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Okay: So yes, its one of those threads again. And just as the title says this is pure wishlisting. If I had any sort of creditable rumors I would have posted this in the appropriate forum. I'm also not going to list plastic sister/new models because its obvious. Other things like stratagems and Relics are likely already in development so I won't be touching on them either. Keep in mind, these are purely my opinion, and I'm open to reasonable discussions.
1: I'd like to see the Canoness given a 2+ armor save, or at least the option for the equivalent of artificer armor with an appropriate points cost. at 45 points base though, they are still a solid points effective HQ choice
2: One or two named canoness characters, I don't think we need one for each Order, but perhaps one or two for the most prominent orders.
3: while Celestine is awesome, no complaints there, I think it would be nice to see the inclusion of an option to take a generic living saint.
4: The sisters have a number of specific Orders, and I'd like to see them get the equivalent of chapter tactics. ((This is probably in the pipeline already or at least the intention to include it))
5: Another Troop option. the Battle Sister squad has the options to be very versatile, but I'd still like to see maybe a Novice Scout unit, or maybe even repentia moved to a troop option.
6: Speaking of Repentia: I really don't think they belong as an Elite option. Move them to either Troop or Fast Attack Please!
7:The Sororitas Rhino: is a 6+ invul really worth making it 40 points more expensive then the space marine one? I'd kinda like to see a points reduction here.
8: Heavy Armor: I think I'd rather see them gain something closer to the primaris Gravis armor, then terminator armor or emperor forbid centurions. So the sisters equivalent of an Aggressor Squad.
9: A large transport: you can take sister squads in units up to 15, but the rhino and repressor only have transport capacity of 10. Immolators are fine as they are, being the sisters version of Razorbacks. but I'd like to see them with something similar to a Spartan.
10: A Heavy Tank: could be a multi part Kit with the large transport, but I think they could really use an equivalent to the landraider/repulsor tanks.
11: I would be okay seeing them as part of a larger inquistion codex with inquisitors and maybe even the Deathwatch. Or even fully fleshed out in another Imperial Agents style codex.
12: I don't want to see Primaris Sisters.
I like to say I have two armies: Necrons, and Imperium.....
1. Wargear upgrade would be nice, perhaps even an additional relic.
2. I woul prefer the Palatine instead.
3. Generic living saint would be great to at least get a winged HQ unit past all the "no named characters" limitations popping up seemingly everywhere.
4. I would like to see those units commonly associated with specific Orders perhaps get the troops unit designator, or a specific unit buff for that Order. Argent Shroud - Seraphim, Bloody Rose - Dominions, Valorous Heart - Repentia, Sacred Rose - Retributors etc.
5. Please, no Sister novice scouts.
6. Repentia could go a lot of ways, but they need to be cheaper to earn their way on to the table. The Dialogus costs less and she can at least trigger Martyrdom.
7. Sisters have Rhino's?
8. Just give your new second troop choice power mauls and an invuln with shiny new protectiva shield thingies.
9. Baneblade sized Cathedral tank transport or I want absolutely nothing bigger than a Repressor.
10. Fix the Exorcist. Its plenty heavy already and looks fantastic! (to religious crazies who like churches and organs on their tanks)
11. With the way 8ed is going there is no reason they need to be rolled in to anything. Just leave them in the Index if GW doesn't want to do anything stand alone with Sisters.
12. Sisters aren't gene altered mutant freaks. I wouldn't worry about that.
13. Give Imagifers war gear options.
14. Change Celestians into the 7ed Imperial Agents Sororitas Command Squad with full wargear options for all the Celestians.
15. Sororitas objective cards.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/16 06:30:47
1.) Well, 3+ and a 4++ on a Character is pretty good - against real melee threats you're relying of 4++ regardless. The option for 2+ would be nice, though.
2.) Not needed any more than generic space marines need them.
3.) Living saints would be good.
4.) Chapter tactics would be good.
5.) Yes to more troop options. Lightly armored novices would be great, as would melee power armor units (shield and mace, perhaps, or halberds?). Repentia shouldn't be troops IMO, they're suicide units.
6.) Fast attack might make more sense, if they got a decent move stat or a scout move.
