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There is an entry in the Codex which basically states that use of Ynnari in the army completely invalidates the Craftworld rules/stratagems, etc.

Yes, what are the relics for running CWE?

Been trying to track all the point changes across things, think i've got everything with the exception of:

Wave Serpent (base cost)
Twin Bright Lance (assuming its also cheaper like the other twin weapons)

Anyone seen a review that covers these and any possible changes?

I thought there was something that allowed units to ignore the moving penalty for heavy weapons?

 quickfuze wrote:
I thought there was something that allowed units to ignore the moving penalty for heavy weapons?

Just Saim-Hann Biker units.

 quickfuze wrote:
I thought there was something that allowed units to ignore the moving penalty for heavy weapons?

The Saim-Hann trait and it's only for Jetbikes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DivineVisitor wrote:
Been trying to track all the point changes across things, think i've got everything with the exception of:

Wave Serpent (base cost)
Twin Bright Lance (assuming its also cheaper like the other twin weapons)

Anyone seen a review that covers these and any possible changes?

I've not seen those, I've been looking around for concrete changes to single Bright Lances and Shuriken Cannons myself

I'm reading differing reports saying Dire Avengers are either 12 or 13 points, mostly the latter. Not a major deal either way but I am curious.

Caederes wrote:

 quickfuze wrote:
I thought there was something that allowed units to ignore the moving penalty for heavy weapons?

The Saim-Hann trait and it's only for Jetbikes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DivineVisitor wrote:
Been trying to track all the point changes across things, think i've got everything with the exception of:

Wave Serpent (base cost)
Twin Bright Lance (assuming its also cheaper like the other twin weapons)

Anyone seen a review that covers these and any possible changes?

I've not seen those, I've been looking around for concrete changes to single Bright Lances and Shuriken Cannons myself

I'm reading differing reports saying Dire Avengers are either 12 or 13 points, mostly the latter. Not a major deal either way but I am curious.

From what i've uncovered thus far your queries are as follows:
Shuriken Cannon - 10 (17 for Twin)
Bright Lance 20 (40 for Twin)
Avengers 12 (8 base, 4 for Avenger Catapults)

With regards to options that were in the Index but not in the codex how have GW advised players to act? Im aware Rough Riders can still be used from their Index entry but what in the case of simple weapon options missing from units? And if those units have special rules that have changed from the Index to the Codex which do you use? And do they benefit from any Army Traits?

One of the major gripes i have about the new Codex's is the removal of options (in some but not all cases) due to them not selling a model with said options. It's causing me a major headache. The Autarch in particular has been hit hard by this due to the discontinuation of previous Autarch models.

I could see it being interpreted in a few ways.

1) Use the Index points and Index special rules, ignore any changes made in the new Codex to the unit
2) Use Index points but use updated special rules from new Codex for the unit
3) Use new Codex points and updated special rules from new Codex but allow the unit access to the same options it had in the Index

Anyone able to provide any insight into this?

Could someone confirm the costs for warlocks?

It would also be amazing to have a more detailed understanding of their power generation as a conclave (lots of different iterations, mainly people calling them rubbish)

As all of the videos seem unclear. As I understand they are cheaper in a conclave than as individuals? This is my understanding thus far:

Warlock: 35pts
Warlock sky runner: 65pts

Warlock conclave: 30pts per model minimum 2
Warlock skyrunner conclave: 60ptd per model minimum 2

Singing spear: 4pts

So a large conclave of 10 with singing spears = 640 pts?

Totally understand they're not optimum. Would just like to understand for fun games.

 Elbows wrote:
There is an entry in the Codex which basically states that use of Ynnari in the army completely invalidates the Craftworld rules/stratagems, etc.

What, seriously?

Just straight like that?

I can't believe it. That's the dumbest thing ever. Wasn't forcing us to field a separate detachment for the Ynnari characters and losing traits and relics enough? They had to make Ynnari the blandest army in 8th with no access to stratagems?

If it's like that I'm shelving my army. I'm fortunate because I had only purchased the Triumvirate and a few CWE and Harlequin models.

And please don't tell me Ynnari are fine power level wise. Stratagems are a big thing in 8th, and all revised armies are getting them. Not having them handicaps Ynnari, and SfD doesn't compensate it in the slightest. But most importantly, stratagems give armies another layer of complexity and tactics, they make them fun.

PD: B plan - use Yncarne as Avatar of Khaine, Yvraine as Eldrad, Visarch as any decent CWE character (we win here), Harlequin troupe as Banshees and call it a deal. I don't love it but it's better than play a handicapped army until GW decide to release proper rules for them.

 DanielFM wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
There is an entry in the Codex which basically states that use of Ynnari in the army completely invalidates the Craftworld rules/stratagems, etc.

What, seriously?

