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So concerning these Schockguards against imperial Knights: Would you drop them via Tyrannocyte, use the tunnel of jormungandr or just run them up the field?

Hmm. KrakkaFexes lose the usual dakkafex melee issue by just walking away, enabling BS3+ to fire at full effect as long as you don’t get enveloped. 5pts for a cheeky tail swipe is fair. Goooood call.

 lindsay40k wrote:
Hmm. KrakkaFexes lose the usual dakkafex melee issue by just walking away, enabling BS3+ to fire at full effect as long as you don’t get enveloped. 5pts for a cheeky tail swipe is fair. Goooood call.

Kraken does not allow you to fallback and shoot.

Ooooh, it’s charging!

Hmm. Not sold on it, then. Don’t like to invest heavily in short-ranged firepower that can’t deal with modest tarpits and duelists.

Astmeister wrote:So concerning these Schockguards against imperial Knights: Would you drop them via Tyrannocyte, use the tunnel of jormungandr or just run them up the field?

While I like Jormungandr, the Tyrannocyte is probably going to be the easier to option to incorporate into most lists, plus it has a huge base to block movement with. Also it leaves open the ability to hide an important monster off table for the first turn if you really need to keep it safe (Swarmy being the most obvious choice).

lindsay40k wrote:
Hmm. Not sold on it, then. Don’t like to invest heavily in short-ranged firepower that can’t deal with modest tarpits and duelists.

To be fair, after a barrage of Brainleech fire there probably won't be much of a potential tarpit left. Being able to withdraw and charge works rather well with Living Battering Ram as well.

On a related note, has anyone had much table time with the other Carnifex variants? I have a trio of Stonecrushers sitting on my painting desk and another one without arms that could be converted to a Screamer Killer or Thornback.

lindsay40k wrote:Ooooh, it’s charging!

Hmm. Not sold on it, then. Don’t like to invest heavily in short-ranged firepower that can’t deal with modest tarpits and duelists.

Well, fair enough. That's what the Dakkafex is no matter which Hive Fleet you run, I think KrakkaFexes are just the best way to let them perform their role (although it's to preference). I generally take other units to screen for them.

Strat_N8 wrote:
On a related note, has anyone had much table time with the other Carnifex variants? I have a trio of Stonecrushers sitting on my painting desk and another one without arms that could be converted to a Screamer Killer or Thornback.

I HAVENT played them, but I feel like Stonecrushers are incredibly powerful. With the wrecking Ball they can just shred both infantry and tanks. 2" range is massive, that's like 4 rows if they surround you, and although I think a good opponent will really mitigate that if they don't want to lose the infantry, it does mean they can't pile in and surround you or chip you down too much, and you'll always be killing a few. I really want to run Stonecrushers but I can't justify buying them, might proxy my current ones in a friendly game and see how a bunch of them perform with an Old One Eye in there with them.

 Astmeister wrote:
So concerning these Schockguards against imperial Knights: Would you drop them via Tyrannocyte, use the tunnel of jormungandr or just run them up the field?

I dont like Tyrannocytes, but thats just me

I would like to have a use for my Tyrannocyte and the Schockguard might be the only proper way to play it.

 SHUPPET wrote:

lindsay40k wrote:Ooooh, it’s charging!

Hmm. Not sold on it, then. Don’t like to invest heavily in short-ranged firepower that can’t deal with modest tarpits and duelists.

Well, fair enough. That's what the Dakkafex is no matter which Hive Fleet you run, I think KrakkaFexes are just the best way to let them perform their role (although it's to preference). I generally take other units to screen for them.

 Astmeister wrote:
I would like to have a use for my Tyrannocyte and the Schockguard might be the only proper way to play it.

Why not 30 Devourer Gants, or a Max squad of Deathspitter/Venom Cannon Warriors? Or even Pyrovores. All of them make good deep strike targets.

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:
I would like to have a use for my Tyrannocyte and the Schockguard might be the only proper way to play it.

