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Baxx wrote:
So we get reprint of campaign and alliance rules. The first Guild Alliance rules from Perils book was just a beta version, the full version covering both Guilds and criminal alliances are covered in Enforcers book. Smells like Compendium 2019?

Umm... no. The Guilds aren't in this book.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Also, Book of Judgement specifically mentions Helot and Corpse Grinder gangs.

Hmm...

I do wonder if the Helot's will become the new pit slave gang - mixture of augmented humans and the non mutant dregs

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Baxx wrote:
So we get reprint of campaign and alliance rules. The first Guild Alliance rules from Perils book was just a beta version, the full version covering both Guilds and criminal alliances are covered in Enforcers book. Smells like Compendium 2019?

Umm... no. The Guilds aren't in this book.

No, but the rules for starting an alliance is in this book. Replacing the previous alliance rules which only included guilders.

Baxx wrote:

No, but the rules for starting an alliance is in this book. Replacing the previous alliance rules which only included guilders.

Literally nothing tells you this is a replacement. The inference is yours alone.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

Baxx wrote:

No, but the rules for starting an alliance is in this book. Replacing the previous alliance rules which only included guilders.

Literally nothing tells you this is a replacement. The inference is yours alone.

Yeah, it’s just a duplication so you don’t have to buy the Book of Peril just to use the alliances in the Book of Judgement.

Similarly the ‘reprinted’ campaign rules are for a totally different campaign type, with different victories and objectives.

None of the dramatis personae are repeats either.

Yes you can fairly easily combine a Dominion campaign with a Law and Misrule campaign, it even gives tips on how to do this, but if you’re the arbitrator it’s gonna be some work.

More importantly, this is all information we had before the release date so I don’t know why Baxx thinks it’s suddenly so important.

Baxx wrote:
No, but the rules for starting an alliance is in this book. Replacing the previous alliance rules which only included guilders.

They don't replace anything. If the two systems share a similar set of base rules it's because any book is written with the assumption that you own core rules and just this other book. They can't print this book and say "If you want to use these alliance rules, you'll also need this other expansion!". Outside of the core book they are attached to, supplements have to be able to stand on their own.

Nothing has been "replaced".

Instead of printing the same alliance rules in 2 books, they could have printed it correctly the first time, or printed it correctly both times. The starting alliance rules in enforcers seems to fully replace the rules in perils. I'll show you later how it should have been done when I've updated my own rules document. Or you can wait until the next official compendium is out. I can guarantee you that the first starting alliance rules will not be in it.

They don't fully replace them, as has already been explained to you. They have to reprint them because they aren't going to direct you to yet another book.

They're not going to put an incomplete set of rules in one book and tell you to buy another to get the full rules.

And I'm telling you, the enforcers starting alliance rules seems to fully replace the perils starting alliance rules. They could have put the complete set of rules in both books. If there is another compendium, we can wait and see for the 'official' ruling if one replaces the other. I wouldn't expect to see both!

You'd have to buy 4 books by now to get the "full" rules.

Just as a by-the-by, Helot gangs/cults are referencing helot cultists or chaos cultists... who knows why they had to complicate that.. do they have a mandate to include as many editing errors as possible?
Is this the meow game except with edits?
As for Corpse Grinder Cults... who knows.

There was a discussion about using space marines in Necromunda earlier. We now have official rules for something better. Most terminators can now be used pretty much wysiwyg in Necromunda:

- 2+ save with 5+ inv save
- thunder hammer
- storm bolter
- lightning claws
- (storm) shield
- auto cannon
- heavy flamer
- power fist
- power sword
- power axe

Weird we haven't gotten cyclone missile launcher and assault cannons yet?!? And where is the chainfist?

Last year they removed/simplified some of the unique cult weapons. Now I wonder why.

Morghot wrote:
For those who were scared about size here a video with some comparison (spoiler: they obviously fits well with all the recent release and are not bigger than a primaris )

Spoiler:

Some pics from the video for those who don't want to watch it.

