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No since bio plasma is one of the head options. You have to decide between plasma and BS. The rest works.

 Lance845 wrote:
The best thing about the toxicrene to me is to use it as a character hunter and regain lost CP. He's more durable then the lictors or genestealers and more capable then the venomthrope.

You can get 14 Genestealers for the same cost. T4 vs T7, but 5++ and single would so immune to multi-damage. No degradation of statline. Alternate deployment methods. WAY higher damage output against all targets.

The only unique strength the Toxicrene has is shooting into combats, which would be nice to abuse with a ton of hormagaunts to lock people down. Besides that it's just a pretty middle of the road MC. Totally usable in normal games, but no real place in competitive 40k.

Toxicrene suffers from a really punishing degradation table, if not he would be strong.


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 Traceoftoxin wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
The best thing about the toxicrene to me is to use it as a character hunter and regain lost CP. He's more durable then the lictors or genestealers and more capable then the venomthrope.

You can get 14 Genestealers for the same cost. T4 vs T7, but 5++ and single would so immune to multi-damage. No degradation of statline. Alternate deployment methods. WAY higher damage output against all targets.

The only unique strength the Toxicrene has is shooting into combats, which would be nice to abuse with a ton of hormagaunts to lock people down. Besides that it's just a pretty middle of the road MC. Totally usable in normal games, but no real place in competitive 40k.

Single wounded infantry degrades by definition with wounds.

Spoletta wrote:
Toxicrene suffers from a really punishing degradation table, if not he would be strong.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
The best thing about the toxicrene to me is to use it as a character hunter and regain lost CP. He's more durable then the lictors or genestealers and more capable then the venomthrope.

You can get 14 Genestealers for the same cost. T4 vs T7, but 5++ and single would so immune to multi-damage. No degradation of statline. Alternate deployment methods. WAY higher damage output against all targets.

The only unique strength the Toxicrene has is shooting into combats, which would be nice to abuse with a ton of hormagaunts to lock people down. Besides that it's just a pretty middle of the road MC. Totally usable in normal games, but no real place in competitive 40k.

Single wounded infantry degrades by definition with wounds.

Yes, they lose attacks. They do not lose WS or S. Rough numbers in my head, even at half strength the Genestealer unit does more damage to any platform than the Toxi does at full.

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
Toxicrene suffers from a really punishing degradation table, if not he would be strong.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
The best thing about the toxicrene to me is to use it as a character hunter and regain lost CP. He's more durable then the lictors or genestealers and more capable then the venomthrope.

You can get 14 Genestealers for the same cost. T4 vs T7, but 5++ and single would so immune to multi-damage. No degradation of statline. Alternate deployment methods. WAY higher damage output against all targets.

The only unique strength the Toxicrene has is shooting into combats, which would be nice to abuse with a ton of hormagaunts to lock people down. Besides that it's just a pretty middle of the road MC. Totally usable in normal games, but no real place in competitive 40k.

Single wounded infantry degrades by definition with wounds.

Yes, they lose attacks. They do not lose WS or S. Rough numbers in my head, even at half strength the Genestealer unit does more damage to any platform than the Toxi does at full.

Hmm, it probably wins against targets like aggressors, but this is just a mathematical discussion, genestealers are obviously better in the damage department.

When/where is anyone fielding aggressors?

I agree the toxicrenes degradation table is balls. But being str 7 ap -2 d3 dmg with a good number of attacks + shooting with the melee weapon + toxic miasma.

I am not saying it's the most competitive thing out there. Simply that it's got some gak going for it as a character hunter which benefits that one stratagem.

I don't own one and don't intend to. But of the toxicrene, hauraspex, and maleceptor, I would probably build a toxicrene to run for funsies over the other 2,

 Cephalobeard wrote:
When/where is anyone fielding aggressors?

Looking at the way the meta is going i think that in 3 or 4 months we will see a lot of them. Especially if the rumored cost nerf to assault cannons and hurricane bolters is true.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
When/where is anyone fielding aggressors?

They are actually a really good unit that is bad against the meta. Againt nid - they will be an abolsute horror if the meta shifts.

Are Toxin Sacs usually worth it on Genestealers?

What are a few good ways to kill Magnus as a Nid player?

p00rstudent wrote:
Carnifex upgrade questions

Am i right in thinking certain upgrades are mutually exclusive.

