New Craftworld Eldar FAQ, Actualized Xenos 1 for Ynnari and Designer Notes for Index vs Codex

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**tneva82**

Dudeface wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Well they confirmed how Index vs Codex is with a bloody flowchart. Anyone want to pull some mental gymnastics to refute how it intends to work?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh yeah and what are the main FAQ takeaways that are important?

What\s to refuse? It worked differently before, GW decided to alter their rules. It's their game so they can change the rules at will.

The entire argument previously was whether it did or did not work as per that chart, it's needless arguing it now.

Before GW changed rules it didn't follow that chart. Now it did. Good rule change but still doesn't that it was rules change. GW has power to change rules like they did with fliers who used to be able to take objectives.

**WatcherZero**

Kriswall wrote:
Wayniac wrote:
I am afraid that this clarification of index and codex will be opening pandora's box. it means you can take the old index options with the NEW codex datasheet (thereby getting any updates) with no drawbacks at all.

Can you give a specific example of why this would be a problem? I don't think allowing a Commissar to take a Power Axe is exactly game breaking.

I'm so glad they clarified this, I had just modded my sergeants and Tempestor Primes to have power axes as a theme using Index rules then the weapon option disappeared in the codex.

**Kdash**

I too am glad it's been clarified, and in such a good way as well! (credit where credit is due!)

Main take away's are - Ynnari soulburst nerf, spirit stones on hemlocks cost points (still dont get how people tried to argue this...) and no overwatch banshee mask, sniper, autarch with a laser lance and reaper launcher is now valid and comes in at a cool 130 points... I need to find 20 points in my list!

**Nightlord1987**

BaconCatBug wrote:
Nightlord1987 wrote:
Nice. Use of index options was as I had said all along....
And the fact they had to change it to include this flowchart shows you were wrong all along. GW have changed their mind and it's a good thing they did, but don't pretend it was this way all along.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Wayniac wrote:
I am afraid that this clarification of index and codex will be opening pandora's box. it means you can take the old index options with the NEW codex datasheet (thereby getting any updates) with no drawbacks at all.
And? The point here is to never invalidate old models.

Let's be 100% frank here, the reason the codexes cut out all the old options is to cut off their nose to spite their face regarding the chapter house lawsuits. GW would rather screw over the customer than let other companies make money selling things GW don't sell.

However, the new GW head honchos also aren't totally moronic like they were in the Kirby days, and thus the Indexes are there for older players to use their own old models, while making sure newer players forget they exist.

What are you rambling about. The only "confusing" part to people was when they stated they ASSUME you're using the most updated publications. For the 10000000th time, they specifically mentioned Dreadnought weapon options that were not listed in the codex as still being valid. So no, you were wrong the whole time.

**Cream Tea**

All good changes. They finally got the memo on the whole "abilities sharing names with wargear" thing, The Avatar was clarified and Pulsed Laser Discharge got the clearer wording of the IG rule.

I always thought Strength from Death was a bit much. This is better.

And the flowchart is a huge improvement over the sloppily worded FAQ we had earlier. I still think they should've either not included these options in the indices to begin with, or kept them in the codices, but now we know the official way to handle this at least.

**Azreal13**

Nightlord1987 wrote:

Spoiler:

BaconCatBug wrote:
Nightlord1987 wrote:
Nice. Use of index options was as I had said all along....
And the fact they had to change it to include this flowchart shows you were wrong all along. GW have changed their mind and it's a good thing they did, but don't pretend it was this way all along.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Wayniac wrote:
I am afraid that this clarification of index and codex will be opening pandora's box. it means you can take the old index options with the NEW codex datasheet (thereby getting any updates) with no drawbacks at all.
And? The point here is to never invalidate old models.

Let's be 100% frank here, the reason the codexes cut out all the old options is to cut off their nose to spite their face regarding the chapter house lawsuits. GW would rather screw over the customer than let other companies make money selling things GW don't sell.

However, the new GW head honchos also aren't totally moronic like they were in the Kirby days, and thus the Indexes are there for older players to use their own old models, while making sure newer players forget they exist.

What are you rambling about. The only "confusing" part to people was when they stated they ASSUME you're using the most updated publications. For the 10000000th time, they specifically mentioned Dreadnought weapon options that were not listed in the codex as still being valid. So no, you were wrong the whole time.

Precisely. It's pretty hilarious that people who thought that this way was wrong are trying to suggest that the flow chart has somehow changed what was clearly the way it worked all along rather than concede they're wrong.

**H.B.M.C.**

CatBug's not wrong about the reasoning behind it though...

