Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hello,

Feel free to start a thread discussing the licensing aspect in the appropriate subforum.

But please stick to discussing news and rumors in this thread.

There doesn't seem to be any news about or rumors regarding FFG losing the SW license. So discussing speculation about whether/when/how that might happen is off-topic here.

Thanks!

The Fleet Troopers are out now... You can fight that battle on the Star Destroyer/ Tantive IV from either Star Wars, or The Rogue One movies...

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2018/1/24/defend-the-fleet/

As much as Star Wars Pissed me off, I really am starting to like the look of these figures. It is pretty quiet in the game front, but HOW DOES THIS GAME PLAY? Do You Like It? Is It Easy to get into?
I want to get a squad of Stormtroopers, and a squad of these fleet guys to try out. I'll probably use that paint tutorial for the Imperial Assault for them to get them on the table.

My problem with the Fleet Troopers is that they don't match the Endor commando theme of the other figures. The Laser Cannon is from Hoth too (as are Veers, the Snowtroopers, and E-Web team). I know there is only 3 (maybe 4 or 5) movies to choose from, and there's even fewer large battle scenes, but it just feels too hodge podge for me. And what happens after the Endor and Hoth battles have been milked? Will the Empire be running Gamorian Guards, Snow Troopers, Tuskin Raiders, and Royal Guard led by the Emperor versus the Rebel's Ewoks, Bothans, Fleet Troopers, and Pit Droids led by Lando?

I really like Legion's gameplay, but there's something off about its use of Star Wars that I just can't put my finger on. It doesn't seem to come together as a cohesive whole to me, and it isn't just that the units are all willy nilly. Maybe it needs to have just a few named Rebel characters and a few grunts versus a much larger Imperial army or something. It feels weird for the Rebels to have the same number of people on the field.

We have the Scarif battle too and the scenes on the Jedi planet (with the hovertank), and all of the Rebels cartoon (so Lothal resistance fighters, Mandalorians, etc.)

There’s been four Star Wars battlefront games, and FFG has been shown to be open to the Expanded Universe, so there’s more there as well.

I’m really hoping though, they pick up the Clone Wars. That’s where the options for ground combat truly lie, I feel.

I painted up my snowtroopers with grey leathers instead of the tan/white. Gives them more of a shocktrooper feel and less specifically snow based.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grot 6 wrote:
HOW DOES THIS GAME PLAY? Do You Like It? Is It Easy to get into?

I like it quite a bit. Activation control still matters like it does in every alternating activation game, but their are some good systems that still give you options. It plays fast and involved with some interesting decisions that give you a couple points each game where clever choices can really pay off. It's really all about the command, orders and suppression mechanics though. Those things all work together into something greater than the sum of their parts.

At the moment its really easy to get into. If you can find someone to swap half a core set with, you've got the building blocks of a solic army for either side. One of the big drawbacks currently is that there's not a ton of options, but that also means you just kind of play with what's available and don't worry too much about picking the right stuff. Imperial side, I've thus far been pretty happy with everything I own, with the only "bad combo" I've found to be Vader and an AT-ST in the same list. I'm definitely anxious to add E-Webs, Scouts, and Boba Fett to my arsenal to shake up my list archetype options, but there's 2 or 3 distinct styles I've been happy with even under the fairly small set of options.

Can you play this game without including Vader, Luke and other heroes in the lists?

I don't like the Vader vs. Luke aspect of the game actually...

Grunts vs. Mooks battles might be up to my alley more though.

Right now Imperials have to include either Vader or Veers. Rebels have to include either Luke or Leia (or soon Han).

 Sqorgar wrote:
My problem with the Fleet Troopers is that they don't match the Endor commando theme of the other figures. The Laser Cannon is from Hoth too (as are Veers, the Snowtroopers, and E-Web team). I know there is only 3 (maybe 4 or 5) movies to choose from, and there's even fewer large battle scenes, but it just feels too hodge podge for me. And what happens after the Endor and Hoth battles have been milked? Will the Empire be running Gamorian Guards, Snow Troopers, Tuskin Raiders, and Royal Guard led by the Emperor versus the Rebel's Ewoks, Bothans, Fleet Troopers, and Pit Droids led by Lando?

I really like Legion's gameplay, but there's something off about its use of Star Wars that I just can't put my finger on. It doesn't seem to come together as a cohesive whole to me, and it isn't just that the units are all willy nilly. Maybe it needs to have just a few named Rebel characters and a few grunts versus a much larger Imperial army or something. It feels weird for the Rebels to have the same number of people on the field.

This has been my issue with this entire concept from the start.

The Galactic Civil War wasn't. It was a partisan action from bands of rebels conducting sabotage, espionage and the (very) occasional pitched fleet or fighter battle. There was no war, in the traditional sense.

