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 Arachnofiend wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Galas wrote:
Well, to be honest I never said this codex was, or I tought it was gonna be bad. I still believe that the Cratworld traits feel uninspired compared with the IG ones, but to be honest, every one feels underwhelming compared with the IG ones

Not trying to put you on the spot before or now, but no the IG traits are not that amazing. This keeps being parroted like it is settled. As with every book, like 2-3 traits are useful while the others are bland and uninventive. I mean, we got a repeat assault weapon trait, additional rapid fire range and max range benefit and one that helps on overwatch. Then there is the funny catachan one that makes your guardsmen stronger (because thats real useful) and the Cadian one that promotes not moving ever.

The eldar traits are on par for 8th edition and as with every other book including the Guard one btw, the majority pissed and moaned until the rest of the leaks came out when they ate humble pie. I am hoping against the odds that the same thing doesn't happen with the Tyranid release but I won't holds my breath.

I like how you have to completely misrepresent the Catachan trait to make your argument seem valid

How am I misrepresenting it? The infantry get +1 strength on a guardsmen.

You're misrepresenting it by deliberately leaving out half of the ability. Giving guardsmen more points efficient melee than orks is just the icing on the cake for that trait.

Niiru wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

OK so this is a lot of CP's but you can move banshees 8" +6" with a CP then in the psychic phase move 8" +6" with another CP and then shoot and move another 7" and finally charge 2d6+3" with a rerool as Saim Han. Thats pretty incredible. Not sure I can get behind some of the frankly comical levels of speed for foot sloggers this book creates.

Eldar are meant to be incredibly fast. They are fast, and fragile. That's their thing. So they should be the fastest, even without using any CP.

Unfortunately IG are still stupidly fast, and they can do it for free.

Conscripts (or any other infantry unit) can move 6" + D6" + 6" + D6"... so up to 24 inches in a turn, for free. They can't shoot or charge though, but for getting into position or blocking an incoming charge its great. And costs no CP. So an entire infantry army can move 14-24 inches on turn 1. Would they want to? Maybe not. But they can.

Crusaders can move 6" + D6" + 6" + D6", and then charge 2D6, so a potential 36" charge range, again for zero CP.

Compared to this, your example with Banshees used 3CP, which is probably 30-50% of your total CP pool. I can't see it getting used very often. I'd much rather they could do it for free, like the Imperium units can, considering Eldar are meant to be faster.

Edit: Would in fact be cheaper to just deep strike the banshees in. More effective too, as you'd just need to make the charge. And you can use the CP's you saved on rerolling the charge roll if need be.

Hey look it took you literally one line to start griping about IG for some reason. BTW I play eldar so you can stop trying to explain to me what eldars thing is. It's cringy. They are plenty fast without stratagems. The fact that they got warptime with an 18" range on a model that costs 37 points (probably less now) is mind bendingly good. Especially when you can drop anything you want in the book outside 9" of enemies anywhere on the table. Hey look, 10 wraith(any variety) pop up and can move point blank from a power cast beyond denial range! BTW thats 1cp. But hey, keep moaning on about how you somehow need to burn all the CO's to do something. My example was not meant to demonstrate CP efficiency or a must do combo, it was showing how ludicrously fast anything in this book can be. Even on foot.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
You're misinterpreting it by deliberately leaving out half of the ability. Giving guardsmen more points efficient melee than orks is just the icing on the cake for that trait.

Thats not misrepresenting a thing there buddy. I was briefly running down traits, the funny thing is even the reroll random shots ability is not that amazing. It simply makes them playable. Shooting a tank that hits on a 4+ before mods that has equal odds at rolling a 1 as it does a 6 is terrible.

Oh btw your claim that the trait makes guardsmen more efficient then orks in melee is not only entirely false but THAT is misleading. Even at 3ppm for consripts, 1 s4 attack thats hits on a 5+ is nowhere near as efficient per point then an ork boy in melee. Keep making up with your alternative facts though, its entertaining.

If I am misrepresenting then your blatantly exaggerating your own standards.

