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I've started to skim through my codex and overall I feel like CWE just become solid. Not OP other than some abusive lists (which I will refuse to talk about because it's "wrong"), and there's some Ynnari builds that will be abused as well unless it gets FAQ'd, but for the non-WAAC types there's still a lot of things in the book that became really good and I think outside of the powergaming cheesemongers you'll see a solid variety of lists.

Wish I could look at my collectors edition codex. Ordered it with the made to order items and probably wont see it for a month. Called customer service to separate the order and they said to email. I email and no response so far...

 Crusaderobr wrote:
Wish I could look at my collectors edition codex. Ordered it with the made to order items and probably wont see it for a month. Called customer service to separate the order and they said to email. I email and no response so far...

That really sucks :-( but they did have a disclaimer on the made to order stuff saying it would delay any other shipments that came with them.

 Korlandril wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:
So... Could you run a mixed Craftworld/Ynnari list, fly by with a hemlock, and then use fire and fade to intentionally crash it to soulburst a unit for a hella janky alpha strike?

I think Ynnari should have their own tactica thread, this should be reserved for Craftworlds only

I don't think sacrificing a Hemlock for a Soulburst counts as tactics.

Joey86 wrote:
About the Avatar.
He is not THE Avatar of Khaela Mensha Khaine. Instead he is
A Avatar of Khaela Mensha Khaine.

There are multiple ones. Dont know how many Craftwordls exist, but i dont see why i wouldnt give him another Warlord Trait other then one of the 5.

I was about to say this. He isn't really a named character. Khaela Mensha Khaine is a named character, the Avatar is just a generic... well, avatar. Battle starts, the craftworld summons an avatar to fight with them. He's not unique, if/when he dies they just summon another one.

There's not even any reason I know of that multiple craftworlds going to war at the same time can't summon their own Avatars. Each Avatar is just an embodiement of the god, so they could summon as many as they want until Khaela runs out of godly power. It's not like Eldrad or a Phoenix Lord, where there is only one in the universe.

I don't have the codex with me to look though, so dunno if he can actually take anything according to the actual rules. Just fluff-wise he's not a 'named character'. I had also read somewhere that he could take the Phoenix Gem, but I don't remember where or why that was.

About the Avatar. I posted this on YMDC: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/743156.page.

My opinion is that the Avatar is a named character, and most people seem to agree. The fact that there are multiple Avatars in the fluff isn't really relevant, you can only bring one in your army, he's listed with the other named characters, and he has "the" in his name. The Avatar isn't any random Avatar of Khaine, he's your craftworld's Avatar specifically, of which there's only one.

"This is my Avatar of Khaine. There are many like it, but this one is mine."

xmbk wrote:

 Korlandril wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:
So... Could you run a mixed Craftworld/Ynnari list, fly by with a hemlock, and then use fire and fade to intentionally crash it to soulburst a unit for a hella janky alpha strike?

I think Ynnari should have their own tactica thread, this should be reserved for Craftworlds only

I don't think sacrificing a Hemlock for a Soulburst counts as tactics.

It's not something you'd do in every game, but if you're in a serious pinch and need to double up on shooting to clear a last objective or destroy a vital target, the extra added firepower/mobility could end up winning a game. It's not a tool you'd want to use regularly, but I'd look forward to seeing the one game out of hundreds/thousands/millions where it actually ends up becoming really useful.

A nice tool to have, even if you don't want to be using it often.

Cream Tea wrote:About the Avatar. I posted this on YMDC: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/743156.page.

My opinion is that the Avatar is a named character, and most people seem to agree. The fact that there are multiple Avatars in the fluff isn't really relevant, you can only bring one in your army, he's listed with the other named characters, and he has "the" in his name. The Avatar isn't any random Avatar of Khaine, he's your craftworld's Avatar specifically, of which there's only one.

"This is my Avatar of Khaine. There are many like it, but this one is mine."