The Clone Wars would'a been a better topic. That actually had campaigns, armies, battle lines, and so on.

 Sqorgar wrote:
And what happens after the Endor and Hoth battles have been milked? Will the Empire be running Gamorian Guards, Snow Troopers, Tuskin Raiders, and Royal Guard led by the Emperor versus the Rebel's Ewoks, Bothans, Fleet Troopers, and Pit Droids led by Lando?

Once as much sensible stuff has been mined from the OT films, Rebels, Rogue One etc as possible, then just start using these:




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:


The Clone Wars would'a been a better topic. That actually had campaigns, armies, battle lines, and so on.

No thanks! Like with X wing, including prequel material will personally be a death knell for this game.

I generally agree that Clone Wars is better suited to a wargame, but I think the actual scale of the game works pretty well for GCW era as well. The game is way closer to Endor than anything else in scale.

That said, I really, really want to see the Droid army in the game. They've got a great variety of interesting unit options and honestly, I could shoot down Rogers all day and never tire of it.

I didn't mean to start another argument in here. Like I said, the game doesn't feel very Star Wars to me, and I'm having trouble figuring out exactly why. It may just be a bunch of little things that just keep adding up. The weird thing is, the Star Wars Miniature Game (the WEG ones) felt like Star Wars to me, and I'm not sure what the appreciable difference is.

I will say that Clone Wars would fit much better, in that there are generally a bunch of grunts out there (and a wide variety of them seen in the movies) with a few important generals. Clone Wars also had a dozen massive conflicts on a dozen different planets. Through the Clone Wars tv series, we got a lot of named characters, interesting conflicts, and cool scenarios. And I think the Legion system would be perfect for those kinds of battles.

If only Star Wars fans didn't have an unreasonable hatred of the prequels...

 Sqorgar wrote:
If only Star Wars fans didn't have an unreasonable hatred of the prequels...

Yeah, I am uncertain of my own "hatred" of the prequels.
I think I was 8 years old and went to see the very first Star Wars movie with my dad (Episode 4 now?).
Clone Wars have a very different "feel", a different style within the IP.

I think there are two main items that seemed to define the "original Star Wars":

- Jedi Knight / Dark Forces, X-wing/Tie-Fighter, KOTOR1/2 captures the original "feel" as games, I think it always gave the feeling there was so much insane history and scope to the universe there was always something new/old/forgotten to explore. Slowly understanding just how nuts the Death Star was for the first time was insane.
- I think the overall message seemed to be that a small group of powerful "characters" can change the fate of the universe. Every mission or adventure had the excitement a bit like a heist movie: go into a well defended / difficult environment, do the job, get out, don't get caught.

The "new" Star Wars seems to be very much caught up in the "scope of things", cool looking vistas, exciting racing and different beings/races.
Clone Wars and variants seemed to focus on the scope of the Republic / Empire and the trappings of power/politics and mobilization of military might.
The entertaining heroes seem to get lost in the crowd.


I have seen this done to good effect with Marvel and even with the armies in Black Panther, it still had that close focused appeal (fair comparison with Disney ownership... )

With the updates to X-wing the tabletop game, they already had characters but now a few are more "characterful" since they now acknowledge force powers.
Units need to still have power to them and not be utter chaff to characters but they are the "meat and potatoes", the backdrop or foil for the heroes to tell their story.

It is like all that anger way back when the scene got changed where "Han shot first", he was a shocking anti-hero in some regards, the universe of Star Wars then had some very rough edges.
Just like the look of the "new" Star Wars ships, rounding out all the rough edges can remove much of the "character" from a given element within the Star Wars IP.

Longer than I intended but I am trying to explain/figure out why some element of "old school" Star Wars seems to hold more appeal for some.

 Sqorgar wrote:
I didn't mean to start another argument in here. Like I said, the game doesn't feel very Star Wars to me, and I'm having trouble figuring out exactly why. It may just be a bunch of little things that just keep adding up. The weird thing is, the Star Wars Miniature Game (the WEG ones) felt like Star Wars to me, and I'm not sure what the appreciable difference is.

An 800 point Imperial army feels very Star Wars to me. An 800 point Rebel army does not. That's probably the best explanation I can give you, and also probably why you see a lot of Imperial players.

 LunarSol wrote:
An 800 point Imperial army feels very Star Wars to me. An 800 point Rebel army does not. That's probably the best explanation I can give you, and also probably why you see a lot of Imperial players.

That's probably true. When they announced Boba Fett, my first thought was, Boba Fett doesn't fit in this game at all - for the same reason. A loner bounty hunter seems really out of place on the Imperial side, but a Rebel hero like that would feel right.