7.) Yes, it's overcosted.
8.) I think this could be handled with the mace+shield idea above. I kind of like the fact that the sisters stick to basic power armor.
9-11.) Give sisters Corvus Blackstars! Problems solved!
12.) Sisters are ordinary humans.
Wow, now I really want Sisters with Power Mauls and Storm Shields in Corvus Blackstars.
Well what i DONT want is for them just to be space marines lite.
A 2+ on the Cannoness would be nice but something for her to reroll saves would be alright too.
Additional Sisters generic HQ like a Prioress or Palatine would be welcome. Id like ministorum stuff to be kept to a minimum- no more than what exists already.
Generic saint want so hard!
Celestians need a place. Aside from bodyguard theres no incentive for me to take them ever.
Power mauls and storm shield has been suggested but that makes me think of dark angels unit.
Id be happy if they had the option for praesidium protectiva and pistols to keep with the sisters shootiness and not look like lite marines.
Repentia need a serious price drop. For a suicide squad theyre way too expensive.
Order Tactics for all the Orders would be great.
Fix exorcists...more damage or more shots. I dont mind d6 shots, its always had that, part of its charm, but this has literally gone from exploding leman russes in a single shot, to laughably barely able to scratch the paint on a rhino.
I dont want a price drop. I want effectiveness. It is our soul source real ranged support.
I can get behind the superheavy organ tank.
Churchy aesthetic ramped up to 11. Organ cannons and the like are characterful identifying parts of the sisters. Keep this sort of theme.
Exorcists should move to flat 3 damage and get the whirlwind scorpius's 'don't move, double shoot' ability and a point increase.
I'd like to see a bike unit of some kind. Personally I think biker repentia would be the only way repentia ever actually see any use, but fluff orw/e might say no.
More weapon options for the stuff we do have, I'd like to see special ammo for heavy bolters and maybe a new SoB specific type of melta gun. I'd also like to see SoB heavy flamers go to immolation flamers (but 1d6) for troops.
Give penitent engines AoF and SoF and they'd be great.
A heavy infantry squad of some distinction would be nice, as would a few light vehicle options. New HQs are pretty much mandatory, a lieutenant equivalent, and someone focused on anti-psyker would be a good start.
A few named characters, I'd like to see Arabella come back (I think that's the name? The last of the SoB that got an audience with the emperor at the end of the age of apostasy.)
The thing they need most though is a unit with relevant damage that has some staying power. SoB right now's main weakness is that they don't handle turns 4+ very well. A unit with a large number of cheap wounds would rock. Like a T5 W6 Landspeeder size vehicle for bargain basement prices.
1: I'd like to see the Canoness given a 2+ armor save, or at least the option for the equivalent of artificer armor with an appropriate points cost. at 45 points base though, they are still a solid points effective HQ choice
Agreed, jump pack option would also be good - especially since they already make two plastic canoness with jump packs that they could sell separately!
2: One or two named canoness characters, I don't think we need one for each Order, but perhaps one or two for the most prominent orders.
Be good to have.
3: while Celestine is awesome, no complaints there, I think it would be nice to see the inclusion of an option to take a generic living saint.
I think its unlikely but would be good.
4: The sisters have a number of specific Orders, and I'd like to see them get the equivalent of chapter tactics. ((This is probably in the pipeline already or at least the intention to include it))
If/ When Sisters get a Coedex or are part of one this will be done - they already put in the [[order]] keyword and its part of the current design.
5: Another Troop option. the Battle Sister squad has the options to be very versatile, but I'd still like to see maybe a Novice Scout unit, or maybe even repentia moved to a troop option.
Novices turned up in Shadow War so they are now official - they are more like Space Wolves in that they wear power armour - so would just be BS4+ but otherwise no reason not to do this given the scale increase of Sororitas - there are now millions of them officially,
6: Speaking of Repentia: I really don't think they belong as an Elite option. Move them to either Troop or Fast Attack Please!
They are very specialist but so are Wyches so happy either way.
7:The Sororitas Rhino: is a 6+ invul really worth making it 40 points more expensive then the space marine one? I'd kinda like to see a points reduction here.
