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 Ghaz wrote:

fresus wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:
Also, if they printed all the FAQs in an appendix it would be good.

And as soon as they update the FAQ the one in the book becomes useless. Better to leave the FAQs online so they can be updated regularly and use the saved space for other content.

Didn't GW already said they would put the FAQs in Chapter Approved?

No. There will be 'rules updates', not FAQs.

Which I agree with. Keep the FAQ to a pdf so it doesn't clutter the book.

Excited is probably the wrong word but I'm keen to get ahold of it and see what new ways they've devised to make my army boring and underpowered. Some call me a cynic!

xlDuke wrote:
Excited is probably the wrong word but I'm keen to get ahold of it and see what new ways they've devised to make my army boring and underpowered. Some call me a cynic!

Still others might call you an ork player!

We should be used to it

 Melissia wrote:
You sound like a sisters of battle player. Would you be interested in buying some space marines?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lance845 wrote:
I am sure your codex is coming.

Not any time soon. Eldar and Tyranids are next.

Considering the last time nids had a codex was 6th edition and the rate in which codexes are currently being released I think your wait isn't too bad.

The Astra Militarum needed nerfs so I can play my army again and not feel like a #^%@.

I highly doubt Chapter Approved will contain any rebalancing to the actual codexes released.

If anything, it will contain campaign rules, new missions, additional-and/or-tweaked advanced rules from the BRB.

They've semi-promised that Chapter Approved will be an opportunity to revise the points tables for each codex (hence why they're separate I guess) to further rebalance the "meta" as they receive player feedback throughout the year. Whether this actually happens remains to be seen - call me cautiously optimistic.

I'm really hoping for them to nerf characters and hordes. Just a teeny bit on the characters and a lot bit on the hordes. I don't want to build and paint 100+ of the same model just to make my army work.

 NurglesR0T wrote:
I highly doubt Chapter Approved will contain any rebalancing to the actual codexes released.

They have already confirmed that it will in the way of updated points:

Updated matched play points for dozens of units and weapons across every army

'Every army', not just those still using the Indices.

 Ghaz wrote:

 NurglesR0T wrote:
I highly doubt Chapter Approved will contain any rebalancing to the actual codexes released.

They have already confirmed that it will in the way of updated points:

Yep, which I acknowledged in my last paragraph

Points is one thing, but I'm referring to the internal balance of the codex and special rules (looking at you IG) that won't be changing any time soon.

Afterthought: I guess rebalancing points could address their special rules by making things cost more, but that's a hit or miss depending on the unit.

Points adjustments is one way you can rebalance a codex, both internally and against other codices. Therefore your statement that Chapter Approved would not rebalance existing codices was wrong as they will be doing so via points adjustments.

Clearly we think of two different things when referring to balance then.

My statement isn't any more wrong than yours in each other's view.

 NurglesR0T wrote:
Clearly we think of two different things when referring to balance then.

My statement isn't any more wrong than yours in each other's view.

Are you saying you don't think things can be rebalanced by adjusting points costs?

No, I said exactly that. But points is only one aspect of a balanced codex - not the be all and end all.

nurglesrot wrote:Points is one thing, but I'm referring to the internal balance of the codex and special rules (looking at you IG) that won't be changing any time soon.

Afterthought: I guess rebalancing points could address their special rules by making things cost more, but that's a hit or miss depending on the unit.

 NurglesR0T wrote:
Clearly we think of two different things when referring to balance then.

My statement isn't any more wrong than yours in each other's view.

So then what's the point of points if not to balance the game? Do you let your opponent have twice as many points as you since points have nothing to do with balance?

 NurglesR0T wrote:
No, I said exactly that. But points is only one aspect of a balanced codex - not the be all and end all.

nurglesrot wrote:Points is one thing, but I'm referring to the internal balance of the codex and special rules (looking at you IG) that won't be changing any time soon.

Afterthought: I guess rebalancing points could address their special rules by making things cost more, but that's a hit or miss depending on the unit.

Fair enough, I agree. Sometimes a points cost change is all that's needed, sometimes other approaches are the best way to deal with a problem.

 Ghaz wrote:

 NurglesR0T wrote:
Clearly we think of two different things when referring to balance then.

My statement isn't any more wrong than yours in each other's view.

So then what's the point of points if not to balance the game? Do you let your opponent have twice as many points as you since points have nothing to do with balance?

Read the rest of my posts and you'll see that I agree with you except I believe that points are not the only defining factor of a balanced codex.

Unless you want to just argue for the sake of it, please continue.

Never argue with Ghaz. he is a 9th degree blackbelt in word-fu.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
What is the custom vehicle builder?

