Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Red__Thirst wrote:
Ugh.. I really want to be able to put a Death Mask on my Captain again. Seriously. :(

I was hoping this would be added back in once the Codex hits. Grrr...

C'est la vie. Hopefully it's in there as an option.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Looks like it's you who will have to take it easy now, I'm afraid...

Maybe they'll FAQ it?

 Mmmpi wrote:
Maybe they'll FAQ it?

I'd say almost a 0% chance of that since they've never had captains be able to take death masks. They couldn't even notice the crippling problems with the Baal predator when they copy/pasted the entry, which was a fairly low hanging fruit.

 Kirasu wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:
Maybe they'll FAQ it?

I'd say almost a 0% chance of that since they've never had captains be able to take death masks. They couldn't even notice the crippling problems with the Baal predator when they copy/pasted the entry, which was a fairly low hanging fruit.

So I just noticed Death Company are missing the Death Company Keyword in the Codex. Same thing happened in the Index. Definitely a copy and paste job. Don't they have editors?

 theharrower wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:
Maybe they'll FAQ it?

I'd say almost a 0% chance of that since they've never had captains be able to take death masks. They couldn't even notice the crippling problems with the Baal predator when they copy/pasted the entry, which was a fairly low hanging fruit.

So I just noticed Death Company are missing the Death Company Keyword in the Codex. Same thing happened in the Index. Definitely a copy and paste job. Don't they have editors?

Well, in the index, there isn't much reason to give them a 'death company keyword'. The got Black Rage because it was in their ability list, and nothing interacted with DC as a keyword.
Though, actually looking at the Index, they _do_ have Death Company as a keyword.

So if they're missing it, it isn't a 'copy and paste job.'

Voss wrote:

 theharrower wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:
Maybe they'll FAQ it?

I'd say almost a 0% chance of that since they've never had captains be able to take death masks. They couldn't even notice the crippling problems with the Baal predator when they copy/pasted the entry, which was a fairly low hanging fruit.

So I just noticed Death Company are missing the Death Company Keyword in the Codex. Same thing happened in the Index. Definitely a copy and paste job. Don't they have editors?

Well, in the index, there isn't much reason to give them a 'death company keyword'. The got Black Rage because it was in their ability list, and nothing interacted with DC as a keyword.
Though, actually looking at the Index, they _do_ have Death Company as a keyword.

So if they're missing it, it isn't a 'copy and paste job.'

Without the Death Company keyword, they can't benefit from the Forlorn Fury Strategem.

Voss wrote:

 theharrower wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:
Maybe they'll FAQ it?

I'd say almost a 0% chance of that since they've never had captains be able to take death masks. They couldn't even notice the crippling problems with the Baal predator when they copy/pasted the entry, which was a fairly low hanging fruit.

So I just noticed Death Company are missing the Death Company Keyword in the Codex. Same thing happened in the Index. Definitely a copy and paste job. Don't they have editors?

Well, in the index, there isn't much reason to give them a 'death company keyword'. The got Black Rage because it was in their ability list, and nothing interacted with DC as a keyword.
Though, actually looking at the Index, they _do_ have Death Company as a keyword.

So if they're missing it, it isn't a 'copy and paste job.'

Not talking about Faction Keywords. They just have the Infantry keyword. Here's my Index. Codex is the same. The Death Company Dreadnought has the Death Company keyword. Why wouldn't Death Company have their own keyword like every other unit does?






Automatically Appended Next Post:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Without the Death Company keyword, they can't benefit from the Forlorn Fury Strategem.

Yep. It says you need the Death Company and Infantry keywords.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Voss wrote:
So if they're missing it, it isn't a 'copy and paste job.'

Without the Death Company keyword, they can't benefit from the Forlorn Fury Strategem.

But they have it.

Is it an oversight that it isn't also on the next line? Yeah, I guess it is.
But it doesn't really matter- they're Death Company with the Death Company keyword and the Infantry Keyword so they can use the stratagem- nothing else (unless something no one has mentioned is hiding somewhere) uses the keyword in any way at all.
Nothing in the stratagems indicates it's differentiating between 'keyword' and 'faction keyword.' Or possibly unit name, for that matter.

