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I was honest. What I said I wanted from them was more designers notes and such explaining precisely what they changed and how they approach game design, rather than just doing it and then sitting in the ivory tower (I didn't use this language) looking down on their work.
I think a lot of people (outside of the cult) are going to be honest and tell them how we feel... it won't be us saying that they're the worst but it will be a lot of people feeling disappointed with them. Also it's our chance to complain about prices! go go go!
I answered polietly and honestly - it may do nothing but at least they are continuing to ask for feedback
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Vaktathi wrote: Alpharius, with that big inflammatory image just a few posts down from the OP, I don' think this thread has a chance...
That said, I did the survey, this appeared to mostly just be demographic data mining, with relatively limited feedback options (e.g. "tell us one thing..."), they're looking for who buys what and how much, not so much product feedback it looks like. I added my $0.02 anyway where i could anyway, but methinks it would be a bit much too expect anything big to come out of this.
Yeah... kinda feel this is the new gw. They pretend to have changed but secretly they're still worshiping chaos.
I found it odd that they had Denmark, Norway and Finland as country options, but not Sweden. Sweden is the largest and most populous of the Nordic countries.
lolman1c wrote: I think a lot of people (outside of the cult) are going to be honest and tell them how we feel... it won't be us saying that they're the worst but it will be a lot of people feeling disappointed with them. Also it's our chance to complain about prices! go go go!
They'll need to move production out towards Asia if they want to make a price cut.
Vaktathi wrote: Alpharius, with that big inflammatory image just a few posts down from the OP, I don' think this thread has a chance...
That said, I did the survey, this appeared to mostly just be demographic data mining, with relatively limited feedback options (e.g. "tell us one thing..."), they're looking for who buys what and how much, not so much product feedback it looks like. I added my $0.02 anyway where i could anyway, but methinks it would be a bit much too expect anything big to come out of this.
Yeah... kinda feel this is the new gw. They pretend to have changed but secretly they're still worshiping chaos.
They did provide an option to select which Chaos god was your favorite...
"Show me where it says that in the codex!" said Learchus.
"You know brother that I cannot." said Uriel.
Vaktathi wrote:That said, I did the survey, this appeared to mostly just be demographic data mining, with relatively limited feedback options (e.g. "tell us one thing..."), they're looking for who buys what and how much, not so much product feedback it looks like.
That is exactly what it is.
lliu wrote:I just told them to drop prices. We all know they’re earning massive profits that are disproportionate.
Are they? Is their balance sheet public?
M.
No, but do the math. Plastic is incredibly cheap. Sure, it’s of a higher quality, but it certainly does not cost 30 bucks for the amount a sprue contains. The design and mild making are extremely pricey, but, again, not enough to justify that cost. I read somewhere it cost GW 53 cents per character sprue.
Vaktathi wrote:That said, I did the survey, this appeared to mostly just be demographic data mining, with relatively limited feedback options (e.g. "tell us one thing..."), they're looking for who buys what and how much, not so much product feedback it looks like.
That is exactly what it is.
lliu wrote:I just told them to drop prices. We all know they’re earning massive profits that are disproportionate.
Are they? Is their balance sheet public?
M.
No, but do the math. Plastic is incredibly cheap. Sure, it’s of a higher quality, but it certainly does not cost 30 bucks for the amount a sprue contains. The design and mild making are extremely pricey, but, again, not enough to justify that cost. I read somewhere it cost GW 53 cents per character sprue.
You are missing so much data, that nothing meaningful can be extrapolated from the price of the box alone, even if you know the material cost per figure.
No, but do the math. Plastic is incredibly cheap. Sure, it’s of a higher quality, but it certainly does not cost 30 bucks for the amount a sprue contains. The design and mild making are extremely pricey, but, again, not enough to justify that cost. I read somewhere it cost GW 53 cents per character sprue.
Some unit sold is an overpriced ripoff (see plague brethren) but I am afraid you are underestimating all the time and money spent on software, hiring and training people, design, and loads of other stuff. I am not the greatest fan of this "cut at any cost" mentality because the result is usually move the facilities in places with very shady worker rights.
