

Actually, just getting on with it and having a simple sword fight would have been worlds better than the complete mess of pacing and dancing that characterized the 'Glaring Behind Force Fields of the Fates'

But then, so would a rap battle, given that their fight had no stakes whatsoever. Jar jar matter more to the fate of that planet than the jedi or sith did.

Right...because maul wouldn't have just crushed the small infiltration force that ended up capturing the high command of the droid army which could have just returned with another droid army...instead the Viceroy is forced to surrender to the infiltration force. If maul had won that fight or was unopposed by Jedi - Palatine could have acquired power much faster. Also...the first meeting of Sith and Jedi in combat in what? 1000 years? That is a 0 stakes fight? Right...want to know a 0 stakes fight? Lukes hologram fighting Kylo Ren - it's so insignificant and accomplishes nothing that they had to add stakes to make Luke die from Astral Projection fatigue thereby completing the movies final mission - to destroy the OT characters in the most insulting and uninteresting ways possible.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Right...want to know a 0 stakes fight? Lukes hologram fighting Kylo Ren - it's so insignificant and accomplishes nothing that they had to add stakes to make Luke die from Astral Projection fatigue thereby completing the movies final mission - to destroy the OT characters in the most insulting and uninteresting ways possible.

It is statements like this that make me think you and I watched a different movie. The "stakes" were to delay the FO so that the last few members of the Resistance could escape and spread hope throughout the Galaxy. Luke knew this would take the greatest toll on himself, but was worth it. Otherwise, the FO would have zero opposition and hope would have died.

Whether you think this is good writing or not is one matter (and one we can dsicuss), but saying outright that it was a "no stakes" fight is just flat out wrong as portrayed by the movie.

I can agree that having Luke die from the effort kinda sucked, but depending on how it is handled in IX, it could be worth it.
We know Yoda can do summon lightening and interact physically with living beings (he hit Luke on the head with his cane). So what is to stop Luke from doing some awesome stuff as a Force ghost in IX?

-

 Galef wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Right...want to know a 0 stakes fight? Lukes hologram fighting Kylo Ren - it's so insignificant and accomplishes nothing that they had to add stakes to make Luke die from Astral Projection fatigue thereby completing the movies final mission - to destroy the OT characters in the most insulting and uninteresting ways possible.

It is statements like this that make me think you and I watched a different movie. The "stakes" were to delay the FO so that the last few members of the Resistance could escape and spread hope throughout the Galaxy. Luke knew this would take the greatest toll on himself, but was worth it. Otherwise, the FO would have zero opposition and hope would have died.

Whether you think this is good writing or not is one matter (and one we can dsicuss), but saying outright that it was a "no stakes" fight is just flat out wrong as portrayed by the movie.

I can agree that having Luke die from the effort kinda sucked, but depending on how it is handled in IX, it could be worth it.
We know Yoda can do summon lightening and interact physically with living beings (he hit Luke on the head with his cane). So what is to stop Luke from doing some awesome stuff as a Force ghost in IX?

-

It's insignificant because delaying the FO for something like 5 minutes just doesn't matter. Yeah - it might have helped 8 members or however many that escaped out the back door (hard to believe they don't have the entire airspace covered with ties anyways so they shouldn't even be able to escape). If Luke had intervened and challenged kylo sooner and in his physical form - you could have had some stakes and maybe saved the whole fleet is all I'm saying. I don't even care if he loses to Kylo - it would give Kylo some credit to his power and make him more intimidating.

Just in regards to the comment that Maul vs Quigon and Obiwan didn't have any emotional stakes. That is just silly. If Maul wins or is unopposed by the Jedi - he would have killed/captured Padme on Naboo and Luke/Leia are never even born (Quigon and Obi were protecting Padme as she infiltrated the palace) Even if we didn't know it at the time that is a pretty serious stake in that battle. Plus - it's not like this is some kind of side plot. Quigon and Obiwan are main characters in Episode 1 and anytime you have main characters fighting a great evil there is emotional investment.