Which also means that, since he can take a custom craftworld name, if you do so, he cannot take a Warlord trait at all. Now, most people will just say "These guys are being run as X CW from the book" and run them as such, but it's an interesting observation.

Hi, I am pretty new to 40k and ELdars and I would like to build a little detachment (500 pts), but my environment is very competitive, so I came to this:


Illic nightspear
Spiritseer

3x5 rangers

Fireprisme

What do you think?
Thanks !

So I am most interested in Banshees and I am wondering what the best way to field them is. The appeal of them is that they are relatively cheap and can move across the board quickly. The safest way to field them is in a wave serpent but that would actually slow them down and make much more expensive. We can deep strike them but you are not guaranteed a charge and you are spending 3cp right off the bat to deep strike two units which you may want to deep strike slower units like wraiths and firedragons. That leaves just keeping them on foot. They are quick enough to get around on foot but they are really frail.

Not sure what the best way to run these would be.

Just an FYI for everyone getting geeked up about bringing a boatload of psykers. There is a runmour floating around the tournament scene that Chapter Approved will implement a new rule for Smite, which will increase the Warp Charge requirement by 1 for each successful cast (i.e. first smite is 5, second is 6, third is 7... and so on). So running a bunch of hemlock/spiritseer/warlock models could crush you on diminishing returns. Something to think about when investing in the future...

If you happen to be alaitoc, you can shiftshroud relic a warlock or spiritseer up the table when you deepstrike a unit of banshees. This’ll let you throw quicken at them, greatly improving their chances of charging. Easier to roll 7 (for the psychic test) than 9 after all.

You might be able to reach them with a biker warlock from regular deployment also. 34” (bike move plus power range) is a long way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mokoshkana wrote:
Just an FYI for everyone getting geeked up about bringing a boatload of psykers. There is a runmour floating around the tournament scene that Chapter Approved will implement a new rule for Smite, which will increase the Warp Charge requirement by 1 for each successful cast (i.e. first smite is 5, second is 6, third is 7... and so on). So running a bunch of hemlock/spiritseer/warlock models could crush you on diminishing returns. Something to think about when investing in the future...

Another nail in the Grey Knights coffin.

mokoshkana wrote:
Just an FYI for everyone getting geeked up about bringing a boatload of psykers. There is a runmour floating around the tournament scene that Chapter Approved will implement a new rule for Smite, which will increase the Warp Charge requirement by 1 for each successful cast (i.e. first smite is 5, second is 6, third is 7... and so on). So running a bunch of hemlock/spiritseer/warlock models could crush you on diminishing returns. Something to think about when investing in the future...

This just further kills the game for me, they may as well just get rid of the psyker phase altogether, they clearly don't want psyker armies. Just psyker support characters for the rest of your stuff (yes this is thematic for many armies but not all). I've been playing tzeentch demons for years and it's infuriating watching them slowly choke the life out of the possibility of a psyker heavy army. I don't want an army with 2-4 psykers giving out buffs/debuffs. I wanna stand on top of a mountain hurling lightning at people . It feels like I'm being punished for how I like to play, I understand nerfing malefic Lord's cause them be crazy undercosted, but the day they take any form of mass spells from me if the day I quit.

They are fixing a clearly broken spell, if they even are fixing it. Fixing broken stuff makes the game better.

With banshees, it may be better to deploy them in a wave serpent rather than deep strike. They can run incredibly fast thanks to getting out 3” + their 25mm base, moving 8” +advance (possibly using the stratagem to make it auto 6”). That’s nearly 18” of movement, leaving them needing just a 6” charge, and they get a 3” bonus for having advanced.

You do have to pay for the wave serpent of course, but it seems pretty good to me in its own right. It can be repositioned if there’s nothing available to charge on turn one - but there very often will be. And this is before you consider quickening.

I think webway strike should be used for stuff like wraithguard or fire dragons. Banshees are better off deployed.