EDIT: also, I find amusing that people want cut prices but more presence on social media etc. These things have production costs, consultants, all sort of stuff that - surprise surprise - costs money.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/12/01 01:19:20
Generic characters disappearing? Elite units of your army losing options and customizations? No longer finding that motivation to convert?
Your army could suffer Post-Chapterhouse Stress Disorder (PCSD)! If you think that your army is suffering one or more of the aforementioned symptoms, call us at 789-666-1982 for a quick diagnosis!
I answered the survey as honestly as I felt that it would allow. The design and questions were a little strange, and I doubt any human will be reading the results of these surveys, but I was brutally honest, and that's all that matters.
Drager wrote: GW is a public UK company, they have to publish their books. These are not full accounts, but are pretty revealing. Balance sheet is page 11.
Vaktathi wrote:That said, I did the survey, this appeared to mostly just be demographic data mining, with relatively limited feedback options (e.g. "tell us one thing..."), they're looking for who buys what and how much, not so much product feedback it looks like.
That is exactly what it is.
lliu wrote:I just told them to drop prices. We all know they’re earning massive profits that are disproportionate.
Are they? Is their balance sheet public?
M.
No, but do the math. Plastic is incredibly cheap. Sure, it’s of a higher quality, but it certainly does not cost 30 bucks for the amount a sprue contains. The design and mild making are extremely pricey, but, again, not enough to justify that cost. I read somewhere it cost GW 53 cents per character sprue.
I mean...Admittedly I'm dealing with less sales volume, but I design injection molded plastic for medical devices, and our profit margins per molded part are vastly higher than what GW gets.
Material cost is practically nothing in the grand scheme of things. Design and mold making for something like this (and this is just me spitballing for a design number here) would most likely be somewhere in the range of 60k per sprue. Call the profit margin at cost to distributors most likely 80%, that's a significant amount of time to be in the hole per product. You've got to figure they project the peak sales period to hopefully make their investment back and then a bit (since they probably come out with a sprue a week on average) and then you reduce the profit margin a bit for longer shelf time in the long run after the release sales spike.
I'm not saying they don't make money, but they pay an obvious premium for design talent and people enormously underestimate the cost of those molds. Materials is nothing - packaging, shipping, and storage most likely dwarf materials in terms of overhead costs.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
Vaktathi wrote:That said, I did the survey, this appeared to mostly just be demographic data mining, with relatively limited feedback options (e.g. "tell us one thing..."), they're looking for who buys what and how much, not so much product feedback it looks like.
That is exactly what it is.
lliu wrote:I just told them to drop prices. We all know they’re earning massive profits that are disproportionate.
Are they? Is their balance sheet public?
M.
No, but do the math. Plastic is incredibly cheap. Sure, it’s of a higher quality, but it certainly does not cost 30 bucks for the amount a sprue contains. The design and mild making are extremely pricey, but, again, not enough to justify that cost. I read somewhere it cost GW 53 cents per character sprue.
I mean...Admittedly I'm dealing with less sales volume, but I design injection molded plastic for medical devices, and our profit margins per molded part are vastly higher than what GW gets.
Material cost is practically nothing in the grand scheme of things. Design and mold making for something like this (and this is just me spitballing for a design number here) would most likely be somewhere in the range of 60k per sprue. Call the profit margin at cost to distributors most likely 80%, that's a significant amount of time to be in the hole per product. You've got to figure they project the peak sales period to hopefully make their investment back and then a bit (since they probably come out with a sprue a week on average) and then you reduce the profit margin a bit for longer shelf time in the long run after the release sales spike.
I'm not saying they don't make money, but they pay an obvious premium for design talent and people enormously underestimate the cost of those molds. Materials is nothing - packaging, shipping, and storage most likely dwarf materials in terms of overhead costs.
This might be interesting given your converstaion:
Design
Employing 187 people, the design studio in Nottingham creates all the IP and the miniatures, artwork, games and
publications that we sell. In 2016/17 we invested £8.0 million in the studio (including software costs) with a further £2.3
million spent on tooling for new plastic miniatures. We are committed to a similar level of investment every year.
yes.