I really like them and their size. I am very tempted to get some to be inquisitorial enforcers for Inquisimunda.

That sizing in nice for badasses.
I am tempted to pick some up to be scions

Put together a few Enforcers yesterday. Nice models, even though some of the poses are a bit weird. Especially the sniper guy - he’s got this strange hunched over pose. I don’t understand why they included a pair of kneeling legs that doesn’t fit the sniper torso? Anyway, that was easy enough to fix with a tiny bit of greenstuff, so now I have a kneeling sniper.

They had female enforcer art in the new book, same armor, just slimmer.

Outside of paintjobs, I wonder if these Enforcers will suffer like the previous ones did; Too hard to tell apart during a game.

The downside of uniforms making things uniform. For stuff like that I've taken to using left over waterslide transfers on the backside of the base rings.

Just write numbers on the bases. Write the number next to their entry in the roster and you know who is who.

#1 is Captain Lawrence
#2 is Sergeant Voss
#4 is Officer Graves
#7 is Cadet Volkov
etc...

You can later change the names, but models stay.

Not ideal, but these are quite a nice idea to help Identify each patrolman:

https://www.versatileterrain.co.uk

Baxx wrote:
There was a discussion about using space marines in Necromunda earlier. We now have official rules for something better. Most terminators can now be used pretty much wysiwyg in Necromunda:

- 2+ save with 5+ inv save
- thunder hammer
- storm bolter
- lightning claws
- (storm) shield
- auto cannon
- heavy flamer
- power fist
- power sword
- power axe

You're assuming that A ) weapons that some ganger scum can afford are the same quality as SM weapons (which would probably be doubly mastercrafted by NM standards), and B ) much larger SM weapons do same damage as stuff weedy hobo with missing leg can lift. Say, SM bolters are supposed to be nearly double the caliber of 'human' ones, and while RPG and tabletop did really poor job of representing this, simple physics should tell you bullet with six times the volume should be at least slightly more powerful. That 2+ save too, by NM standards would probably be 2++ rerollable if attacked by anything less than a meltagun, and even then I'd expect TDA to have a pretty good chance of stopping a single hit from 'civilian' model.

Yup.

Look at the Enforcer Boltgun.

Still relatively mass produced, and far more reliable than the ones most Gangs can access.

How much improved would an Astartes pattern Boltgun be? For a start, I'm confident an Astartes wouldn't fail ammo rolls. And given their greater strength, training and armour, would possibly have a higher rate of fire.

In terms of armour? In 2nd Ed, particularly primitive weapons (bows, crossbows etc) actually improved already high level saves, because they were so primitive. Terminators came with a stock 3+ save on 2D6, added together. Primitive Weapons upped that to a 2+ save on 2D6.

Update that to Necromunda? Remember. Gangers aren't formally trained. At all. They likely have poor fire discipline, including knowing roughly where to aim. Quite possibly they're all closer to spray and pray.

An Astartes? Head or chest shot everytime - because that's how you put someone down. So even if their Boltguns don't do more damage, it could be represented by auto-death results on the serious injury table, and a bonus to see whether you're just bleeding a bit, or have suddenly and carelessly misplaced your limbs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Heck, an Astartes likely wouldn't expend ammo on a mere gang.

Instead, just pick the odds and ends around you, and hurl them at the enemy, like an armoured Jason Voorhees.

If you wanted to include Marines in a campaign, you can absolutely do it. But you need to factor in so many things.

Astartes are terror troops for a reason. In the Underhive, you're used to shooting a couple of time in the general direction, and the enemy ducking. Astartes don't. They just keep coming at you. Again, like an armoured Jason Voorhees.

Even if you land a telling injury on an extremity? Well, again, just like an armoured Jason Voorhees, he's not slowing down. Indeed, you've just made yourself a target.