I had not noticed the difference but yeah I usually take Immolators
8: Heavy Armor: I think I'd rather see them gain something closer to the primaris Gravis armor, then terminator armor or emperor forbid centurions. So the sisters equivalent of an Aggressor Squad.
Good thinking - in fact anything but Centurions
9: A large transport: you can take sister squads in units up to 15, but the rhino and repressor only have transport capacity of 10. Immolators are fine as they are, being the sisters version of Razorbacks. but I'd like to see them with something similar to a Spartan.
Just given them Land Raiders as they phased them out for Marines Solves transport and fire support issues
10: A Heavy Tank: could be a multi part Kit with the large transport, but I think they could really use an equivalent to the landraider/repulsor tanks.
See above
11: I would be okay seeing them as part of a larger inquistion codex with inquisitors and maybe even the Deathwatch. Or even fully fleshed out in another Imperial Agents style codex.
12: I don't want to see Primaris Sisters.
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
1: I'd like jump pack canonnesses back. More wargear obviously but she just doesn't seem that useful right now and I'd like her to be more than a reroll bubble. I miss her and the Seraphim getting stuck in.
2:Generic living saints is a big yes from me.
3: If they get a stand-alone codex then Orders seem like a given unless GW decides that Acts Of Faith are enough.
4: I'm fine with just basic battle sisters. They're cheap and durable and do what needs done of troops.
5: I think Celestians should be retooled to be the heavy infantry. Give them a Super Faith save, close combat power weapons and their own free Act Of Faith only they can use so every turn they can fight twice.
6: I don't really want more tanks we have the ones we need, I'd rather see more foot troops or Ecclesiarchal themed units. If we need a big centerpiece model I'd rather it was like a giant pulpit surrounded by cherubim and servitors with a canonness on top yelling litanies. The lore is so full of potentially amazing units and designs that I think "a bigger tank with a bigger gun" is a waste.
7: I know Sisters are generally stuck with the Holy Trinity of melta, bolter and flames but I would like to see some different guns. Inferno sniper rifles? Flame Cannons that lob blobs of promethium that explode on impact? Different types of bolter ammo? There could be so much more variations than just the generic weapon types.
SoF psychic denial to not be useless. Id be happy if it was just a straight up 6+ nope to psychic powers like the 4+ nope stratagem..
With the seeming everywhereness of mortal wounds, i would love for SoF 6++ to be allowed to be taken against mortal wounds.
For me, my general issue with Sisters has not been whether or not they're powerful (as historically, they were "technically" middle of the road if they stuck to a particular monobuild).
For me, the issue is that Sisters of Battle are *boring*. The 6th edition codex highlighted this in particular as their army boiled down to:
HQ: Usually a Sisters Command Squad (no Canoness). So 5 Sisters, Meltaguns and Immolator.
Troops: 5 Sisters, 2 Meltaguns, Immolator.
Elites: 5 Sisters, 2 Meltaguns, Immolator
Fast Attack: 5 Sisters, 4(!) Meltaguns, Immolator
Heavy Support: 5 Sisters, 4 Heavy Flamers, Immolator. Or you could take an Exorcist too. Such variety.
IMO, the sisters need a general redesign so they can be more than just "EZ-Bake Delivery."
The first thing I started doing was contemplating their Troops: Mind, I homebrewed way before Primaris were a thing, so the whole "Imperial Eldar" had not existed as a concept then. Troopwise, they would have three options: Sisters Vigilant would be the "cheap and durable" option, equipped with Pistols and Slabshields and meant to serve as a mobile tarpit/LOS-blockers for the rest. Repentia would be made Troops (as they're shamed Sisters, rather than honored elites), and Dominions would be brought here as "Shoot and scoot" skirmishers rather than "Turn 1 Melta Delivery". So they'd lose Scout, but get something like "move after shoot", and some price-hikes to prevent their general spammability.
Elites would be the Celestians, which fill the "Tactical +1" role with better targeting (Sabbat-Pattern Helms), wargear loadout, and being the "gold standard" unit so to speak. That said, two other Ordos would be brought back from old White Dwarf Lore to exist as "specialists."