EDIT this part btw is asinine. You have no idea what anyones intent is.

nobody here is thinking that of course this thing of the traits is the new genaration gw policy to sell more among old gamers....
In the 7th were detachments, but they basically f*"ked up the entire game balance and the result was a bad game in general, forcing a lot of people leaving the game.
Now here we go, how can we force a biel tan player with 9000 pts of army already on the shelves to buy something more than the codex?!
here we go...he will struggle to have a fething brand new spearhead detachment of alaitoc to get that fething -1 to hit!!!!

jesus christ guys relax and have fun, stop barking among you...

btw i wiil leave my base black colour scheme and magnetize a part with a proper colour scheme and transfer... you won't have my money stupid gw

 Red Corsair wrote:

Niiru wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

OK so this is a lot of CP's but you can move banshees 8" +6" with a CP then in the psychic phase move 8" +6" with another CP and then shoot and move another 7" and finally charge 2d6+3" with a rerool as Saim Han. Thats pretty incredible. Not sure I can get behind some of the frankly comical levels of speed for foot sloggers this book creates.

Eldar are meant to be incredibly fast. They are fast, and fragile. That's their thing. So they should be the fastest, even without using any CP.

Unfortunately IG are still stupidly fast, and they can do it for free.

Conscripts (or any other infantry unit) can move 6" + D6" + 6" + D6"... so up to 24 inches in a turn, for free. They can't shoot or charge though, but for getting into position or blocking an incoming charge its great. And costs no CP. So an entire infantry army can move 14-24 inches on turn 1. Would they want to? Maybe not. But they can.

Crusaders can move 6" + D6" + 6" + D6", and then charge 2D6, so a potential 36" charge range, again for zero CP.

Compared to this, your example with Banshees used 3CP, which is probably 30-50% of your total CP pool. I can't see it getting used very often. I'd much rather they could do it for free, like the Imperium units can, considering Eldar are meant to be faster.

Edit: Would in fact be cheaper to just deep strike the banshees in. More effective too, as you'd just need to make the charge. And you can use the CP's you saved on rerolling the charge roll if need be.

Hey look it took you literally one line to start griping about IG for some reason. BTW I play eldar so you can stop trying to explain to me what eldars thing is. It's cringy. They are plenty fast without stratagems. The fact that they got warptime with an 18" range on a model that costs 37 points (probably less now) is mind bendingly good. Especially when you can drop anything you want in the book outside 9" of enemies anywhere on the table. Hey look, 10 wraith(any variety) pop up and can move point blank from a power cast beyond denial range! BTW thats 1cp. But hey, keep moaning on about how you somehow need to burn all the CO's to do something. My example was not meant to demonstrate CP efficiency or a must do combo, it was showing how ludicrously fast anything in this book can be. Even on foot.

Well, the warlock would only be able to cast that warptime move if they're within 18", so they'd only be outside of deny range if the wraithguard deep strike inbetween the enemy and the warlock. So it's hardly guaranteed, depending on positioning. And if the warlock perils, the wraithguard get left out in the open and the warlock dies and does damage to anyone nearby.

So it's a pretty good stratagem, but it's no better than the IG relic that lets a character bring a squad of anything they like in on any turn via deepstrike. Deepstriking a squad of bullgryn, which with appropriate character support (also cheap) can get extra attacks and/or a 2++ invulnerable save. And this again is a relic, so costs zero CP.

I'm not "griping" about IG, I actually like the codex, but you're complaining that Eldar are now too fast, when they're only crazily faster than IG when burning a bunch of CP's to do so, and Eldar do not have many CP's to use. I'd say it works out pretty fairly, on paper. In practise, we won't know until it's tested. Banshees are fast, but way more fragile than a sprinting IG squad. I suspect they'll end up being a novelty unit, and not all that devastating on the table.

Got the Bonesinger and the starter set!
USA pre-orders up!

 tirnaog wrote:
Got the Bonesinger and the starter set!
USA pre-orders up!

Ordered Bonesinger, the Start Collecting box, and an Eldrad cos the new model looks cool.

Tempted by a couple jetbikes too, but might wait until the warlock skyrunner stats/prices shake out. I liked my old jetbike seer council though, and may just splurge on it even if it's not competitive. It's at least better now than it was in the index.

Bonesinger, 2 Start Collecting, an extra box of Wraithguard, codex and cards. Nearly all Wraithnoun army, here I come.

Niiru wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Niiru wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

OK so this is a lot of CP's but you can move banshees 8" +6" with a CP then in the psychic phase move 8" +6" with another CP and then shoot and move another 7" and finally charge 2d6+3" with a rerool as Saim Han. Thats pretty incredible. Not sure I can get behind some of the frankly comical levels of speed for foot sloggers this book creates.

