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 Altruizine wrote:

We told you this months ago: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/6900/743059.page#10541319

You're the only person in the world who cares so much about that one issue.

I have to believe it comes down to a psychological bias/preference for neatness and tidiness, and not a legitimate objection to the balance/gameplay/clarity ramifications of those bespoke character items.

Want to make it personal? Clarity is you hit me with weapon x, I can know what that means. Now it is insufficient, you need to know weapon x and attacking fighter y to uniquely identify effect. You never been to yaktribe? Cause I'm clearly not the only one.

Is it worth making multiple versions of a weapon when we already have 100 close combat weapons to choose from? Is it so important for this single bounty hunter special character to have increased accuracy on the knife only? Is it a disaster to simply give +1 WS and that would also affect a single attack with a pistol?

Yeah this isn't the biggest issue with the rules, but it's utterly needless confusion when they could just put "Character Name's Weapon" rather than just "Weapon (random changes to said weapon's standard profile)". It also muddies the water with actual errors, because it's harder to tell when they're making a mistake and when they're making an intentional change.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Keep 'em coming Baxx and I'll bombard Andy with more stuff. He'll love me for it.

So, like... how do you stop yourself from tearing into him so hard he blocks you? He's setting all sorts of records for incompetence.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Q. In the Bounty Hunters entry, it says Bounty Hunters may purchase up to 150 credits worth of weapons and Wargear.
Do I have to pay for this?

A. Yes, you have to pay for things you wish to purchase

Hey look at that I was right.

Hired guns are completely useless.

"Well, thanks for the passive-aggresive bs answer, GW, but as I'm not purchasing anything but getting stuff for a hired gun that I'm, well, hiring, I'll read your answer as "you don't have to pay" and keep using them instead of making them useless. Thanks!"


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Altruizine wrote:

Baxx wrote:
The copy-paste errors on the special character fighter card weapon profiles are "intentional".

We told you this months ago: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/6900/743059.page#10541319

You're the only person in the world who cares so much about that one issue.

I have to believe it comes down to a psychological bias/preference for neatness and tidiness, and not a legitimate objection to the balance/gameplay/clarity ramifications of those bespoke character items.

He's not the only one who cares. It might not be the worst problem with the game, but it's certainly the one that adds in the more uncertainty, for no gain that I can see.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Q. In the Bounty Hunters entry, it says Bounty Hunters may purchase up to 150 credits worth of weapons and Wargear.
Do I have to pay for this?

A. Yes, you have to pay for things you wish to purchase

Hey look at that I was right.

Hired guns are completely useless.

Yeah, this one is off-the-charts stupid.

Why the hell would you ever hire a bounty hunter if he came with no weapons or wargear?

Why would you buy weapons and wargear for a hireling, rather than for a ganger?

Why say that the bounty hunter may purchase things? With what? The credits he doesn't have? Do you give him credits and HE visits the trading post?

If you really are supposed to be spending your credits on your useless Bounty Hunter, why are you limited to throwing away only 150 of them? Why not let us flush more credits down the toilet.

It's like someone decided "I'm tired of answering FAQs. If I provide mind-bogglingly stupid answers, maybe people will just stop asking."

"Name's Tex, toughest SOB in the 'hive, you hire me I'll help you become the baddest gang around, and leave all your rivals in body bags."

"Sounds great Tex, what kind of gear are you packing?"

"Well.....about that......I don't technically have anything other than the clothes on my back......but you could outfit me for only 150 credits."

"So you want us to pay to hire you for one mission, pay to equip you, and afterwards you just leave with all the expensive stuff we just bought you?"

"Yeah, pretty much."



This is about the most nonsensical thing GW has ever put in their rules.

Much preferred the original Hired Gun rules.

They come with weapons A, B and C along with equipment/wargear X and Y for a per-game cost of Z.

They were less customisable, sure, but at least they weren't functionally broken as a concept.

This one was the best!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Sounds like a racket if you ask me.

"I'm Gaz Makari, famed Bounty Hunter of Seven Sump City."
"Oh yes, we've heard of you. Your exploits are known across several domes."
"Thank you. I heard that you're in the market for some extra muscle?"
"Very much so. Those Goliath boys have been kicking our asses back and forth between trading posts. We need a big gun to help us keep them at bay."
"I've got a modest hire fee."
"That we're happy to pay... err... you don't seem to be carrying any weapons."
"Never do. My employers always pay for my guns."
"Umm... so I have to buy your guns?"
"Sure do."
"And when you leave?"
"The guns leave with me."
"And yet you haven't kept any."
"The Underhive is a mysterious place..."