-The Orders Sabine fluffwise are those Sisters that accompany the Missonarius Galaxia to discover lost worlds and bring them back into the fold, by infiltrating primitive societies and introducing the Imperial Creed. This fluff could easily be expanded upon in a more sinister way, by also making them expert infiltrators/terrorists. They would be the Sisters that strap Meltabombs to their chests, wield Stalker Boltguns, and use other means of righteous terrorism to sow doubt in the minds of the unbelievers.
-Fluffwise, the Orders Madriga provide all-female choirs for hymnal devotions in favored temples of Arch-Cardinal Ignatio. This Order can be expanded on combat-wise as a "Choir" unit of a sort, choosing a single aura ability (radius dependent on number of models in the unit) each turn to bestow on nearby Sisters, or being able to Deny the Witch at full effect.
For Fast Attack, aside from Seraphim, Penitent Engines could be moved here (with the option to swap out the Heavy Flamers for Meltaguns), but the real option would be to add a new "Incinerator" variant of the Immolator, that sacrifices all crew capacity for better armor, speed, and a second turret.
And for Heavy Support, you have the Retributors and Exorcist (which could lose a few points of AP in exchange for being able to fire indirectly), but rounding off the list of Sisters options would be a "heavy" gundread of a sort. I imagine the Golgothan as a halfway hybrid between a Dreadknight and Karamazov's Throne of Judgement, the pilot willingly crucified upon the cockpit. It would have a Powerfist (or Flail) with an underslung weapon of choice, and a "Heavy" weapon such as an Avenger Boltgun, Inferno Cannon, or Melta Cannon. However, it would be less a "vanguard" (like the Dreadknight) and more of an "anchor" so to speak.
And then you could round off the HQs with "minor heroes." I have a soft spot for the idea of a "Sister Unrepentant," the Repentia equivalent of a Slayer King that after failing to find repentance in death decides that Frenzon is a fun recreational drug, two Eviscerators are better than one, and those Eviscerators need Exteriminators bolted onto them. Alternately, letting the Orders Pronatus (those Sisters charged with guarding, retreiving, and caring for sacred artifacts. Ex. "The Keeper of Saint Thor's Walking Cane" or so) have a hero that is a specialist in buffing and debuffing relics/bestowing temporary blessings on units would round off the whole faith thing.
Just because the Sisters are typecast as the "bolter/flamer/melta" faction doesn't mean they can't have additional variance as the faction of Faith and sacrifice.
Lilrys wrote: Isn't the Rhino only 3 points more expensive? or am i missing a faq somewhere?
Op is either exaggerating or still thinking a SM rhino cost 35pts like it did in 7th. Which it does not for anyone curios. Yeah it's about a 3pt difference.
And as for MJs suggestion:
The sisters have limited options because they only really have like 5 different models total, more models would mean more possible builds.
Slab shields and pistols is a fluff only loadout, it's the same problem crusaders have, "oh cool, I'm tough to kill!...but I don't really do anything so nvm I guess". If you wanted slab shields to work you'd have to attach them to something with some serious punch and using them to LoS...they'd have to be HUGE even to cover SoB units.
Instead of wanting Dominions to be good, you want them to be pointless. Move after shooting? Where? Why? Who would want that? We're not Tau, we wouldn't really gain anything from jum shoot jump. Basically all you're doing is taking the best unit in the codex and smothering it with a pillow until it gets enough brain damage to become the new pyrovore.
Seriously you want to make a good unit useless and the INCREASE the price of it? Get outta here with that.
Celestian suggestion was pretty vague but didn't really address what makes celestians bad.
Sabine isn't a bad idea. I'm neutral to the choir thing.
Penitent engine idea is fine. Incinerator immo is fine although you can't really increase the speed of an immolator. The thing moves 13-18" a turn as is and has a 25-30" threat range. Any faster and you'd need a bigger table.
Exorcist change is a bit bad tbh. You'd be making it less effective at something it already isn't very good at to give an ability it won't really use. Why does it have to lose ap to get indirect fire?
Dread idea is solid. No opinion on HQs.
