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With 6 units of 5mans, that's 2-3 successful charges on what *he* decides to expose.

That leaves 4 razorbacks, 5 Tac squads, a Primarch, and a Bird to then kill the rest. I think they do that easily.

Martel732 wrote:
Those guys are over 20 ppm with no extra durability over tacs. They'll be cut to pieces in a single turn of asscannon party. Plus marines in cover have a 2+ save vs all those stormbolters.

They are 21. They each have 2 attacks with d3 damage and -2AP. and a storm bolter. They are well worth their points.

You are also getting into punching range of Bobby G. I would fight this list the reverse manner: torch it all with lascannons outside assault cannon range.

Martel732 wrote:
You are also getting into punching range of Bobby G. I would fight this list the reverse manner: torch it all with lascannons outside assault cannon range.

no, no. Don't interrupt. Small pond big fish are adorable.

Can someone put this thread out of our collective misery? It was funny 5 pages ago, the joke has long since played itself out.

The premise is premature and petulant.

The leaks of chapter approved indicates some measure of game balance maintenance on behalf of GW. They are on here and spikey bits, if you want to check them out.

clownshoes wrote:
Can someone put this thread out of our collective misery? It was funny 5 pages ago, the joke has long since played itself out.

The premise is premature and petulant.

The leaks of chapter approved indicates some measure of game balance maintenance on behalf of GW. They are on here and spikey bits, if yu want to check them out.

Hey guy - nice of you to join the community. Nice post count.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Those guys are over 20 ppm with no extra durability over tacs. They'll be cut to pieces in a single turn of asscannon party. Plus marines in cover have a 2+ save vs all those stormbolters.

They are 21. They each have 2 attacks with d3 damage and -2AP. and a storm bolter. They are well worth their points.

None of that matters on your opponent's turn.

Thanks, @clownshoes, didn't know there were leaks.

Martel732 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Those guys are over 20 ppm with no extra durability over tacs. They'll be cut to pieces in a single turn of asscannon party. Plus marines in cover have a 2+ save vs all those stormbolters.

They are 21. They each have 2 attacks with d3 damage and -2AP. and a storm bolter. They are well worth their points.

None of that matters on your opponent's turn.

It's the 1 gimmick GK's always have - they pretty much always strike first. Marines don't have that gimmick and they get destroyed.

 Xenomancers wrote:

No - 30 strike marines is 650 points...This is the core of any competitive GK list.

12x6x.888x.888x.5= 28.38

So successfully screened Razorbacks pretty much kill them all in one turn.

Is that the source of this thread? GKs only schtick that you have is you can DS, which non-Hordes armies don't have a counterplay for.

One - SM - got an option that'd put a dent in your 105-point units for 2 CP, but not wipe them. Not the end of the world.

CWE got an option for 2 CP using 500ish points to wipe any one of your 6 105-point units when they drop in wherever, and it's the end of the world?

 Xenomancers wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Those guys are over 20 ppm with no extra durability over tacs. They'll be cut to pieces in a single turn of asscannon party. Plus marines in cover have a 2+ save vs all those stormbolters.

They are 21. They each have 2 attacks with d3 damage and -2AP. and a storm bolter. They are well worth their points.

None of that matters on your opponent's turn.

It's the 1 gimmick GK's always have - they pretty much always strike first. Marines don't have that gimmick and they get destroyed.

Marines have guns, so at least if they choose to deep strike they can't be screened against.

Bharring wrote:
Is that the source of this thread? GKs only schtick that you have is you can DS, which non-Hordes armies don't have a counterplay for.

One - SM - got an option that'd put a dent in your 105-point units for 2 CP, but not wipe them. Not the end of the world.

CWE got an option for 2 CP using 500ish points to wipe any one of your 6 105-point units when they drop in wherever, and it's the end of the world?

I don't even know what you are defending anymore. The eldar stratagem is busted in comparison to the space marine one. It's not even in the same ballpark for the same cost.

The same could be said about the Lascannon being busted compared to the Brightlance.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What I'm arguing against is FUD like this:

"-Any Eldar craft-world can use the webway portal. "

I'd rather you knew the actual rules, instead of just whatever gets made up.

