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2017/12/17 17:30:51
Subject: Real life characters who are so caricatural that they could very well be from the 41st Millenium
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
godardc wrote: How did Cadorna become general with such amazing tactics ?
The generals in WW1 grew up and were trained during the 1800s. A period when armies were still armed with muzzle loading rifles and fought in straight lines. It was a case of military tactics not having adapted to the military hardware they were equipped with. Largely because there had not yet been a war to show the reality of the situation.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
The generals in WW1 grew up and were trained during the 1800s. A period when armies were still armed with muzzle loading rifles and fought in straight lines. It was a case of military tactics not having adapted to the military hardware they were equipped with. Largely because there had not yet been a war to show the reality of the situation.
While this is true some generals were quicker to adapt than others. If I recall correctly Cadorna's replacement performed much better.
2017/12/17 17:50:43
Subject: Real life characters who are so caricatural that they could very well be from the 41st Millenium
The generals in WW1 grew up and were trained during the 1800s. A period when armies were still armed with muzzle loading rifles and fought in straight lines. It was a case of military tactics not having adapted to the military hardware they were equipped with. Largely because there had not yet been a war to show the reality of the situation.
While this is true some generals were quicker to adapt than others. If I recall correctly Cadorna's replacement performed much better.
Hardly surprising. The lower ranks were more experienced in the reality at the front line. Plus if you are replacing someone it is good incentive not to do what caused him to get replaced.
The Old Guard of many militaries at the time tended to be rather set in their ways. Having been a product of a warfare system which hadn't changed for nearly 200 years. The concept of a mobile war which moved quickly was alien to them. War was foot sloggers and a bunch of towed artillery to them. Not infantry riding in vehicles following tanks while airplanes roared overhead.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
More importantly, in many countries, becoming a general was often a result of family background and political savvy, and not a promotion due to actual battlefield prowess or proven performance.
2017/12/18 18:41:29
Subject: Re:Real life characters who are so caricatural that they could very well be from the 41st Millenium
Elbows wrote: More importantly, in many countries, becoming a general was often a result of family background and political savvy, and not a promotion due to actual battlefield prowess or proven performance.
Especially in armies that had rarely fought large scale wars in Europe.?
Most older armies in Europe, well there main armies spent thr majority of time in Africa etc not Europe actively. Europe was a parade ground...
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
2017/12/18 20:46:20
Subject: Re:Real life characters who are so caricatural that they could very well be from the 41st Millenium
Elbows wrote: More importantly, in many countries, becoming a general was often a result of family background and political savvy, and not a promotion due to actual battlefield prowess or proven performance.
Especially in armies that had rarely fought large scale wars in Europe.?
Most older armies in Europe, well there main armies spent thr majority of time in Africa etc not Europe actively. Europe was a parade ground...
Consider Italy. They had a huge amount of combat experience in Africa, but the experience was gained by generals who had already been put there by family connections. The hollywood thing where some random smuck is given a chance to command a few thousand men on a hope that it'll work out tends not to happen. Even Patton, who was as bootstraps as they come, admitted his family connections put him in his rank as much as his success.
Bender wrote:* Realise that despite the way people talk, this is not a professional sport played by demi gods, but rather a game of toy soldiers played by tired, inebriated human beings.
godardc wrote: How did Cadorna become general with such amazing tactics ?
The generals in WW1 grew up and were trained during the 1800s. A period when armies were still armed with muzzle loading rifles and fought in straight lines. It was a case of military tactics not having adapted to the military hardware they were equipped with. Largely because there had not yet been a war to show the reality of the situation.
Interestingly many nations sent official observers to view the American Civil War which should have given them an idea about what was to come, also the Crimea was sieges and trench warfare more than glorious cavalry charges.
By WWI, they had at least ditched the bright uniforms and now had helmets rather than the useless headgear of previous generations - but when the war became dominated by static siege warfare, machine guns and artillery options were in fact limited.
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
I'd propose Admiral Yi. Not only for his own personality and achievements (which put him as one of the greatest naval commanders the world has ever seen), but for the hurdles of idiotic political bs he had to overcome.
Just seems like the exact kind of idiocy which would happen in the Imperium.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/12/19 10:05:28
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
2017/12/22 13:27:07
Subject: Real life characters who are so caricatural that they could very well be from the 41st Millenium
How has no one mentioned The White Death yet?!? He was a Finnish sniper during The Winter War, is credited with over 500 kills, got shot in the face, and used a crappy Mosin Nagant with no scope.
I'm going to butcher the spelling of his name, so apologies...
Simo Huayra
2017/12/22 15:25:50
Subject: Real life characters who are so caricatural that they could very well be from the 41st Millenium
Because he actually hit his target, which is very non-imperial guard.