Your 'new stuff' ideas are pretty good but you stay the hell away from my dominions.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/16 15:43:26
MagicJuggler wrote: For me, my general issue with Sisters has not been whether or not they're powerful (as historically, they were "technically" middle of the road if they stuck to a particular monobuild).
For me, the issue is that Sisters of Battle are *boring*. The 6th edition codex highlighted this in particular as their army boiled down to:
Spoiler:
HQ: Usually a Sisters Command Squad (no Canoness). So 5 Sisters, Meltaguns and Immolator.
Troops: 5 Sisters, 2 Meltaguns, Immolator.
Elites: 5 Sisters, 2 Meltaguns, Immolator
Fast Attack: 5 Sisters, 4(!) Meltaguns, Immolator
Heavy Support: 5 Sisters, 4 Heavy Flamers, Immolator. Or you could take an Exorcist too. Such variety.
IMO, the sisters need a general redesign so they can be more than just "EZ-Bake Delivery."
The first thing I started doing was contemplating their Troops: Mind, I homebrewed way before Primaris were a thing, so the whole "Imperial Eldar" had not existed as a concept then. Troopwise, they would have three options: Sisters Vigilant would be the "cheap and durable" option, equipped with Pistols and Slabshields and meant to serve as a mobile tarpit/LOS-blockers for the rest. Repentia would be made Troops (as they're shamed Sisters, rather than honored elites), and Dominions would be brought here as "Shoot and scoot" skirmishers rather than "Turn 1 Melta Delivery". So they'd lose Scout, but get something like "move after shoot", and some price-hikes to prevent their general spammability.
Elites would be the Celestians, which fill the "Tactical +1" role with better targeting (Sabbat-Pattern Helms), wargear loadout, and being the "gold standard" unit so to speak. That said, two other Ordos would be brought back from old White Dwarf Lore to exist as "specialists."
-The Orders Sabine fluffwise are those Sisters that accompany the Missonarius Galaxia to discover lost worlds and bring them back into the fold, by infiltrating primitive societies and introducing the Imperial Creed. This fluff could easily be expanded upon in a more sinister way, by also making them expert infiltrators/terrorists. They would be the Sisters that strap Meltabombs to their chests, wield Stalker Boltguns, and use other means of righteous terrorism to sow doubt in the minds of the unbelievers.
-Fluffwise, the Orders Madriga provide all-female choirs for hymnal devotions in favored temples of Arch-Cardinal Ignatio. This Order can be expanded on combat-wise as a "Choir" unit of a sort, choosing a single aura ability (radius dependent on number of models in the unit) each turn to bestow on nearby Sisters, or being able to Deny the Witch at full effect.
For Fast Attack, aside from Seraphim, Penitent Engines could be moved here (with the option to swap out the Heavy Flamers for Meltaguns), but the real option would be to add a new "Incinerator" variant of the Immolator, that sacrifices all crew capacity for better armor, speed, and a second turret.
And for Heavy Support, you have the Retributors and Exorcist (which could lose a few points of AP in exchange for being able to fire indirectly), but rounding off the list of Sisters options would be a "heavy" gundread of a sort. I imagine the Golgothan as a halfway hybrid between a Dreadknight and Karamazov's Throne of Judgement, the pilot willingly crucified upon the cockpit. It would have a Powerfist (or Flail) with an underslung weapon of choice, and a "Heavy" weapon such as an Avenger Boltgun, Inferno Cannon, or Melta Cannon. However, it would be less a "vanguard" (like the Dreadknight) and more of an "anchor" so to speak.
And then you could round off the HQs with "minor heroes." I have a soft spot for the idea of a "Sister Unrepentant," the Repentia equivalent of a Slayer King that after failing to find repentance in death decides that Frenzon is a fun recreational drug, two Eviscerators are better than one, and those Eviscerators need Exteriminators bolted onto them. Alternately, letting the Orders Pronatus (those Sisters charged with guarding, retreiving, and caring for sacred artifacts. Ex. "The Keeper of Saint Thor's Walking Cane" or so) have a hero that is a specialist in buffing and debuffing relics/bestowing temporary blessings on units would round off the whole faith thing.
Just because the Sisters are typecast as the "bolter/flamer/melta" faction doesn't mean they can't have additional variance as the faction of Faith and sacrifice
.