Ecdain wrote:

mokoshkana wrote:
Just an FYI for everyone getting geeked up about bringing a boatload of psykers. There is a runmour floating around the tournament scene that Chapter Approved will implement a new rule for Smite, which will increase the Warp Charge requirement by 1 for each successful cast (i.e. first smite is 5, second is 6, third is 7... and so on). So running a bunch of hemlock/spiritseer/warlock models could crush you on diminishing returns. Something to think about when investing in the future...

This just further kills the game for me, they may as well just get rid of the psyker phase altogether, they clearly don't want psyker armies. Just psyker support characters for the rest of your stuff (yes this is thematic for many armies but not all). I've been playing tzeentch demons for years and it's infuriating watching them slowly choke the life out of the possibility of a psyker heavy army. I don't want an army with 2-4 psykers giving out buffs/debuffs. I wanna stand on top of a mountain hurling lightning at people . It feels like I'm being punished for how I like to play, I understand nerfing malefic Lord's cause them be crazy undercosted, but the day they take any form of mass spells from me if the day I quit.

Hurl those bolts, but do so knowing it's complete malarkey. Tau and other armies have no access to psychers. Spamming command detachments of spiritseers for the purpose of smiting is just abusing the psychic phase. Especially when you can continually cast them on 5+ without worry of being denied. Your mass psychic phase is safe, but your ability to reliably remove units from the table in that phase needs curbed a bit.

mokoshkana wrote:

Ecdain wrote:

mokoshkana wrote:
Just an FYI for everyone getting geeked up about bringing a boatload of psykers. There is a runmour floating around the tournament scene that Chapter Approved will implement a new rule for Smite, which will increase the Warp Charge requirement by 1 for each successful cast (i.e. first smite is 5, second is 6, third is 7... and so on). So running a bunch of hemlock/spiritseer/warlock models could crush you on diminishing returns. Something to think about when investing in the future...

This just further kills the game for me, they may as well just get rid of the psyker phase altogether, they clearly don't want psyker armies. Just psyker support characters for the rest of your stuff (yes this is thematic for many armies but not all). I've been playing tzeentch demons for years and it's infuriating watching them slowly choke the life out of the possibility of a psyker heavy army. I don't want an army with 2-4 psykers giving out buffs/debuffs. I wanna stand on top of a mountain hurling lightning at people . It feels like I'm being punished for how I like to play, I understand nerfing malefic Lord's cause them be crazy undercosted, but the day they take any form of mass spells from me if the day I quit.

Hurl those bolts, but do so knowing it's complete malarkey. Tau and other armies have no access to psychers. Spamming command detachments of spiritseers for the purpose of smiting is just abusing the psychic phase. Especially when you can continually cast them on 5+ without worry of being denied. Your mass psychic phase is safe, but your ability to reliably remove units from the table in that phase needs curbed a bit.

Well, actually, this rule might help with Warlocks. Because warlocks don't cast smite, they cast Destructor. I mean sure, it's a -version- of smite, but it's not normal smite.

Same with Grey Knights, they cast a mini-version of smite. If they make the rule that only full-strength smite has this diminishing returns, then it would actually make Grey Knights and Warlocks mildly useful as their baby-smite spam would be more efficient than the alternative.

Niiru wrote:

Well, actually, this rule might help with Warlocks. Because warlocks don't cast smite, they cast Destructor. I mean sure, it's a -version- of smite, but it's not normal smite.

Only if GW choose to specifically call them out. As it stands, Warlocks cast Smite, but they have a rule called Destructor that makes it less destructive (ha!).

Ecdain wrote:

mokoshkana wrote:
Just an FYI for everyone getting geeked up about bringing a boatload of psykers. There is a runmour floating around the tournament scene that Chapter Approved will implement a new rule for Smite, which will increase the Warp Charge requirement by 1 for each successful cast (i.e. first smite is 5, second is 6, third is 7... and so on). So running a bunch of hemlock/spiritseer/warlock models could crush you on diminishing returns. Something to think about when investing in the future...