I feel like after I got my space marine codex it looked like it was almost built around Guilliman. I feel like marines across the board are lacking. I think the classic Tactical squad needs to be looked at again. Combat Squads are currently in my opinion, useless, for the points of 5 additional marines I can get a new squad and with the sergeant get an additional combi weapon/power weapon. But my suggestion for an easy fix to combat squads is this "As long as the Sergeant is alive both halves use his leadership and are affected by stratagems" the second part about the stratagems opens many doors and decisions. I was also thinking that they could overwatch for each other similar to tau, or maybe if one squad fires the other gets a bonus.
Marines should have 2 wounds and 2 attacks like primaris (but with this change they'd need to be changed too) my reasoning for this is a marine is 13 points, for 12 I can get 3 guardsmen for 3x the wounds, 3x the attacks and 3x the shots, yes granted the marine is tougher, stronger, and shoots better and has better armour, but is almost generally outnumbered and out gunned. 8th edition is a new age for 40k and I feel like marines have not aged well.
While I do believe the humble bolter is fine at S4, Ap-, again on a 13-point model is feels like a pee shooter, with Sisters of battle being essentially on par with marines in shooting I’d much rather take her than a burly marine and spend those points I save on another unit. I would also like to say that I feel like 13 points reflects how much a marine should cost, but this isn’t reflected well on data sheet.
I love terminators! But, I have only used them once to see what they were like, I begrudgingly put them back in my case after that game. The change to power fists having -1 to hit, perfect, a terminator having a 2+ armour save, well a marine can get that in cover. Frankly my terminators don’t strike fear in anyone.
The 30th anniversary poster beautifully depicted some crimson fists warding off some orks, but once the orks get their codex and get their equivalent of "defenders of humanity" that hill will belong to the orks, because like I said marines are almost always outnumbered and that entire ability will be worthless at that time.
I would like to see more transparency with what Primaris marines are. There seems to be this stigma where everyone believes they are going to replace our current marines. Frankly even if there was an entire article stating this the fear would be there, I’d say this can easily be remedied by releasing a “normal” marine product.
But not all is negative! I love this new edition, I love that the company as a whole is trying to communicate with their customers more this survey is proof of that. This certainly was long, but I hope you made it through the whole thing and that my suggestions are taken into consideration, thank you
Hahaha I basically wrote an essay in that last box!
I hope at least one person reads it...
Drager wrote: GW is a public UK company, they have to publish their books. These are not full accounts, but are pretty revealing. Balance sheet is page 11.
All in all I get why they are expensive, mainly the aspect that you do have these things forever. If I have 50 marines (which is low balling) I have them till I throw them out or I die, so i don't mind them charging a bit of a premium, that being said of course i would prefer them to be cheaper, but again I want GW to make money so they'll be around.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/01 04:38:53
I mainly pointed to plastic Sisters but I also mentioned the lack of availability that 3rd party sellers have for models.
I feel like using it as an oppertunity to complain about rules is a waste. They get loads of feedback about rules, there are other issues in the hobby that could be addressedt that no one talks about.
Sim-Life wrote: I mainly pointed to plastic Sisters but I also mentioned the lack of availability that 3rd party sellers have for models.
I feel like using it as an oppertunity to complain about rules is a waste. They get loads of feedback about rules, there are other issues in the hobby that could be addressedt that no one talks about.
Precisely my thoughts. That's why with my comments I made sure to note I always convert my characters and that easier to acquire bitz would be awesome.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
I told them to bring back fantasy and proper 40k not the abomination that is 8th (my opinion) or at least provide rules for their new releases for fantasy and 7th edition so that those of us that don’t like faketyK and aos can continue to have some support.
I told them to (1) Lower the fragging prices, Emprar damnit! and (2) remake Epic 40k but with the vehicles in the same scale as the infantry (my 40k wet dream).
Not that they will ever do either, but worth a punt.
I asked them to take thier time with codexes if it means more "balanced" rules( I now it's quite improbable) and/or FAQs for other codexes in order to keep them a to date ( as lately the newer the codex the better it is )
Craftworld Sciatháin 4180 pts 
