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2017/12/20 05:21:12
Subject: Chronicle X Kickstarter by Archon Studios
Archon Studios have crowd funded another boardgame already. I'm not sure what this means for their Empire of Men KS, but I hope they deliver because I really like the designs.
It's already funded and hit a bunch of stretch goals. I'm surprised no one has posted about it yet.
I would appreciate help keeping this thread updated since it takes fifteen minutes to copy one image from the KS page on this ferkakte Apple product.
Archon are the production arm of Prodos and are run by the same people. They moved to the Archon name for Kickstarters after the release of Aliens vs Preditor.
2017/12/20 10:48:00
Subject: Chronicle X Kickstarter by Archon Studios
Aeneades wrote: Archon are the production arm of Prodos and are run by the same people. They moved to the Archon name for Kickstarters after the release of Aliens vs Preditor.
Thanks for the heads-up. Fool me once, not twice...
2017/12/20 10:54:41
Subject: Re:Chronicle X Kickstarter by Archon Studios
The base package was the game (board + rules), and 28 minis (6 heros, and 22 monsters, some of which are triples), which seemed like a good deal.
But the way I understand it, you also get all the stretch goals for free. That's 21 more minis (some of which are pretty big), cards to play them, and foam inserts. That's seems way too good.
I understand from the above posts that they had issues with the company before. Can someone elaborate? And didn't KS get involved at some point?
2017/12/20 11:39:24
Subject: Re:Chronicle X Kickstarter by Archon Studios
fresus wrote: The base package was the game (board + rules), and 28 minis (6 heros, and 22 monsters, some of which are triples), which seemed like a good deal.
But the way I understand it, you also get all the stretch goals for free. That's 21 more minis (some of which are pretty big), cards to play them, and foam inserts. That's seems way too good.
I understand from the above posts that they had issues with the company before. Can someone elaborate? And didn't KS get involved at some point?
Feel free to read the AvP thread in the sci fi subforum for details.
Suffice to say I won’t be pledging on this and would suggest that Archon/Prodos projects are inherently riskier than most.
"The Omnissiah is my Moderati"
2017/12/20 16:06:38
Subject: Re:Chronicle X Kickstarter by Archon Studios
I've pledged for most of the "Archon" products, as opposed to the Prodos brand, and have gotten them all on time. Direct communication can be slow at times, but they've gotten back to me every time I've contacted them, and I'd had some issues with a pledge that they did manage to sort out. Whether my case is an anomaly or the norm remains to be seen.
Vanguard of War stretch goals just showed up last weekend in fact, and those bits really look to mix the game up significantly now.
Considering how much this has already pulled in, plus the fact that they are manufacturing most of this themselves, this should really bring in a lot of money.
I hope some of the funds can go to appease those that still have outstanding AvP pledges. It's been mentioned in the comments that people have been contacting Prodos recently and are supposed to be getting things sorted still, so it may be worth contacting them (again) and seeing if they can get that dealt with.
I keep hoping for a super 80s style ninja personally.
Poorly lit photos of my ever- growing collection of completely unrelated models!
Yeah, I saw that the usual youtube pay to promote channels like BOW and Spikey Bits were carnival barking for Prodos' newest offering last week (with no mention yet again of AVP still having issues). There are some nice sculpts there that I could use for RPGs but I have a personal policy to not reward companies with money that continue to disregard their previous customers regardless of whether or not I was one of them or how many times they change their name to avoid the consequences. YMMV. It's already at $280k from looking now so my funding or lack thereof won't matter regardless.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and for anyone who thinks that Prodos/Archon are actually sorry about what they pulled and continue to pull with AVP, they're instead thumbing their noses at AVP backers with the $70k cigar smoking bionic arm buzz cut muscleman stretch goal which is basically a parody of Dutch Schaefer, Arnold's character, from the AVP arcade game and kickstarter.
Spoiler:
It was a stretch goal that iirc was funded, a mini was created,
and that backers never got nor is available on their webstore (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on that backer part since there is alot of variability depending on the luck of the draw as to what each backer got or didn't get). Stay classy, Prodos/Archon...
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/12/20 16:58:24
2017/12/20 17:12:47
Subject: Chronicle X Kickstarter by Archon Studios
Every time I contact them regarding AvP fulfillment I get no reply, no matter what their contact email of the month is. Even their “promotion” to exchange owed goods for in stock product was met with silence, so when people like BoW try to claim Prodos is still slowly fulfilling or allowing swaps I just have to shake my head...