This just further kills the game for me, they may as well just get rid of the psyker phase altogether, they clearly don't want psyker armies. Just psyker support characters for the rest of your stuff (yes this is thematic for many armies but not all). I've been playing tzeentch demons for years and it's infuriating watching them slowly choke the life out of the possibility of a psyker heavy army. I don't want an army with 2-4 psykers giving out buffs/debuffs. I wanna stand on top of a mountain hurling lightning at people . It feels like I'm being punished for how I like to play, I understand nerfing malefic Lord's cause them be crazy undercosted, but the day they take any form of mass spells from me if the day I quit.

It's not like psyker dominated armies are a part of the game, traditionally. They've always been a niche, and a troublesome one at that. Much like Flyers, they are great in the fluff, but the game plays better without them.

Interesting. Considering how powerful Mortal a Wounds are, and how hard they normally are to implement, Smite is the only easy way to employ them.

I personally feel points increase to offending models is an alternative, but I am not too concerned. I guess atleast this way you don't get people trying to find another way around the restriction to abuse how powerful Smite is.

No issue with nerfing . multiple smites, although I think units that only cause 1 wound should be exempt (destructor isn't exactly smite). I want extra psykers in my list for support, not offensive capability.

Thanks for a great thread as I am just spinning from all the possibilities of this codex. The hardest part being, I have to look at units that have sat for a while. A long while!

Have a question though as I am sure this has been asked and if it was I apologize for not seeing it, if I run two battalions one Ynnari and one Craftworld, IF I have my wraithblades in my Ynarri unit can they be a part of my Craftworld strategems... can I deep strike them as they do have Aeldari keyword? I understand that my Ynnari units are the only that can soulburst and do not gain any of the craftworld traits.

So i'm thinking of making a shining spear focused list and i'm trying to figure out how to go about it.

The main question is big units or small units of spears??

WIth 3 9 man units and either biel-tan or Saim-hann can get me a good shot at 2 turn one charges (more on that later). It seems good to have a nice big units 1 so that they can survive an alpha strike, and 2 so that i get more bang for my buck, and those units can tie up multiple units with thier charge. Providing themselves some protection by reducing enemy shooting.

With 4 6 man squads i don't have to worry so much about morale, and i can have the different units go after other targets.

SO which unit size is better???

From thier which craft world. Biel-tan or Saim-hann Both can sue quicken for 1 for sure turn one charge, and both have an ability to help with another turn 1 charge.

Biel-tan offers Court of the young king, and thus i can bring the avatar of khaine to protect the spears from morale, and provide charge rerolls. You also get reroll 1's on the shurikens

Or

Saim-hann this seems better, but i've been wrong in the past about so many other things <.<. You get to advance and charge which is 6" over the biel tan 3", and has pre baked in reroll charges. The charging unit will also pick up reroll 1's to thier melee from that as well. However, i can't do anything to help with morale. Though i will have extra points for not bring the avatar and get access to an autarch to get reroll 1's from his bubble (and maybe a command point).

ANy way i want the list to be a full press on the enemy. Trying to stop enemy shooting by charging them. As most of the top list are from recent tournaments are vulnerable to charging taking out thier shooting ability.

 Cult of My Boy Blue wrote:
Thanks for a great thread as I am just spinning from all the possibilities of this codex. The hardest part being, I have to look at units that have sat for a while. A long while!

Have a question though as I am sure this has been asked and if it was I apologize for not seeing it, if I run two battalions one Ynnari and one Craftworld, IF I have my wraithblades in my Ynarri unit can they be a part of my Craftworld strategems... can I deep strike them as they do have Aeldari keyword? I understand that my Ynnari units are the only that can soulburst and do not gain any of the craftworld traits.

Yes, you have it correctly.

The best way to go about things would then likely be a primarily Ynnari list, with a small detachment of craftworld psykers for psychic support and access to stratagems.