Honestly - I really hope they don't go the jedi ghost power route with this. Though - it would give some credence to the line that Obiwan made when he sacrificed himself against Vader "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine." I never took this literally though. I always assumed dead force wielders made use of their powers in more subtle ways...(kind of like angels in the outfeild) not literally summoning lightning strikes.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Phantom has Jar Jar and not enough action.

It opens with a Jedi fight scene which leads into the invasion of Naboo, and other Jedi fight scenes. The first hour of the movie is basically just one long series of action scenes; that's why they get boring.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

He looked disinterested, half-asleep, and to be frank, I though he was hung-over.

Uh... so your objection to a hung-over character who just woke up and isn't particularly interested in the Resistance cause is that he looked disinterested, half-asleep and hung-over...?

 Xenomancers wrote:
If Maul wins or is unopposed by the Jedi - he would have killed/captured Padme on Naboo and Luke/Leia are never even born (Quigon and Obi were protecting Padme as she infiltrated the palace).

How would he have captured her? He clearly wasn't trying to when she went back to Naboo. He wanted to prove himself against Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan.

 dogma wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
If Maul wins or is unopposed by the Jedi - he would have killed/captured Padme on Naboo and Luke/Leia are never even born (Quigon and Obi were protecting Padme as she infiltrated the palace).

How would he have captured her? He clearly wasn't trying to when she went back to Naboo. He wanted to prove himself against Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan.

Indeed, and short of plot armour the naboo soldiers could have just gunned him down. Rate of fire overcomes the ability to block blaster bolts.

 dogma wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
If Maul wins or is unopposed by the Jedi - he would have killed/captured Padme on Naboo and Luke/Leia are never even born (Quigon and Obi were protecting Padme as she infiltrated the palace).

How would he have captured her? He clearly wasn't trying to when she went back to Naboo. He wanted to prove himself against Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan.

He was specifically ordered by palatine to hunt the Jedi down. Maul obviosuly knew the situation though and would destroy or capture any of palpatines enemies he came accross. If he beat Obiwan as well...Don't you think he would have proceeded to deal with padme and friends?

In regards to the action - there was a huge swath of time spent on Coresant where very little action happens...we get some more Jar Jar BS and senate stuff. Me personally - I enjoyed those little quibits but it was a legit criticism that starwars movies up to that point had had a lot more action.


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 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 dogma wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
If Maul wins or is unopposed by the Jedi - he would have killed/captured Padme on Naboo and Luke/Leia are never even born (Quigon and Obi were protecting Padme as she infiltrated the palace).

How would he have captured her? He clearly wasn't trying to when she went back to Naboo. He wanted to prove himself against Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan.

Indeed, and short of plot armour the naboo soldiers could have just gunned him down. Rate of fire overcomes the ability to block blaster bolts.

If maul got overwhelmed a blaster could kill him but he has a lot of powers at his disposal - I think Maul could easily have killed that entire group of soldiers with only his lightsaber and some dashing around. Probably wouldn't even need to do things like...drop the ceiling on them or force push them out the windows.

 Xenomancers wrote:
[Just in regards to the comment that Maul vs Quigon and Obiwan didn't have any emotional stakes. That is just silly. If Maul wins or is unopposed by the Jedi - he would have killed/captured Padme on Naboo and Luke/Leia are never even born (Quigon and Obi were protecting Padme as she infiltrated the palace) Even if we didn't know it at the time that is a pretty serious stake in that battle. Plus - it's not like this is some kind of side plot. Quigon and Obiwan are main characters in Episode 1 and anytime you have main characters fighting a great evil there is emotional investment.

That is not what I was talking about. What reason was there for Obi-Wan and Qui Gon to fight Maul, other than he happened to be there? There wasn't one. They never even had a conversation with him. The only reason they fought him was because Lucas felt a lightsaber battle was required. You could remove Maul from Phantom and it would change nothing regarding the motivations of the characters for the vast majority of the film.