**Azreal13**

*shrug* that's pretty self evident, at least for anyone who is interested enough to spend time on these boards. In terms of insight that's an achievment equivalent to my successfully putting on my trousers this morning.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

The stats on trouser putting on related deaths and injuries are depressing all right

Nearly 6,000 people were hurt after tripping over their trousers or falling down stairs while pulling them up. (UK, 2001 data)

(what sort of fool tries to walk up or down stairs while putting on their trousers?)

and don't even think of the even more dangerous socks and tights (10,773 are hurt each year in accidents involving socks and tights)

**TheWaspinator**

It's kind of funny that apparently some people hate Facebook so much that they wouldn't accept GW posting clarifications there but will accept a flowchart that was probably made by the same person.

**Kirasu**

While it makes list building more annoying it is certainly a good step to allow index wargear (rather than requiring you to take the entire old datasheet). Ynarri are probably a faction that you won't see much ever again! Which is sad because its the only way Eldar were really able to compete against the incredibly power chaos armies.

I see the only purpose of them being Yvraine + Dark Reapers + 3 units of DE beasts to fill a quick detachment or Patrol and add in a cheap troop. Other than that, time to go on a shelf for all eternity. Sad really.

**Ghaz**

TheWaspinator wrote:
It's kind of funny that apparently some people hate Facebook so much that they wouldn't accept GW posting clarifications there but will accept a flowchart that was probably made by the same person.

You do realize that the following is posted in the 'About' section on GW's Facebook page?

And a quick note on rules questions - we can’t give you official answers. We’re not the Games Designers, they’re locked up in the studio. We might be able to give you some general advice or point you in the right direction but better to try and work it out with your gaming buddies.

For the most part, they don't post clarifications on Facebook but say that they can't answer the question and will pass it on to the Design Studio to see if it needs a FAQ.

**Mantle**

Doesn’t this also mean I can give my autarch a banshee mask for 0 points and completely negate the need for one of the warlord traits?

**MaLiKAR**

I think the Ynnari nerf went too far. You’re just not going to want to pay the Yvraine tax now to only be able to use one of each soulburst a turn and have no activations in the opponents turn when you consider these are becoming more prevalent in codex strategems.

It’s more complex but at least one of each soulburst per phase might have been a happy medium. It’s a shame as I really doubt you’ll see much Ynnari now.

**casvalremdeikun**

I guess the only this that I see wrong with the Ynnari Nerf is that they don't get any of the Faction Traits, Warlord Traits, Relics, etc. that the other Eldar armies have(or will have). Perhaps Chapter Approved will fix that, but there is no guarantee.

**TheWaspinator**

Ghaz wrote:
TheWaspinator wrote:
It's kind of funny that apparently some people hate Facebook so much that they wouldn't accept GW posting clarifications there but will accept a flowchart that was probably made by the same person.

You do realize that the following is posted in the 'About' section on GW's Facebook page?

And a quick note on rules questions - we can’t give you official answers. We’re not the Games Designers, they’re locked up in the studio. We might be able to give you some general advice or point you in the right direction but better to try and work it out with your gaming buddies.

For the most part, they don't post clarifications on Facebook but say that they can't answer the question and will pass it on to the Design Studio to see if it needs a FAQ.

Except they totally do post clarifications on Facebook. See all of the threads on this index vs codex subject, where people have asked on Facebook about it and been told that they can indeed use those index options. That "about" does not accurately describe how the page has actually been managed in practice.

Also, unless there's author credits hidden somewhere that I don't know about, for all we know the flowchart was made by the community site people who also manage the Facebook account.

**Ghaz**

Perhaps you'd like to share a few of those 'clarifications'. All Ive ever seen is them pointing to the page that GW had already published that caused so much confusion.

**Uriels_Flame**

"Sniper Autharcs with Missile Launchers incoming"

Incoming? I have been using one since the codex came out, though only the Warp Jump version.

Good times.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mantle wrote:
Doesn’t this also mean I can give my autarch a banshee mask for 0 points and completely negate the need for one of the warlord traits?

I believe only if you are using the version that is not in the codex - so if the Warp Jump with Banshee Mask, knock yourself out.

**Kdash**

Uriels_Flame wrote:
"Sniper Autharcs with Missile Launchers incoming"

Incoming? I have been using one since the codex came out, though only the Warp Jump version.

Good times.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mantle wrote:
Doesn’t this also mean I can give my autarch a banshee mask for 0 points and completely negate the need for one of the warlord traits?

I believe only if you are using the version that is not in the codex - so if the Warp Jump with Banshee Mask, knock yourself out.

No, you -can- take a banshee mask on any of the Autarchs, as it is a wargear option listed on the index datasheet - along with Mandiblasters.