So head bio morph choose only 1 from +1bs, screamer killer head, tusks,
carapace bio morph choose one from, -1 to hit from shooting, thorn back, upgraded battering ram for stone crusher
4 weapon slots, choose any combination of weapons up to a max of for, cannons taking up 2 slots.
tail, thresher or bone mace

then there are adrenal glands and toxin sacs (which any one can take i think)

what abut bio plasma, does that count as a head bio morph or does it work the same as adrenal glands and toxin sacs

So could i build for example, a carnifex with
+1 bs
bioplasma
-1 to hit from shooting
4 twin linked devourers
thresher tail

That looks correct to me...no Codex in hand, but looks "OK" Unless Bioplasma, and +1 BS are both "heads" But prior sets let you toss Bioplasma on any. So "it depends"

tag8833 wrote:
Are Toxin Sacs usually worth it on Genestealers?

What are a few good ways to kill Magnus as a Nid player?

Toxin sacs aren't worth it on a genestealer - to easy to kill.

Best way to kill magnus is a combined approach - ether completely ignore him and kill everything else or hit him with everything.
Vs magnus quantity is better than quality. Mass str 4 is our best way to bring him down. That's dakka gaunts shooting Twice. If you could assault him turn 1 with the swarmlord first turn of the game though - I would go for it every time.

tag8833 wrote:
Are Toxin Sacs usually worth it on Genestealers?

What are a few good ways to kill Magnus as a Nid player?

Be Kronos. Shoot him with a Balethorn Cannon, and lots o'dice (tm). Currently I plan on a Kronos Supreme command of three Winged Tyrants, that plus the "Darken shadow" strat should give an even chance.

Is anyone sure how to "handle" 1000 sons marines? They seem like a hard target as well.

Thousand sons are easy. Way too few bodies. We have more bodies than they can fire bullets. And we have enough mortal wounds that they are going to be very sad

pinecone77 wrote:

tag8833 wrote:
Are Toxin Sacs usually worth it on Genestealers?

What are a few good ways to kill Magnus as a Nid player?

Be Kronos. Shoot him with a Balethorn Cannon, and lots o'dice (tm). Currently I plan on a Kronos Supreme command of three Winged Tyrants, that plus the "Darken shadow" strat should give an even chance.

Is anyone sure how to "handle" 1000 sons marines? They seem like a hard target as well.

Gotta hit the 1000 sons in close quarters - to hard to dig out of cover.

I had some spare time, and with the reliance of melee for our army. I made some handy Mathhammer charge tables. Including Rerolls, command points, adrenal glands, etc...

Hive Mind, go Devourer...

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/744263.page#9691928

Kronos warlord with a nice screen of gants should make short work of sorcerers/rubrics and deepest shadows strategem will give Magnus/Ahriman a real hard time.

Hi.

Saw over the carnifexes. Is tge screamer killer a bit exspensive? It starts out 90. Now that includes the plasmic scream, range 18, ap 4, yay. But not the scything tallons. So that is a total of 105. 115 with the -1 to hi sporecystt. And 120 for all that and edrenal glands. Is that a bit exspendive?

Regular carnifex with , 4x tresher scythe, Spore cysts, and adrenal glands clock in at 97 points. That is a whopping 23 points cheaper.

If you want to be attacking I think a bone mace at 2 points for S8 is good. It is an extra attack.

But maybi the Monstruc acid maw is good. Only S user, but it has AP -5 and D3 damage. 10 points. Although this might be better vs 2+ troops then T7 S3+. Scything tallons have a flat 3 damage, as opposed to the acid maws averadge 2.

Spoletta wrote:

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
Toxicrene suffers from a really punishing degradation table, if not he would be strong.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
The best thing about the toxicrene to me is to use it as a character hunter and regain lost CP. He's more durable then the lictors or genestealers and more capable then the venomthrope.

You can get 14 Genestealers for the same cost. T4 vs T7, but 5++ and single would so immune to multi-damage. No degradation of statline. Alternate deployment methods. WAY higher damage output against all targets.

The only unique strength the Toxicrene has is shooting into combats, which would be nice to abuse with a ton of hormagaunts to lock people down. Besides that it's just a pretty middle of the road MC. Totally usable in normal games, but no real place in competitive 40k.

Single wounded infantry degrades by definition with wounds.

Yes, they lose attacks. They do not lose WS or S. Rough numbers in my head, even at half strength the Genestealer unit does more damage to any platform than the Toxi does at full.

Hmm, it probably wins against targets like aggressors, but this is just a mathematical discussion, genestealers are obviously better in the damage department.

Toxicrenes average 3.36 damage against T5 3+, Genestealers average .5 per stealer without considering the A4 buff. So, 7 stealers do more damage than a toxicrene. (Edit, forgot rerolls for toxi to wound)

Stealers absolutely put every other unit in our codex to shame, when it comes to damage output. The few units that are better against niche targets are generally only slightly better, while the GS are great against everything.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dynas wrote:
I had some spare time, and with the reliance of melee for our army. I made some handy Mathhammer charge tables. Including Rerolls, command points, adrenal glands, etc...