Why not 30 Devourer Gants, or a Max squad of Deathspitter/Venom Cannon Warriors? Or even Pyrovores. All of them make good deep strike targets.

Edit: Well you can also do Zoanthropes? Cant you do all 12 of them and DS them and use the stratagem? Its been a long time since i read the rules for the Tpod


Edit: NOPE, its 1 unit, so IDK about it, i think they best use for it would be shockguard against Knights or still Pyrovores for Anti Infantry. I wish there was a cheap way to DS a bunc of small 1 model units like Pyrovovres, i would get some if i could do that.

The cheap way is called Jormungard.

That still takes CP and some Tyrgons/Mawlocks and that is not cheap. I can just take a Trygon in general to do that i dont need Jormungandr. Jmung just makes it so Ravagers/Mawlocks can do it too.

To bad our 1 and only 1 transport is limited to 1 unit.

Pyrovores don't do enough damage to justify the high price for the Cyte. Warriors might be okay. 30 gants does not work. It is restricted to 20 models. Zoans are also fine, but psi can be blocked easily.

 Astmeister wrote:
Pyrovores don't do enough damage to justify the high price for the Cyte. Warriors might be okay. 30 gants does not work. It is restricted to 20 models. Zoans are also fine, but psi can be blocked easily.

If it was 90pts at least instead of 123pts it might be more useful, being BS 5 and can move isnt that good, espeically when we can use actually good monsters to DS units, its only good quality is it can transport 1 MC, but being a huge cost for that is pointsless when you could have Wing Tyrants DS, walking Htyrants/SL DS via traits, so its really only good for 4-5 MC's, Fex's, Toxicrene, Exocrine, Tervigon, Maleceptor, Haruspex. And most of those are tough enough you dont need the Pod, or cheap enough that you dont care (Fex's).

It just needs to be cheaper.

That is one thing i dont have, a Maleceptor or Haruspex, i should get a couple, they seem fun for semi-comp.

A maleceptor leviathan rushing the enemy lines with overdrive is borderline competitive. Drop mortal wounds on the enemy, screws the enemy psy phase and is though and cheap enough to be a distraction fex.

Tyrannocyte is incredibly overpriced, any sort of infantry is just better in a Trygon and any sort of MC cannot justify that cost added to its points.

 Astmeister wrote:
Pyrovores don't do enough damage to justify the high price for the Cyte. Warriors might be okay. 30 gants does not work. It is restricted to 20 models. Zoans are also fine, but psi can be blocked easily.

It’s just a unit right? They took out the 20 model restriction with 8th didn’t they?

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:
Pyrovores don't do enough damage to justify the high price for the Cyte. Warriors might be okay. 30 gants does not work. It is restricted to 20 models. Zoans are also fine, but psi can be blocked easily.

It’s just a unit right? They took out the 20 model restriction with 8th didn’t they?

It 1 unit of 20 models or 1 MC with 14 wounds or less

Yep, no Heiraphants popping out of tyranocytes.

Tho, someone somewhere else brought up, a unit of Warriors max squad of 9 could do well in a Pod, Bring in the Prime via Trygon or something else if you wanted the prime near.

9 with Deathspitters and AG's/BS's giving its +1 to charge with CP re-roll, thats a ton of damage that you could do.

So is there any reliable source to drop an Imperial Knight or is everyone just ignoring these things? Mortal Wounds?

 Astmeister wrote:
So is there any reliable source to drop an Imperial Knight or is everyone just ignoring these things? Mortal Wounds?

MW's, Hive Guard, Powers, Stratagems, etc.. I mean we can make a Hive Tyrant on 6's deal 8 wounds lol, but thats not really reliable.

All of the above mentioned take a couple of turns killing a knight. And tyranids do not have the option for Las cans in every squad.

Tyrant Guard with Crushing Claws seem to hit a sweet spot according to my calculations.