In fact, keyword <unit name> seems to be a general irrelevance. <Infantry> matters because rules reference it. Same with <Jump Pack> and <Fly>. But unit name?

Though it also worth pointing out that the Terminator Ancient (on the facing page in the Index) and the Sanguinary Guard Ancient lack their 'unit names' on their data slates as well. They both have the Ancient keyword and Terminator/SG keywords respectively, but from a data/technical perspective, that isn't the same thing.

Faction Keywords and Keywords are identical past the list-building stage. Death Company have the <Death Company> keyword in the same manner that appropriately marked Obliterators are considered <Tzeentch> <Daemons> and can benefit from the Changeling aura and such.

theharrower wrote:

 Red__Thirst wrote:
Ugh.. I really want to be able to put a Death Mask on my Captain again. Seriously. :(

I was hoping this would be added back in once the Codex hits. Grrr...

C'est la vie. Hopefully it's in there as an option.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Sorry bud.

Ugh. I mean, I'm not angry or butthurt over it, but it is annoying all the same.

Ashiraya wrote:

Looks like it's you who will have to take it easy now, I'm afraid...

I always do, hence my use of the words to close my posts. This is a hobby and something I enjoy. It's not serious. It's literal army men and playing pretend. What might you be inferring, may I ask?

Kirasu wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:
Maybe they'll FAQ it?

I'd say almost a 0% chance of that since they've never had captains be able to take death masks. They couldn't even notice the crippling problems with the Baal predator when they copy/pasted the entry, which was a fairly low hanging fruit.

In fact, that is incorrect. Characters and Captains/others could indeed take Death Masks back in ye olden days of 3rd edition, and you had the option to use a Relic version of a Death Mask in the 7th edition codex as well. It was a cool little additional thing you could give your leader to make them unique, and I really enjoyed having it as an option back in the day, and in 7th as well; specifically the Crown Angelic relic. I typically ran it on my Captain and really enjoyed using it.

Like I said, it's not going to make me not enjoy the codex or not use it. I love Blood Angels, and their lore/fluff and play style. I'll keep playing them and enjoying them. It's just a very slight personal disappointment in not having the option available to the one Character I really enjoyed fielding with a Death Mask option in the past.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

In fact, that is incorrect. Characters and Captains/others could indeed take Death Masks back in ye olden days of 3rd edition, and you had the option to use a Relic version of a Death Mask in the 7th edition codex as well. It was a cool little additional thing you could give your leader to make them unique, and I really enjoyed having it as an option back in the day, and in 7th as well; specifically the Crown Angelic relic. I typically ran it on my Captain and really enjoyed using it.

Like I said, it's not going to make me not enjoy the codex or not use it. I love Blood Angels, and their lore/fluff and play style. I'll keep playing them and enjoying them. It's just a very slight personal disappointment in not having the option available to the one Character I really enjoyed fielding with a Death Mask option in the past.

Sure, there was a death mask in the ancient 3rd edition book. I feel like to miss such an item you would have had to skip every edition in the last 11 years since its never been seen on any character again (beyond Dante). Morale didn't matter all for most editions so that's probably why I left it out of my memory.

If you want to run a character just run the sanguinary ancient. It has a death mask and is a character with basically same stats as a Captain.

 Kirasu wrote:

In fact, that is incorrect. Characters and Captains/others could indeed take Death Masks back in ye olden days of 3rd edition, and you had the option to use a Relic version of a Death Mask in the 7th edition codex as well. It was a cool little additional thing you could give your leader to make them unique, and I really enjoyed having it as an option back in the day, and in 7th as well; specifically the Crown Angelic relic. I typically ran it on my Captain and really enjoyed using it.

Like I said, it's not going to make me not enjoy the codex or not use it. I love Blood Angels, and their lore/fluff and play style. I'll keep playing them and enjoying them. It's just a very slight personal disappointment in not having the option available to the one Character I really enjoyed fielding with a Death Mask option in the past.

