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 admironheart wrote:
As an elder player I see that most of my psychic powers cannot be cast when in range ....like at all. Not even a chance to roll. There is not plus or minus or making the elder reroll or anything.....It just nerfs all the powers of 7 or better.

That is just wow. What other element in the game in any faction has a counter that just eliminates it completely?

I'm not talking about 'almost' no chance to work or really is all but useless....but actually makes it completely eliminated?

I doubt anything in the game...so no I'm not happy about that.

Ork shooting is completely eliminated by Alaitoc Eldars.

 Galas wrote:

 admironheart wrote:
As an elder player I see that most of my psychic powers cannot be cast when in range ....like at all. Not even a chance to roll. There is not plus or minus or making the elder reroll or anything.....It just nerfs all the powers of 7 or better.

That is just wow. What other element in the game in any faction has a counter that just eliminates it completely?

I'm not talking about 'almost' no chance to work or really is all but useless....but actually makes it completely eliminated?

I doubt anything in the game...so no I'm not happy about that.

Ork shooting is completely eliminated by Alaitoc Eldars.

Ork Shooting is eliminated by a lot of armies right now. They're stuck with an incomplete crap Index that only really allows one build to function. Craftworlds have a codex, the long term solution, which comes with it a higher expectation for the balance and sustainability of the game (and for what it's worth, it's a mostly reasonable book in spite of its issues. It's just facing some serious problems right now between Nids walking all over it for free and Ynnari being stupidly good).

I think maybe Kronos anti-psychics habilities are too good, but I don't think having a anty-psychic Tyranid army is that bad.

It enforces you to try to make more TAC lists, instead of relying on a one trick-pony (If I cast this psychic power this units destroy everything, if not, then I lose). As others have said, is a "meta" change hability.

In a Card Game a Kronos Army would be a "Tech Deck", something you bring when something is very dominathing on the meta.
We have that in the form of units like Sisters of Silence. Everyone and his mother has psychic spam in their armeis? Use SoS's.

This obviously punish psychic-heavy armies. But thats his purpose. They are lacking in fire power and meele bonuses for being Kronos. You are saying like they keep all the other Tyranid bonuses and then on top they gain anty-psychic stuff for free, but that is not the case.
Yeah, mixing Tyranid Hive Fleets they can have a Kronos anti-psychic detachment, but that isn't different that having 2-3 units of SoS on Null-Maiden rhinos in your army. Shoot those things and kill them if they are hurting you strategy.

The more important is the psychic phase in your army, the more are they gonna hurt you. But thats come back to the first thing I said: This encourages more TAC lists. A full Kronos army is gonna be screwed if it goes agaisn't a non-Psychic heavy (Or not psychic powers at all like Necrons or Tau) army, just like a psychic heavy army is gonna be hurt a lot agaisn't a SoS or a Kronos army.

Summarizing: Maybe Kronos bonuses are too good, but I don't think the phylosopy behind them is bad per se.

The problem is that you don't need to run a Kronos army. You only need to run a small Kronos detachment for the full effect. ~250 points for full board coverage, and then you can choose to elect the Kronos flyrant as your warlord IFF you go against a psyker-heavy force. Not to mention that Kronos is the best detachment for gun beasts anyway, so it's not a huge opportunity cost either.

At competitive levels assuming a 2000 point meta, I see this being the face of TAC Tyranids. They have the variability now to do a million and one things (which is good), but throwing in something like this (and being a flyrant, it's a swiss-army-knife as it is) is a no brainer (which is bad).

The stratagem can only be used once per phase. You have to draw it out just like old dispels. You will mostly be dealing with shadows in the warp and d3 mortal wounds if you fail.

 SideshowLucifer wrote:
The stratagem can only be used once per phase. You have to draw it out just like old dispels. You will mostly be dealing with shadows in the warp and d3 mortal wounds if you fail.

Which means that when you do try to draw it out, you suffer a 66% chance of having one of your Warlocks explode. So now we give them a body count to go with it. Good.