**Wonderwolf**

Yes. You can take the Banshee Mask on more or less all of them. It's an option in the index. Just have to use the codex rules for the Banshee Mask, as the new rules overwrite the old ones (even though the option to take one is only found in the index).

Pretty much like everyone always played it since the Codex, but I guess it's good to have it spelled out in excruciating detail for those guys at tournaments that like to argue instead of playing.

**Thud**

A Saim-Hann Autarch Skyrunner with Banshee Mask, Reaper Launcher and a Laser Lance (or even the relic lance) as the warlord with the sniper trait seems like a pretty good option.

As far as I can gather, that all works, right?

**Kdash**

Thud wrote:
A Saim-Hann Autarch Skyrunner with Banshee Mask, Reaper Launcher and a Laser Lance (or even the relic lance) as the warlord with the sniper trait seems like a pretty good option.

As far as I can gather, that all works, right?

Yeah, and it's the load out i will be running pretty much every time i take an Autarch.

**AduroT**

So no Eldar opponents here and not read that Index. What did that Spiritburst do exactly before the changes that made it so bad?

**Burnage**

AduroT wrote:
So no Eldar opponents here and not read that Index. What did that Spiritburst do exactly before the changes that made it so bad?

Previously, any time any unit died within 7 inches of an Ynnari unit, that unit could immediately make a free action (move, shoot, melee, generate a psychic power, etc.). A single unit could only make one Soulburst action per turn.

So now the changes are that you can only make Soulburst actions on your turn, not your opponent's, and you could only make a single Soulburst action of each type per turn. It's a pretty hefty reduction in power to full Ynnari lists.

**Turnip Jedi**

Gahh, yet again nerfs to things I buy, starting to think I'm jinxed,over the last year or so, Jumpmasters for X-Wing, Fish, Union and Alchemists for Guildball, Wurmwood and Tuna for WMH, and now Ynnari, /grumpyface

**anticitizen013**

Burnage wrote:
(snip)... pretty hefty reduction in power to full Ynnari lists.

I think that's the key. If you are using Ynnari as a support element (which is what I plan on doing with the classic 10 DR + Yvraine combo), then it shouldn't be too detrimental. Plus that allows you to get more of the Craftworld buffs, leaves you a bit more free in terms of not having to be 7" away. However, your opponent might have an easier time because instead of trying to whittle down your forces to minimize the retaliation from Soulburst, they can just obliterate your precious elves with no consequence.

So really, yeah, it's a nerf, but I'm trying to look at the bright side here

**str00dles1**

Turnip Jedi wrote:
Gahh, yet again nerfs to things I buy, starting to think I'm jinxed,over the last year or so, Jumpmasters for X-Wing, Fish, Union and Alchemists for Guildball, Wurmwood and Tuna for WMH, and now Ynnari, /grumpyface

Better to look at is like they are balancing the game to be more enjoyable and on a more even playing field. Still a lot that needs fixed (lookin at you roboute and magnus) but there hope in time they will do that

**Turnip Jedi**

str00dles1 wrote:
Turnip Jedi wrote:
Gahh, yet again nerfs to things I buy, starting to think I'm jinxed,over the last year or so, Jumpmasters for X-Wing, Fish, Union and Alchemists for Guildball, Wurmwood and Tuna for WMH, and now Ynnari, /grumpyface

Better to look at is like they are balancing the game to be more enjoyable and on a more even playing field. Still a lot that needs fixed (lookin at you roboute and magnus) but there hope in time they will do that

Oh not disagreeing SfD needing tweaking, maybe I should buy a Papa Smurf and Magnus, kaboom insta-tuned

**Dysartes**

Turnip Jedi wrote:
str00dles1 wrote:
Turnip Jedi wrote:
Gahh, yet again nerfs to things I buy, starting to think I'm jinxed,over the last year or so, Jumpmasters for X-Wing, Fish, Union and Alchemists for Guildball, Wurmwood and Tuna for WMH, and now Ynnari, /grumpyface

Better to look at is like they are balancing the game to be more enjoyable and on a more even playing field. Still a lot that needs fixed (lookin at you roboute and magnus) but there hope in time they will do that

Oh not disagreeing SfD needing tweaking, maybe I should buy a Papa Smurf and Magnus, kaboom insta-tuned

Just keep buying Chaos things - maybe start with Maggie & Morty?

**Azreal13**

Turnip Jedi wrote:
Gahh, yet again nerfs to things I buy, starting to think I'm jinxed,over the last year or so, Jumpmasters for X-Wing, Fish, Union and Alchemists for Guildball, Wurmwood and Tuna for WMH, and now Ynnari, /grumpyface

At least it isn't things you enjoy eating this time.