From what I have heard it is a way to make landraiders with different weapon combos, which could be extended to other vehicles later. Unless more info has come out from when I last read about it.

I know some people think this is lame, but it's a good balancing point to see how well they can do one vehicle for now.

If they can get at least one figured out, our friends who are Ork players will have purpose again in their lives via looted vehicles.

This makes total sense, but the thing that's annoying isn't that they chose to single out land raiders. It's that they chose to single out the imperium. Again.

The Looted Wagon is something that has been around for YEARS. Decades, even. It's been an Ork staple for as long as I can remember. And for some reason, it's been removed, and not replaced with anything, leaving a lot of Ork players with vehicles they can't use. Also leaving them with the default vehicles, which are all terrible. The Imperium, on the other hand, have (for the same points costs as a trukk/battlewagon) tougher, stronger, generally better vehicles with more (and better) guns.

And so how do GW balance this huge disparity between the two factions? They give the Imperium looted wagons. And give the Orks (and xenos in general) a huge fat middle finger right up the a-hole.

They really might as well just drop the xenos lines, and merge 40k and Horus Heresy.


On topic, Chapter Approved has to come with:

- Huge points reductions for 90% of the Ork units (points reduced by between 20 and 50%, depending on the unit) so that Orks become a playable faction until their codex is released next year.

- Fairly large (though not as much as Orks) point *increases* for about half of the units in the imperial guard codex. Several infantry options needs to be increased a bit (1 point per model would probably be enough for a lot of them), and some of the vehicles need to be upped by about 20%. Yeh, yeh, IG players are gonna cry and say "but that means my army will be more expensive than it was in 7th!!". Good, then it'll be the same as every Xenos army.

So tired of the Xenos getting the shaft by GW. I remember when the Xenos codices used to be the ones full of fluff and fun rules. Now they're just given... well, nothing at all. Except unecessary points increases.

I mean jeez, the Wraithknight has identical stats to the Imperial Knight, except that it has worse abilities and weapon options, and costs -more-. Literally costs more just because it's not Imperial. It's like paying for a brand name, but in reverse.

They chose the Land Raider because it's available to the most players. It's pointless to have what is essentially a beta test of the Vehicle Design Rules if they're only going to get feedback from a handful of Ork players.

 Ghaz wrote:
They chose the Land Raider because it's available to the most players. It's pointless to have what is essentially a beta test of the Vehicle Design Rules if they're only going to get feedback from a handful of Ork players.

Well, it's only available to space marine players, really. And their rules are already so efficient that the custom vehicle rules are either going to be a) too expensive, and not worth it compared to normal vehicle options, or b) give marines even more cheap and powerful options. Which they don't need, as they already have the most cheap and powerful options.

They may have gotten less feedback from ork players, but at least they'd have been designing for an army that needed it. The Mary Sue marines do not need these rules.

If there are only a handful of ork players out there, it's only because gw keep giving all the models and rules to the filthy humans all the time and neglect their other races.

The vehicle design rules won't be legal in matched play. So if someone finds a broken combo the designers didn't think about, it shouldn't break the meta.

Points aren't always sufficient to rebalance stuff. It's always enough to bring an OP unit in line with the rest, but when a unit in a codex doesn't fulfill any specific role, it needs to have its rules changed. I doubt we'll see that for the codex entries. In theory it's still possible for the index units, but I think we'll just see army-wide rules and point changes, not a change in existing datasheets.

I'd like to see levels in cover, something like this -

Obscured

Level 1 - single tree or bush (that have multiple models for transportation purposes roll a D6 on a result of 1-3 50% of shots rounded down suffer a -1 to to-hit rolls when shooting at a unit in or behind this terrain. On a result of 4-6 all shots suffer a -1 to to-hit rolls when shooting at a unit within or behind this terrain.)

Level 2 - Multiple trees or rubble (all shots suffer a -1 to to-hit rolls when shooting at a unit within or behind this terrain.)

Level 3 - Only terrain purchased within a player's list can be Level 3 (all shots suffer a -2 to to-hit rolls when shooting at a unit embarked in this terrain.

Barrier

Level 1 - Small Ruins or multiple rocks (Roll a D6 for units within or behind this terrain, on a result of 1-3 50% of armour save rolls rounded up get a +1, on a result of 4-6 all armour save rolls get a +1.)

Level 2 - High walls or Ruin buildings (Roll a D6 for units within or behind this terrain, on a result of 1-3 all armour save rolls get a +1, on a result of 4-6 all armour save rolls get a +2.)

