Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

xmbk wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
It says in its rules Living Bombs: "If you are playing matched play games, the creation of new Spore Mines is free, and Spore Mine's points cost does not come out of your pool of reinforcement points."

Clearly this is not referring to a new full size unit. The wording may allow it in the new codex, but I would not be surprised to see it FAQ'd away.

When a biovore shoots it's gun it creates a new unit of spore mines. The size of the unit doesn't matter/is irrelevant. It creates a new unit.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
Wow... yeah. Synapse is all Hive fleet based now. gak.

That will make multiple detachments hard.

IMO its a great example of "soft balance". You can do it, but things might get awkward.

I suppose so. Our traits are powerful.

The fact that one doesn't leap out as "auto-take" is pretty solid too. I like Jormungandr personally, because a ball of 5+/5+++ devgants shooting 180 dice per turn they aren't addressed is just awesomesauce. But others have found really good uses for the other traits as well.

How is everyone taking their carnifexes? I’m thinking of giving old one eye an honour guard of 2 fexen but I don’t know how to kit them out. Dakkafexes to clear out screens as he advances? Screamerkillers to wade into melee alongside their boss? Thornbacks for a middle ground?

Yeah, I think I will be doing Jormungandr myself as well. The more I look at it it's too flexible. I can adapt my deployments and which units are set up in tunnels or on the field each game without really changing the list itself but have entirely different first turn impacts.

Jormungandr is great.

And because its during set up you can do this as much as you want then also yea? Stratagem: The Enemy Below (1CP)

So like 3 Ravener units and 3 units of 30 dakkagauntzs turn1?

The Jormungandr are quite good.

I think Jormungandr and Leviathan are the best all rounder. Mine are painted in the Leviathan colour scheme. I am on the fence on weather I want to be tematic or not.

I guess for me it depends how many units I can stack around a lictor taxi. The 3 model unit of the ravener taxi is cleraly superior when it comes to placement.

I am planing of making a full MCU list to get the whole 12 command points.

 Lance845 wrote:

xmbk wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
It says in its rules Living Bombs: "If you are playing matched play games, the creation of new Spore Mines is free, and Spore Mine's points cost does not come out of your pool of reinforcement points."

Clearly this is not referring to a new full size unit. The wording may allow it in the new codex, but I would not be surprised to see it FAQ'd away.

When a biovore shoots it's gun it creates a new unit of spore mines. The size of the unit doesn't matter/is irrelevant. It creates a new unit.

I understand what it is technically saying. I also know it was written before there was a stratagem for pregame units. I think it's reasonable to expect a FAQ, assuming it's not made clear somewhere in the codex.

I am going to be buying some Raveners for sure. I always wanted to but they were never particularly good. Now I needs them.

 Marmatag wrote:

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

 Zimko wrote:
So, kill or tie up a screen with 30 devgaunts from a raveners tunnel (Jorg strat) and bring 30 horms from a Trygon tunnel with a glands (And or make them behemoth). Follow up with smite spam from neuros to kill vehicles. With 5 neuros, that's roughly 1000 points. Still plenty of room to add a ranged element and objective grabbers. Rippers, regular gaunts, malanthrope, biovores, hive guard. Whatever ends up being most point efficient and capable of dealing with vehicle spam.

But alas the codex isn't here yet so this is just speculation.

I've been doing something similar to this. I run 60 gants and 20 stealers on the board, have 2x trygons, 1 with 20 stealers and 1 with 30 devgants.

Works very well. Will work better with codex buffs.

I guess what i'm saying is you wouldn't need the Trygon with the new stratagem to deploy your devgaunts.

Do you find your list is competitive now with those models? Do you also run the Swarmlord?

I definitely agree with you. The Trygons are decent beatsticks, but expensive and with the firepower most armies bring they die too easily. I'm not sure the 2+ from Jorm would be enough to keep them alive, though adrenal glands and reroll to charges gives them a pretty solid chance to make it.

I find it semi-competitive. I think adjusting some stuff around and with the new codex, the principle of running 60 horms for tying things up and using devilgaunts/genestealers as your primary damage dealers will actually work well. I don't use swarmlord.

