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 Insectum7 wrote:
It's a little controversial whether the cost is in the gun or the guy, but sure. My VCs are always Primed for a 3+, anyways. Still, you have a 30 point gun vs.a 12 point gun doing much the same task, essentially.

The special weapons etc should factor in BS for price(too bad GW is very lazy on that. IG with BS3/4 plasma/melta being prime difference). Reason being improved BS is much better on big gun than small gun. BS2+ matters lot more when you are fielding lascannon vs bolt pistol. It's cumulative effect. If it was on model's price you would have to price BS on best gun available and then imagine overprice if he carries laspistol...

Can I again ask opinions whether or not we can use Red Terror as a cheap delivery service with Jormungandr?

Astmeister you can.

One unit of ravenors and The Red Terror gives you decent real estate to bring in 3-5 units.

The ravenors give you about 16" and Red terror gives you another 7" so you can pile in a lot of stuff behind/infront of them.

 Astmeister wrote:
Can I again ask opinions whether or not we can use Red Terror as a cheap delivery service with Jormungandr?

It's a little debatable. They FAQ'd 'The Enemy Below' so that it works based on keywords rather than units. Specifically RAVENERS, MAWLOC, TRYGON or TRYGON PRIME.
At a first glance you'd think this allows it to work with the Red Terror, since it has the RAVENER keyword. However do you consider that to be the same as the RAVENERS keyword? Pedantic maybe, but there you go.

Arson Fire wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:
Can I again ask opinions whether or not we can use Red Terror as a cheap delivery service with Jormungandr?

It's a little debatable. They FAQ'd 'The Enemy Below' so that it works based on keywords rather than units. Specifically RAVENERS, MAWLOC, TRYGON or TRYGON PRIME.
At a first glance you'd think this allows it to work with the Red Terror, since it has the RAVENER keyword. However do you consider that to be the same as the RAVENERS keyword? Pedantic maybe, but there you go.

God. GW....

This came up in one of my discussions yesterday too... ugh.

Arson Fire wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:
Can I again ask opinions whether or not we can use Red Terror as a cheap delivery service with Jormungandr?

It's a little debatable. They FAQ'd 'The Enemy Below' so that it works based on keywords rather than units. Specifically RAVENERS, MAWLOC, TRYGON or TRYGON PRIME.
At a first glance you'd think this allows it to work with the Red Terror, since it has the RAVENER keyword. However do you consider that to be the same as the RAVENERS keyword? Pedantic maybe, but there you go.

Oh come on, if we are really considering Ravener and RavenerS to be different keywords we cannot even blame it on GW, we are just making our own problems here.

The thing with Ravener and Raveners also came to my mind.
Well if it would be possible to use the Red Terror, we had the cheapest delivery service with it.

Just laugh at whoever tries to pull that on you.

Brood Telepathy buffs Genestealer units. We don't have Genestealer units in the codex, only GenestealerS units.

Alpha Warrior buffs Tyranid Warrior units, same as above.

For keywords in particular:

Old One Eye's aura affects CARNIFEX units. The Carnifexes datasheet has CARNIFEXES keyword.

And finally, The Red Terror's aura Feeding Frenzy buffs all RAVENER units. Guess what is on the datasheet for Raveners?
Yep, RAVENERS.

Kitane wrote:
Just laugh at whoever tries to pull that on you.

Brood Telepathy buffs Genestealer units. We don't have Genestealer units in the codex, only GenestealerS units.

Alpha Warrior buffs Tyranid Warrior units, same as above.

For keywords in particular:

Old One Eye's aura affects CARNIFEX units. The Carnifexes datasheet has CARNIFEXES keyword.

And finally, The Red Terror's aura Feeding Frenzy buffs all RAVENER units. Guess what is on the datasheet for Raveners?
Yep, RAVENERS.

yeah, that's this one put to rest

Kitane wrote:
Just laugh at whoever tries to pull that on you..

exalted!!!

Excellent. I had to bring it up, as it's important to know about these sorts of issues that others may try to spring on you, so that counter-arguments can be developed and spread. Good to see that there is a compelling counter to this one

Kitane wrote:
Just laugh at whoever tries to pull that on you.

Brood Telepathy buffs Genestealer units. We don't have Genestealer units in the codex, only GenestealerS units.

Alpha Warrior buffs Tyranid Warrior units, same as above.

For keywords in particular:

Old One Eye's aura affects CARNIFEX units. The Carnifexes datasheet has CARNIFEXES keyword.

And finally, The Red Terror's aura Feeding Frenzy buffs all RAVENER units. Guess what is on the datasheet for Raveners?
Yep, RAVENERS.

Phew ok, excellent.

Just received my Malanthrope.....woot.

Now I can build the army that I want. heehee

Hey Tyranid community, first post on here. I have a 2 day 1850pt tournament on the weekend (pre-CA rules).

Taking this:

Kraken Battalion
Flyrant, Wings, 4x Devourers, -1 to hit Relic
Malanthrope

18x Genestealers
5x Genestealer
10x Hormagant

6x Hive Guard

3x Carnifex, 4x Devourers, Enhanced Senses, Bone Mace, Adrenal Glands


Kronos Battalion

Flyrant, Wings, 4x Devourers
Flyrant, Wings, 4x Devourers

3x Rippers
3x Rippers
10x Termagants




Plan is to just get Hive Guard into position and then put an aggressive Devourer+Malanthrope gunline up the field and shoot everything to pieces. A nice spread of different troops should give me the right tools to do whatever is required that match (likely just screening the gunline), and of course one full unit of Genestealers for rip and tearing and all the tricks that come with them.

