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tag8833 wrote:
I've got an interested event coming up, and am trying to figure out a Codex Tyranids list that will work for it, but I've got a few questions.

Event Restrictions:
- 1650 points
- 1 Battalion only
- No repeated dataslates that aren't troops.

1) If you had to pick 1 hive fleet for a mixed force, which way would you go?

2) I'm limited to 3 HQ's. Malanthrope is obvious. Which other 2 should I pick? Broodlord and Flyrant maybe?

3) 2 shooty units for my backfield. Exocrine is obvious. But then I've get to basically pick 1 between Hive Guard, TFex w/ Rupture Cannon, or Zoenthropes. Maybe some Carnifexen Which one would you pick?

4) 30 Devilgants seem like a great choice for an alphastrike thanks to the shoot twice strategem. Is it worth it, or will I be overkilling stuff?

5) Feels like Genestealers are the best troops, I was leaning towards running 2 max squads with a broodlord. Should I give them Toxin?

6) I like having a fast tarpit unit. IE something that can tie up a shooty unit or two. Is a Flyrant going to generally do that trick, or should I take a Crone or Harpy?

Well you get 3 Carnifex for 1 data slate so i would take 3 of those hands down.

 Xenomancers wrote:

tag8833 wrote:
I've got an interested event coming up, and am trying to figure out a Codex Tyranids list that will work for it, but I've got a few questions.

Event Restrictions:
- 1650 points
- 1 Battalion only
- No repeated dataslates that aren't troops.

1) If you had to pick 1 hive fleet for a mixed force, which way would you go?

2) I'm limited to 3 HQ's. Malanthrope is obvious. Which other 2 should I pick? Broodlord and Flyrant maybe?

3) 2 shooty units for my backfield. Exocrine is obvious. But then I've get to basically pick 1 between Hive Guard, TFex w/ Rupture Cannon, or Zoenthropes. Maybe some Carnifexen Which one would you pick?

4) 30 Devilgants seem like a great choice for an alphastrike thanks to the shoot twice strategem. Is it worth it, or will I be overkilling stuff?

5) Feels like Genestealers are the best troops, I was leaning towards running 2 max squads with a broodlord. Should I give them Toxin?

6) I like having a fast tarpit unit. IE something that can tie up a shooty unit or two. Is a Flyrant going to generally do that trick, or should I take a Crone or Harpy?

Well you get 3 Carnifex for 1 data slate so i would take 3 of those hands down.

Go nuts. Bring 9. 1 slot 3 screamer killers. 1 slot 3 thornbacks. 1 slot 3 fex loaded out to taste. 1 hq ooe. Laugh.

 Xenomancers wrote:

tag8833 wrote:
I've got an interested event coming up, and am trying to figure out a Codex Tyranids list that will work for it, but I've got a few questions.
...

Well you get 3 Carnifex for 1 data slate so i would take 3 of those hands down.

That was definitely something I considered. Carnifexes instead of Genestealers or instead of Devilgants? 1650 isn't that many points.

tag8833 wrote:
I've got an interested event coming up, and am trying to figure out a Codex Tyranids list that will work for it, but I've got a few questions.

Event Restrictions:
- 1650 points
- 1 Battalion only
- No repeated dataslates that aren't troops.

1) If you had to pick 1 hive fleet for a mixed force, which way would you go?

2) I'm limited to 3 HQ's. Malanthrope is obvious. Which other 2 should I pick? Broodlord and Flyrant maybe?

3) 2 shooty units for my backfield. Exocrine is obvious. But then I've get to basically pick 1 between Hive Guard, TFex w/ Rupture Cannon, or Zoenthropes. Maybe some Carnifexen Which one would you pick?

4) 30 Devilgants seem like a great choice for an alphastrike thanks to the shoot twice strategem. Is it worth it, or will I be overkilling stuff?

5) Feels like Genestealers are the best troops, I was leaning towards running 2 max squads with a broodlord. Should I give them Toxin?

6) I like having a fast tarpit unit. IE something that can tie up a shooty unit or two. Is a Flyrant going to generally do that trick, or should I take a Crone or Harpy?

This is what I would bring to that event:

Neurothrope - 70
Malanthrope - 90
Dakka Flyrant - 198

Lictor - 45

20 Stealers - 240
30 Hormagants - 150
30 Devilgants - 240

5 Raveners - 115

Exocrine - 210
6 Hive Guard - 288

You can use the Raveners to bring in both the hormagants and the Devilgants. I had points for Swarmy but since you said you wanted to go shooty, I dropped him. If I really wanted to take some names, I’d drop both the exocrine and the Hive Guard. Kill the screen with the Flyrant and the Devilgants and then Swarmy move in the hormagants to tie up the entire army. You’ll know by then if they are onslaughted or not. With their pile and consolidate, you’ll be able to reliably make it so that the enemy cannot fall back.