Would it better if there were fewer Rebel models per unit that were individually stronger? Like a unit of 10 stormtroopers versus a unit of 4 rebels being a roughly even match up? (Especially if the Rebel unit was led by a named character)

Sqorgar wrote:
If only Star Wars fans didn't have an unreasonable hatred of the prequels...

Grown men complaining about a childs movie when in most cases these people were children watching Star Wars. If these supposed Star Wars fans stopped watching the prequels with adult eyes and with children eyes when they first saw Star Wars, if they were a kid, then they would enjoy the prequels for what they were. Sadly these people will never enjoy the prequels for what they were and because of them we ended up with The Last Jedi.


As for Darth Vader and Luke being needed to play, that sucks, I want to play a Star Wars game not just a heros game over and over again. It would be nice to play the grunts, like what we saw in Rouge One.

Davor wrote:

Sqorgar wrote:
If only Star Wars fans didn't have an unreasonable hatred of the prequels...

Grown men complaining about a childs movie when in most cases these people were children watching Star Wars. If these supposed Star Wars fans stopped watching the prequels with adult eyes and with children eyes when they first saw Star Wars, if they were a kid, then they would enjoy the prequels for what they were. Sadly these people will never enjoy the prequels for what they were and because of them we ended up with The Last Jedi.

Sounds like somebody needs to watch The Last Jedi with a child's eyes.

Anyway, I would be far more interested in minis from Rogue One and Solo. I would love some miniatures of Enfys Nest, L3, K2, Chirrut and...gun guy.

I like seeing that basic troop types for storm troopers and the Fleet. Maybe bring in the other bounty hunters or some alien troops and robot sets, next, ala each of the different planet battlespaces.

 LunarSol wrote:
An 800 point Rebel army does not.

Probably because there's no such thing as a Rebel "army". They were never an armed force fighting the Empire in open combat. That's just not how the GCW went.

It's what makes this game so disjointed.

Davor wrote:

As for Darth Vader and Luke being needed to play, that sucks, I want to play a Star Wars game not just a heros game over and over again. It would be nice to play the grunts, like what we saw in Rouge One.

That's basically what you get if you make Veers your commander instead of Vader. He's technically a "special character" but only because Star Wars fans need names for every single background character. In terms of the game, he's essentially a generic Imperial officer.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
An 800 point Rebel army does not.

Probably because there's no such thing as a Rebel "army". They were never an armed force fighting the Empire in open combat. That's just not how the GCW went.
It's what makes this game so disjointed.

well from the new canon you have stuff like Twilight company that focuses on a alliance military unit, there is a central alliance military and they were mostly used to supplement local forces

One possible way they could go would be what the game Star Wars: Rebellion did with alien regiments for the Rebels. You eventually got Sullustan who weren't good at assault or defense but provided great protection against infiltrators, Mon Calamari who were good at defense but not good at assault, and then Wookies (guess what they were good at).. It makes sense that you'd get alien units from worlds that really threw in with the Rebels and it would kinda be better than the difference in styles between commandos, Hoth, and fleet troops.

 LunarSol wrote:

Davor wrote:

As for Darth Vader and Luke being needed to play, that sucks, I want to play a Star Wars game not just a heros game over and over again. It would be nice to play the grunts, like what we saw in Rouge One.

That's basically what you get if you make Veers your commander instead of Vader. He's technically a "special character" but only because Star Wars fans need names for every single background character. In terms of the game, he's essentially a generic Imperial officer.

He was named in the movie! Vader directly addresses him at a few points and he has some speaking roles

But yes, we will soon have two commanders (And an Special Operative.. No clue how they'll work primarily yet) with Vader, Veers, and Fett (Being the SO), with Luke, Leia, and Han..

In general so far, we have Force User Melee character, Commander who can lead units and has Leadership slots, and gun shooting damage dealer with tricks.

Personally, my wish list for Legions is:

IMPERIALS
- Generic officer
- Imperial Army troops (aka Death Star trooper)
- Director Krenick
- Death Troopers
- Dengar
- Royal Guard
- Troop transport (the old 70's toy/revised for Rebels)
- Imperial Hovertank
- Stormtrooper on Dewback


REBELS
- General Cracken
- General Reikeen
- Alien Allies (Wookies, Sullustans, Rodians, Rylothians, etc.)
- modified XP-34/XP-38 support speeder (i.e., Luke's landspeeder with an E-Web bolted on the back)

REPUBLIC
- Clone Trooper
- Clone Scout Trooper
- Jet pack Trooper
- ARC Trooper
- Commander Wolfe
- Captain Rex
- 555's
- Clone Trooper on AT-RT

SEPERATISTS
- Battle Droid
- Commander Battle Droid
- Super Battle Droid
- Super Tactical Battle Droid
- Droideka
- Droid Armored Assault Tank
- General Grevious
- Dwarf Spider Drones
- Hellfire Droid Tank


I'm actually hoping we won't see many Jedi characters at all - or at best, that you can only put one into a force at a time. They're friggen' superheroes, and it's not fun when it takes your entire army to take out one. I think that's a big failing that the WotC miniature game fell into.