 Astmeister wrote:
All of the above mentioned take a couple of turns killing a knight. And tyranids do not have the option for Las cans in every squad.

We can focus fire down a Knight in 1 turn, we have stratagems for MW's +1D, etc... Hiveguard or Exocrine shooting twice is pretty powerful, Shockguard shooting twice could easily kill a knight alone. If I remember its average of 12 shots, 8 get through 4 damage from those 8 and 4 MW's if you dont roll any 6's, so 8-9 wounds (going off memory and really fast math). So you could do 16-18 wounds with just 1 unit, sure its la 230pts unit and you used 2CP, but its well worth it to kill a 400pts+ unit lol, well besides the Knight Castellan, but at least 1 unit can take away 50-75pts of its wounds (they will most likely use the +1save stratagem)

Or a OOE/Stone Crusher Fex lol.

Just take a few wounds with shooting and finish them with Genestealers.

As with everything nid, don't find a single way to do that. Nids are an army of soft counters.

You drop a knight like you reach any other objective, with multiple soft counters together. Take some wounds with smites, take some wounds with shooting, take some wounds with stratagems, take the last wounds in assault. Done.

Sure, a knight is something that requires the full attention of your whole army to go down in a turn, but that is normal when you consider how many points they do cost.

That is, if we are talking about a knight like the gallant that wants to get close and personal, because i don't feel that the shooting version of a knight is something to prioritize. Castellans may be a problem, but that's what the horror is for.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:
All of the above mentioned take a couple of turns killing a knight. And tyranids do not have the option for Las cans in every squad.

We can focus fire down a Knight in 1 turn, we have stratagems for MW's +1D, etc... Hiveguard or Exocrine shooting twice is pretty powerful, Shockguard shooting twice could easily kill a knight alone. If I remember its average of 12 shots, 8 get through 4 damage from those 8 and 4 MW's if you dont roll any 6's, so 8-9 wounds (going off memory and really fast math). So you could do 16-18 wounds with just 1 unit, sure its la 230pts unit and you used 2CP, but its well worth it to kill a 400pts+ unit lol, well besides the Knight Castellan, but at least 1 unit can take away 50-75pts of its wounds (they will most likely use the +1save stratagem)

Or a OOE/Stone Crusher Fex lol.

Exocrine can't shoot twice, also he may as well be Warriors firing Deathspitters against a unit with T8 and 4+ invul.

double shooting shock guard should do 21 wounds i think

double shooting impaler guard does just 8


you could combine enough things and maybe do it i guess

 lindsay40k wrote:
Ooooh, it’s charging!

Hmm. Not sold on it, then. Don’t like to invest heavily in short-ranged firepower that can’t deal with modest tarpits and duelists.

I used to run kraken with them - if you give them acid maw instead of enhanced sense you get 4 lets hits in shooting but get 4 really powerful CC attacks and 1 not so bad attack with your bone mace - plus that 4+ to mortal wound every time you charge. Its the same prices so YMMV. If they have a -1 to hit hitting on 5's really blows or if you have to advance to shoot. However if you get 3-4 of these guys going ham you can do a lot of damage to all kinds of units.

These days I am running leviathan. The 6+++ is just too good to pass up.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Astmeister wrote:
So is there any reliable source to drop an Imperial Knight or is everyone just ignoring these things? Mortal Wounds?

heavy venom cannons do just fine - just enough AP to make them waste CP to go to a 4+ and 3 flat damage and you wound on 3's. A HT with HVC PS and smite can do reasonable damage in a turn against one to. In CC he will get no save when you roll a 6 on MRC and wounding on 5's base means you should roll 2 6's on average. That's 8 damage automatic if you take toxin sacs (well its a little less than 2 6's on average but it's close) If you have ymarl factor both +1 T and +1A help you a lot vs a knight too. You could always bring Tfex as well but I think knights are just going to gib him to easy - If you shoot first though you could do considerable damage.