New Craftworlds Codex, Made to Order week etc UPDATED [Pre-order/Made to Order Oct 21st]

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**Karhedron**

Niiru wrote:
The only jp wrote:
Will the new ynnari rules in the repackaged box be the same as the index rules?

Supposedly, they're identical, but we won't know for sure until it's released.

I think in one of the FAQs they gave the Visarch a 4++ so hopefully that will be reflected in the new rule sheet.

**Da Once & Future Git**

Does anyone know if the Twin Shuriken Catapults are still a ridiculous 10pts?
It's about the only one I'm missing

**GoatboyBeta**

GW's stated reason for the Ynnari rules in the Triumvirate box is so your not forced to buy the Index to use them alongside Craftworld units. As a bonus(for GW) It also means that once the DE, Harlie and Necron codex's are out they can discontinue Index Xenos vol1.

**Dionysodorus**

Da Once & Future Git wrote:
Does anyone know if the Twin Shuriken Catapults are still a ridiculous 10pts?
It's about the only one I'm missing

They're 5 now.

**DanielFM**

bullyboy wrote:
The point of fielding Ynnari is that you get an excellent Trait (Strength from Death) and access to more unit options than going from one book alone (Eldar, DE, Harlies), plus access to the 3 characters. My expectation is that if you play Ynnari, you lose any Craftworld trait, Craftworld related warlord traits, and any specific Craftworld relics or strategems. Generic units strategems should be fine.

I don't think you understood me well. I meant what's the point of using Ynnari without giving the Ynnari keyword to a whole detachment (in order to have a pure CW detachment with access to stratagems).
The rule says if you have any Ynnari model (not only the special characters) you are not a CW detachment. And as far as I know, if don't have a battleforged Craftworld detachment you can't use Craftworld stratagems (not talking about the specific Craftworld ones, but the "generic Craftworld" ones).

Now that I think about it, the mix-n-match of Ynnari is almost irrelevant when you can field different detachment of Asuryani, Drukkari and Harlequins side by side. The bennefit is minimal.

**Dionysodorus**

DanielFM wrote:
bullyboy wrote:
The point of fielding Ynnari is that you get an excellent Trait (Strength from Death) and access to more unit options than going from one book alone (Eldar, DE, Harlies), plus access to the 3 characters. My expectation is that if you play Ynnari, you lose any Craftworld trait, Craftworld related warlord traits, and any specific Craftworld relics or strategems. Generic units strategems should be fine.

I don't think you understood me well. I meant what's the point of using Ynnari without giving the Ynnari keyword to a whole detachment (in order to have a pure CW detachment with access to stratagems).
The rule says if you have any Ynnari model (not only the special characters) you are not a CW detachment. And as far as I know, if don't have a battleforged Craftworld detachment you can't use Craftworld stratagems (not talking about the specific Craftworld ones, but the "generic Craftworld" ones).

Now that I think about it, the mix-n-match of Ynnari is almost irrelevant when you can field different detachment of Asuryani, Drukkari and Harlequins side by side. The bennefit is minimal.

I mean, the benefit is SfD. You can bring a Spearhead with Yvraine and some Dark Reapers. Also, you can unlock stratagems with a single detachment, and you can pick things that are much better as Craftworld than as Ynnari. If you want to go cheap, 165 points gets you an Alatoic Spiritseer and 2 units of Rangers, plus Craftworld stratagems. A wing of Hemlocks is super-powerful, is always better as Alatoic, and unlocks stratagems.

**Tastyfish**

DanielFM wrote:
Sadly, this wording kind of destroys any kind of functional Ynnari+CWE army: even if you field the Ynnari model un a different detachment, the moment you give the Ynnari keyword the CWE detachment units they stop being a Craftworld detachment, thus losing access to traits, relics but also Stratagems (even if they don't appear explicitly un the wording, only a Craftworld detachment can use Craftworld stratagems, right?).
And they had the nerve to repack the Triumvirate with this release ò_ó. "Hey, you can field this awesome models together with the CWE in a completely disfunctional, bland army! Nice!".

Unless there are expanded rules in the box (highly unlikely) ir some kind of beefing up un the Chapter Approved this winter, I think we are doomed to wait years for a real Ynnari army.

The count-as option is gaining weight...

It's a bit of a mix, Ynnari can use some Stratagems.

If it follow the rules for Imperial armies, armies made of Ynnari detachments wouldn't get the benefits of the craftworld traits or warlord traits, and wouldn't have access to Craftworld strategems.
But an Ynnari army that has a Craftworld detachment would have access to the new strategems and would be able to apply them to Ynnari detachment units, as long as they met the specific requirements - some AdMech strategems will effect <Forge World> Robots, whilst others just effect ADEPTUS MECHANICUS units or Electropriests. The former would be useless to the Ynnari, but Guardians are Guardians wherever they are from.