Just straight like that?

I can't believe it. That's the dumbest thing ever. Wasn't forcing us to field a separate detachment for the Ynnari characters and losing traits and relics enough? They had to make Ynnari the blandest army in 8th with no access to stratagems?

If it's like that I'm shelving my army. I'm fortunate because I had only purchased the Triumvirate and a few CWE and Harlequin models.

And please don't tell me Ynnari are fine power level wise. Stratagems are a big thing in 8th, and all revised armies are getting them. Not having them handicaps Ynnari, and SfD doesn't compensate it in the slightest. But most importantly, stratagems give armies another layer of complexity and tactics, they make them fun.

PD: B plan - use Yncarne as Avatar of Khaine, Yvraine as Eldrad, Visarch as any decent CWE character (we win here), Harlequin troupe as Banshees and call it a deal. I don't love it but it's better than play a handicapped army until GW decide to release proper rules for them.

You can use the stratagems, you just can't use the 'craftworld attributes' (as that would obviously be insanely OP). You also don't get objective secured on your troops.

 Marfuzzo wrote:

Dionysodorus wrote:
Looks like Autarchs lost all their wargear options. Regular Autarchs have a power fist equivalent (6 point star glaive), winged autarchs have a fusion pistol and power sword, and skyrunners have a power sword (can be replaced with laser lance or fusion gun).

Nooo, that's sad... Do you mean the winged autarch cannot take a fusion gun? What's the point of the trait kournos hunter than?.....please don't tell me the reaper launcher also

Yeah, judging from SS82's video they're all gone apparently. The Autarch on foot and the one with Swooping Hawk Wings now have fixed wargear, and the Autarch Skyrunner comes with a power sword which he can replace with either a laser lance or fusion gun.

Was looking forward to using a Saim-Hann Autarch Skyrunner with the shoot at characters warlord trait, a fusion gun, the relic lance and a banshee mask to go hunt characters. I suppose you could use the Autarch Skyrunner entry from the index, but would that mean you have to use the old Path of Command and banshee mask rules, as they're on the datasheet?

MaLiKAR wrote:

 DanielFM wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
There is an entry in the Codex which basically states that use of Ynnari in the army completely invalidates the Craftworld rules/stratagems, etc.

What, seriously?

Just straight like that?

I can't believe it. That's the dumbest thing ever. Wasn't forcing us to field a separate detachment for the Ynnari characters and losing traits and relics enough? They had to make Ynnari the blandest army in 8th with no access to stratagems?

If it's like that I'm shelving my army. I'm fortunate because I had only purchased the Triumvirate and a few CWE and Harlequin models.

And please don't tell me Ynnari are fine power level wise. Stratagems are a big thing in 8th, and all revised armies are getting them. Not having them handicaps Ynnari, and SfD doesn't compensate it in the slightest. But most importantly, stratagems give armies another layer of complexity and tactics, they make them fun.

PD: B plan - use Yncarne as Avatar of Khaine, Yvraine as Eldrad, Visarch as any decent CWE character (we win here), Harlequin troupe as Banshees and call it a deal. I don't love it but it's better than play a handicapped army until GW decide to release proper rules for them.

You can use the stratagems, you just can't use the 'craftworld attributes' (as that would obviously be insanely OP). You also don't get objective secured on your troops.

That's way more reasonable. Can you confirm it from the alleged paragraph of the new book? That's how everyone supposed it would work before, but Elbows clearly stated no stratagems for Ynnari. That's what triggered me.

 DanielFM wrote:

MaLiKAR wrote:

 DanielFM wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
There is an entry in the Codex which basically states that use of Ynnari in the army completely invalidates the Craftworld rules/stratagems, etc.

What, seriously?

Just straight like that?

I can't believe it. That's the dumbest thing ever. Wasn't forcing us to field a separate detachment for the Ynnari characters and losing traits and relics enough? They had to make Ynnari the blandest army in 8th with no access to stratagems?

If it's like that I'm shelving my army. I'm fortunate because I had only purchased the Triumvirate and a few CWE and Harlequin models.

And please don't tell me Ynnari are fine power level wise. Stratagems are a big thing in 8th, and all revised armies are getting them. Not having them handicaps Ynnari, and SfD doesn't compensate it in the slightest. But most importantly, stratagems give armies another layer of complexity and tactics, they make them fun.

PD: B plan - use Yncarne as Avatar of Khaine, Yvraine as Eldrad, Visarch as any decent CWE character (we win here), Harlequin troupe as Banshees and call it a deal. I don't love it but it's better than play a handicapped army until GW decide to release proper rules for them.

You can use the stratagems, you just can't use the 'craftworld attributes' (as that would obviously be insanely OP). You also don't get objective secured on your troops.