Can someone please sum the thread up for me? I have only just been able to get back online so I have not been able to follow it.

An argument was made that SM are the worst codex in the game.

The specific supporting evidence was argued.

Straw men for daaayyyyzzzz.

The main tangents are:
-IG tanks vs SM tanks
-Can Xeno beat most tourny winners with his GK list

The consensus forms around:
-Orkz are the worst army
-Of those with actual codexes, IG and CWE are at least better than SM, while GK are worse. No consensus on CSM/DG (and that's all the Dexes that are out)
-SM are a top-5 army, and place in many tournies

Bharring wrote:
Is that the source of this thread? GKs only schtick that you have is you can DS, which non-Hordes armies don't have a counterplay for.

One - SM - got an option that'd put a dent in your 105-point units for 2 CP, but not wipe them. Not the end of the world.

CWE got an option for 2 CP using 500ish points to wipe any one of your 6 105-point units when they drop in wherever, and it's the end of the world?

By his argument, 370 points, assuming you minned out the Farseer and were committed to leaving him on back lines to do nothing except buff Dark Reapers and possibly save the 2CP for deepstrikers. I mean you can give him Guide and Fortune, and leaving him as a babysitter for a single squad makes sense on some level I guess, and it's certainly a powerful squad, so I could see this being a setup in some armies.

But yes, despite other arguments he may have had that were well-reasoned, this is the crux of his complaints at this point in the thread, apparently this bone still has some meat on it for him.

However, he's consistently left out the Farseer requirement portion of the strat whenever he compares it to the SM version, I guess if the SM version required a Librarian to be within 6" also, he might have a point, but it's really apples and oranges.

Bharring wrote:
An argument was made that SM are the worst codex in the game.

The specific supporting evidence was argued.

Straw men for daaayyyyzzzz.

The main tangents are:
-IG tanks vs SM tanks
-Can Xeno beat most tourny winners with his GK list

The consensus forms around:
-Orkz are the worst army
-Of those with actual codexes, IG and CWE are at least better than SM, while GK are worse. No consensus on CSM/DG (and that's all the Dexes that are out)
-SM are a top-5 army, and place in many tournies

I predict SM will fall from the top 5 and be largely banished from top tables once Tyranids and the next Xeno dex hits if no chapter approved love comes through. This prediction, however, is very different than the thread's claim.

The other thing I think that gets missed is the versatility of of the SM version. If you drop in by a Tac squad, they can use it even if you're out of sight of the devs. Or getting the drop on a Sternie. Or, if you have a couple Dev squads in different locations. It's still 2CP and -1 to hit, so you might not want to.

The CWE is better, I don't see anyone arguing that. But there are upsides to the SM version.

Bharring wrote:
The other thing I think that gets missed is the versatility of of the SM version. If you drop in by a Tac squad, they can use it even if you're out of sight of the devs. Or getting the drop on a Sternie. Or, if you have a couple Dev squads in different locations. It's still 2CP and -1 to hit, so you might not want to.

The CWE is better, I don't see anyone arguing that. But there are upsides to the SM version.

You still have to honor the normal rules for shooting I believe. Have LOS and range to target.

Not many SM weapons have less than 12" range. And most DS units drop within 12" of their target.

LOS/Range is a bigger deal for the CWE version (although Reapers handle range just fine). CWE has far more sub-12"-range units than SM.

 Xenomancers wrote:

clownshoes wrote:
Can someone put this thread out of our collective misery? It was funny 5 pages ago, the joke has long since played itself out.

The premise is premature and petulant.

The leaks of chapter approved indicates some measure of game balance maintenance on behalf of GW. They are on here and spikey bits, if yu want to check them out.

Hey guy - nice of you to join the community. Nice post count.

I am afraid that this is a dick-measuring-tier answer that only validates the post you answer to.
The number of posts of a poster does not influence the quality of a given post.
Such post must judged, and answered to, by its own merits.

Bharring wrote:
An argument was made that SM are the worst codex in the game.

The specific supporting evidence was argued.

Straw men for daaayyyyzzzz.