You highlight something I think I touched on earlier too - being able to "deep strike" our hordes without spending a fortune on Trygons could very well allow us to run 200+ body lists.

Considering Genestealers and dev gants are our 2 most cost efficient sources of damage, this is something we should be talking more about. Until smite gets nerfed (Rumors are leaning towards limit of 3 per turn), burying neurothropes in hordes will be very efficient.

Something like
Behemoth/Leviathan/Kraken 490
Neurothrope x2
Hormagaunts 3x30

Jormungandr 1269
Broodlord x2
Genestealers 2x20
Devgants x30
Raveners 3x3

Kronos
3x Neurothrope

For a total of 1969, with 10 CP. 20x GS and 30x dev gants are 240, so you basically can swap to taste in that regard, subbing broodlords for neurothropes for cheaper hq. Could also use Lictors over Raveners, though not sure about getting 20-30 models within 3" of one model or the specifics of that strat. The Kronos neurothrope supreme command gives you access to the anti-psyker strat which could be critical, and the d3 MW warlord trait should you face smite spam yourself.

Lots of room for adjustments, but this is just a rough idea based on what we're talking about.

I am thinking in set up that U would deploy 2 units of Raveners in tunnels with 2 30 man blobs of devilgaunts.

Drop 2 or 3 spores with the CPs (depending on how it's worded and actually works).

A couple exocrines.... The rest is kind of up in the air. I have so much I want to do I can't fit it all.

 Lance845 wrote:
I am thinking in set up that U would deploy 2 units of Raveners in tunnels with 2 30 man blobs of devilgaunts.

Drop 2 or 3 spores with the CPs (depending on how it's worded and actually works).

A couple exocrines.... The rest is kind of up in the air. I have so much I want to do I can't fit it all.

You could definitely swap to 1 unit of stealers and 2 units of dev gaunts. Drop 1 broolord to neuro for points and put toxin sacs on the stealers. Then you have the ability to use the stealers for specific high armor high wound targets.

Depending on the wording on the spore mine strat, it could very well become a go-to at the start, though 3 CP is a lot, and most armies aren't rushing out to 12" to give Tyranids first turn charges. I think spore launchers allowing you to hem in specific targets to reduce their ability to respond to your forces is much, much stronger.

Also, I think the most important bit about nids in general is the way our Adaptations and rumored Strategems gives us complete board control.

We can deepstrike too much too easily within ranges other players cannot match (using lictors and pheromone trails).

while dropping walls of spore mines to control first turn movement channels.

With the way 40k plays being able to deploy your guys and act on the first turn generally dictates the rest of the game. Enemies HAVE to bottle up and play defensively if we show up with any deepstrike/infiltrate ability.

Our command points are going to be a precious commodity but they are also easily acquired.

We are going to feth some gak up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
I am thinking in set up that U would deploy 2 units of Raveners in tunnels with 2 30 man blobs of devilgaunts.

Drop 2 or 3 spores with the CPs (depending on how it's worded and actually works).

A couple exocrines.... The rest is kind of up in the air. I have so much I want to do I can't fit it all.

You could definitely swap to 1 unit of stealers and 2 units of dev gaunts. Drop 1 broolord to neuro for points and put toxin sacs on the stealers. Then you have the ability to use the stealers for specific high armor high wound targets.

Depending on the wording on the spore mine strat, it could very well become a go-to at the start, though 3 CP is a lot, and most armies aren't rushing out to 12" to give Tyranids first turn charges. I think spore launchers allowing you to hem in specific targets to reduce their ability to respond to your forces is much, much stronger.

The thing with the spore mines is because it's a command point options you can scale it to the specific game on deployment. If he board is way to open and it wont do much just don't do it at all. If it's got good terrain you can easily use 2 drops of spores along with your deepstrikes to completely control first turn movement for the enemy.

Every shot fired at a spore mine to clear it out of the way is a shot not fired at a deepstriking devilgaunt. Every devilgaunt shot at in turn 1 means a blob of spore mines is getting closer.

 Marmatag wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
Wow... yeah. Synapse is all Hive fleet based now. gak.

That will make multiple detachments hard.

IMO its a great example of "soft balance". You can do it, but things might get awkward.

I suppose so. Our traits are powerful.