Obi-Wan fought Vader to try and defeat his fallen pupil and give Luke time to escape (ANH), Luke fought Vader to overcome his fear (TESB), Luke fought Vader to try and bring his father back (ROTJ).

All of those are reasons come from the characters themselves. That kind of personal motivation was lacking in every fight of the prequels but Anakin vs Obi-Wan (and maybe Anakin vs Dooku 2 which had the flimsy motivation of revenge for hand loss), which had its own huge issues thanks to poor choreography and the lack of any meaningful dialogue during the fight between Obi-Wan and Anakin. Luke, who had never known his father to be anything but evil, engaged in more conversation to draw out the good in Vader than Obi-Wan did, who was meant to be like a brother to him and had known him for pretty much all of Anakins life to that point.


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 Xenomancers wrote:

If maul got overwhelmed a blaster could kill him but he has a lot of powers at his disposal - I think Maul could easily have killed that entire group of soldiers with only his lightsaber and some dashing around. Probably wouldn't even need to do things like...drop the ceiling on them or force push them out the windows.

Except the only power he was shown using in the film was to pick up something and use it to push a button to open a door.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Voss wrote:

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:A duel has to be more than a simple sword fight.

Actually, just getting on with it and having a simple sword fight would have been worlds better than the complete mess of pacing and dancing that characterized the 'Glaring Behind Force Fields of the Fates'

But then, so would a rap battle, given that their fight had no stakes whatsoever. Jar jar matter more to the fate of that planet than the jedi or sith did.

Right...because maul wouldn't have just crushed the small infiltration force that ended up capturing the high command of the droid army which could have just returned with another droid army...instead the Viceroy is forced to surrender to the infiltration force.

That's true regardless. The 'small infiltration force' had no reason to work at all, and there was zero reason there couldn't be more droids (or why'd the TF would be stupid enough to route army control through a single processor with no backups or autonomous functions). Everything of importance happens outside the city or in space. Neither the Naboo's nor the Trade Federation's kings/queens have any business being involved in a face to face struggle

If maul had won that fight or was unopposed by Jedi - Palatine could have acquired power much faster.

Actually, he wouldn't have. Maul winning and killing Amidala is actually a detriment to the bizarre Xanatos gambit Palpatine is running. To take over, he needs opposition and the Jedi distracted. If the Naboo just sign an agreement with the TF, even under pressure, his casus belli is essentially gone.

Also...the first meeting of Sith and Jedi in combat in what? 1000 years? That is a 0 stakes fight?

Yep. That is a basically non-existent struggle filled in elsewhere and quickly exposited in some really boring, pointless and gibbery dialogue. Two dudes against an unchallenged jedi order with the advantage somehow going to the two dudes out for 'revenge' is essentially nonsense.



--

A Town Called Malus wrote:
Obi-Wan fought Vader to try and defeat his fallen pupil and give Luke time to escape (ANH),

The latter yes, the former very much no. Kenobi isn't there to defeat Vader. He's there to distract/lock him down, and possibly intentionally there to be 'struck down' by him, in front of Luke. But at no point is he fighting to win.

@Voss
1st point - When you destroy the "droid control ship" - you destroy the droids...seems reasonable enough to me. If you find this to be a plot hole I can't even imagine what you think of TLJ. Plus there were lots of droids - they actaully got captured by them and got lucky enough to get a gun on the Viceroy. They got lucky - rebels been getting lucky in starwars since forever.

2nd point - Padme freeing Naboo from the TF would have hurt Palpatine??? Okay...I think you missed some fundmental issues in the prequels. The entire reason for the TF invading Naboo was so Palpatine could justify creating armies so he could eventually seize power all over the Galaxy. Naboo being freed delayed Palpatines plot. He probably could have acquired his clone army much sooner if Naboo was being occupied.