Sure, there was a death mask in the ancient 3rd edition book. I feel like to miss such an item you would have had to skip every edition in the last 11 years since its never been seen on any character again (beyond Dante). Morale didn't matter all for most editions so that's probably why I left it out of my memory.

If you want to run a character just run the sanguinary ancient. It has a death mask and is a character with basically same stats as a Captain.

Oh I intend on running an ancient along side some Sanguinary Guard for sure! And he'll have a Death Mask along with the Guard as well (though I'm still unsure if the -1 leadership stacks or not if both the Ancient and the Guard are both within 3" of a target?).

I'll also still run my Captain as I always have. He's a fun character and one I enjoy putting on the tabletop for sure. I love the character options I have at my disposal, and am excited to get my hands on the new book this weekend and start using it.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Hehe, just realized thematically, when you give your HQ of choice the Black Rage, you are signing his death warrant by the end of the battle grimdark+1

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Hehe, just realized thematically, when you give your HQ of choice the Black Rage, you are signing his death warrant by the end of the battle grimdark+1

All for tha greatur goood, sergeant Angle.



Are we not able to give Sanguinary Priests jump packs at all? Sorry been in and out of this thread. I was planning on running one with some SG but is this possible?

of course, you can always use the index for units that aren't in the codex. GW has specified this very clearly.

If our priests can't take JP's, that is very strange although, imo, they are much less important with the addition of the red thirst, as it acts as a even better priest buff.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Hehe, just realized thematically, when you give your HQ of choice the Black Rage, you are signing his death warrant by the end of the battle grimdark+1

Or bound in chains waiting for next battle to be unleashed.

bobafett012 wrote:
of course, you can always use the index for units that aren't in the codex. GW has specified this very clearly.

If our priests can't take JP's, that is very strange although, imo, they are much less important with the addition of the red thirst, as it acts as a even better priest buff.

Oh so you can use the Index alongside the codex's? Thanks!

is there a summary somewhere of any of the official stuff that will be in the codex or is everyone still wish listing?

 ironicsilence wrote:
is there a summary somewhere of any of the official stuff that will be in the codex or is everyone still wish listing?

the entire codex has been spoiled a couple days back. All the you tubers that have the codex have extensively went over the book.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukXWyZ_9zwE&t=4s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYX2Za4AshA&t=3949s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWyLFTbr494


plus most of the websites have this stuff summarized in various places.

Can't wait to get the book in my hands and create a list, but I gotta say...

My two main armies have always been Tyranids and Blood Angels. Each and every Tyranid list I make feels fun, fluffy, and competitive. Each and every Blood Angel list I make feels undermanned and incapable of winning the game...almost as if I need another 300pts or so to even hold a candle to what I've been building with my bugs.

Maybe it'll be better in practice.

BA and DA badly need updated character models to replace the old two dimensional ones. Also, 6+ FnP for death company sucks. As someone already said, that our trick before anyone else had it. Should at least be 5+

Did the Blood Angels regular captains retain their artificer armor to distinguish them from vanilla chapter versions?

No they did not.

unmercifulconker wrote:

bobafett012 wrote:
of course, you can always use the index for units that aren't in the codex. GW has specified this very clearly.

If our priests can't take JP's, that is very strange although, imo, they are much less important with the addition of the red thirst, as it acts as a even better priest buff.

Oh so you can use the Index alongside the codex's? Thanks!

For how long, though, remains to be seen. I don't expect the index to be valid indefinitely, which is . JP Priests not making it into the codex is an even bigger pile of

Crimson Devil wrote:No they did not.

Ugh. Arbitrary, eminently kit-bashable wargear restrictions are becoming real old real fast.

 sockwithaticket wrote:
Ugh. Arbitrary, eminently kit-bashable wargear restrictions are becoming real old real fast.

Not arbitary. Do they have specific kit? Yes? In codex. No? Nope. Not giving new chapter house wannabe chance of selling kit they don't have that's in codex.

tneva82 wrote:

 sockwithaticket wrote:
Ugh. Arbitrary, eminently kit-bashable wargear restrictions are becoming real old real fast.

Not arbitary. Do they have specific kit? Yes? In codex. No? Nope. Not giving new chapter house wannabe chance of selling kit they don't have that's in codex.