 Fafnir wrote:

 SideshowLucifer wrote:
The stratagem can only be used once per phase. You have to draw it out just like old dispels. You will mostly be dealing with shadows in the warp and d3 mortal wounds if you fail.

Which means that when you do try to draw it out, you suffer a 66% chance of having one of your Warlocks explode. So now we give them a body count to go with it. Good.

Lets be honest here. Warlocks suck, and not because Kronos. I don't know the numbers of that stratagem with the Spiritseer but I'm pretty sure they will be much more in Eldar favour.

 Fafnir wrote:

 SideshowLucifer wrote:
The stratagem can only be used once per phase. You have to draw it out just like old dispels. You will mostly be dealing with shadows in the warp and d3 mortal wounds if you fail.

Which means that when you do try to draw it out, you suffer a 66% chance of having one of your Warlocks explode. So now we give them a body count to go with it. Good.

Oh no! You lost a 35pt model who is apparently your ONLY psyker and absolutly critical to your game plan and there was absolutly no way to work around or avoid this outcome! I totally agree. Nids are OP.

Will the new tyranid codex require people to paint their variant armies in 'exactly' the right colour-schemes for people to play them?

Much like every other army, nope. Especially since splinter fleets don't have paint schemes. Now if someone were to use more than one fleet in an army, I'd hope they would look different since synapse is per fleet.

 Sim-Life wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:

 SideshowLucifer wrote:
The stratagem can only be used once per phase. You have to draw it out just like old dispels. You will mostly be dealing with shadows in the warp and d3 mortal wounds if you fail.

Which means that when you do try to draw it out, you suffer a 66% chance of having one of your Warlocks explode. So now we give them a body count to go with it. Good.

Oh no! You lost a 35pt model who is apparently your ONLY psyker and absolutly critical to your game plan and there was absolutly no way to work around or avoid this outcome! I totally agree. Nids are OP.

Listen, as an eldar player this comment..... Made me actually laugh out loud.

I agree, and I look forward to taking on a Kronos army with my Eldar. Honestly I am not worried about it, I would rather have my warlocks pop than deal with 3+ armor save genestealers and 2+ armor save carnifexes.

Azuza001 wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:

 SideshowLucifer wrote:
The stratagem can only be used once per phase. You have to draw it out just like old dispels. You will mostly be dealing with shadows in the warp and d3 mortal wounds if you fail.

Which means that when you do try to draw it out, you suffer a 66% chance of having one of your Warlocks explode. So now we give them a body count to go with it. Good.

Oh no! You lost a 35pt model who is apparently your ONLY psyker and absolutly critical to your game plan and there was absolutly no way to work around or avoid this outcome! I totally agree. Nids are OP.

Listen, as an eldar player this comment..... Made me actually laugh out loud.

I agree, and I look forward to taking on a Kronos army with my Eldar. Honestly I am not worried about it, I would rather have my warlocks pop than deal with 3+ armor save genestealers and 2+ armor save carnifexes.

In fact, the very fear might lead to less smite spam armies. I'm down like a clown for that.

Sure, you can limit the psychic phase of an army for 1 turn by giving up 200 points and Slay the Warlord. Against an Eldar and maybe Magnus i can see this being a worthy investment, but against everything else?

No, i don't think that a Kronos detachment will be as common as you think.

I'm kinda worried nids might be too good overall. Whereas before their melee was excellent and their shooting was subpar, now their shooting is excellent too. Dakkafex has double the firepower of a hellhound for the same cost. It's basically a punisher Russ that doesn't suck in melee haha.

Powerful shooting is fine and all, but then to also have game -ending superfast melee like genestealers? I dunno. I guess we'll see how it plays out.

 Kanluwen wrote:
And there it is ladies and gentlemen. The infamous Schrodinger's Commissar. Somehow able to be both hidden out of LOS but remain within 6" of the unit that he's buffing.