That's way more reasonable. Can you confirm it from the alleged paragraph of the new book? That's how everyone supposed it would work before, but Elbows clearly stated no stratagems for Ynnari. That's what triggered me.

The exact wording:

Ynnari is a keyword that some units in this book can gain when taken as part of a reborn army as detailed in other publications. If a detachment includes any Ynnari units it is no longer a craftworld detachment and will not gain either of the abilities below: The abilities listed are objective secured and the craft world attributes.

Without having the book I couldn't tell you with all certainty, but I think the key is that Ynnari gain Ynnari keyword but don't lose Craftworld keyword, so should still synergise with a lot of the stratagems which simply pick craftworld or asuryani units rather than specific craftworlds like Iyanden Ulthwe etc.

Otherwise I could be entirely wrong and it does completely rule out the two opening up space for a unique Ynnari codex.

Going from the table top tactics battle report what’s said above is correct as ynnari wouldn’t benefit from the autarchs path of command ability either, basically being ynnari means you lose access to the craftworld traits, warlord traits, relics and strategems but still have access to the generic warlord traits, relics and strategems.


Does anyone know if the Phoenix gem is one time only or every time the character dies? would be pretty hilarious to run a character in to a large group of enemies and have a good chance to keep exploding and sticking around.

Of course you don't even gain access to the stratagems if you don't have at least one Craftworld detachment in your army.

Would also not be surprised if they rule at one point that you cannot use stratagems on units outside of 'Space Marine detachments', 'Craftworld detachments' etc at some point in the future.

I'd be very surprised if once the DE and Harlies get there 8th codex's the Ynnari are not in line to get there own book.

That or the booklet with the triumvirate will come with some updates?

 Redemption wrote:

 Marfuzzo wrote:

Dionysodorus wrote:
Looks like Autarchs lost all their wargear options. Regular Autarchs have a power fist equivalent (6 point star glaive), winged autarchs have a fusion pistol and power sword, and skyrunners have a power sword (can be replaced with laser lance or fusion gun).

Nooo, that's sad... Do you mean the winged autarch cannot take a fusion gun? What's the point of the trait kournos hunter than?.....please don't tell me the reaper launcher also

Yeah, judging from SS82's video they're all gone apparently. The Autarch on foot and the one with Swooping Hawk Wings now have fixed wargear, and the Autarch Skyrunner comes with a power sword which he can replace with either a laser lance or fusion gun.

Was looking forward to using a Saim-Hann Autarch Skyrunner with the shoot at characters warlord trait, a fusion gun, the relic lance and a banshee mask to go hunt characters. I suppose you could use the Autarch Skyrunner entry from the index, but would that mean you have to use the old Path of Command and banshee mask rules, as they're on the datasheet?

That’s a shame, especially as the old Autarch with rocket launcher is available again (albeit limited) might think twice about buying it now.

Yeah, that's a kind of goofy likely outcome of how legacy index models are handled. They tell you to use the old datasheet but the newer points. So yeah, you're likely stuck with the old wording of all changed abilities.

Sadly, this wording kind of destroys any kind of functional Ynnari+CWE army: even if you field the Ynnari model un a different detachment, the moment you give the Ynnari keyword the CWE detachment units they stop being a Craftworld detachment, thus losing access to traits, relics but also Stratagems (even if they don't appear explicitly un the wording, only a Craftworld detachment can use Craftworld stratagems, right?).
And they had the nerve to repack the Triumvirate with this release ò_ó. "Hey, you can field this awesome models together with the CWE in a completely disfunctional, bland army! Nice!".

Unless there are expanded rules in the box (highly unlikely) ir some kind of beefing up un the Chapter Approved this winter, I think we are doomed to wait years for a real Ynnari army.

The count-as option is gaining weight...

It'd be weird if they made a new faction and just left them in the index. Hopefully GW make some Ynnari specific troop and vehicle so they can put it in a codex, like the tempestus codex.

Ynnari seem to be doing pretty well with the Index so far and they haven't actually lost a single thing they had 2-3 days ago. Quite the opposite, some of the things they can take got cheaper and/or have a better statline (e.g. Wraithguard). Not a single thing got a points increase as far as I am aware.

Having Ynnari wait a bit longer for their own Strategems, etc.. isn't any more a nerf or unfair than having Orks, Space Wolves or Tau wait for theirs.



Indeed, as non-Ynnari Craftworld Index armies were arguably much rarer than Ynnair Index armies, it seems quite fitting that they started the Eldar-train with the arguably least-played/weakest pointy-ears faction from the Index (and if the Codex power creep of the recent books keeps going, Craftworld may well end up being the weakest again once all the books are out).

Maybe they'll get merged in with the Harlequins? They would also be a pretty short codex with their current range, so having them share a book could make sense.