I have always liked the idea of a second Sisters troop squad armed with protectiva shields. Either mauls or pistols would be okay, perhaps a combination of hand flamers, pistols and mauls.
I disagree that Sisters were ever boring. They have some very characterful units, sadly those are the ones that see the table top less because they usually are over costed or have conflucting rules.
Repentia are a unit begging to be Martyrs. They should get the ability to trigger Martyrdom when the unit is destroyed. They cost too much for the Eviscerator nerf they got in 8ed. I would be happy with either a point drop per model or if they made their Eviscerator match the Canoness version.
PenEngines could use a shooty option. Remove the buzzsaw blades and heavy flamers then give them the standard Immolator weapons options. Letting them shoot twice on a 4+ would be hilarious.
Celestians need a re-think. I would say giving them full wargear options for each model would be a great unit to tailor your needs. Give the unit the ability to trigger Martyrdom and the chance to trigger their own AoF.
-2x flamer
-2x heavy Flamer
-2x melta
-2x multimelta
-2x heavy Bolter
2x storm bolter
-power sword, power mail, hand flamer, inferno pistol, condemnor for building canoness/superior/command squads
2) dual kit with a penitent engine and a ranged version packing flame rockets that work similarly to spore mines, blasting the area between the engine and its target with dangerous terrain.
3) dual kit exorcist and additional medium tank option packing 2 melta cannons (same as ig devil dog)
4) a dual specialist kit with repentia and arco-flagellants
5) a dueal specialist kit with seraphim and an all melee version with spears that gain a bonus on the charge
5 kits, that's all I ask out of GW for sisters. Genestealer cult and Harlequins would be comparable releases.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
Lilrys wrote: Isn't the Rhino only 3 points more expensive? or am i missing a faq somewhere?
Op is either exaggerating or still thinking a SM rhino cost 35pts like it did in 7th. Which it does not for anyone curios. Yeah it's about a 3pt difference.
And as for MJs suggestion:
The sisters have limited options because they only really have like 5 different models total, more models would mean more possible builds.
Slab shields and pistols is a fluff only loadout, it's the same problem crusaders have, "oh cool, I'm tough to kill!...but I don't really do anything so nvm I guess". If you wanted slab shields to work you'd have to attach them to something with some serious punch and using them to LoS...they'd have to be HUGE even to cover SoB units.
Instead of wanting Dominions to be good, you want them to be pointless. Move after shooting? Where? Why? Who would want that? We're not Tau, we wouldn't really gain anything from jum shoot jump. Basically all you're doing is taking the best unit in the codex and smothering it with a pillow until it gets enough brain damage to become the new pyrovore.
Seriously you want to make a good unit useless and the INCREASE the price of it? Get outta here with that.
Celestian suggestion was pretty vague but didn't really address what makes celestians bad.
Sabine isn't a bad idea. I'm neutral to the choir thing.
Penitent engine idea is fine. Incinerator immo is fine although you can't really increase the speed of an immolator. The thing moves 13-18" a turn as is and has a 25-30" threat range. Any faster and you'd need a bigger table.
Exorcist change is a bit bad tbh. You'd be making it less effective at something it already isn't very good at to give an ability it won't really use. Why does it have to lose ap to get indirect fire?
Dread idea is solid. No opinion on HQs.
Your 'new stuff' ideas are pretty good but you stay the hell away from my dominions.
The slabshields would in theory be large enough to be a TLOS-blocker at the infantry-scale. A cheap "moving wall" so to speak.
I get where you're coming from with the Dominions. They have been a shining unit for the Sisters since 5th edition. Honestly, I'm not 100% on the whole Dominions idea. It would in theory combo with Acts of Faith/Martyrdom for...shenanigans. I like shenanigans.
The Celestian idea is open-ended because I honestly haven't thought too much about the specifics yet.
Historically, the Exorcist is S8 AP 1, identical to most Sister Weapons except trading Armorbane for 1 -> D6 shots and extra range. The Exorcist has had issues in the past due to "one-gun syndrome" but 8th fixed that part. "Extra shots" in favor of less raw damage makes it more versatile, and does make the armory a little more...well-rounded?