"The Omnissiah is my Moderati"
2017/12/20 17:37:28
Subject: Chronicle X Kickstarter by Archon Studios
Oh, and for anyone who thinks that Prodos/Archon are actually sorry about what they pulled and continue to pull with AVP, they're instead thumbing their noses at AVP backers with the $70k cigar smoking bionic arm buzz cut muscleman stretch goal which is basically a parody of Dutch Schaefer, Arnold's character, from the AVP arcade game and kickstarter.
Spoiler:
It was a stretch goal that iirc was funded, a mini was created,
and that backers never got nor is available on their webstore (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on that backer part since there is alot of variability depending on the luck of the draw as to what each backer got or didn't get). Stay classy, Prodos/Archon...
Not defending Produs but I believe I read somewhere that there was a licensing issue with producing models based on characters from the game as they believed it was covered by the licence but wasn’t.
2017/12/20 17:41:27
Subject: Chronicle X Kickstarter by Archon Studios
Not defending Produs but I believe I read somewhere that there was a licensing issue with producing models based on characters from the game as they believed it was covered by the licence but wasn’t.
It would be great if we could refer to the official KS page to check it but Prodos pulled down their own KS page under a false intellectual property claim (which they later admitted to because there was no way to take off or alter inconvienent information there unlike facebook or their webpage). If what you say is/was the case, what do you think the chances are of AVP backers who funded and bought the official AVP smoking tank top wearing buzz cut sporting bionic arm wielding super soldier will be sent the totally unrelated newly shown cigar smoking tank top wearing buzz cut sporting bionic arm wielding super soldier as a free "unrelated" gift/mea culpa in addition to remaining parts of pledges still owed?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/12/20 17:55:36
2017/12/20 17:51:15
Subject: Chronicle X Kickstarter by Archon Studios
Aeneades 746991 9752121 wrote:Not defending Prodos but I believe I read somewhere that there was a licensing issue with producing models based on characters from the game as they believed it was covered by the license but wasn’t.
That is the response that quite a few miniatures status was. They sculpted them based on the concept art, created them and then Fox didn't approve them or denied them. The sculpts then get recycled for other things since they aren't an officially licensed piece it was created from. This, unfortunately, tends to happen with things that are "new" and not part of the canon. There are multiple reasons that happen in licensing agreements like this. I am not saying that is what happened, that is what they stated. I have experience from dealing with that very thing though with other projects, unfortunately.
2017/12/20 17:52:42
Subject: Chronicle X Kickstarter by Archon Studios
Elbows wrote: It boggles my mind this company/entity is still afloat...incredible.
You only need to look at this thread and the kickstarter comments to see why. As long as some current customers don't get screwed over, it's OK to reward Prodos for continuing to not fulfill their past obligations (whether at all or in a timely fashion depending on the backer). There is very little accountability in the gaming community as long as new blood is promised their precioussssss....
2017/12/20 18:21:21
Subject: Chronicle X Kickstarter by Archon Studios
Elbows wrote: It boggles my mind this company/entity is still afloat...incredible.
You only need to look at this thread and the kickstarter comments to see why. As long as some current customers don't get screwed over, it's OK to reward Prodos for continuing to not fulfill their past obligations (whether at all or in a timely fashion depending on the backer). There is very little accountability in the gaming community as long as new blood is promised their precioussssss.
There is some truth in that. The issue is that only 250 have outstanding orders or parts of orders. That is only 10% of the backers who didn't receive their stuff and in most things that is still considered an "A". That isn't an excuse but an accurate representation of retail market. It is why when some product reviewed marked as 2 or 3 stars still continue to get orders. This isn't related just to this market or this product but is representative of how sales in general happen.
With Fox no longer owning things, it will be interesting to see if it gets renewed and if other changes happen. I guess it is one way to finally see if the roadblocks have truly been a "Fox approval" issue or not.
warboss wrote: It would be great if we could refer to the official KS page to check it but Prodos pulled down their own KS page under a false intellectual property claim (which they later admitted to because there was no way to take off or alter inconvenient information there unlike facebook or their webpage). If what you say is/was the case, what do you think the chances are of AVP backers who funded and bought the first cigar smoking tank top wearing buzz cut sporting bionic arm wielding super soldier will get the newly shown tank top wearing buzz cut sporting bionic arm wielding super soldier as a replacement in addition to other parts of pledges still owed?
The IP takedown of the Kickstarter page, we know now is actually typical for Kickstarter. Since AvP, there have been multiple pages when something changes or they need it disabled that the only option to turn off a page is the IP conflict page. That was also in a statement from Kickstarter. That doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't taken down because of an IP Dispute, but that is their official "request has been made to disable page".