The fact that one doesn't leap out as "auto-take" is pretty solid too. I like Jormungandr personally, because a ball of 5+/5+++ devgants shooting 180 dice per turn they aren't addressed is just awesomesauce. But others have found really good uses for the other traits as well.

Agreed about Jormungandr, that was my first pick as well. 3+ saves on Warriors is great. Even better is the fact that they don't count as 3+ saves for Grav weapons, which would be the best marine Heavy against them.

I suspect I might enjoy Kraken too, for the speed, but we'll see. The Jormungandr combo just looks really good right now.

Regular lictor taxi is good enough for big blobs if you pack it in.

1cp pheromone trail
choose when nid inf set up as reinf/reserve. if got lictor on battlefield, you can set up wholly within 6 inch of lictor and more than 9 from enemy

Asuming you can deploy them at the same time as the lictor. And that you can use this strategem more then 1's, and more then 1's per lictor. You could pick up 9 warriors, and 1 prime. Come down, shoot a bit. Pew pew. With Adrenal Glands on the warriors you might even get of a charge if you are Behemot.

 Lance845 wrote:

The thing with the spore mines is because it's a command point options you can scale it to the specific game on deployment. If he board is way to open and it wont do much just don't do it at all. If it's got good terrain you can easily use 2 drops of spores along with your deepstrikes to completely control first turn movement for the enemy.

Every shot fired at a spore mine to clear it out of the way is a shot not fired at a deepstriking devilgaunt. Every devilgaunt shot at in turn 1 means a blob of spore mines is getting closer.

I'm in full agreement, just looking at the limitations of the ability.

So I want to know if Deathspitters are now 5 points for just Tyrannocytes, or 5 pts for everything. Because if it's everything, my Warrior army just saved a bunch of points.

My initial thinking for a potent list makes use of Behemoth and the Lictor strat to reserve a ton of stuff for cheap:

Brigade:

Swarmy
Flyrant w AG, HVC & either MRC or Boneswords depending on pts. Swap HVC for Miasma Cannon.
Broodlord
Neurothrope

20 Genes
20 Genes
30 Devilgants
3 Rippers
3 Rippers
3 Rippers

Lictor
Lictor
Lictor

3 Sky-slashers
3 Sky-slashers
3 Sky-slashers
[swap these for Mucolids if the points end up too high]

Biovore
Biovore
Biovore

Tyrannocyte w/ DS

So 12 total CP. The bolded stuff deep striking - so spending 4CP on giving 2 genes, devilgants and the Broodlord the ability to accompany Lictors. This is assuming you can setup multiple units near one Lictor, ofc. Basically the list deposits as much as it can in the opponent's face early on, and rerolls to charge thanks to Behemoth. I will also likely be using the 2cp strat to fire the Devilgants twice to obliterate bubble wrap, but thanks to the Brigade that still leaves me with 6cp left - and I have a ton of Mind eaters who can gain some back off killing characters.

Flyrant setup gives me D6 Str9 ap-2 D3 shots and effectively 2 smites (take Psy Scream) on the drop turn, which isn't half bad.

Anyword on the tyrannocyte? Can you shove any 20 units you want in there? or does it still say unit?

 dan2026 wrote:
The only issue I really have with Tyrannofexes is they really need a Synapse Creature to stay within 24" to keep them able to fire at full efficiency.

And I haven't quite worked out which Synapse Creature this should be.

You've got about a month to enjoy the mandatory Malanthrope, before it gets a big point increase.

Can you use the jorm strat for multiple units? Do we have the full wording yet? Because raveners taxis for 30man blobs is insanely good if you can do it for multiple units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or you could bring warriors or genestealers.... Or pyrovores

And 90points gets you 3 raveners with deathspitters and rending claws. Pretty cheap.

 N.I.B. wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
The only issue I really have with Tyrannofexes is they really need a Synapse Creature to stay within 24" to keep them able to fire at full efficiency.

And I haven't quite worked out which Synapse Creature this should be.

You've got about a month to enjoy the mandatory Malanthrope, before it gets a big point increase.

4Chan keeps saying that Neurothropes will be an solo HQ choice for 70pts that provides Synapse. Could be a good option if it's true.