YMMV, point being I think there's still room for Sisters to be distinctly Sisters without having to make them "Female Guardmarines" or without trying to overemphasize the non-sister parts of the Ministorium, and the Vigilant/Incinerator/Golgothan are the only truly "OC" content; the Orders Sabine/Pronatus/Madriga have all been mentioned in 40k lore before with these specific functions. (Others like the Planxilium or Vespila being even more out of the scope of an actual battle, as cool as a Vespila forensics analyst would be in the RPGs).
Automatically Appended Next Post:
dracpanzer wrote: I have always liked the idea of a second Sisters troop squad armed with protectiva shields. Either mauls or pistols would be okay, perhaps a combination of hand flamers, pistols and mauls.
I disagree that Sisters were ever boring. They have some very characterful units, sadly those are the ones that see the table top less because they usually are over costed or have conflucting rules.
Repentia are a unit begging to be Martyrs. They should get the ability to trigger Martyrdom when the unit is destroyed. They cost too much for the Eviscerator nerf they got in 8ed. I would be happy with either a point drop per model or if they made their Eviscerator match the Canoness version.
PenEngines could use a shooty option. Remove the buzzsaw blades and heavy flamers then give them the standard Immolator weapons options. Letting them shoot twice on a 4+ would be hilarious.
Celestians need a re-think. I would say giving them full wargear options for each model would be a great unit to tailor your needs. Give the unit the ability to trigger Martyrdom and the chance to trigger their own AoF.
Somehow I think Penitent Engines becoming a "gun platform" would defeat their point. The rest seem ok so far IMO.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/12/16 18:10:00
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
Otherwise, I'm pretty satisfied with where we are. I would have also said "a AA unit" last edition, but now flyers aren't quite so much of a problem.
I would also change the Exorcist to T7 with d6 damage
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/12/16 20:45:01
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
Plastic models. Actual. Multipart. Plastic. Models. Like every other faction including the ones that are 10 minutes old have, and (baring the 10 minuters) have had for decades.
Free from GW's tyranny and the hobby is looking better for it
DR:90-S++G+++M++B++I+Pww205++D++A+++/sWD146R++T(T)D+
master of ordinance wrote: Plastic models. Actual. Multipart. Plastic. Models. Like every other faction including the ones that are 10 minutes old have, and (baring the 10 minuters) have had for decades.
Has GW put out anything new recently that was not in plastic? They seem to have gone 100% plastic, even for stuff that by rights (character models) gone in pewter/resin.
Ralis wrote: 1: I'd like to see the Canoness given a 2+ armor save, or at least the option for the equivalent of artificer armor with an appropriate points cost. at 45 points base though, they are still a solid points effective HQ choice
The Ecclesiarchy has money. Lots of it. They are drowning in it. Celestians and above Sisters should come with Artificier armor standard.
Ralis wrote: 3: while Celestine is awesome, no complaints there, I think it would be nice to see the inclusion of an option to take a generic living saint.
This! Customizable Living Saint where you chose which Virtues you want to use or something.
Ralis wrote: 4: The sisters have a number of specific Orders, and I'd like to see them get the equivalent of chapter tactics. ((This is probably in the pipeline already or at least the intention to include it))
On the pipeline but unnecessary imo. Sisters are certainly the one organization of the Imperium with the less diversity and the more homogenization.
Ralis wrote: 5: Another Troop option. the Battle Sister squad has the options to be very versatile, but I'd still like to see maybe a Novice Scout unit, or maybe even repentia moved to a troop option.
Or Frateris Militia!
Ralis wrote: 11: I would be okay seeing them as part of a larger inquistion codex with inquisitors and maybe even the Deathwatch. Or even fully fleshed out in another Imperial Agents style codex.
Please no.
Ralis wrote: 12: I don't want to see Primaris Sisters.
I don't want to see Primaris.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
master of ordinance wrote: Plastic models. Actual. Multipart. Plastic. Models. Like every other faction including the ones that are 10 minutes old have, and (baring the 10 minuters) have had for decades.