Heard of term congo lines before? Very popular in AOS and works fine in 40k as well seeing rules are essentially same. Works GREAT once you have troops where you want them to stay as you can remove casualties where-ever you wish so you can remove models from the congo line leaving conveniently just the guy near commisar. Sure you are out of coherency but no worries once you are in position you want to be. Conscript's aren't the unit you generally head to enemy DZ anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Torga_DW wrote:
Will the new tyranid codex require people to paint their variant armies in 'exactly' the right colour-schemes for people to play them?

Does anything? Seeing you can see ultramarine painted models as space wolves or white scars. Or chaos army using space wolf rules...

tneva82 wrote:
Does anything? Seeing you can see ultramarine painted models as space wolves or white scars. Or chaos army using space wolf rules...

"My catachans are mordians"
You can also use beer cans as dreads. Doesn't make it good. Everyone has a breaking point.

ThePorcupine wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Does anything? Seeing you can see ultramarine painted models as space wolves or white scars. Or chaos army using space wolf rules...

"My catachans are mordians"
You can also use beer cans as dreads. Doesn't make it good. Everyone has a breaking point.

And what is? "My catachans are mordians" isn't going to cause a blip on radar.

ThePorcupine wrote:
I'm kinda worried nids might be too good overall. Whereas before their melee was excellent and their shooting was subpar, now their shooting is excellent too. Dakkafex has double the firepower of a hellhound for the same cost. It's basically a punisher Russ that doesn't suck in melee haha.

I don't really think a dakkafex is all that in melee.
To take those guns you're giving up its close combat weapons. So it's just working with the 3 S6 WS4+ attacks on its statline, with AP- and 1 damage. That hardly sounds like a melee threat to me.

No it's not all that, I'd go so far as to say it's not great, but its a hell of a lot better than any vehicle. Doesn't it dish out mortal wounds when it charges? And doesn't its WS increase when it charges too? Or is that a separate upgrade.

This Saturday a guy at our store tested out the spoilered Kronos rules against a DG army. It was glorious, the Tyranid player ended up losing since he was trying out a few spoilered Codex rules with Index prices, but from everything I have seen I am really looking forward to facing the bugs.

And although the Kronos rules do seem to be some pretty good anti-Psyker tech... All I have to say is thank goodness. My local meta has begun to spam the everliving heck out of Smite (and why wouldn't you until now), but the fear of running into one of the two Tyranid players (that will most likely be playing Kronos) have made people start to think about making their armies not be one trick Smite ponies anymore.

Arson Fire wrote:

ThePorcupine wrote:
I'm kinda worried nids might be too good overall. Whereas before their melee was excellent and their shooting was subpar, now their shooting is excellent too. Dakkafex has double the firepower of a hellhound for the same cost. It's basically a punisher Russ that doesn't suck in melee haha.

I don't really think a dakkafex is all that in melee.
To take those guns you're giving up its close combat weapons. So it's just working with the 3 S6 WS4+ attacks on its statline, with AP- and 1 damage. That hardly sounds like a melee threat to me.

I would say that a dakkafex is a punisher Russ that sucks MORE in melee. It's not that pitiful 3 attacks (3 rounds of fighting to kill one marine) that are going to make the difference, but T8 12W against T7 8W will. The dakkafex holds out well in ranged fights thanks to the -1 to hit, but in melee it's an easy target. Since he has range 18" this actually matters a lot.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
This Saturday a guy at our store tested out the spoilered Kronos rules against a DG army. It was glorious, the Tyranid player ended up losing since he was trying out a few spoilered Codex rules with Index prices, but from everything I have seen I am really looking forward to facing the bugs.

And although the Kronos rules do seem to be some pretty good anti-Psyker tech... All I have to say is thank goodness. My local meta has begun to spam the everliving heck out of Smite (and why wouldn't you until now), but the fear of running into one of the two Tyranid players (that will most likely be playing Kronos) have made people start to think about making their armies not be one trick Smite ponies anymore.

The problem is armies that really only have that one trick. Like... what the feth is a Tzeentch army supposed to do against Kronos?