Fire Prism stratagem is out, and obviously the Craftworld specific ones, but the various Fire and Fade style options are still in. As long as you have a pure Craftworld detachment in your army. Stratagems are not a command benefit to a detachment, they're something at the army level.

**Dionysodorus**

Tastyfish wrote:
DanielFM wrote:
Sadly, this wording kind of destroys any kind of functional Ynnari+CWE army: even if you field the Ynnari model un a different detachment, the moment you give the Ynnari keyword the CWE detachment units they stop being a Craftworld detachment, thus losing access to traits, relics but also Stratagems (even if they don't appear explicitly un the wording, only a Craftworld detachment can use Craftworld stratagems, right?).
And they had the nerve to repack the Triumvirate with this release ò_ó. "Hey, you can field this awesome models together with the CWE in a completely disfunctional, bland army! Nice!".

Unless there are expanded rules in the box (highly unlikely) ir some kind of beefing up un the Chapter Approved this winter, I think we are doomed to wait years for a real Ynnari army.

The count-as option is gaining weight...

It's a bit of a mix, Ynnari can use some Stratagems.

If it follow the rules for Imperial armies, armies made of Ynnari detachments wouldn't get the benefits of the craftworld traits or warlord traits, and wouldn't have access to Craftworld strategems.
But an Ynnari army that has a Craftworld detachment would have access to the new strategems and would be able to apply them to Ynnari detachment units, as long as they met the specific requirements - some AdMech strategems will effect <Forge World> Robots, whilst others just effect ADEPTUS MECHANICUS units or Electropriests. The former would be useless to the Ynnari, but Guardians are Guardians wherever they are from.

Fire Prism stratagem is out, and obviously the Craftworld specific ones, but the various Fire and Fade style options are still in. As long as you have a pure Craftworld detachment in your army. Stratagems are not a command benefit to a detachment, they're something at the army level.

Ynnari units are still <Craftworld> units. It's just that detachments which include any Ynnari units are not "Craftworld Detachments". Ynnari Fire Prisms can make use of the stratagem as long as you've unlocked it with a Craftworld Detachment. Ynnari Alatoic Rangers can make use of the Alatoic stratagem, even.

**Marfuzzo**

Mandragola wrote:
Ultimately the points costs are what really matters, and Eldar have been handed a huge buff here.

From what we can see now, I expect to see Alaitoc armies as top tier - or very close to it. It looks like they even have a decent chance against tank companies.

One of the really big things will be turn one charges from fast units like banshees. I expect they'll be a very welcome threat to parking lots, because quite large numbers of them can be fielded. They won't do a lot of damage but they'll suppress a lot, while other units get the real work done. You can deep strike three units (or maybe just a couple, plus some fire dragons or something) and charge people all over the place.

Wraithknights that can move twice will also radically change things. They'll go from far away where the enemy has -1 to hit to stomping on your face in the blink of an eye.

I think units like vypers might well end up having a really key role in tying down enemy shooters. A squad could engage a number of enemy tanks at once, forcing them to fall back and miss shots (if they can even move away). They'll be all over people like a rash I think, if there aren't really serious units around ready to counter-charge them.

Meanwhile units like jetbikes and dire avengers will make really solid midfield fighters and objective grabbers, thanks to being difficult to shoot and reasonably-priced.

quicken is infantry/bikers only...

**Lythrandire Biehrellian**

They won't drop the index because the options for most weapons loadouts for things like autarchs are still in there.

It's like the special Marine tanks or the rough riders, legacy options are in there to get people to still buy the book.

**Uriels_Flame**

Any update on Asurman? Still have DA buffs and 4+ I bubble?

Lower cost?

**Elbows**

I think the majority of the Phoenix Lords went down like 10-15 points, so nothing major. No big changes that I could see. I watched too many preview videos yesterday though so my brain is foggy with runes.

**Mymearan**

DanielFM wrote:
Sadly, this wording kind of destroys any kind of functional Ynnari+CWE army: even if you field the Ynnari model un a different detachment, the moment you give the Ynnari keyword the CWE detachment units they stop being a Craftworld detachment, thus losing access to traits, relics but also Stratagems (even if they don't appear explicitly un the wording, only a Craftworld detachment can use Craftworld stratagems, right?).
And they had the nerve to repack the Triumvirate with this release ò_ó. "Hey, you can field this awesome models together with the CWE in a completely disfunctional, bland army! Nice!".

Unless there are expanded rules in the box (highly unlikely) ir some kind of beefing up un the Chapter Approved this winter, I think we are doomed to wait years for a real Ynnari army.

The count-as option is gaining weight...

ANY DEtachment can use a stratagem you have access to. So if you have at least one Craftworld detachment to get access to Craftworld stratagems, any Craftworld units in your army can use them, even the ones in an Ynnari detachment.