Bender wrote:* Realise that despite the way people talk, this is not a professional sport played by demi gods, but rather a game of toy soldiers played by tired, inebriated human beings.
IandI wrote: How has no one mentioned The White Death yet?!? He was a Finnish sniper during The Winter War, is credited with over 500 kills, got shot in the face, and used a crappy Mosin Nagant with no scope.
I'm going to butcher the spelling of his name, so apologies...
Simo Huayra
His name was Simo Häyhä.
The rifle he used wasn't some random crappy Mosin Nagant. It was a local variant with improvements.
All the other things are true. Though, I have to add that he didn't die after he got shot in the face. He lived to this very millenium. Yeah. Bullets aren't instant death in all of the cases.
As for no scope, he didn't use one because that could have given away his position via reflection.
"Be like General Tarsus of yore, bulletproof and free of fear!"
2017/12/23 14:43:13
Subject: Real life characters who are so caricatural that they could very well be from the 41st Millenium
I was in a hurry when I wrote that post so I left out a few details but I've read through his Wikipedia page a few times. He also packed his mouth with snow so that the condensation from his breath wouldn't give away his position, and survived multiple artillery strikes.
Is he regarded as a national hero in Finland? I know you guys still take long range shooting very seriously there, I've had a Tikka T3 for about 4 years now and it is lights out accurate.
The Winter War in general has always intrigued me because of how well the Finn's performed against overwhelming numbers.
2017/12/23 16:29:09
Subject: Real life characters who are so caricatural that they could very well be from the 41st Millenium
IandI wrote: How has no one mentioned The White Death yet?!? He was a Finnish sniper during The Winter War, is credited with over 500 kills, got shot in the face, and used a crappy Mosin Nagant with no scope.
I'm going to butcher the spelling of his name, so apologies...
Simo Huayra
His name was Simo Häyhä.
The rifle he used wasn't some random crappy Mosin Nagant. It was a local variant with improvements.
All the other things are true. Though, I have to add that he didn't die after he got shot in the face. He lived to this very millenium. Yeah. Bullets aren't instant death in all of the cases.
As for no scope, he didn't use one because that could have given away his position via reflection.
Might also want to mention that he fell into a coma after being shot in the face and woke up the same day the war in Europe ended. Coincidence? I think not.
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
2017/12/23 16:38:19
Subject: Real life characters who are so caricatural that they could very well be from the 41st Millenium
A Town Called Malus wrote: I'd propose Admiral Yi. Not only for his own personality and achievements (which put him as one of the greatest naval commanders the world has ever seen), but for the hurdles of idiotic political bs he had to overcome.
Just seems like the exact kind of idiocy which would happen in the Imperium.
To summarize his achievements: Was a soldier by trade, not a naval officer. Got demoted for political reasons several times only to rise back up on sheer competence, taught HIMSELF from books about naval warfare, won EVERY naval battle he fought in, got removed for refusing to sail into a trap - which destroyed the fleet of the idiot who did sail into it - then rebuilt the Korean fleet, and with the help of the Chinese, finally ruined the Japanese Navy in his final battle (he was shot while beating the war drum, and had his son put on his armor so that his own fleet wouldn't know he was dead unit the battle was over).
Also: Extra History is AMAZING, and the Christmas season is a great time to binge watch it!
A Town Called Malus wrote: I'd propose Admiral Yi. Not only for his own personality and achievements (which put him as one of the greatest naval commanders the world has ever seen), but for the hurdles of idiotic political bs he had to overcome.
Just seems like the exact kind of idiocy which would happen in the Imperium.
To summarize his achievements: Was a soldier by trade, not a naval officer. Got demoted for political reasons several times only to rise back up on sheer competence, taught HIMSELF from books about naval warfare, won EVERY naval battle he fought in, got removed for refusing to sail into a trap - which destroyed the fleet of the idiot who did sail into it - then rebuilt the Korean fleet, and with the help of the Chinese, finally ruined the Japanese Navy in his final battle (he was shot while beating the war drum, and had his son put on his armor so that his own fleet wouldn't know he was dead unit the battle was over).
Also: Extra History is AMAZING, and the Christmas season is a great time to binge watch it!
Don't forget the previous time he was shot, where he began to calmly remove the musket ball whilst giving his fleet captains instructions on how to deploy the fleet following the end of a battle, or his original officer exam where he was thrown from his horse and broke his leg, only to crawl to a tree, bind his leg with a branch, get back on the horse and complete the exam. Failed the exam that time but in what style!
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
2017/12/24 03:56:28
Subject: Re:Real life characters who are so caricatural that they could very well be from the 41st Millenium
I was always partial to Roger Young. Mostly because he was a tremendously heroic bastard, but also because he was from Tiffin, which is not very far from me.