I like to point there is a Biel-tan stratagem that allow re-roll to wound and extra charge distance for an unit of aspects with Exarch.

It's even becomes better if the unit is at 6" from the Avatar when used.

 Cult of My Boy Blue wrote:
Thanks for a great thread as I am just spinning from all the possibilities of this codex. The hardest part being, I have to look at units that have sat for a while. A long while!

Have a question though as I am sure this has been asked and if it was I apologize for not seeing it, if I run two battalions one Ynnari and one Craftworld, IF I have my wraithblades in my Ynarri unit can they be a part of my Craftworld strategems... can I deep strike them as they do have Aeldari keyword? I understand that my Ynnari units are the only that can soulburst and do not gain any of the craftworld traits.

Yes, you can. As long as you have one craftworld detachment to unlock stratagems, those stratagems can be aimed at any unit in the whole army as long as it meets the criteria of the stratagem. eg. if the stratagem says <Wraith Construct> then that's all you need.

In fact, looking at the wording in the Codex, you could even target Ynnari units with <Craftworld> specific stratagems, as the unit still has the Craftworld keyword. The codex only says they don't gain the traits and ObSec.

Lord Perversor wrote:
I like to point there is a Biel-tan stratagem that allow re-roll to wound and extra charge distance for an unit of aspects with Exarch.

It's even becomes better if the unit is at 6" from the Avatar when used.

It does get a bit better, but it also requires you spending 250 points on a model that is really slow with no way to improve its mobility, cannot be supported by most Eldar tools, and has a statline that does not keep up with his point cost.

From a competitive end, you'd be far better off just using the stratagem without the avatar and saving your 250 points and buying an entirely new squad or two of aspects.

I got to play a test game earlier and the Spears were hugely successful. I used a full unit, which deep struck, and had psykers running up behind to cast Quicken, Protect, and Fortune. Their shooting helped bring down a Land Raider and killed a bunch of Intercessors, then they charged and killed off some Assault Terminators, and then in my opponent's turn they killed his biker Librarian in CC. I lost one model. 2+/3++/5+++ is just very hard to budge, and you're paying only 15.5 ppw. But they absolutely can't be ignored.

The big downside to them is just that they don't benefit all that much from Craftworld Attributes. I was running everything Alatoic for the sake of not having a particularly cheesy-looking list, and they literally never got shot at by anything other than Overwatch and pistols. Possibly I don't even need to deep strike them as Alatoic. I guess I could instead use the CP on a big unit of Guardians.

I feel like they're a great fit for Ynnari, since Soulburst gives you another movement option if Quicken fails and gives you a second round of shooting otherwise.

I also tried Swooping Hawks, and these didn't do much. I'm not sure they're good for much other than taking an objective that was too risky to infiltrate Rangers on to.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mmimzie wrote:
So i'm thinking of making a shining spear focused list and i'm trying to figure out how to go about it.

The main question is big units or small units of spears??

WIth 3 9 man units and either biel-tan or Saim-hann can get me a good shot at 2 turn one charges (more on that later). It seems good to have a nice big units 1 so that they can survive an alpha strike, and 2 so that i get more bang for my buck, and those units can tie up multiple units with thier charge. Providing themselves some protection by reducing enemy shooting.

With 4 6 man squads i don't have to worry so much about morale, and i can have the different units go after other targets.

SO which unit size is better???

From thier which craft world. Biel-tan or Saim-hann Both can sue quicken for 1 for sure turn one charge, and both have an ability to help with another turn 1 charge.

Biel-tan offers Court of the young king, and thus i can bring the avatar of khaine to protect the spears from morale, and provide charge rerolls. You also get reroll 1's on the shurikens

Or

Saim-hann this seems better, but i've been wrong in the past about so many other things <.<. You get to advance and charge which is 6" over the biel tan 3", and has pre baked in reroll charges. The charging unit will also pick up reroll 1's to thier melee from that as well. However, i can't do anything to help with morale. Though i will have extra points for not bring the avatar and get access to an autarch to get reroll 1's from his bubble (and maybe a command point).