Eldar are meant to be incredibly fast. They are fast, and fragile. That's their thing. So they should be the fastest, even without using any CP.

Unfortunately IG are still stupidly fast, and they can do it for free.

Conscripts (or any other infantry unit) can move 6" + D6" + 6" + D6"... so up to 24 inches in a turn, for free. They can't shoot or charge though, but for getting into position or blocking an incoming charge its great. And costs no CP. So an entire infantry army can move 14-24 inches on turn 1. Would they want to? Maybe not. But they can.

Crusaders can move 6" + D6" + 6" + D6", and then charge 2D6, so a potential 36" charge range, again for zero CP.

Compared to this, your example with Banshees used 3CP, which is probably 30-50% of your total CP pool. I can't see it getting used very often. I'd much rather they could do it for free, like the Imperium units can, considering Eldar are meant to be faster.

Edit: Would in fact be cheaper to just deep strike the banshees in. More effective too, as you'd just need to make the charge. And you can use the CP's you saved on rerolling the charge roll if need be.

Hey look it took you literally one line to start griping about IG for some reason. BTW I play eldar so you can stop trying to explain to me what eldars thing is. It's cringy. They are plenty fast without stratagems. The fact that they got warptime with an 18" range on a model that costs 37 points (probably less now) is mind bendingly good. Especially when you can drop anything you want in the book outside 9" of enemies anywhere on the table. Hey look, 10 wraith(any variety) pop up and can move point blank from a power cast beyond denial range! BTW thats 1cp. But hey, keep moaning on about how you somehow need to burn all the CO's to do something. My example was not meant to demonstrate CP efficiency or a must do combo, it was showing how ludicrously fast anything in this book can be. Even on foot.

Well, the warlock would only be able to cast that warptime move if they're within 18", so they'd only be outside of deny range if the wraithguard deep strike inbetween the enemy and the warlock. So it's hardly guaranteed, depending on positioning. And if the warlock perils, the wraithguard get left out in the open and the warlock dies and does damage to anyone nearby.

So it's a pretty good stratagem, but it's no better than the IG relic that lets a character bring a squad of anything they like in on any turn via deepstrike. Deepstriking a squad of bullgryn, which with appropriate character support (also cheap) can get extra attacks and/or a 2++ invulnerable save. And this again is a relic, so costs zero CP.

I'm not "griping" about IG, I actually like the codex, but you're complaining that Eldar are now too fast, when they're only crazily faster than IG when burning a bunch of CP's to do so, and Eldar do not have many CP's to use. I'd say it works out pretty fairly, on paper. In practise, we won't know until it's tested. Banshees are fast, but way more fragile than a sprinting IG squad. I suspect they'll end up being a novelty unit, and not all that devastating on the table.

Look, I apologize for saying griping on the internet. I didn't mean for it to sound as it does when I reread it. I want you to be excited and positive for the book. There is a ton to be happy with in there. I have a feeling eldar are actually going to tear into the meta with much more of an impact then many are willing to bet. But we will see if I am correct or not.

The bold part highlights my argument btw. Not only is that an inaccurate statement with zero context, but completely derails the discussion again to complaints over IG. Banshees are faster (movement 8") can advance and charge, and add 3" to their charge which can be 15" away. They allow no overwatch, have more attacks, hit more often and have better kit from saves to weapons. Oh and higher leadership. APPLE meet ORANGES.

Preorders are up and I finally bought a collectors pack. I am going to run Dire Avengers so bought 2 packs of the dice to for flavor.

Really excited for this release. 6 Fire Prisms May be back on the table!

Ordered a Bonesinger and I don't even play Eldar. That is one the coolest Eldar models around.

 rollawaythestone wrote:
Ordered a Bonesinger and I don't even play Eldar. That is one the coolest Eldar models around.

It is very strange that they're making rules for it.. if it does end up being an Eldar repair unit, it's odd that it's the only one available... and the model is only available for 1 week.

Perhaps they're planning on returning it for the long term, but have it in this 1 week made-to-order thing as a tester and a boost to sales, before they then go in a couple months "due to popularity, here's the Bonesinger!"

So do we know if the older start collecting for Eldar and Nids are being discontinued or not, then?