3rd point just doesn't make sense to me - signing a peace treaty is bad for palpatine. I agree - that is what they did. The whole nonsense about a treaty to justify the occupation...not sure what kinda treaty that is - pretty weak I must admit.

4th point - it just sounds like you don't like the lore of star-wars to me. Doesn't make the epic clash of good vs evil any less important in a film like this.

Obiwan vs Vader - yeah he was never trying to beat him. I don't think he thought he could beat him.

 Xenomancers wrote:
@Voss
1st point - When you destroy the "droid control ship" - you destroy the droids...seems reasonable enough to me. If you find this to be a plot hole I can't even imagine what you think of TLJ. Plus there were lots of droids - they actaully got captured by them and got lucky enough to get a gun on the Viceroy. They got lucky - rebels been getting lucky in starwars since forever.

You mean how in The Last Jedi it is specifically stated that once the First Order realise the tracking system has been shut down (one cycle, which if I remember correctly only takes seconds) they will just activate it on a different ship? Whereas the control of the droids is purely in one ship with no possibility of transferring control?


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 Xenomancers wrote:

2nd point - Padme freeing Naboo from the TF would have hurt Palpatine??? Okay...I think you missed some fundmental issues in the prequels. The entire reason for the TF invading Naboo was so Palpatine could justify creating armies so he could eventually seize power all over the Galaxy. Naboo being freed delayed Palpatines plot. He probably could have acquired his clone army much sooner if Naboo was being occupied.

Actually, he initiated the invasion to weaken the current chancellor and take his place. Which he needed Amidala's help to do, due to her being able to garner sympathy and support in the senate.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

Actually, he initiated the invasion to weaken the current chancellor and take his place. Which he needed Amidala's help to do, due to her being able to garner sympathy and support in the senate.

I think Palpatine's plan was to play both sides: if the Trade Federation prevailed, great, he got more influence through them. Alternatively, he could use the crisis to show himself the only man who could stop Trade Federation and propel himself Chancellor: a win-win plan.

(Or alternatively, he had foreseen it all with his Sith foresight.)

At least that's how I interpreted it. The plot was a huge mess with enormous holes, so it is hard to fathom what was the intention.





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 Galef wrote:

We know Yoda can do summon lightening and interact physically with living beings (he hit Luke on the head with his cane). So what is to stop Luke from doing some awesome stuff as a Force ghost in IX?

Well, my theory is that Force Ghosts aren't real: they are Force projections from memories about said person (or maybe some kind of imprints in persons psyche). According to this theory, it was actually Luke who summoned the lightning, he was just projecting Yoda to debate with himself.

Backfire wrote:

 Galef wrote:

We know Yoda can do summon lightening and interact physically with living beings (he hit Luke on the head with his cane). So what is to stop Luke from doing some awesome stuff as a Force ghost in IX?

Well, my theory is that Force Ghosts aren't real: they are Force projections from memories about said person (or maybe some kind of imprints in persons psyche). According to this theory, it was actually Luke who summoned the lightning, he was just projecting Yoda to debate with himself.

I cannot buy this theory because it would mean that Luke also "confirmed" that Vader was his own father and the Leia was his sister. In order for that to be true, force users are way more precognitiant than we ever thought.
However, along the lines of your theory is my theory that only force users that knew the person in life can see force ghosts. So Rey could never see Yoda or Obi-wan, but could see Luke.
This would also explain why Luke never saw Qui-Gon despite him being able to manifest himself in later canon sources.

-

I thought the movie was terrible , especially snook sAying rey had spunk.

Also the opening 20 minutes was garbage.

 Galef wrote:

Backfire wrote:

 Galef wrote:

We know Yoda can do summon lightening and interact physically with living beings (he hit Luke on the head with his cane). So what is to stop Luke from doing some awesome stuff as a Force ghost in IX?

Well, my theory is that Force Ghosts aren't real: they are Force projections from memories about said person (or maybe some kind of imprints in persons psyche). According to this theory, it was actually Luke who summoned the lightning, he was just projecting Yoda to debate with himself.