Has GW put out anything new recently that was not in plastic? They seem to have gone 100% plastic, even for stuff that by rights (character models) gone in pewter/resin.
Exactly my point. GW's entire line is plastic except the Sisters of Battle range which is still 100% original 23 year old metal castings. Every single other range is 100% plastic and has been updated at least once within the last 18 years, infact the Marines line has been updated at least once every year but the Sisters still have not seen an update.
GW doesnt update them because they dont sell but I ask you this:
who has £55+ to spend on a single monopose metal 10 man unit that's cast is over 20 years old?!. Second hand Sisters sell. Sister Substitutes sell. Recast Sisters sell. NIB Sisters from GW dont sell because noone in this day of austerity has £220+ to drop on four basic infantry units, nor the other £600+ you will need for characters, transports and support/fast attack/elite units.
Free from GW's tyranny and the hobby is looking better for it
DR:90-S++G+++M++B++I+Pww205++D++A+++/sWD146R++T(T)D+
master of ordinance wrote: Plastic models. Actual. Multipart. Plastic. Models. Like every other faction including the ones that are 10 minutes old have, and (baring the 10 minuters) have had for decades.
Has GW put out anything new recently that was not in plastic? They seem to have gone 100% plastic, even for stuff that by rights (character models) gone in pewter/resin.
Exactly my point. GW's entire line is plastic except the Sisters of Battle range which is still 100% original 23 year old metal castings.
That's blatantly false. Most Eldar Aspects, many characters in 40k and AoS and a fair few other units are in finecast if not metal still.
Sisters also get updates with new Codexes and Celestine which is better than my Corsairs got.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/17 19:55:49
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
Well, what sisters really need is some long range firepower besides the exorcist. Yes it really isn't their theme, but they need a little more variety if they are going to be a full army, and that's a fairly major hole.
master of ordinance wrote: Plastic models. Actual. Multipart. Plastic. Models. Like every other faction including the ones that are 10 minutes old have, and (baring the 10 minuters) have had for decades.
Has GW put out anything new recently that was not in plastic? They seem to have gone 100% plastic, even for stuff that by rights (character models) gone in pewter/resin.
Exactly my point. GW's entire line is plastic except the Sisters of Battle range which is still 100% original 23 year old metal castings.
That's blatantly false. Most Eldar Aspects, many characters in 40k and AoS and a fair few other units are in finecast if not metal still.
Sisters also get updates with new Codexes and Celestine which is better than my Corsairs got.
Don't forget all the old IG regiments. Those were recently released again in metal.
SilverAlien wrote:Well, what sisters really need is some long range firepower besides the exorcist. Yes it really isn't their theme, but they need a little more variety if they are going to be a full army, and that's a fairly major hole.
Give the Exorcist a few buffs, base damage, volume of fire, and it could become a nice source of S8 AP-4 shots. Parked next to some HB Rets, thats all Sisters could ask for. Wasn't long ago and you were hard pressed to find Sisters players who weren't fielding them regularly and in large quantity. Its their lack of real killing power in the 8ed index that has taken the Exorcist from most lists.
master of ordinance wrote: Plastic models. Actual. Multipart. Plastic. Models. Like every other faction including the ones that are 10 minutes old have, and (baring the 10 minuters) have had for decades.
Has GW put out anything new recently that was not in plastic? They seem to have gone 100% plastic, even for stuff that by rights (character models) gone in pewter/resin.
Exactly my point. GW's entire line is plastic except the Sisters of Battle range which is still 100% original 23 year old metal castings. Every single other range is 100% plastic and has been updated at least once within the last 18 years, infact the Marines line has been updated at least once every year but the Sisters still have not seen an update.
GW doesnt update them because they dont sell but I ask you this:
who has £55+ to spend on a single monopose metal 10 man unit that's cast is over 20 years old?!. Second hand Sisters sell. Sister Substitutes sell. Recast Sisters sell. NIB Sisters from GW dont sell because noone in this day of austerity has £220+ to drop on four basic infantry units, nor the other £600+ you will need for characters, transports and support/fast attack/elite units.
SoB is a dead line though. Has been for years. The fanbase will have to learn to accept that at some point this decade.
Solves transport and fire support issues