That imperial transport that people have to sort of stand on the outside of held in by a flap is really daft looking, imo. It's clear as day that that's a toy design, not something built to be functional.

There's not a ton of room for jedi characters in this game as it's GCW focussed. If you're wishlisting clone wars units though, it would be very unusual not to include jedi characters - almost every famous mainstream battle had jedi commanders involved. They don't all have to be super badasses.

I have less than zero interest in FFG's Legion game...however...I'm very close to picking up many boxes simply to have a stash of Star Wars figures. I don't understand why people think they're stuck playing Star Wars Legion - when there are loads of fantastic skirmish sci-fi rules sets out there ---- or you can create your own.

This is the first (and likely last for the foreseeable future) chance to buy a fairly consistent current line of Star Wars figures in a common gaming scale (or common enough...). If I was a bit better off financially right now I'd buy 2-3 boxes of each --- even if I just stashed them in a closet for 10-15 years, lol.

 Elbows wrote:
I don't understand why people think they're stuck playing Star Wars Legion - when there are loads of fantastic skirmish sci-fi rules sets out there ---- or you can create your own.

Cause the Legion rules themselves are pretty good on their own and aren't like.... an additional cost or anything like that?

No, but people are acting as if FFG is going to lose the license and suddenly they'll have nothing to do with a large assortment of Star Wars miniatures. Sure the line isn't fleshed out right now, but there is a hell of a solid start.

 Elbows wrote:
No, but people are acting as if FFG is going to lose the license and suddenly they'll have nothing to do with a large assortment of Star Wars miniatures. Sure the line isn't fleshed out right now, but there is a hell of a solid start.

I think for some (or at least for me) part of the hesitation is the doubt as to just how fleshed out it is likely to get before being inevitably canned, as happens to all licensed games sooner or later. The WotC Star Wars game was around for 6 years and 17 expansions (not counting Starship Battles, which was effectively a separate game), and still had some fairly large holes in the range when it was canned.

 Elbows wrote:
No, but people are acting as if FFG is going to lose the license and suddenly they'll have nothing to do with a large assortment of Star Wars miniatures. Sure the line isn't fleshed out right now, but there is a hell of a solid start.

It's not that the models will disappear, it's that continuing in the game will become much more difficult. If you have an army in progress when the game goes OOP you'll be stuck paying inflated prices for everything to finish it, and the only alternative is to massively over-invest up front and hope that you buy so much stuff that you never have any gaps to fill. And once the game goes OOP the supply of new players ends because getting into it as a newbie becomes far more difficult. Instead of buying stuff off the shelf at the store you're having to tell newbies to hunt for it on ebay and hope they can get a decent deal. Likewise for whatever substitute rules you try to use instead of Legion's rules, now you have models that are OOP and hard to get on top of trying to convince people to use some obscure rules that some random person made instead of just playing 40k. Eventually, as the current players inevitably drop out, you'll be left with a bunch of models collecting dust on your display shelf and nobody to use them with.

Now, this is a potential problem for any game, but it's a lot more likely with a licensed IP than with a publisher's own IP. 40k isn't going anywhere in the foreseeable future, but can you confidently say the same thing about Star Wars games given the history of licensed Star Wars games that suddenly ended despite being a financial success? By investing in Legion you're taking a significant gamble on FFG keeping the license long enough for you to get everything you want out of your purchases.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Elbows wrote:
I don't understand why people think they're stuck playing Star Wars Legion - when there are loads of fantastic skirmish sci-fi rules sets out there ---- or you can create your own.

Because all of those obscure rules that nobody uses aren't worth anything unless you can convince people to play with them instead of just playing 40k/MTG/whatever. And rules are the easy part. If FFG drops Legion there are plenty of pdf copies of the rules. TBH you'd be a lot more likely to get people to keep playing Legion after support is dropped, as long as you can find a way to get enough OOP models. But if you're investing in a game in the desperate hope that someone will join you in playing a random game with a player base you can count on one hand, well, I guess it's your money to throw away.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
An 800 point Rebel army does not.

Probably because there's no such thing as a Rebel "army". They were never an armed force fighting the Empire in open combat. That's just not how the GCW went.

It's what makes this game so disjointed.

What is a standard game size for Legion? I've heard that two core sets is enough for a standard points level; at that level, you've got about enough Rebels to re-fight the Endor base assault, the boarding action on the Tantive IV or a section of the tunnel fighting on Hoth. a 28mm game isn't going to be "too big" for the Rebellion era until they do it in 15 or 10mm, or start introducing huge vehicles like 40k does.