I don't understand why a baby sitter that has to stay within 2ft of you is that bad. Nids have been working with babysitters that had to be 12 and then 8 inches away for like... a decade.

OK, I am wayy behind...can Mawlocs Tunnel? if so that could be Epic, as they get to arrive much closer than a "normal" Deep Striker. Pyrovore? Zoeys? Both? 3D of acid, Smite, Mawloc MW, then CP to double tap the Acid? Good times, good times....

Mr.Pengwinn wrote:

 N.I.B. wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
The only issue I really have with Tyrannofexes is they really need a Synapse Creature to stay within 24" to keep them able to fire at full efficiency.

And I haven't quite worked out which Synapse Creature this should be.

You've got about a month to enjoy the mandatory Malanthrope, before it gets a big point increase.

4Chan keeps saying that Neurothropes will be an solo HQ choice for 70pts that provides Synapse. Could be a good option if it's true.

Yes, that much is confirmed. Good stuff, but nothing OP.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

pinecone77 wrote:
OK, I am wayy behind...can Mawlocs Tunnel? if so that could be Epic, as they get to arrive much closer than a "normal" Deep Striker. Pyrovore? Zoeys?

Mawloc can tunnel, but the models that come out of the tunnel must be at lest 9" away from the enemy, so it's useless in that regard.
On the other hand if used as a tyrannocite the mawlock is good. Compared to a tyrannocite it can take 30 gants, is harder, costs less, hurts more in melee and he can burrow again to inflict some MWs later on.

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

 Zimko wrote:

Something like
Behemoth/Leviathan/Kraken 490
Neurothrope x2
Hormagaunts 3x30

Jormungandr 1269
Broodlord x2
Genestealers 2x20
Devgants x30
Raveners 3x3

Kronos
3x Neurothrope

I like the idea here. My only problem is the logistics of an army with this many bodies - getting 90 hormagants in range of synapse but also in such a way where they can fight, and be useful, would be challenging.

Any decent imperium list is going to have a ton of mortars. And guard lists will have taurox primes and wyverns. Being super depending on T3 bodies with no save is a big concern to me. I wouldn't be concerned with grav shooting, or marine shooting. If you can handle razorbacks, you can handle marines no problem.

On that note, I would go full Jormungandr. I know you lose out on Kronos. And I do agree that smite is going to be nerfed. I heard that it would be 1 mortal wound instead of d3. Although 3 cast limit sounds more likely.

Thinking like:
2x 30 Hormagants
1x 30 Dakkagants
1x 20 Genestealers

As the core of my chaff. I like the idea of Carnifexes, Tyrannofexes, and Hive Tyrants to do some of the heavier lifting. With cover tyranid warriors might be worth it, too. I would still run 1 Trygon.

You could bring Venomthrope into a raveners tunnel and provide -1 to every unit that fails it's charge.

If you want to burn through your powerpoints, have the taxi bring 3 units of Zoanthropes. And then use the 3 commandpoint zoanthrope stratagem to nuke them back to the stone age.

 Niiai wrote:
If you want to burn through your powerpoints, have the taxi bring 3 units of Zoanthropes. And then use the 3 commandpoint zoanthrope stratagem to nuke them back to the stone age.

Don't forget a CP reroll to blast that character at 5+!

How do we all feel about buying “bad” units to fill out brigades? HQ, Troops and HS all have stellar units that are cheap (Neuro/Rippers/Biovore), but the cheap Elite and FA units are pretty meh. For Elite we have Lictors (probably the better choice with their stratagems) and Pyrovores and for FA we have Mucolids if we want to be fairly useless and Gargoyles if we want a unit that can do something. Thoughts?

C4790M wrote:
How do we all feel about buying “bad” units to fill out brigades? HQ, Troops and HS all have stellar units that are cheap (Neuro/Rippers/Biovore), but the cheap Elite and FA units are pretty meh. For Elite we have Lictors (probably the better choice with their stratagems) and Pyrovores and for FA we have Mucolids if we want to be fairly useless and Gargoyles if we want a unit that can do something. Thoughts?

FA you have sky-slashers! Which are actually pretty solid. I think I would be inclined to always plump for the Lictor over the Pyrovore though.