He rose in rank and when his unit was activated, he asked to be demoted from a Sargeant due to his hearing loss. He was alright with losing his own life but did not want to be responsible for killing his men because his hearing was so bad. His unit was pinned down by an enemy machine gun nest that had already killed two and wounded Young, and his unit were trying to flank said nest. This resulted in two more being killed and the CO ordering a retreat. Roger said that he "Can't hear your orders, Sir!" and crept forward getting wounded again. The nest started 75 yards away, and Roger finally got close enough to grenade it. He started chucking grenades into it destroying it, but received another machine gun burst that ended his life. He was, in my mind, one of the most stubborn, heroic men that our greatest generation could have ever produced.
Now, we like big books. (And we cannot lie. You other readers can’t deny, a book flops open with an itty-bitty font, and a map that’s in your face, you get—sorry! Sorry!)
2017/12/25 00:46:28
Subject: Re:Real life characters who are so caricatural that they could very well be from the 41st Millenium
Issam Zahreddine aka "The Lion". Major General in the Syrian Republican Guard, and of Druze background. He was something of a hardass, sometimes employed overkill, and absolutely ruthless against ISIS insurgents. He was also known to mingle with his troops, making him popular amongst his men. He would fit in with the more competent Imperial Guard officers (the few there have been in lore).
He was KIA back in October, after his staff vehicle hit a land mine during anti-ISIL operations Hawija Saqr.
Also Polish exile and mercenary Rafał Gan-Ganowicz. While working in Yemen in the late 1960's, under contract with the Saudis, he was supposedly asked what it was like to kill another Human being. His response was "I wouldn't know, I've only ever killed Communists". He would make a good Imperial Guard officer or NCO.
Proud Purveyor Of The Unconventional In 40k
2017/12/28 06:27:38
Subject: Real life characters who are so caricatural that they could very well be from the 41st Millenium
oldravenman3025 wrote: Issam Zahreddine aka "The Lion". Major General in the Syrian Republican Guard, and of Druze background. He was something of a hardass, sometimes employed overkill, and absolutely ruthless against ISIS insurgents. He was also known to mingle with his troops, making him popular amongst his men. He would fit in with the more competent Imperial Guard officers (the few there have been in lore).
His (alleged) willingness to perform crimes against humanity (e.g. murder of journalists, beating of prisoners) makes him even more suitable for the 40k setting.
As for my citations...
Everyone aboard Taffy 3's destroyers and escort destroyers. The small task force came under attack by a big chunk of the Imperial Japanese navy. The American escort vessels were massively outnumbered and outgunned, but responded by charging the enemy. This attack was so ferocious that the Imperial navy eventually disengaged, convinced that the American force was many times its actual strength.
Demetrius I, at the Siege of Thebes, upon hearing of the horrific loses that his troops were taking: "We don't have to find rations for the dead."
Various Japanese soldiers that refused to surrender until decades after the war. I can easily imagine former PDF or ex-guard troops surviving on hostile worlds decades after their parent regiments had been wiped out.
2017/12/29 00:44:27
Subject: Re:Real life characters who are so caricatural that they could very well be from the 41st Millenium
oldravenman3025 wrote: Issam Zahreddine aka "The Lion". Major General in the Syrian Republican Guard, and of Druze background. He was something of a hardass, sometimes employed overkill, and absolutely ruthless against ISIS insurgents. He was also known to mingle with his troops, making him popular amongst his men. He would fit in with the more competent Imperial Guard officers (the few there have been in lore).
His (alleged) willingness to perform crimes against humanity (e.g. murder of journalists, beating of prisoners) makes him even more suitable for the 40k setting.
As for my citations...
Everyone aboard Taffy 3's destroyers and escort destroyers. The small task force came under attack by a big chunk of the Imperial Japanese navy. The American escort vessels were massively outnumbered and outgunned, but responded by charging the enemy. This attack was so ferocious that the Imperial navy eventually disengaged, convinced that the American force was many times its actual strength.
Demetrius I, at the Siege of Thebes, upon hearing of the horrific loses that his troops were taking: "We don't have to find rations for the dead."
Various Japanese soldiers that refused to surrender until decades after the war. I can easily imagine former PDF or ex-guard troops surviving on hostile worlds decades after their parent regiments had been wiped out.
Or a lost marine. Company seemed to be wiped out. No real imperial advanced base. Stuck.
They would ensure most planets, a figure of fear and legend roaming towns. A giant of a man who does whatever for cash and materials before walking on again.
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
2017/12/29 09:05:20
Subject: Real life characters who are so caricatural that they could very well be from the 41st Millenium
Not read the thread yet, but my list would be something like:
Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Mussolini (he tried to ban pasta in Italy to make everyone eat rice instead, he wasn't just a fascist leader), Trump (c'mon, regardless of your opinion on him, he is pretty caricatural), Churchill, the political activist group Antifa, about half of the population of Texas (just try to tell me that gun-toting rednecks with right and far-right political views would look out of place in 40k).