Tbh, you probably could make a mono Kronos army. Or a mono Kraken army. I probably wouldn’t consider any other mono builds. Here Jormungdr is important because that’s the only way to start the paper thin Devilgants in reserve, and if they’re not in reserve, they’re not worth taking.

 Lance845 wrote:
Go nuts. Bring 9. 1 slot 3 screamer killers. 1 slot 3 thornbacks. 1 slot 3 fex loaded out to taste. 1 hq ooe. Laugh.

I only have 7, but that is something that might be fun, it's worth considering.

Fex Wall would be pretty funny at 1650 lol. I mean, they’d all be the -1 to hit dakka variety. Toss in a couple Broodlords for psychic and counter assault and you’re pretty much set.

Jormungdr:

3 Broodlords
4 Ripper squads
9 dakka fexen with -1 to hit

That’s 1653 if my math is right, giving all carnifex enhanced senses and -1 to hit. I’m not mad at it.

Edit: if you could borrow some from people you know, it would not be awful. Not at all. Only thing they can target is fexes. You have deep striking obsec. The fact that this is even viable is glorious

 luke1705 wrote:

tag8833 wrote:
I've got an interested event coming up, and am trying to figure out a Codex Tyranids list that will work for it, but I've got a few questions.


This is what I would bring to that event:

Neurothrope - 70
Malanthrope - 90
Dakka Flyrant - 198

Lictor - 45

20 Stealers - 240
30 Hormagants - 150
30 Devilgants - 240

5 Raveners - 115

Exocrine - 210
6 Hive Guard - 288

This is close to what I would bring. I would drop the Raveners and the hiveguard. Make 10 of the devil gants fleshborers for easy wounds. Take all those points and buy

Carnifexes (melee) if so go behemoth or kraken
Dakkafexes (kronos)
or, warriors with Deathspitters, Rendingclaws &/or boneswords. Get more synpase shadow in the warp and take Leviathan for an army wide FnP. Remember thats on wounds, including mortal, and not the damage. So all those D3 mortal wounds, you get 3 FNP saves.

It really depends on your play style and what models you have.

The ease with which you can get a Brigade is absurd.

Start with

3 Neurothropes

3 lictors

6 min squads of rippers

3 mucolid spores

3 biovores

This totals 711 points and gives you a boat load of cp for all of the great stratagems.

Just swap out units from this base as needed, keep in mind the amount of points you have left for mixing in other hive fleets into the army.

 Dynas wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:

tag8833 wrote:
I've got an interested event coming up, and am trying to figure out a Codex Tyranids list that will work for it, but I've got a few questions.

This is what I would bring to that event:

Neurothrope - 70
Malanthrope - 90
Dakka Flyrant - 198

Lictor - 45

20 Stealers - 240
30 Hormagants - 150
30 Devilgants - 240

5 Raveners - 115

Exocrine - 210
6 Hive Guard - 288

This is close to what I would bring. I would drop the Raveners and the hiveguard. Make 10 of the devil gants fleshborers for easy wounds. Take all those points and buy

Carnifexes (melee) if so go behemoth or kraken
Dakkafexes (kronos)
or, warriors with Deathspitters, Rendingclaws &/or boneswords. Get more synpase shadow in the warp and take Leviathan for an army wide FnP. Remember thats on wounds, including mortal, and not the damage. So all those D3 mortal wounds, you get 3 FNP saves.

It really depends on your play style and what models you have.

Kronos Dakkafex seem nice, but in reality your opponent will usually try to either threaten to charge them or run away to get out of their range and deny them the bonus. 18" range isn't awful, but it isn't a long enough range that I would feel comfortable thinking that I would get a lot of use out of the hive fleet adaptation. I'd rather use the cover bonus. Melee is Kraken with certainty. Those extra inches are amazing, especially because 1 of them can double their advance. Way better than 2.5 more inches on the charge on average. Also, falling back and charging cannot be understated in terms of power for a unit like a carnifex. They try to tarpit you and you're just like "nah bro"

Also charging does wonders for a melee fex damage output with both the Living Battering Ram ability and the Tusk biomorph (which any melee fex should have), so you almost always wants to disengage for recharging with Kraken melee fexes.

What sort of carnifexes are turning out good? The thornback only ignores cover with infantery units. And he cannot take the -1 to hit. (He can take BS3- though.) But I doubt he is much better then warriors with a barbed strangler? A barbed strangler is S5, and S5 is often enough, a strangelthorn cannon at S7 seems overkill vs T3, and has no effect vs T4.

Regular carnifexes probably are better with a heavy venom cannon, then warriors with venom cannons. S9 and D3 being good tipping points. (I have previusly been comparing warrior venom cannon with impaler cannon if you have around 18 warriors in your army with a prime leading them.)