I cannot buy this theory because it would mean that Luke also "confirmed" that Vader was his own father and the Leia was his sister. In order for that to be true, force users are way more precognitiant than we ever thought.

Well, much of the Force precognition is subconscious (Force reflexes for example). But yes, several events in the movies probably contradict my theory.

 Xenomancers wrote:
@Voss
1st point - When you destroy the "droid control ship" - you destroy the droids...seems reasonable enough to me. If you find this to be a plot hole I can't even imagine what you think of TLJ. Plus there were lots of droids

There were a lot of droids. Which makes having a control ship that can be nuked by a passing battleship extra stupid. If you lose a space battle (or some idiot gets lucky), you also lose control of the the entire planet. That is insanely bad and not at all reasonable. And naturally exactly what happens. The trade federation at this stage are bumbling incompetents, not a serious threat.

TLJ was trash.

2nd point - Padme freeing Naboo from the TF would have hurt Palpatine??? Okay...I think you missed some fundmental issues in the prequels. The entire reason for the TF invading Naboo was so Palpatine could justify creating armies so he could eventually seize power all over the Galaxy. Naboo being freed delayed Palpatines plot. He probably could have acquired his clone army much sooner if Naboo was being occupied.

No, he couldn't. The conquest of the Naboo was essentially a procedural debate for the Republic Senate, setting up his political maneuvers. He wanted a patsy to disrupt the current chancellor (and presumably destabilize political alliances, though as usual we aren't shown the real work). A clone army would be useless at this point- he isn't in a position to point it anywhere, nor pressure anyone with the threat of a pair of bumbling idiots (Nute and lackey). Having a 'Sith' openly murder a ruler of a Republic world raises a lot of questions and problems. Not even the TF idiots wanted to kill her until they were way over their heads. He needs time for the Separatist threat to emerge, not just rely on the incompetent buffoons of the TF. Which is what Dooku is presumably doing off camera- building up a credible threat to require a clone army.

3rd point just doesn't make sense to me - signing a peace treaty is bad for palpatine. I agree - that is what they did. The whole nonsense about a treaty to justify the occupation...not sure what kinda treaty that is - pretty weak I must admit.

It was also what they were planning on doing- the TF wanted her to legitimize their invasion, Amidala wanted to repudiate it. Neither results in armies for Palpatine. That comes later

4th point - it just sounds like you don't like the lore of star-wars to me. Doesn't make the epic clash of good vs evil any less important in a film like this.

I... don't understand the relevance. The 'lore' has very little to do with good vs evil. Those clashes in Star Wars are very personal, not epic- Luke vs Vader, Kenobi vs Annie. Son vs father, teacher vs student.
'Sith' is just a made-up nonsense word- it actually detracts quite a lot from the story being told, if it all comes down to some inevitable perennial cycle

What did I just watch ? Was....was it a SW movie ? No, I can't believe it. I enjoyed Fifty Shade of Grey more than this...thing.

I disliked SW VII, but I was happy, because I knew they couldn't destroy SW any further. I knew it, right ?

I hated this movie since the very beggining. Everything felt so wrong... The baddies are just bad and plain stupid, so stupid...
The "heroes" just so lucky, there is a ton of childish humour...
It is a horrible movie on so many points

Voss wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
@Voss
1st point - When you destroy the "droid control ship" - you destroy the droids...seems reasonable enough to me. If you find this to be a plot hole I can't even imagine what you think of TLJ. Plus there were lots of droids

There were a lot of droids. Which makes having a control ship that can be nuked by a passing battleship extra stupid. If you lose a space battle (or some idiot gets lucky), you also lose control of the the entire planet. That is insanely bad and not at all reasonable. And naturally exactly what happens. The trade federation at this stage are bumbling incompetents, not a serious threat.