I've used a similar list at 2k points to success and I actually think it may be even stronger at 1850, although I had to drop some Hormagants and a fex. Hopefully I have enough there to stop the front lines getting swarmed by CC dudes, though I think with this many devourers I should only need a turn or so of shooting to at least thin them far enough that my bubble/wall of bugs can't get surrounded and locked in CC, especially with Flyrants being able to fall back for free. I'll let you guys know how it goes.

Why are the hive guard not in the kronos detachment for the reroll 1's in shooting? Also one unit of 5 genestealers is bad bad bad. Just take a unit of rippers and bring your first stealer squad up to 20 strong.


Your kraken Flyrant should also have Monstrous rending claws and a toxin sac upgrade over double devourers. He's actually quite good at taking out flyers that way. You have way too much shooting at no AP. You'll do basically nothing to 2+ armor saves.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Why are the hive guard not in the kronos detachment for the reroll 1's in shooting? Also one unit of 5 genestealers is bad bad bad. Just take a unit of rippers and bring your first stealer squad up to 20 strong.


Your kraken Flyrant should also have Monstrous rending claws and a toxin sac upgrade over double devourers. He's actually quite good at taking out flyers that way. You have way too much shooting at no AP. You'll do basically nothing to 2+ armor saves.

Because sometimes you need to run the Hive Guard first turn and you don't want them caught out. Other people discussed it in here recently actually! 5 Genestealers aren't bad bad bad at all, they are the fastest obsec unit we have, that can also actually fight other troops off objectives, or contribute more blades to a melee blob if needed. I want more units on the field I do not want a third unit of Rippers, 5 Stealers are a swiss army knife that can direct a bit of extra force wherever needed or really do any other role quite well that any troop can. I notice its actually getting more and more popular as a choice.

The second half is a good point. But I don't want to assault with Flyrants I personally find it's never worth it, especially when it's just them in their on their own. I was considering taking an Exocrine, seeing as I already have a Malanthrope, or maybe even just more, though there's only so many that can hide at once. I may just try brute force through the 2+'s, they aren't that common around here.

 First Among Gators wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Why are the hive guard not in the kronos detachment for the reroll 1's in shooting? Also one unit of 5 genestealers is bad bad bad. Just take a unit of rippers and bring your first stealer squad up to 20 strong.


Your kraken Flyrant should also have Monstrous rending claws and a toxin sac upgrade over double devourers. He's actually quite good at taking out flyers that way. You have way too much shooting at no AP. You'll do basically nothing to 2+ armor saves.

Because sometimes you need to run the Hive Guard first turn and you don't want them caught out. Other people discussed it in here recently actually! 5 Genestealers aren't bad bad bad at all, they are the fastest obsec unit we have, that can also actually fight other troops off objectives, or contribute more blades to a melee blob if needed. I want more units on the field I do not want a third unit of Rippers, 5 Stealers are a swiss army knife that can direct a bit of extra force wherever needed or really do any other role quite well that any troop can. I notice its actually getting more and more popular as a choice.

The second half is a good point. But I don't want to assault with Flyrants I personally find it's never worth it, especially when it's just them in their on their own. I was considering taking an Exocrine, seeing as I already have a Malanthrope, or maybe even just more, though there's only so many that can hide at once. I may just try brute force through the 2+'s, they aren't that common around here.

You really WANT to assault with your flyrants! TRUST me!! i am always bringing 3 Kraken flyrants with devs and rending claws and they do all the job when assaulting...devourers are really pathetic and work only on t3 infantry sometimes also if you are deepstiking them dont forget to upgrade with adrenal glants!

Anyone else thinking the Exocrine is going to be great at 170?

A Kronos Exocrine definitely will be appearing in my lists now.

He looks good but it's a very boring unit.

I really more excited about tyranofex with acid spray.

FIXED ERROR* See below.

The Tyrannofex dropped by 30 points AFAIK.

 Astmeister wrote:
The Tyrannofex dropped by 30 points AFAIK.

Oh it did! 151 from 181. Okay so it is actually really nice now. With acid spray it's only 189 now.

I plan on using the Rupture cannon as a sit back artillery hiding on one side of terrain on a far flank. Let the enemy maneuver to shoot me than I can shoot back without moving.

Any good tactics for the Rupture Cannon or targets?

The rapture Canon was only worth it before against t8 targets in comparison to the exocrine. Now it is even worse, since the crine dropped by more points than the Tyrannofex.
It just makes sense from rule of cool perspective.

 Astmeister wrote:
The rapture Canon was only worth it before against t8 targets in comparison to the exocrine. Now it is even worse, since the crine dropped by more points than the Tyrannofex.
It just makes sense from rule of cool perspective.

T8 is more popular than ever and also a problem for us usually 48" range is a blessing when all the biggest targets often hit that far or more. Might still be worth it.

Yeah i also like the fex with rapture. Just saying that the Exocrine is a tough competition.

I need to give the pyrovores a go, but the models are in finecast and too costly. Anyone knows of any good conversion?

Spoletta wrote:
I need to give the pyrovores a go, but the models are in finecast and too costly. Anyone knows of any good conversion?

co-sign, they look really strong now but i'm not using that model

Kraken pyrovores are great. People aren't used to seeing them, so they tend to underestimate them. They make a great bodyguard for your characters and if your opponent ignores them they are quite nasty. Also very useful for cleaning up those annoying scout units.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Kraken pyrovores are great. People aren't used to seeing them, so they tend to underestimate them. They make a great bodyguard for your characters and if your opponent ignores them they are quite nasty. Also very useful for cleaning up those annoying scout units.

Yeah they seem great but basically require converted models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What the heck is up with malecptors?
How can such bad rules exist?