Thank's to scorpion we know basically all the point costs, I already modified my list and I could fit about 240 pts more with 7 cps.
Overall I'm pretty happy with this new codex, the only thing that really disappointed me are the autarchs :(... The warp jump pack one is gone, and I have mine converted who looks gorgeous, and I was planning to do a sniper one but is not possible at all to do, shame on them. The relics for them are pretty meh...
It's unbelievable that cause they don't want to do a proper new kit they just cut rules...
About the ynnari rule I honestly don't mind as an old Eldar player I would focus on the craftworlds in any case

Wonderwolf wrote:
Ynnari seem to be doing pretty well with the Index so far and they haven't actually lost a single thing they had 2-3 days ago. Quite the opposite, some of the things they can take got cheaper and/or have a better statline (e.g. Wraithguard). Not a single thing got a points increase as far as I am aware.

Having Ynnari wait a bit longer for their own Strategems, etc.. isn't any more a nerf or unfair than having Orks, Space Wolves or Tau wait for theirs.



Indeed, as non-Ynnari Craftworld Index armies were arguably much rarer than Ynnair Index armies, it seems quite fitting that they started the Eldar-train with the arguably least-played/weakest pointy-ears faction from the Index (and if the Codex power creep of the recent books keeps going, Craftworld may well end up being the weakest again once all the books are out).

As I said before, it's not mainly about being competitive, but about being fun to play. When you lack almost half of the mechsnics other armies get, it sure feels like you are playing a half-made army.
Yet, every army which is released including stratagems, warlord traits and relics make Ynnari comparatively weaker.
Is it actually the same as having Orks or Tau waiting for their turn? Not at all. We know those armies are scheduled for release sooner or later. We also know that the other two Eldar factions are very likely to be released before they even consider Ynnari. In fact, we don't even have confirmation Ynnari will get a full release anytime. Hardly the same, IMHO.

Well, enough with being salty. Count-as it will be!

Ultimately the points costs are what really matters, and Eldar have been handed a huge buff here.

From what we can see now, I expect to see Alaitoc armies as top tier - or very close to it. It looks like they even have a decent chance against tank companies.

One of the really big things will be turn one charges from fast units like banshees. I expect they'll be a very welcome threat to parking lots, because quite large numbers of them can be fielded. They won't do a lot of damage but they'll suppress a lot, while other units get the real work done. You can deep strike three units (or maybe just a couple, plus some fire dragons or something) and charge people all over the place.

Wraithknights that can move twice will also radically change things. They'll go from far away where the enemy has -1 to hit to stomping on your face in the blink of an eye.

I think units like vypers might well end up having a really key role in tying down enemy shooters. A squad could engage a number of enemy tanks at once, forcing them to fall back and miss shots (if they can even move away). They'll be all over people like a rash I think, if there aren't really serious units around ready to counter-charge them.

Meanwhile units like jetbikes and dire avengers will make really solid midfield fighters and objective grabbers, thanks to being difficult to shoot and reasonably-priced.

My understanding, following Lawrence from Tabletop Tactics reading the rule out verbatem in his Ulthwe battle report yesterday, is that an army that has any Ynnari models in it looses access to the ObSec rule and all of the Craftworld Traits.

However, it's still entirely possible to run an army with an Ynnari detachment and a Craftworlds detachment. The Craftworlds detachment wont get the above mentioned benefits but would still unlock access to the strategems and at least the generic Warlord traits and relics if not the Craftworld specific ones. This is how I've taken it since it works for Space Marines.

 Imateria wrote:
My understanding, following Lawrence from Tabletop Tactics reading the rule out verbatem in his Ulthwe battle report yesterday, is that an army that has any Ynnari models in it looses access to the ObSec rule and all of the Craftworld Traits.

However, it's still entirely possible to run an army with an Ynnari detachment and a Craftworlds detachment. The Craftworlds detachment wont get the above mentioned benefits but would still unlock access to the strategems and at least the generic Warlord traits and relics if not the Craftworld specific ones. This is how I've taken it since it works for Space Marines.

Yeah, but the moment you give Ynnari keyword to the CWE detachment, they lose access to all of this. And if you don't give it to them, what's the point of fielding Ynnari?

The point of fielding Ynnari is that you get an excellent Trait (Strength from Death) and access to more unit options than going from one book alone (Eldar, DE, Harlies), plus access to the 3 characters. My expectation is that if you play Ynnari, you lose any Craftworld trait, Craftworld related warlord traits, and any specific Craftworld relics or strategems. Generic units strategems should be fine.

 Mantle wrote:
Does anyone know if the Phoenix gem is one time only or every time the character dies? would be pretty hilarious to run a character in to a large group of enemies and have a good chance to keep exploding and sticking around.

I think I've heard it on stream that it was "the first time the bearer dies".