Niiru wrote:

 rollawaythestone wrote:
Ordered a Bonesinger and I don't even play Eldar. That is one the coolest Eldar models around.

It is very strange that they're making rules for it.. if it does end up being an Eldar repair unit, it's odd that it's the only one available... and the model is only available for 1 week.

Perhaps they're planning on returning it for the long term, but have it in this 1 week made-to-order thing as a tester and a boost to sales, before they then go in a couple months "due to popularity, here's the Bonesinger!"

As its GW difficult to predict - they do odd things...They made a finecast(!) Canoness for sisters - were shocked by its popularity and begrudgingly made more when it sold out. Then did not bother to give her rules in the Index.

The easiest thing would be for them to just say you can use a warlock or Farseer as a Bonesinger.

They have their no models no rules - except for stuff that doesn't and does - Grandmaster babycarrier can only be made by converting.

The problem with IG isn't really their traits, it's their points. The ravenguard combination of trait and stratagem is still probably the best thing going, but isn't as mad as IG because the points for marines are are more or less ok.

So they are better than other marines (apart from Guilliman parking lots, because Guilliman) but not better than all other armies.

I thought they said they would be breaking up the Ynnari pack?

Any reason why the wraitbknight doesnt have more weapon option combos? Why not wraithcannon/shield? Suncannon/wraithcannon?

I have never even looked at the Wraithknight profile but Eldar have always been big (including titans) on dual wielded weapons, etc...or perhaps they're afraid they'd be too effective with one apiece, etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jacob29 wrote:
I thought they said they would be breaking up the Ynnari pack?

I never saw that they were breaking them up - they did state they would re-package with 8th edition rules included in the box. I think this is one of the boxes they may not bother splitting up because they're all one faction. It makes sense with the other box where you're splitting up models for various factions/armies...but if you're buying one Ynnari fancy model you probably need them all.

 bullyboy wrote:
Any reason why the wraitbknight doesnt have more weapon option combos? Why not wraithcannon/shield? Suncannon/wraithcannon?

Good question - sheer laziness?

changemod wrote:
So do we know if the older start collecting for Eldar and Nids are being discontinued or not, then?

They have been replaced, I know the older Eldar one had been unavailable for a few months before this release anyway

The old one is still widely available, including in GW stores at the moment.

A new spiritseer model would be nice... but bonesinger count as works for me.

Looks like Autarchs lost all their wargear options. Regular Autarchs have a power fist equivalent (6 point star glaive), winged autarchs have a fusion pistol and power sword, and skyrunners have a power sword (can be replaced with laser lance or fusion gun).

Autarch Skyrunner can't have both a fusion gun and a laser lance anymore? I was quite liking that combination and was looking forward to try combining it with the Warlord Trait that allows you to shoot it at characters.

Where did you get that from?

 Redemption wrote:
Autarch Skyrunner can't have both a fusion gun and a laser lance anymore? I was quite liking that combination and was looking forward to try combining it with the Warlord Trait that allows you to shoot it at characters.

Where did you get that from?

StrikingScorpion82's review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ne8vBVT8N0 (also he goes over points for a bunch of things)

Jacob29 wrote:
I thought they said they would be breaking up the Ynnari pack?

Nope, repacking with there 8th rules included as they are not in the Craftworld Codex.

Dionysodorus wrote:
Looks like Autarchs lost all their wargear options. Regular Autarchs have a power fist equivalent (6 point star glaive), winged autarchs have a fusion pistol and power sword, and skyrunners have a power sword (can be replaced with laser lance or fusion gun).

Nooo, that's sad... Do you mean the winged autarch cannot take a fusion gun? What's the point of the trait kournos hunter than?.....please don't tell me the reaper launcher also

Will the new ynnari rules in the repackaged box be the same as the index rules?

 The only jp wrote:
Will the new ynnari rules in the repackaged box be the same as the index rules?

Supposedly, they're identical, but we won't know for sure until it's released.

In that case, assuming the rules for detachments are the same as any other codex, surely we'd be able to stack ynnari rules on top of a craftworld detatchment? The yannri doesn't replace or remove the craftworld keyword, and as long as yvraine/visarch/yncarne is the warlord in a separate detachment to an all craftworld detachment (required to get the benefits) we should get both.

Obviously this assumes that there isn't a specific call out in the codex saying you can't get both