If they lose their flagship, do they care if they lose the entire planet? The Trade Federation has no interest in forcing a Pyrrhic victory on Naboo - killing everyone that matters and breaking the blockade already robs them of everything they care about, so leaving the droids to rampage across the planet achieves nothing they deem important. Palpatine has something to gain from this, but he's not in direct command of the Trade Federation.

 insaniak wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

He looked disinterested, half-asleep, and to be frank, I though he was hung-over.

Uh... so your objection to a hung-over character who just woke up and isn't particularly interested in the Resistance cause is that he looked disinterested, half-asleep and hung-over...?

Lol, I was going to say the same earlier but didn't get a chance . He portrayed that really well!

Voss wrote:
There were a lot of droids. Which makes having a control ship that can be nuked by a passing battleship extra stupid. If you lose a space battle (or some idiot gets lucky), you also lose control of the the entire planet. That is insanely bad and not at all reasonable. And naturally exactly what happens. The trade federation at this stage are bumbling incompetents, not a serious threat.

Here's the thing, though - they were operating under instructions from Darth Sidious, who would have no doubt assured them that there wouldn't beany passing battleships that might cause a nuisance. The only assistance that was sent Naboo's way was a couple of Jedi negotiators.

As far as we can tell from the movie, the best the Naboo could muster were their fighters, and if it hadn't been for the wonder child accidentally flying inside the hanger bay and blowing it up from inside, they wouldn't have had a chance of taking it down.





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 godardc wrote:
The baddies are just bad and plain stupid, so stupid...
The "heroes" just so lucky, there is a ton of childish humour...

You just summed up every Star Wars movie made to date.

Was their something specific about this one to warrant such ire?

I really can't believe how many people are obsessing over the alleged SJW agenda. Christ. Is it really necessary to spew the same hate post after post? What is going on in your life that you feel the need to berate the movie and fans of it over and over and over...it's insane.




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KTG17 wrote:
I am actually amazed in this politically correct world, that a black character beat up and killed a white woman. Then again, in some warped way, that is probably okay. Had Finn been white, I am not so sure that would have gone over as well. Who knows, its hard to know what is okay and not okay these days. I know it wouldn't have been okay had Phasma been a black woman.

Of course, I say this just partially screwing around. I think Phasma is lame anyway. All she did was walk around in that pose holding her blaster. She could have at least killed off a subordinate.

What is this madness?

It's a movie about a made up universe. You are the one injecting politics into this. How do you even look for something like that in the first place?

Why does his skin color matter so much?

 Xenomancers wrote:
He was specifically ordered by palatine to hunt the Jedi down.

Does that happen in the prequels?

 Xenomancers wrote:
Maul obviosuly knew the situation though and would destroy or capture any of palpatines enemies he came accross. If he beat Obiwan as well...Don't you think he would have proceeded to deal with padme and friends?

How would Maul obviously know anything? He's basically portrayed as a robot with a sword, and some limited force powers in TPM.

 trexmeyer wrote:
I really can't believe how many people are obsessing over the alleged SJW agenda. Christ. Is it really necessary to spew the same hate post after post?

Err, you mean the 1 person obsessing over the alleged SJW agenda?

What is going on in your life that you feel the need to berate the movie and fans of it over and over and over...it's insane.

Welcome to the internet! You must be new here. The internet is an amazing place full of people with nothing better to do with their time than do things like, oh I dunno, post about a movie in a forum dedicated to toy soldiers.

So, I had the same experience as Trex: I enjoyed the film way more on a second viewing. Free from the distraction of figuring out the plot and themes, I was able to take in a lot more of the fun stuff. The film is visually striking, and the director had a gift for cinematic storytelling and finding the right "take" on a scene (flawed as the underlying premise may be). TLJ gives us a bunch of new iconic moments, such as the quiet scene, the salt stand off, the throne room, back-to-back light sabers (oh how I needed that), the bomber squad sacrifice. Some failed pretty spectacularly, like the Leia in Space scene, but the ambition was there. The film had a lot to say, not all of it profound, but that's still an improvement from the last few. I did enjoy some of the subversions, although again there were some noteworthy failures, such as setting Holdo up as the crusty old coward/traitor only surprise us with her sacrifice. The emotional beats were facile, but far more effective for me than in previous SW films. The force was mysterious again, and the setting wiped nearly clean. Hopefully this film is more like a scab being ripped off the franchise to reveal new skin rather than a grievous injury. I could enjoy more SW films like this one for what they are, even if they aren't "real" Star Wars.