The screamer killer does not seems to have a good role? Distraction carnifex? Old one eye support?

The dakka carnifex with 24 shots seems descent. But I think he comes out worse vs devil gaunts for the same points?

Devourer carnifexes seems like being in a bad place. S7 is not as impressive as warrior or ravener S5.

Can somebody who is better at mathammer or strategical latheral thinking call out my bad logic or confirm it? I am painting up 4 carnifexes I have had from 5th edition proxies.

 Niiai wrote:

The screamer killer does not seems to have a good role? Distraction carnifex? Old one eye support?
The dakka carnifex with 24 shots seems descent. But I think he comes out worse vs devil gaunts for the same points?

They are basically the same output. The only real advantage of the devilgaunts is the double fire stratagem (which is a massive advantage if you want some serious alpha strike).

Yes the dakkafex inflicts less wounds per the points than a squad of devourer gants, but he also lives past the first turn you shoot with him. My biggest issue with him is that he may not be shooting on turn 1 at all. Not the end of the world, but I like consistency. Which is why my devilgants are, without exception, jormungdr so that they can deep strike with a friendly unit of Raveners.

Screamer killer is more fluffy than competitive, but he's pretty good vs elite infantry. I just don't see him as having a role once the stone crushers get updated. And even now, I would take them over any melee fex.

I prefer having the -1 to hit because it doesn't link us to a Malanthrope, and the -1 to hit is absolutely necessary.

TLDR: I would probably magnetize the carnifexes for fun games to have the screamer killer loadout (and by probably, I mean I am doing that), but competitively it's 24 devourer shots or bust for me. The prevalence of t3 screening units means that str 6 is a big deal. Jormungdr all the way.

 Lance845 wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
I would be really shocked if MRC stay 0 points for long. I wonder if it's a copy paste error from the index and it gets errataed. It seems like madness to pay like... 15 points for scytal or 0 for rending claws.

Gonna have to get over that. It’s survived multiple FAQs and now the codex print, let alone the initial printing.

I understand that. It just seems real odd. Especially because its the only option available in a codex for a model that doesnt come with the option in the kit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Niiai wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
I would be really shocked if MRC stay 0 points for long. I wonder if it's a copy paste error from the index and it gets errataed. It seems like madness to pay like... 15 points for scytal or 0 for rending claws.

Gonna have to get over that. It’s survived multiple FAQs and now the codex print, let alone the initial printing.

What edition model came with rending claws? Forge world?

As far as i can tell, unless it came with the old metal ones, never.

Fw tyrants only ever had venom cannons scytal and now tldwblw

It use to come on the Tyranid Monsterous Creature Sprues and was sold with the metal Hive Tyrants, metal Carnifex, and old plastic Tyranid Warrior Kit.

 Niiai wrote:
What sort of carnifexes are turning out good? The thornback only ignores cover with infantery units. And he cannot take the -1 to hit. (He can take BS3- though.) But I doubt he is much better then warriors with a barbed strangler? A barbed strangler is S5, and S5 is often enough, a strangelthorn cannon at S7 seems overkill vs T3, and has no effect vs T4.

Regular carnifexes probably are better with a heavy venom cannon, then warriors with venom cannons. S9 and D3 being good tipping points. (I have previusly been comparing warrior venom cannon with impaler cannon if you have around 18 warriors in your army with a prime leading them.)

The screamer killer does not seems to have a good role? Distraction carnifex? Old one eye support?

The dakka carnifex with 24 shots seems descent. But I think he comes out worse vs devil gaunts for the same points?

Devourer carnifexes seems like being in a bad place. S7 is not as impressive as warrior or ravener S5.

Can somebody who is better at mathammer or strategical latheral thinking call out my bad logic or confirm it? I am painting up 4 carnifexes I have had from 5th edition proxies.

With only str.6 carnifexes are poor tank/monster busters in CC which is sad as it means any variations (thornback, screaming killer, regular) are fankly pedantic. Their only competitive use is the dakka fex with enhanced senses and spore scyts.

That's why you take crushing claws if you want melee AT.

Or even better, stone crushers.

So the deathspitter dakkafex is good then? I think the heavy venom cannon looks good,

What about hybrid carnifexes? Can they do anything? Perhpas have the plasma head instead of the BS3+ head.

And how powerfull is the abilaty to ignore cover on enemy infatery that the thornback has? I have not played so much 8th edition, but from what I have seen (and read) many local gming clubs have not updated their terain to 8th edition. Cover saves are rare.

So Maleceptor, Toxicrine, and Haurospex were pretty iffy out of the Index. Do we know if the codex fixed them?

Need to see the codex in context.

I'm still thinking a Mawloc is going to be a good 'distraction Mawloc'.

It dealing wounds to 2+ squads yields 'decent' amount of wounds for it's cost.