I’d bet most people will...come up with some sort of houserule to fix this?

Or never use Bounty Hunters, I guess.

I agree they are too expensive for what they are. However, fluff wise, they aren’t showing up without weapons, they are charging a kit fee for the employer’s use of those weapons.

The original game had a much better and more logical hired gun fee. The fee for generic scums and bh are fixed to 15 and 35, the logic is that they are 1/5 of the value of the fighters.

But ofcourse, newmunda rule writer with galaxy brain denounced all that and come up with the superior rule. Nobody were using them when they come out, and nobody will be using them now since alliance is a thing.

Help me understand the bounty hunter complaints. I haven't played with them, but they don't seem to be a terrible deal. They cost 80 credits (plus weapons), have a champion/leader-level statline, can carry 5 weapons, gets 3 skills, and can't die/get lasting injuries.

The risk is that they will leave, but they only leave for sure if they make money from killing an enemy fighter AND capture a fighter (which has a 50% chance of being an outlaw, and you have to choose to sell that fighter to the guilders). If only one of these things happen, they have a 50% chance of leaving. In either case, the bounty hunter will have made some money for you before he leaves (maybe a lot). If neither happen, the bounty hunter sticks around for free. If he is around and doesn't get used in the next mission, he leaves.

Am I missing something or interpreting the rules incorrectly? It seems to me that the bounty hunter is a risk-reward thing. You can hire a good unit cheap, but he might go away if you start doing too well. He might even make your money back.

So when you buy 150 credits worth of equipment for him, you are basically making a bet on his usefulness. How much do you want to invest in this unit? What kind of return do I think I can get with him?

They cost that 80+150 credits per game. Considering those are the normal prices a regular gang member would be paid for a whole campaign, with much reduced odds of them just wandering off with all that kit?

You can get two fighters for the cost of a bounty hunter. They won't be as skilled as the bounty hunter, but they'll stick around after one game, and can get better over time, and help your gang out over time.

 Sqorgar wrote:
Help me understand the bounty hunter complaints. I haven't played with them, but they don't seem to be a terrible deal. They cost 80 credits (plus weapons), have a champion/leader-level statline, can carry 5 weapons, gets 3 skills, and can't die/get lasting injuries.

The risk is that they will leave, but they only leave for sure if they make money from killing an enemy fighter AND capture a fighter (which has a 50% chance of being an outlaw, and you have to choose to sell that fighter to the guilders). If only one of these things happen, they have a 50% chance of leaving. In either case, the bounty hunter will have made some money for you before he leaves (maybe a lot). If neither happen, the bounty hunter sticks around for free. If he is around and doesn't get used in the next mission, he leaves.

Am I missing something or interpreting the rules incorrectly? It seems to me that the bounty hunter is a risk-reward thing. You can hire a good unit cheap, but he might go away if you start doing too well. He might even make your money back.

So when you buy 150 credits worth of equipment for him, you are basically making a bet on his usefulness. How much do you want to invest in this unit? What kind of return do I think I can get with him?

Most people would find a better use with 100+ credit in hand, instead of hiring a guy that may claim chump change from ill-equipped fighters.

Although there're always been a good application for the hired guns, as a win-more, ambush-assited unit for the leading gangs, or deep in the campaign when you no longer need to upgrade or recruit more gangers.

Yeah Bounty Hunters are either house ruled to be usable, or simply not used. They can however join a battle for free (and free is useful!). Can be granted if playing against Rogue Factoria alliance, Life Coin Exchange (Racket), Guild Bonds (Racket, Outlaw), Emergency Sanctioning (Uprising campaign events) and House Patronage (underdog bonus).

 Sqorgar wrote:
Help me understand the bounty hunter complaints. I haven't played with them, but they don't seem to be a terrible deal. They cost 80 credits (plus weapons), have a champion/leader-level statline, can carry 5 weapons, gets 3 skills, and can't die/get lasting injuries.

Carrying 5 weapons is more of a fluff ability than an actual advantage in the game. You could let everyone carry as many weapons as they want, don't make them more competitive or unbalanced. The days of backup guns are long gone unfortunately. To be competitive, you only need 1-2 weapons, preferably plasma gun and preferably master-crafted. Any weapons beyond that is mostly bloat.

Mr_Rose wrote:They cost that 80+150 credits per game. Considering those are the normal prices a regular gang member would be paid for a whole campaign, with much reduced odds of them just wandering off with all that kit?