However, if Disney don't take the criticisms seriously and learn some hard lessons, the franchise will only get worse. While I enjoyed the film and would even welcome more like it, I'm not blind to its flaws by any means. The worst reaction the fans can have is to sweep the criticism under a rug and pretend there were no failures to learn from in TLJ. I can understand people who hate the film. I definitely feel the people who love the film. But the people who loves this film and can't or won't see any other perspective are the fans most likely to kill the franchise.

The reaction to this film reminds me of those personality tests that ask you whether you love a song for the melody or the beat. TLJ has a beautiful melody and a godawful beat. Love it for the melody, but don't deny the beat exists.

The trick for Disney moving forward is going to be in picking the legitimate criticism out of the mass of 'Worst film evuh!' hyperbole.

Or not. There's certainly some things that could be improved, but I would be quite happy to sit through another few films just like this one, and I'm really hoping (but doubting, frankly) that the Han Solo movie is at least this good.

I think the Han Solo movie was one of the worst ideas in a franchise riddled with bad ideas.

But then, I think Disney believes wrongly that the potential of the franchise is in the OT characters and their descendants rather than in the OT's setting and themes.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I think the Han Solo movie was one of the worst ideas in a franchise riddled with bad ideas.

Eh. A Han Solo prequel movie has been bounced around as an idea for as long as I can remember- at least since Empire came out. People wanted backstory on how he hooked up with Chewie and how he got the Falcon and all that stuff. When the Young Indiana Jones show happened, I remember a lot of speculation that a young Han Solo thing might also happen.

There isn't any inherent reason for it to be terrible (beyond an actor mismatch or another horrible writer/director at the helm). It could easily ditch a lot of the philosophical navel gazing and tropes and just focus on being a snappy space-buckling adventure.

People also wanted to know what Anakin was like before he became Darth Vader...

And yeah, it is an inherently terrible idea to map out the backstory for the mysterious, cynical scoundrel who only looks out for number one (and Chewy, I guess). Either it has to explain how he became so cynical and knowledgeable in the underworldwhile also naturally leading to his big arc in the OT (a subjective thing that will leave some fans unsatisfied),or it will be a total waste of time about a character who ends the movie unchanged from its beginning, or it will break continuity with the character. Han is an iconic character and Disney is the company that thinks JJ should come back for another go. There's nowhere to go but down.

 insaniak wrote:





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 godardc wrote:
The baddies are just bad and plain stupid, so stupid...
The "heroes" just so lucky, there is a ton of childish humour...

You just summed up every Star Wars movie made to date.

Was their something specific about this one to warrant such ire?

I don't think we saw the same movies, then.
How in SW IV, the heroes succeed by having luck ? The Empire let them flee to track them to their base. Obi Wan die. Luck has the Force to help him destroy the (flawed) Death Star. The baddies aren't just idiots and don't shout "send all our fighters !" or "send all our troops" or "all our firepower !" on one target, they don't talk with one x wing for 5 min while the ennemy fleet is fleeing, etc...

How in SW V they succeed by having luck ? When he get his hand cutted ? When they get their base invaded ? When Solo get send to Jabba ? Yeah.
And Jabba isn't just a random bad guy, supposedly superpowerful, but that in fact die easily in the middle of the second movie. He is a criminal, kind of a drug lord. Not just a stupid redhead making grimace every time he speaks. Seriously, did you see Hux ?!

Do you see that all the characters in SW aren't just mustache twirling villain, except in these two "movies" (VII and VIII) ?