It is completely and utterly arbitrary. Artificer armour Captain?

Sanguinary Guard/BA upgrade sprue torso and fancy SG or BA tactical legs as a starting point. Add bits and pieces from other GW kits to taste. No need to go 3rd party, it;s not inhibiting sales of GW product.

Jump Pack Sanguinary Priest? Use any jump pack from GW and stick it on the priest model or kitbash one from the various BA kits + upgrade sprue (for the Chalice), like people did for ages before the new plastic clampack Priest (and continued to do thereafter because clones of character models aren't for everyone, neither are robed Blood Angels).

There are a ton of other examples where they've allowed stuff that can only be kit bashed or requires a minor conversion and where the inverse is true, but I'm supposed to be working, so can't really go into it in detail right now.

 sockwithaticket wrote:
It is completely and utterly arbitrary. Artificer armour Captain?

Sanguinary Guard/BA upgrade sprue torso and fancy SG or BA tactical legs as a starting point. Add bits and pieces from other GW kits to taste. No need to go 3rd party, it;s not inhibiting sales of GW product.

Jump Pack Sanguinary Priest? Use any jump pack from GW and stick it on the priest model or kitbash one from the various BA kits + upgrade sprue (for the Chalice), like people did for ages before the new plastic clampack Priest (and continued to do thereafter because clones of character models aren't for everyone, neither are robed Blood Angels).

There are a ton of other examples where they've allowed stuff that can only be kit bashed or requires a minor conversion and where the inverse is true, but I'm supposed to be working, so can't really go into it in detail right now.

Is there specific kit for artificer armour captain?

GW only puts in codex entries with specific kit on sale. Not something you can kitbash. If they would support kitbash pretty much none of the entries deleted would have been deleted.

I see lots of word "kitbash" in your post. Precisely what GW wants to move away from. If it's not on sale in specific kit without kitbashing off the codex you go. Only notable exception is grand master on dreadknight.

tneva82 wrote:

 sockwithaticket wrote:
It is completely and utterly arbitrary. Artificer armour Captain?

Sanguinary Guard/BA upgrade sprue torso and fancy SG or BA tactical legs as a starting point. Add bits and pieces from other GW kits to taste. No need to go 3rd party, it;s not inhibiting sales of GW product.

Jump Pack Sanguinary Priest? Use any jump pack from GW and stick it on the priest model or kitbash one from the various BA kits + upgrade sprue (for the Chalice), like people did for ages before the new plastic clampack Priest (and continued to do thereafter because clones of character models aren't for everyone, neither are robed Blood Angels).

There are a ton of other examples where they've allowed stuff that can only be kit bashed or requires a minor conversion and where the inverse is true, but I'm supposed to be working, so can't really go into it in detail right now.

Is there specific kit for artificer armour captain?

GW only puts in codex entries with specific kit on sale. Not something you can kitbash. If they would support kitbash pretty much none of the entries deleted would have been deleted.

I see lots of word "kitbash" in your post. Precisely what GW wants to move away from. If it's not on sale in specific kit without kitbashing off the codex you go. Only notable exception is grand master on dreadknight.

Off the top of my head, a few other things you have to kitbash or go to Forgeworld for:
Assault Cannon Razorback
Cataphract Armoured Terminator Captain with anything other than Combi-Melta and Chainfist.
Any Librarian with a sword (can only buy plastic with staff or resin with axe from GW now)
Captain with jump pack and anything other than an axe (can still buy the failcast Lord Executioner)


Again, that's just off the top of my head.

What is the Chalice on the upgrade sprue for other than to kitbash a Priest? In terms of wargear it's the only model type it would fit. It's a random thing for any other type of marine to be holding in a decorative/non-wargear capacity.

warboss wrote:Did the Blood Angels regular captains retain their artificer armor to distinguish them from vanilla chapter versions

Crimson Devil wrote:No they did not.

That's sucks. It's not surprising given the other changes with this edition but it still sucks. I thought that was a nice rules tie in with the fluff of Blood Angels frequently personally embellishing their equipment and taking pride in its craftsmanship.