They cost 80 with UP TO 150 credits in equipment. You can choose less/cheaper equipment to reduce their cost.

The real question is if you get to keep the equipment after the bounty hunter leaves. You can't add equipment to the card, but it doesn't say whether the bounty hunter leaves with the equipment (unless I'm missing something). You can either look at it as, I'm paying extra for a better equipped bounty hunter, or I'm paying extra for the equipment, which I'm gonna keep because I paid for the things.

H.B.M.C. wrote:You can get two fighters for the cost of a bounty hunter. They won't be as skilled as the bounty hunter, but they'll stick around after one game, and can get better over time, and help your gang out over time.

Bounty hunters will almost certainly stick around for more than one game. There's three triggers for them leaving:

1) They participate in a battle where an enemy fighter is killed. Not injured. Not taken out of action. Killed. While it can happen, it doesn't happen every mission. Even then, as long as you don't also sell a wanted captive that mission, the bounty hunter has a 50% chance of sticking around.

2) They capture an enemy fighter, that fighter is a wanted outlaw, AND they sell that captured fighter to the guilders. Since you can choose whether or not to sell a captured fighter to guilders (you can sell them back to your opponent or just hold on to them for a while), this trigger is up to you. You could potentially sell multiple captured fighters during a single aftermath sequence, thus gaining the value of all their credits plus 10-60 extra credits each without changing your bounty hunter leave chance beyond the flat 50%.

3) You have the bounty hunter available for a mission and choose not to bring them. This can get you if you have too many models and you get a random selection mission, I guess.

It seems that, unless you are very unlucky or don't manage your bounty hunter well, you can get multiple missions out of them.

Chopstick wrote:Most people would find a better use with 100+ credit in hand, instead of hiring a guy that may claim chump change from ill-equipped fighters.

I would think a bounty hunter would be useful in some cases. The ability to select the stat line, plus being able to buy rare 10 weapons off the bat, plus getting 3 random skills (or 1 random + 1 selected) means that you can create a very specific fighter that is going to be better than most champions right out the gate. Champions might be better after leveling up a few times, but if it is near the end of the game with limited leveling up opportunities, there's no reason not to go with a bounty hunter. And maybe you build a specific bounty hunter designed to go after a specific enemy unit - they can be useful for taking out high value targets with the right equipment and skills.

Plus, there are role playing opportunities with the concept of building your own bounty hunter. Give him a name and backstory, and have him show up repeatedly in different campaigns - even let your friends hire him on. He could develop into a legend among your group.

Baxx wrote:Carrying 5 weapons is more of a fluff ability than an actual advantage in the game. You could let everyone carry as many weapons as they want, don't make them more competitive or unbalanced. The days of backup guns are long gone unfortunately. To be competitive, you only need 1-2 weapons, preferably plasma gun and preferably master-crafted. Any weapons beyond that is mostly bloat.

Well, it makes them more versatile, for one, but I imagine it would be hard to get 5 different good weapons and whatever wargear you want for 150 credits. However, it makes unwieldy weapons a more attractive option when you can also carry a basic melee and ranged weapon alongside it.

What is peoples opinions on the 2020 Necromunda is getting releases rumor on BOLS?

 Sqorgar wrote:


Plus, there are role playing opportunities with the concept of building your own bounty hunter. Give him a name and backstory, and have him show up repeatedly in different campaigns - even let your friends hire him on. He could develop into a legend among your group.

No need to waste 100+ credit every other match just to have a shady "your dude" fighter that may or may not scam you out of all those credit for 20 credit Juve. Venator gang is a thing.

And you can also get more of those "your dudes", for free, with the alliance.

bfdhud wrote:What is peoples opinions on the 2020 Necromunda is getting releases rumor on BOLS?

What rumor? All I see is that Necromunda is getting releases in January, which isn't much of a rumor. We know the Zone Mortalis stuff is coming soon, and frankly, there's not a lot of reason to wait on independent releases for the Subjugators and Corpse Grinder Cults (there's even ads for them in the Dark Uprising box). Whether Necromunda will get something else - something NEW - remains to be seen. Personally, bring on the Zone Mortalis releases...

Chopstick wrote:No need to waste 100+ credit every other match just to have a shady "your dude" fighter that may or may not scam you out of all those credit for 20 credit Juve. Venator gang is a thing.

First of all, it won't be "every other match". That is a histrionic overreaction. Again, the bounty hunters only leave if they kill an enemy fighter during that match (which earns you half their credits) or CHOOSE to sell a captured outlaw (full credits plus 1D6x10 extra credits). They would only leave "every other match" in the worst possible circumstances. It is extremely likely they'll stick around for multiple games. In the best circumstances, they could follow you for an entire campaign and make you lots of money.