ANy way i want the list to be a full press on the enemy. Trying to stop enemy shooting by charging them. As most of the top list are from recent tournaments are vulnerable to charging taking out thier shooting ability.

I think that, aside from one or maybe two units which benefit from stratagems or psychic powers, you really just want 3-man Spears units. You give up a little bit in that you tie things up less efficiently and take a bit more Overwatch fire, but the Exarch is just so much better than a normal Spear that it's worth it. That he has three wounds is alone a huge deal. He takes the squad from 15.5 ppw to 13.6 ppw, with the option to take 2-damage hits like overcharged plasma on a 3-wound model. And then he gets 50% more attacks which are 25% better against T4 and 100% better against T7. And he re-rolls wounds against monsters and vehicles, including with his shuriken catapults. He's worth almost as much as 2 regular Spears. Consider that a regular Spear expects to do 1.85 wounds to a Razorback. The Exarch with star lance expects 5.6 wounds (and also it's kind of nuts that a 95 point, <14ppw unit has a good chance of destroying a T7 W10 target when starting from ~20" away). I think that in my relatively more casual pure Alatoic list I'm going to just start bringing multiple small Spears squads.

I like the looks of putting two full units of Saim-Hann banshees in the webway. They need 6+ on 2D6 with rerolls to get into combat and avoid overwatch. Alternatively, a unit of Shining Spears and a Skyrunner Warlock casting Quicken coming out of the webway should let the bikes move over whatever screening unit is present and shoot/charge something good on the first turn. I believe those can be Ynnari spears, as well. Definitely a good panic unit to throw right into an opponent's deployment zone from the get-go.

I too was interested in Saim Hann banshees coming in through webway assault but they only get the bonus to charge if they advance. Quicken works of course, and re-rolls to charge help, but they're no better than wraithblades, scorpions, or any other unit after deepstriking.

 Oaka wrote:
I like the looks of putting two full units of Saim-Hann banshees in the webway. They need 6+ on 2D6 with rerolls to get into combat and avoid overwatch.

This is incorrect. Banshees only add 3" to their charge range on turns they Advance. You don't get an opportunity to Advance with Webway Strike.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Oaka wrote:
I like the looks of putting two full units of Saim-Hann banshees in the webway. They need 6+ on 2D6 with rerolls to get into combat and avoid overwatch.

This is incorrect. Banshees only add 3" to their charge range on turns they Advance. You don't get an opportunity to Advance with Webway Strike.

yeah currently the best turn 1 charge options availible to us are. Court of the young king Biel-tan only which is 2-3 (even just 2 is a pretty decent bonus), and i prefer scoprs for this because they come with thier own deepstrike mechanic. Also, since your deep striking you'll be out of the range of most flamers so the banshee mask isn't such a big deal. Saim-Hann has decent turn one charge option in the form of warriors of the raging winds, allows bike to advance and charge pulling off a 22" move which in many deployment maps is a really easy turn 1 charge. These two strategems are not availible to ynnari. units of 3 vypers move 20" if not knocked down to 2, and with saim-hann craftworld giving them re-roll charges can make a good first turn charge to turn off a unit's shooting.


One small nod craftworld eldar have over taking the units in ynnari would be war lord traits and relics. Neither can be takening in ynnari as you war lord must be one of the the ynnari dudes. The Biel-tan relic the spirit stone is very nice because given to a warlock allows you to reroll your quick spell cast (which is another turn 1 charge options).

Though i would like a tune down on the ynnari perhaps blocking them from taking aspect warriors or something. Not that i think ynnari is wildly over powered; more that ithink eldar is actualy at a good spot, but ynnari can kind of do a lot of it better. I definitly think thier are a few nice things eldar can do over ynnari, but those are pretty small things when compared to strength from death and how it can be utilized.