Hive Mind, go Devourer...

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/744263.page#9691928

Good numbers for people to know and understand. Thanks.

 Niiai wrote:
Hi.

Saw over the carnifexes. Is tge screamer killer a bit exspensive? It starts out 90. Now that includes the plasmic scream, range 18, ap 4, yay. But not the scything tallons. So that is a total of 105. 115 with the -1 to hi sporecystt. And 120 for all that and edrenal glands. Is that a bit exspendive?

Regular carnifex with , 4x tresher scythe, Spore cysts, and adrenal glands clock in at 97 points. That is a whopping 23 points cheaper.

If you want to be attacking I think a bone mace at 2 points for S8 is good. It is an extra attack.

But maybi the Monstruc acid maw is good. Only S user, but it has AP -5 and D3 damage. 10 points. Although this might be better vs 2+ troops then T7 S3+. Scything tallons have a flat 3 damage, as opposed to the acid maws averadge 2.

I thought the new write ups included the base equipment...? I've been thinking 90+10 for spore cloud, Adrenals depending, if I run Behemoth, likely won't need them....

Isn't it funny how Enhanced edition of the codex lacks appendix with models' point cost?


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I love the wording of the pheramone trail stratagem as it is works for genecult and newborn tervigon's termagaunts.
Good thing i have several lictors from 7ed.

Finally got my hand on a codex!

Did anyone notice that the Sporocyst now releases mines every turn in addition to the spore launcher?

Spore heavy army definetly got a buff.
I am heavily considering it.

What is weapon profile for spore node? Enhanced edition only lists special rule.

Why they made Sporocyst to have degradable A?

Spoletta wrote:
Did anyone notice that the Sporocyst now releases mines every turn in addition to the spore launcher?

Not until you mentioned it, very nice! Taking a fortification network of Kronos Sporocysts might be interesting since they can flood the board with mines each turn while automatically benefiting from its fleet adaptation and providing the Deepest Shadow stratagem for use in the army.

Fan67 wrote:What is weapon profile for spore node? Enhanced edition only lists special rule.

Heavy 1, 9'' range. The special rule handles all of the damage and how many "hits" are caused.

Fan67 wrote:
Why they made Sporocyst to have degradable A?

It's just a copy-paste from its mobile cousin (makes sense since they are technically the same base organism with differing payloads).

Yeah I'm thinking tusks, access to tail biomorphs and a cheaper cost mean it makes little sense to make a dual scythe Carnifex a screamer killer for any reason other than the fluff of it, wanting a plasma spitter because it's a classic loadout.

How much does the sporocyte cost now.... With the new rules for the venom cannon it could be deadly.

pinecone77 wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
Hi.

Saw over the carnifexes. Is tge screamer killer a bit exspensive? It starts out 90. Now that includes the plasmic scream, range 18, ap 4, yay. But not the scything tallons. So that is a total of 105. 115 with the -1 to hi sporecystt. And 120 for all that and edrenal glands. Is that a bit exspendive?

Regular carnifex with , 4x tresher scythe, Spore cysts, and adrenal glands clock in at 97 points. That is a whopping 23 points cheaper.

If you want to be attacking I think a bone mace at 2 points for S8 is good. It is an extra attack.

But maybi the Monstruc acid maw is good. Only S user, but it has AP -5 and D3 damage. 10 points. Although this might be better vs 2+ troops then T7 S3+. Scything tallons have a flat 3 damage, as opposed to the acid maws averadge 2.

I thought the new write ups included the base equipment...? I've been thinking 90+10 for spore cloud, Adrenals depending, if I run Behemoth, likely won't need them....

What are you basing this on? I don’t see anything that indicates that change

Ive always enjoyed the idea of the sporecyst. This might tip it into worth taking.

Neurothropes can only deny one, not two. Contradicts what was in the video review I watched. Unless the epub version is inconsistent with the published?


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They also forgot to give the biovore spore mine launcher ignores los again

Building carnifexes has become a lot more interesting.
For dakkafexes I was at first looking at the enhanced senses head. +1 BS being pretty awesome on a shooting unit after all.
But then I saw Monstrous Acid Maw. It's a reasonably decent close combat weapon that doesn't take up an arm slot. So you can have your 24 shot dakkafex, and also have it be competent in close combat.

My thinking is that since a dakkafex has only 18" range, it's quite likely that an enemy will charge it to try and shut it down. So the acid maw might be the best way to go.
If I was taking a long ranged carnifex with heavy venom cannon, then enhanced senses makes more sense.