Spoletta wrote:
I would say that a dakkafex is a punisher Russ that sucks MORE in melee. It's not that pitiful 3 attacks (3 rounds of fighting to kill one marine) that are going to make the difference, but T8 12W against T7 8W will. The dakkafex holds out well in ranged fights thanks to the -1 to hit, but in melee it's an easy target. Since he has range 18" this actually matters a lot.

And ill raise you a "carnifexes don't degrade". A Russ on its last 3 wounds is effectively out of the game (unless Valhallan).

Anyway, the point is dakkafexes are really powerful and ungodly cheap. Like... transport-level cheap.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
This Saturday a guy at our store tested out the spoilered Kronos rules against a DG army. It was glorious, the Tyranid player ended up losing since he was trying out a few spoilered Codex rules with Index prices, but from everything I have seen I am really looking forward to facing the bugs.

And although the Kronos rules do seem to be some pretty good anti-Psyker tech... All I have to say is thank goodness. My local meta has begun to spam the everliving heck out of Smite (and why wouldn't you until now), but the fear of running into one of the two Tyranid players (that will most likely be playing Kronos) have made people start to think about making their armies not be one trick Smite ponies anymore.

The problem is armies that really only have that one trick. Like... what the feth is a Tzeentch army supposed to do against Kronos?

The same thing you would use against another psyker heavy army - Exalted flamers, and Daemon Princes basically. Flamers and burning chariots would also help (but I acknowledge they are not considered as competitive)

I think that it is clear that overall improvements have been made via hive fleets and strategems, however, I still feel that internal balance is still messed up with the actual units.

I feel like this will turn out to be Codex: Kronos Carnifex. Probably still won't see Maleceptors, Haruspex, or Toxicrenes outside of casual play. Tervigon is still overpriced and fragile etc...

Where can one see a summary of the major codex parts?

I don't think it will affect smite spam armies much. Even if they use the stratagem, smite is still castable and models only suffer the damage near the warlord.
Now realize that most times, it will be just a single -1 to cast due to shadows and it isn't any worse than the other fleets.

Seriously, people are acting lime that stratagem is always in effect and the warlord will always be close by.

The main buffs to the army are ranged attacks at the expense of mobility.

 SideshowLucifer wrote:
I don't think it will affect smite spam armies much. Even if they use the stratagem, smite is still castable and models only suffer the damage near the warlord.
Now realize that most times, it will be just a single -1 to cast due to shadows and it isn't any worse than the other fleets.

Seriously, people are acting lime that stratagem is always in effect and the warlord will always be close by.

The main buffs to the army are ranged attacks at the expense of mobility.

Shutting down a Warptime, Death Hex, Doom, Da Jump, Vortex of Doom etc. etc. whenever you feel like it and without rolling as long as you have 1 CP will be clutch in a lot of games. It would have been more fair to simply add a bonus to the Deny the Witch roll instead of something completely reliable and cheap as that stratagem.

 D6Damager wrote:
I think that it is clear that overall improvements have been made via hive fleets and strategems, however, I still feel that internal balance is still messed up with the actual units.

I feel like this will turn out to be Codex: Kronos Carnifex. Probably still won't see Maleceptors, Haruspex, or Toxicrenes outside of casual play. Tervigon is still overpriced and fragile etc...

I agree with you on Maleceotors and Toxicrenes but I'm looking forward to usings my Haruspex. Kraken trait + the move again strat will turn it into a giant munchy missile.

 D6Damager wrote:
I think that it is clear that overall improvements have been made via hive fleets and strategems, however, I still feel that internal balance is still messed up with the actual units.

I feel like this will turn out to be Codex: Kronos Carnifex. Probably still won't see Maleceptors, Haruspex, or Toxicrenes outside of casual play. Tervigon is still overpriced and fragile etc...

Carnifices are not that good, they work only in a well balanced nid list. Spamming daffafexes is a recipe for disaster, you will suffer tanks. When you need the combined fire of half your army (8 dakkafexes) to down a razorback and your range is 18", it will not end well.

Dakkafexes are good and 2 or 3 per list will be common, but they are not spammable.

Also, why Kronos?? They will never stay still!