The main tangents are:
-IG tanks vs SM tanks
-Can Xeno beat most tourny winners with his GK list

The consensus forms around:
-Orkz are the worst army
-Of those with actual codexes, IG and CWE are at least better than SM, while GK are worse. No consensus on CSM/DG (and that's all the Dexes that are out)
-SM are a top-5 army, and place in many tournies

Uh sorry if I'm interrupting but I'm a Ad-mech player and we have our codex

Some SM players need to chill, there's been *possible* leaks for the upcoming chapter approved.

A Primaris, which is a hands down better model than an Ork Nob now only costs 1 more point than them lol.

And there's also been a 150! point reduction on a certain land raider.

 master of ordinance wrote:
Can someone please sum the thread up for me? I have only just been able to get back online so I have not been able to follow it.

person1: everyone else's toys are shinier than mine.

person2: but these specific toys of yours are shinier than the toys I was given.

person1: but that only makes sense, since those other toys of yours are better than these ones I have.

we really just need one codex copy/pasted with different names for the units. I'm sure even then people would complain about their elite choice not being as good as someone else's heavy choice.

 master of ordinance wrote:
Can someone please sum the thread up for me? I have only just been able to get back online so I have not been able to follow it.

In another thread I was bitching about how I played a team game with a friend and his GMDK got taken down to one wound as an out-of-phase reaction because he deep struck and Eldar have a stratagem that lets them do that. It was the first time I'd seen anything that did that, and I was worried about the power level of such a thing (still kinda am). Someone else pointed out that SM have something that lets them shoot at anything that deep strikes, but it's almost inarguably weaker to some degree.

XM saw that and spawned another thread to use that as rationale that space marines are the worst codex ever; You know, because of that one stratagem. Since then it's been a bizarre blend of "space marine players are terrible players and children" against "space marines are worstest no they're not grey knights are the worstest nuh'uh eldar are the worstest!" (I did a little bit of the second part of that one) against "look at us poor abused space marine players... woe is us!"

There was quite a bit of the typical dakka series of logical fallacies, non sequiturs and my god the Heisenberg Uncertainty Goalposts., no great truth was learned from it, but lots of banter occurred. All things considered, we're all bad people (especially myself for having some real part in creating it) and we deserve anything bad that happens to us. Flee this thread now, all who have the chance to escape before its too late.

I don't like claiming I'm owed things, but can someone at least give me a /thread for the above?

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

clownshoes wrote:
Can someone put this thread out of our collective misery? It was funny 5 pages ago, the joke has long since played itself out.

The premise is premature and petulant.

The leaks of chapter approved indicates some measure of game balance maintenance on behalf of GW. They are on here and spikey bits, if yu want to check them out.

Hey guy - nice of you to join the community. Nice post count.

I am afraid that this is a dick-measuring-tier answer that only validates the post you answer to.
The number of posts of a poster does not influence the quality of a given post.
Such post must judged, and answered to, by its own merits.

Yeah, the more and more I read his posts, it sounds like xenomancers is just trying to troll or poke people to drum up a response with obviously ludicrous comments. This thread being one of them.

I am enjoying playing SM. If we get some points reduction that’s great. The codex is quite versatile.

12 pages and still no proof that the Space Marine codex is the worst

 Xenomancers wrote:

clownshoes wrote:
Can someone put this thread out of our collective misery? It was funny 5 pages ago, the joke has long since played itself out.

The premise is premature and petulant.

The leaks of chapter approved indicates some measure of game balance maintenance on behalf of GW. They are on here and spikey bits, if yu want to check them out.

Hey guy - nice of you to join the community. Nice post count.

I think he's only posting when he has something worthwhile to say, unlike some people who put up thousands of posts of nonsense

Martel732 wrote:


I predict SM will fall from the top 5 and be largely banished from top tables once Tyranids and the next Xeno dex hits if no chapter approved love comes through. This prediction, however, is very different than the thread's claim.

I predict they will stay in the top 3 for this entire edition, and all the future ones. Like they always had been. Chaos will fall because their most competitive built is based on spamming a FW HQ that is not accepted everywhere and I think it will be also nerfed at some point.

I don't play tyranids but if some xenos that are not necrons, tau or eldar (they all had their moment of glory) will dominate the scene I would be very glad of that.