And if I had to go for caricatural organisations, the UK govt in all its forms (the IOM is literally based on this), the US govt for its suspected black ops and its shtick of "left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing", and the European Union for all it's bureaucracy and commitment to becoming a global (universal) empire.
So many options...
Aaaand let's not forget North Korea. They are the only country in the world that has a dead head of state instead of a living one, and they made a religion out of it.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/12/29 09:11:28
2017/12/29 18:06:15
Subject: Re:Real life characters who are so caricatural that they could very well be from the 41st Millenium
Another good candidate would be Lieutenant-Colonel Colin Campbell Mitchell, aka "Mad Mitch". With his take no attitude, head-butting with superiors, and his dedication to the military, he would be something close to a Colonel-Commissar Ibram Gaunt-type of character.
Proud Purveyor Of The Unconventional In 40k
2018/01/02 01:19:56
Subject: Real life characters who are so caricatural that they could very well be from the 41st Millenium
Way too nice for 40k they don't kill people and usually they don't even maim them!
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2018/01/02 02:19:53
Subject: Real life characters who are so caricatural that they could very well be from the 41st Millenium
Way too nice for 40k they don't kill people and usually they don't even maim them!
Yeah, because your typical Necromunda underhive ganger could eat those soy boys and moldylocks alive. And they couldn't comprehend the pure awesomeness of 40k. Star Trek would be more their speed.
Proud Purveyor Of The Unconventional In 40k
2018/01/02 12:57:34
Subject: Real life characters who are so caricatural that they could very well be from the 41st Millenium
Crew of 'Merkuriy' brig during Russo-Turkish war of 1829.
While on scouting duty Merkuriy was intercepted by turkish squadron (6 'battleships' - ships of the line - with some escort) with no realistic chance of running.
Officers decided to engage the enemy and as last resort try to grapple with some turkish ship then blow up gunpowder store. Captain placed loaded pistol next to powder pit for last surviving officer to ignite powder while sailors nailed shut Imperial Navy's flag to mast.
Due to Mercury captain's superior sailing and some luck only two turkish ships of the line (including flagship) engaged it - ones with 10 times more cannons though.
Actively maneuring - officers incl. captain crewed cannons to free sailors to work rigging - after four hour engagement brig was able to disable both enemy batteships and break free.
In recognition all officers got Tula-pattern pistol added to their coats of arms (beside medals, promotions and full-pay for life that were awarded for all commoner ratings too).
Without passion we'd be truly dead.
2018/01/02 14:17:43
Subject: Real life characters who are so caricatural that they could very well be from the 41st Millenium
chyron wrote: Crew of 'Merkuriy' brig during Russo-Turkish war of 1829.
While on scouting duty Merkuriy was intercepted by turkish squadron (6 'battleships' - ships of the line - with some escort) with no realistic chance of running.
Officers decided to engage the enemy and as last resort try to grapple with some turkish ship then blow up gunpowder store. Captain placed loaded pistol next to powder pit for last surviving officer to ignite powder while sailors nailed shut Imperial Navy's flag to mast.
Due to Mercury captain's superior sailing and some luck only two turkish ships of the line (including flagship) engaged it - ones with 10 times more cannons though.
Actively maneuring - officers incl. captain crewed cannons to free sailors to work rigging - after four hour engagement brig was able to disable both enemy batteships and break free.
In recognition all officers got Tula-pattern pistol added to their coats of arms (beside medals, promotions and full-pay for life that were awarded for all commoner ratings too).
Damn. That's some good sailing.
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
2018/01/02 18:29:53
Subject: Re:Real life characters who are so caricatural that they could very well be from the 41st Millenium
Okay... Edited this post because I found the same interview on You Tube.
Rudy Hernandez.
Korean war. His position overwhelmed, and ordered to retreat, he jumped out from his foxhole and countercharged the enemy. He shouted "Here I come!" with an empty/jammed rifle in his hands and took on the enemy armed only with his bayonet on the end of his rifle.
He killed one enemy and then was stabbed in the mouth knocking out his lower front teeth. He then stabbed that assailant and continued onward.
He was found the following day surrounded by enemies he had killed in hand to hand combat. Missing part of his head from an artillery explosion. He was presumed dead and put in a body bag.
Later, a medic saw his hand moving and exclaimed "this guys not dead!"
He was awarded the Medal of Honor for his actions.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/02 19:13:45
Khorne Daemons 4000+pts
2018/01/08 13:48:08
Subject: Real life characters who are so caricatural that they could very well be from the 41st Millenium
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
attitude, head-butting with superiors, and his dedication to the military, he would be something close to a Colonel-Commissar Ibram Gaunt-type of character.