**Daedalus81**

Mr Morden wrote:
bullyboy wrote:
Any reason why the wraitbknight doesnt have more weapon option combos? Why not wraithcannon/shield? Suncannon/wraithcannon?

Good question - sheer laziness?

Yes, because including all the possible options would have no consequences at all.

**Goobi2**

Its not hard to unlock Craftworld Strats for Ynnari. 3 Warlocks. SfD doesnt mean too much for them and they can throw around handy buffs and debuffs.

**Cream Tea**

Goobi2 wrote:
Its not hard to unlock Craftworld Strats for Ynnari. 3 Warlocks. SfD doesnt mean too much for them and they can throw around handy buffs and debuffs.

As far as I've heard (having not read the codex myself) such a detachment in an Ynnari army would still be an Ynnari detachment and not a Craftworld detachment. The Warlocks become Ynnari by being members of an Ynnari army, and the codex apparently says that Ynnari detachments are not Craftworld detachments, even though the models in them can still be Craftworld models.

**Goobi2**

If you dont take the Ynnari keyword on the Warlocks (it is optional) then it will function as a Craftworlds detachment.

**Niiru**

Goobi2 wrote:
Its not hard to unlock Craftworld Strats for Ynnari. 3 Warlocks. SfD doesnt mean too much for them and they can throw around handy buffs and debuffs.

Well, these Warlocks would bring something to the table if they were Ynnari, as they would die to a strong breeze and trigger SfD. But not if they are fielded as Craftworld. Just a thought.

A better option might be rangers, as they are cheap now and would never soulburst as they're always going to be more than 7" from a dying unit.

I'd probably spend a little more though and go with something like an Alaitoc Battallion. 3 units of Rangers, with a couple warlocks or maybe one Warlock and one Autarch with a Reaper Launcher (if this is still possible). 15 sniper shots with re-rolls of 1's, plus a reaper launcher, with the Rangers having -2 or even -3 to hit... Adds up to something like 260-300 points (depending on hq picks), gets you 3CP and craftworld stratagems, as well as obsec troops.

**Mymearan**

Cream Tea wrote:
Goobi2 wrote:
Its not hard to unlock Craftworld Strats for Ynnari. 3 Warlocks. SfD doesnt mean too much for them and they can throw around handy buffs and debuffs.

As far as I've heard (having not read the codex myself) such a detachment in an Ynnari army would still be an Ynnari detachment and not a Craftworld detachment. The Warlocks become Ynnari by being members of an Ynnari army, and the codex apparently says that Ynnari detachments are not Craftworld detachments, even though the models in them can still be Craftworld models.

No, they don’t automatically become Ynnari.

**Goobi2**

Niiru wrote:
Goobi2 wrote:
Its not hard to unlock Craftworld Strats for Ynnari. 3 Warlocks. SfD doesnt mean too much for them and they can throw around handy buffs and debuffs.

Well, these Warlocks would bring something to the table if they were Ynnari, as they would die to a strong breeze and trigger SfD. But not if they are fielded as Craftworld. Just a thought.

A better option might be rangers, as they are cheap now and would never soulburst as they're always going to be more than 7" from a dying unit.

I'd probably spend a little more though and go with something like an Alaitoc Battallion. 3 units of Rangers, with a couple warlocks or maybe one Warlock and one Autarch with a Reaper Launcher (if this is still possible). 15 sniper shots with re-rolls of 1's, plus a reaper launcher, with the Rangers having -2 or even -3 to hit... Adds up to something like 260-300 points (depending on hq picks), gets you 3CP and craftworld stratagems, as well as obsec troops.

Warlocks bring plenty to the table as is.

Even not as Ynnari they can trigger SfD for other units near by. They can know very useful powers such as Quicken (which could be used to get those Ynnari Shining Spears across the board very quickly, who would still be able to Soul Burst that turn). And they can know Protect and Conceal to keep your hard hitters alive, or even use Jinx to help mow down enemy units. Being Craftworld, and unlocking the stratagems, they can double the range of those powers and cast from relative safety if need be.

For nearly half the cost of those Rangers, you'll get a few psykers that will have a more obvious effect on the the game. And for Obsec Troops, there is a pretty good chance Ynnari will have those too in December via Chapter Approved. But, if you absolutely need it now the Ranger method may be for you.

**DivineVisitor**

Think im now praying that GW release an Autarch and Autarch Skyrunner kit with full weapon options so we can get our Autarch back.

That an an Avatar the size of Magnus the Red like in the Artwork please

**Niiru**

Goobi2 wrote:
Niiru wrote:
Goobi2 wrote:
Its not hard to unlock Craftworld Strats for Ynnari. 3 Warlocks. SfD doesnt mean too much for them and they can throw around handy buffs and debuffs.