In HTH? He's not even drawn his knife. He's barely trying to block. Instead, he just picked up Dave, and like an armoured Jason Voorhees, snapped his spine, and torn him in half. With just his hands

If I was to include an Astartes, it would only be the one. Possibly a Dark Angel seeking a Fallen. And if a Gang encounters the Astartes? Bottle Tests - every turn from the get go, with significant modifiers for every gang member killed - because when an Astartes has 'had a polite word in the language of fisticuffs' you don't get to roll on the injury table, because if you're lucky, your mates can now just put you in a plant pot. You're either dead, or so horribly crippled, you'll never move again.

Astartes should be ridiculously OP. Like, insanely so. Because that's what they are. That's why a mere couple of squads can tear the heart out of an enemy army in no time at all. That's what they're for.

Heck, Gangs, including Enforcers, should be bricking it should even a Guard Veteran Squad head below the Wall. Because they know what they're doing. They've drilled together for years. They've fought horrors the average Hive Denizen can barely imagine. And they've survived.

I'm actually thinking I might switch my inquisimunda stuff over to a simplified version of Dark Heresy (the out of print RPG from FFG) adapted to be played entirely on the table top because it actually does create a combat experience that is a lot like the ideal you describe in your post. The N17 rules have been "okay" but not amazing.

I'm of a mind that a TTG can become too detailed, which is why I get on with Necromunda.

As a framework rules set, it's got some nice nitty gritty on offer once a campaign is underway.

That gives a tool set of existing mechanics we can adapt for new situations and creations, without having to create everything from the ground up.

The game itself plays quite nicely, with relatively few dice rolls and rule interactions.

YMMV of course, but I feel as a base set, Necromunda allows for added detail, without needing it.

The new pet Hacked cyber-mastiff got an incorrect weapon "Jaws" which differ from the existing "Jaws" for Giant Rat. The new Jaws is however identical to Sump Croc's Ferocious jaws.
The new pet Grapplehawk also has an incorrect weapon "Talons" which differ from the existing "Talons" for Khimerix & Phyrr cat.
They add a bunch of new ammos, but instead of doing it correctly, it is full of copy-paste errors.
Renaming the existing special rule "Independent" (Phyrr cat) to "Swood" for (Grapplehawk). Not exactly an error, but very bad practice. They could reprint that special rule, but didn't bother to reprint Flight, instead referencing to it in the compilation book. And changed the name to "Fly" also.


The quality is back to Gang War era!

Since for some reason I didn't get my book with the bundle (delayed an extra week), I've got my enforcer kit and just kinda... looking it over.

Anyone wanna explain what the difference between a Subjugator and a Palanite is?

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Since for some reason I didn't get my book with the bundle (delayed an extra week), I've got my enforcer kit and just kinda... looking it over.

Anyone wanna explain what the difference between a Subjugator and a Palanite is?

Extra armour layer and different wargear options. Fortunately you can get away with using the basic enforcers as subjugators since it’s all ‘just’ flak armour so it looks like cloth anyway. The big deal is that the subjugator basic gun is a grenade launcher and they are the only ones that have the option to take assault shields.

Well they obviously want you to take autopistol and stubgun instead.

Who use low-tier grenade launcher anyway? Stubgun 4 lyf!!

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Since for some reason I didn't get my book with the bundle (delayed an extra week), I've got my enforcer kit and just kinda... looking it over.

Anyone wanna explain what the difference between a Subjugator and a Palanite is?

Extra armour layer and different wargear options. Fortunately you can get away with using the basic enforcers as subjugators since it’s all ‘just’ flak armour so it looks like cloth anyway. The big deal is that the subjugator basic gun is a grenade launcher and they are the only ones that have the option to take assault shields.

I plan on doing some pretty extensive head swaps with them as it is.

So the subjugators and palanites can be mixed, or you have to go all or nothing?

You can mix them but if the enforcer captain (gang leader) is one or the other, you have to include a couple of that type in the roster.
So you can have all regular enforcers or all subjugators or a fairly even mix but you can’t make just the captain a subjugator.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:


So the subjugators and palanites can be mixed, or you have to go all or nothing?

It is an upgrade that cost 10 credit, and is available for everyone, except the rookie.

If the leader is upgraded, you had to upgraded at least 2 patrolman also.