Level 3 - Only terrain purchased within a player's list gets Level 3 (Units embarked in this terrain get a +2 to all armour saves.)

Stacking - A unit can benefit from the effects of up to two pieces of terrain by being within one piece of terrain and having another between them and the unit shooting at them. Example: a unit within a level two terrain and behind a level one terrain gains the benefits of both level two and level one terrain, it does not become a level three. A unit can also gain the effects of one barrier type and one obscure type terrain at the same time.

Some units also fall into both categories like trenches and larger ruins, they can also gain the effects of an extra terrain piece between them and the targeting unit. Trenches however will not contribute to bonuses when located between a unit in a terrain piece an the targeting unit.

I am looking forward to the custom vehicle rules. There are so many combinations that I want to theorize, like a Whirlwind with Sponson mounted weapons. The models for the Predator and the Vindicator don't sync up, otherwise I would love to have a Vindicator with a Predator Lascannon turret and sponsons. Another fun one would be a Land Raider Crusader with the Predator Heavy Bolters added on like the Terminus Ultra, just as a MOAR DAKKA variant. An Assault Cannon or Heavy Bolter Razorback with Hurricane Bolter Sponsons would be fun too. Mixing and matching Dreadnought chassis arms could yield some interesting results. Give a Librarian Dreadnought a Frag Cannon arm or give a Death Company Dreadnought two Dreadnought Chainfists!

I guess I could give Ironstrider Ballistarii a Phosphor Serpenta or a Radium Jezzail for some added Dakka.

Other than that, I am waiting for them to throw a bone to the armies that haven't yet received a codex. It'll probably be just limited to giving them Objective Secured for Troops, but I wouldn't mind Dark Angels, Blood Angels, and Space Wolves getting their Chapter Tactics variant (other armies would get their variant, like they could do single Dark Eldar Gang or Ork Mob and so on).

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I am looking forward to the custom vehicle rules. There are so many combinations that I want to theorize, like a Whirlwind with Sponson mounted weapons. The models for the Predator and the Vindicator don't sync up, otherwise I would love to have a Vindicator with a Predator Lascannon turret and sponsons. Another fun one would be a Land Raider Crusader with the Predator Heavy Bolters added on like the Terminus Ultra, just as a MOAR DAKKA variant. An Assault Cannon or Heavy Bolter Razorback with Hurricane Bolter Sponsons would be fun too. Mixing and matching Dreadnought chassis arms could yield some interesting results. Give a Librarian Dreadnought a Frag Cannon arm or give a Death Company Dreadnought two Dreadnought Chainfists!.

I'm not sure the vehicle rules will apply to anything other than land raiders. I found the article where they mentioned that pretty vague though.

Yes. It will be for Land Raiders only to begin with. Its not about who thinks they 'need' the rules more than someone else or anything like that. People complain GW doesn't playtest, and when they do what constitutes an open beta test and people still complain

Actually, points are the end all be all. Units are only good or bad relative to their cost.

 Ghaz wrote:
Yes. It will be for Land Raiders only to begin with. Its not about who thinks they 'need' the rules more than someone else or anything like that. People complain GW doesn't playtest, and when they do what constitutes an open beta test and people still complain

This would only be relevant if I was someone who complained they didn't playtest.

It would also only be relevant if the only/best option was for GW to start with the Imperial Land Raider. It's not.

Ork vehicles are already a better source, both fluffwise and ruleswise, for modifications and additions. It would benefit the army more. GW would garner more goodwill from the playerbase, free publicity and pleasing a currently unhappy section of the playerbase is far more important than many would think in a business. (Ork players would thank them all over the internets for the return of looted wagons. Imperium players couldn't care less. Now instead, Ork players are annoyed that the Imperium are getting their looted wagons.)

You say they chose land raiders because everyone has access to them. This is untrue. Space Marine players are the only ones with access to them, and even then they are only used in a limited number of cases. If it was truly about playtesting, then they should have chosen the Rhino to test on. That at least spreads the player base to other Imperium factions too. And a lot of players run multiple rhinos, allowing for multiple playtest options, compared to land raiders where *maybe* a player runs one, but usually its none.

So to test these rules, guess what, a lot of people are going to have to -buy- Land Raiders.

Should have been based on Ork Trukks. All ork players have them, all ork players used to use them but no longer can because their current rules are awful. GW would have gotten a lot more beta testing data from Trukks than they will from Land Raiders.

You left out an option.

"paying GW more money to fix my codex for what is and should be a free faq".

 Orock wrote:
You left out an option.

"paying GW more money to fix my codex for what is and should be a free faq".

There is more to Chapter Approved than fixing your codex, Orock.