Well, these Warlocks would bring something to the table if they were Ynnari, as they would die to a strong breeze and trigger SfD. But not if they are fielded as Craftworld. Just a thought.

A better option might be rangers, as they are cheap now and would never soulburst as they're always going to be more than 7" from a dying unit.

I'd probably spend a little more though and go with something like an Alaitoc Battallion. 3 units of Rangers, with a couple warlocks or maybe one Warlock and one Autarch with a Reaper Launcher (if this is still possible). 15 sniper shots with re-rolls of 1's, plus a reaper launcher, with the Rangers having -2 or even -3 to hit... Adds up to something like 260-300 points (depending on hq picks), gets you 3CP and craftworld stratagems, as well as obsec troops.

Warlocks bring plenty to the table as is.

Even not as Ynnari they can trigger SfD for other units near by. They can know very useful powers such as Quicken (which could be used to get those Ynnari Shining Spears across the board very quickly, who would still be able to Soul Burst that turn). And they can know Protect and Conceal to keep your hard hitters alive, or even use Jinx to help mow down enemy units. Being Craftworld, and unlocking the stratagems, they can double the range of those powers and cast from relative safety if need be.

For nearly half the cost of those Rangers, you'll get a few psykers that will have a more obvious effect on the the game. And for Obsec Troops, there is a pretty good chance Ynnari will have those too in December via Chapter Approved. But, if you absolutely need it now the Ranger method may be for you.

You're right, sorry I had been thinking that a friendly unit dying only triggers soulburst if it is a friendly Ynnari unit. But it just says "any unit", so the warlocks can just be Craftworld and still trigger soulburst when they die. Probably the cheapest option, not too bad.

Though Rangers are now decent, and they don't benefit from soulburst, so no harm getting 3 extra CP's out of the deal. Especially as stratagems are at least as important/powerful as a warlock power.

**DarknessEternal**

So naked Wraithknights are still 82 points more than the objectively superior naked Imperial Knight?

**Niiru**

DarknessEternal wrote:
So naked Wraithknights are still 82 points more than the objectively superior naked Imperial Knight?

Seems so. I mean, you get a Wraithknight with a 6+++ FnP, or a Wraithknight with -1 to hit... or you can have the non-degrading damage table. All good buffs, really. Still not worth the 100 points it is overcosted I don't think.

**Mandragola**

Marfuzzo wrote:
Mandragola wrote:
Wraithknights that can move twice will also radically change things. They'll go from far away where the enemy has -1 to hit to stomping on your face in the blink of an eye.

quicken is infantry/bikers only...

It is, but I understand that there's also a stratagem which does something similar. A unit can move after shooting, including to charge - according to the guy with the review video (who gets things wrong from time to time).

The stratagem might have a similar restriction on it, or the guy who read it in the video may have got it wrong, in which case ignore me. Use deep striking wraithblades instead.

Even so, options like deep striking howling banshees look like they will be highly effective. That extra 3" of charge range, along with immunity to oerwatch, makes the chances of them getting in far better. And units like vypers, with their move of 20 (if in squadrons) will be excellent for locking tanks in combat, regardless of any psychic powers or stratagems.

**DivineVisitor**

Mandragola wrote:
Marfuzzo wrote:
Mandragola wrote:
Wraithknights that can move twice will also radically change things. They'll go from far away where the enemy has -1 to hit to stomping on your face in the blink of an eye.

quicken is infantry/bikers only...

It is, but I understand that there's also a stratagem which does something similar. A unit can move after shooting, including to charge - according to the guy with the review video (who gets things wrong from time to time).

The stratagem might have a similar restriction on it, or the guy who read it in the video may have got it wrong, in which case ignore me. Use deep striking wraithblades instead.

Even so, options like deep striking howling banshees look like they will be highly effective. That extra 3" of charge range, along with immunity to oerwatch, makes the chances of them getting in far better. And units like vypers, with their move of 20 (if in squadrons) will be excellent for locking tanks in combat, regardless of any psychic powers or stratagems.

Can't charge after move shoot move stratagem.

**Marfuzzo**

Now that commisars are super nerfed I think a squad of 10 swooping hawks will be a fix presence in my list
40 shots,,,4 str 5, 36 str 3, with a guide on them is a monstruos amount of anti light infantry fire power, they only cost 133 pts,,,deep strike, mortal wounds, long range, super mobility.
must have against conscript, termagant, hellions etc etc

**Kdash**

I made a "quick" overview of the main points and unit changes in another post -

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/742637.page#9660935

Some interesting changes have been made. I've not done anything with the stratagems, relics or powers yet as i haven't finished watching one of the vids.

**Uriels_Flame**

Are Fire Prisms still random shots, or did they make the 3 shots a fixed amount?

**Crusaderobr**

Are starcannons still d3 damage? or a flat 2?