The bounty hunter will basically stick around until you earn SOME extra money that you would otherwise not get. It could be a very little bit of money or it could be quite a bit of money. That's kind of the risk with bounty hunters. They may or may not pay back their costs (and part of that will depend on how much of the 150 credits you decide to spend on equipment). They are a gamble that may pay out, if properly managed. But beyond that, you are also renting a powerful unit for numerous games, so even if you don't earn every cent back, you can still get your money's worth out of them. But it is a risk.

Settle this outside folks. One side hire their bounty hunters. Other side spend their bloody credits on whatever else. Whoever side is Van Saar wins.

Nice one!

I’m looking forward to the terrain from Dark Uprising getting released separately...

I hope that the quarterly release will not be only separated repack from dark uprising..

A brief review of "new" terrain rules content from the latest White Dwarf (December 2019).

-Lift: Free move 4" up or down during an activation, once per round. Fighters obstructing the path can be injured similarly as if caught in a closing doorway.
-Stills: Explosive terrain similar to previous fire/plasma, except this triggers a "gas grenade" explosion. They probably mean choke gas grenade.
-Stairs: Similar to standard falling. If pinned, fall down to the bottom. If falling more than 3", suffer a S3 hit.
-Toxic sludge: Reprint (previously omitted from N18).
-Doors: Reprint. Includes "Mind the Doors" (previously omitted from N18).
-Floor Hatch: Reprint of Service Hatch: Crawlways.
-Protein Reclamator: Reprint of Waste Compactor.
-Control Panels: Reprint.
Ductways: Reprint.
-Pitfalls: Reprint.

Lift is a nice rule which surely would belong in the Uprising rulebook together with the actual lift terrain! Stills is a gas version of earlier explosive terrain. Stairs is similar to standard falling. The rest is nothing new. Should be more interesting content in the "Gang Raids" supplement including new scenarios (designed for playing 30 minute games).

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/01/19/pre-order-preview-warcry-necromunda-middle-earth/

so without news this quarter, just repack

and from forge world since September without news.

sad

Probably 6 enforcers for $40. Granted they have big ole shields are are basically Necromunda terminators but come one, would throwing in 1 more sprue for 9 have broken the bank...

Still need to figure out what they can count as in an IG army. Crusaders is the easy answer but maybe 2 to a base as Bullgryns?

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Probably 6 enforcers for $40. Granted they have big ole shields are are basically Necromunda terminators but come one, would throwing in 1 more sprue for 9 have broken the bank...

Still need to figure out what they can count as in an IG army. Crusaders is the easy answer but maybe 2 to a base as Bullgryns?

but, all the Gangboxes have 2 Sprues inside of them? Why would Subjugators get a third sprue? :-D

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Probably 6 enforcers for $40. Granted they have big ole shields are are basically Necromunda terminators but come one, would throwing in 1 more sprue for 9 have broken the bank...

Still need to figure out what they can count as in an IG army. Crusaders is the easy answer but maybe 2 to a base as Bullgryns?

But they'll come with a transfer sheet! And that alone was worth a price increase on the previous Enforcer box.

The Corpse Grinders will also be the same higher price, but without transfers, because GW.

I don’t have my boxed set to hand so can anyone check if these are the same Corpse Grinder tactics that were in Dark Uprising? The example card is Blood-Drenched Champion.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Probably 6 enforcers for $40. Granted they have big ole shields are are basically Necromunda terminators but come one, would throwing in 1 more sprue for 9 have broken the bank...

Given that Subjugators clock in at 150 credits for a Captain(before gear), 80 for a Patrolman, and 110 for a Sergeant? You're really not going to need more than one box...and at $40 for 6, they'd somehow end up cheaper than the Enforcer Patrol box.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Probably 6 enforcers for $40. Granted they have big ole shields are are basically Necromunda terminators but come one, would throwing in 1 more sprue for 9 have broken the bank...

Still need to figure out what they can count as in an IG army. Crusaders is the easy answer but maybe 2 to a base as Bullgryns?

But they'll come with a transfer sheet! And that alone was worth a price increase on the previous Enforcer box.

The Corpse Grinders will also be the same higher price, but without transfers, because GW.

The Enforcers aren’t any more than the other gangs. The price on all the others was bumped up to match. Nothing to do with the transfers, just got hit with the price increase when that happened.