Tyran wrote:
That's why you take crushing claws if you want melee AT.

Or even better, stone crushers.

Stone crushers sure but crushing claws are laughable with the -1 to hit. You would need OOE increasing the point cost even further to try to force an effective CC fex.

 buddha wrote:

Tyran wrote:
That's why you take crushing claws if you want melee AT.

Or even better, stone crushers.

Stone crushers sure but crushing claws are laughable with the -1 to hit. You would need OOE increasing the point cost even further to try to force an effective CC fex.

On paper tyrant guards and hive tyrant/flyrant seems like crushing claw wielders.

tag8833 wrote:
So Maleceptor, Toxicrine, and Haurospex were pretty iffy out of the Index. Do we know if the codex fixed them?

The Maleceptor gained an additional power, a 4++ and a slight buff to psychic overload.

Toxicrene gained WS3+ and ap-2 on its toxic lashes.

Haruspex gained a massive point reduction.

They are better, but I'm not sure they are fixed.

tag8833 wrote:
So Maleceptor, Toxicrine, and Haurospex were pretty iffy out of the Index. Do we know if the codex fixed them?

The Haurospex appears to be just under 200 points. Not sure the Maleceptor or Toxicrine are worth it

 buddha wrote:

Tyran wrote:
That's why you take crushing claws if you want melee AT.

Or even better, stone crushers.

Stone crushers sure but crushing claws are laughable with the -1 to hit. You would need OOE increasing the point cost even further to try to force an effective CC fex.

Crushing claws are cheap (the cheapest weapons in a carnifex). Also their damage is greatly increased by Living Battering Ram (and/or OOE). If you are running a hybrid fex, crushing claws + gun is probably the best hybrid loadout, specially if you are using them as OOE's bodyguards.

I mean, with both LBR and OOE you are duplicating the damage output of crushing claws.

 Niiai wrote:
So the deathspitter dakkafex is good then? I think the heavy venom cannon looks good,

What about hybrid carnifexes? Can they do anything? Perhpas have the plasma head instead of the BS3+ head.

And how powerfull is the abilaty to ignore cover on enemy infatery that the thornback has? I have not played so much 8th edition, but from what I have seen (and read) many local gming clubs have not updated their terain to 8th edition. Cover saves are rare.

Deathspitter carnifex - do you meann all deathspitters, or as additional guns with a HVC?

Hybrid... as in melee/ranged hybrid? Cause I dont see how plasma would help there... I could see acid maw being useful though. You trade increased BS for some serious AP, should make a carnifex a decent jack-of-all-trades...

Ignoring cover... not really sure. Ironically, itd be seriously good against other tyranids (Jormungandr specifically), though in other cases, it seems like it would only have niche uses... doesnt help that the thornback doesnt seem to be able to decide wether he wants to be melee or ranged. Could make it an option of the aformentioned hybrid fex though?

From wrote:

tag8833 wrote:
So Maleceptor, Toxicrine, and Haurospex were pretty iffy out of the Index. Do we know if the codex fixed them?

The Haurospex appears to be just under 200 points. Not sure the Maleceptor or Toxicrine are worth it

I liked the Haruspex before the point drop. I can't see the value in the maleceptor or toxicrene at all however.

 Sim-Life wrote:

From wrote:

tag8833 wrote:
So Maleceptor, Toxicrine, and Haurospex were pretty iffy out of the Index. Do we know if the codex fixed them?

The Haurospex appears to be just under 200 points. Not sure the Maleceptor or Toxicrine are worth it

I liked the Haruspex before the point drop. I can't see the value in the maleceptor or toxicrene at all however.

He looks like a fun unit. I have an unbuilt 1 that I am probably going to make exocrine number 2. However I would love for this guy some love - because I'd love to use him and have him terrorizing infantry and just refusing to die. LOL.

The Maleceptor looks like it could be a fun unit to spam MW. 2d3 on a 4+ to cast, plus CC capability... not too shabby. Not really competitive, but could be a fun unit to use on occasion.

The best thing about the toxicrene to me is to use it as a character hunter and regain lost CP. He's more durable then the lictors or genestealers and more capable then the venomthrope.

Carnifex upgrade questions

Am i right in thinking certain upgrades are mutually exclusive.

So head bio morph choose only 1 from +1bs, screamer killer head, tusks,
carapace bio morph choose one from, -1 to hit from shooting, thorn back, upgraded battering ram for stone crusher
4 weapon slots, choose any combination of weapons up to a max of for, cannons taking up 2 slots.
tail, thresher or bone mace

then there are adrenal glands and toxin sacs (which any one can take i think)

what abut bio plasma, does that count as a head bio morph or does it work the same as adrenal glands and toxin sacs

So could i build for example, a carnifex with
+1 bs
bioplasma
-1 to hit from shooting
4 twin linked devourers
thresher tail