As for the AvP pledges getting the miniature.... that is an interesting approach. I don't see why they wouldn't substitute current product. They have already stated they will exchange any outstanding orders for equivialent other products in their webstore previously. I don't see why this wouldn't necessarily do the same. Although I don't recall seeing it in the PM but then again I haven't accessed it for a couple years I think now. I'm still going through the archives to see where it was on the stretch goals.
2017/12/20 19:12:03
Subject: Chronicle X Kickstarter by Archon Studios
Please give me a valid email contact for a Prodos employee that will even respond to my request to substitute product. They seem to have a new one every month, and none of them reply to me.
"The Omnissiah is my Moderati"
2017/12/20 19:49:48
Subject: Chronicle X Kickstarter by Archon Studios
Nostromodamus wrote: Please give me a valid email contact for a Prodos employee that will even respond to my request to substitute product. They seem to have a new one every month, and none of them reply to me.
I am not sure if it is valid, it has been quite a few months since I've had any email exchange with them, but the last emails I have for them are:
You may also try Facebook messaging Jason Ropp who runs the AVP Wargamer and seems to have frequent contact with a reseller/distributor or something like that.
2017/12/20 20:22:01
Subject: Chronicle X Kickstarter by Archon Studios
(you've probably tried this, but it's always possible there's some sort of conflict between your email/IP and Prodos so none of the messages actually get there so trying an email from a different address is worth a go)
2017/12/20 20:44:34
Subject: Chronicle X Kickstarter by Archon Studios
Elbows wrote: It boggles my mind this company/entity is still afloat...incredible.
You only need to look at this thread and the kickstarter comments to see why. As long as some current customers don't get screwed over, it's OK to reward Prodos for continuing to not fulfill their past obligations (whether at all or in a timely fashion depending on the backer). There is very little accountability in the gaming community as long as new blood is promised their precioussssss.
There is some truth in that. The issue is that only 250 have outstanding orders or parts of orders. That is only 10% of the backers who didn't receive their stuff and in most things that is still considered an "A". That isn't an excuse but an accurate representation of retail market. It is why when some product reviewed marked as 2 or 3 stars still continue to get orders. This isn't related just to this market or this product but is representative of how sales in general happen.
With Fox no longer owning things, it will be interesting to see if it gets renewed and if other changes happen. I guess it is one way to finally see if the roadblocks have truly been a "Fox approval" issue or not.
warboss wrote: It would be great if we could refer to the official KS page to check it but Prodos pulled down their own KS page under a false intellectual property claim (which they later admitted to because there was no way to take off or alter inconvenient information there unlike facebook or their webpage). If what you say is/was the case, what do you think the chances are of AVP backers who funded and bought the first cigar smoking tank top wearing buzz cut sporting bionic arm wielding super soldier will get the newly shown tank top wearing buzz cut sporting bionic arm wielding super soldier as a replacement in addition to other parts of pledges still owed?
The IP takedown of the Kickstarter page, we know now is actually typical for Kickstarter. Since AvP, there have been multiple pages when something changes or they need it disabled that the only option to turn off a page is the IP conflict page. That was also in a statement from Kickstarter. That doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't taken down because of an IP Dispute, but that is their official "request has been made to disable page".
As for the AvP pledges getting the miniature.... that is an interesting approach. I don't see why they wouldn't substitute current product. They have already stated they will exchange any outstanding orders for equivialent other products in their webstore previously. I don't see why this wouldn't necessarily do the same. Although I don't recall seeing it in the PM but then again I haven't accessed it for a couple years I think now. I'm still going through the archives to see where it was on the stretch goals.
Where did you get the 250 outstanding figure from dark severance?
Well, considering AVP is the only KS Prodos/Archon hasn't fully delivered on, and as Archon they've been on time every time, I'd hardly call it the Titanic.
It seems Warzone is once again left cold and forgotten, despite getting delivered and supported for a few years after the Kickstarter campaign.
Sadly it seems they haven't done much with it since, having moved into their own properties, but new releases do seem to continue trickling out, like the death tractors...
Also the new pledge level is up that includes all the add ons, of which there will supposedly be no more.
Rules are going to be shared tomorrow as well. An alpha seems to have been leaked out into the wild for those who want an early look....
Poorly lit photos of my ever- growing collection of completely unrelated models!
Nostromodamus wrote: Please give me a valid email contact for a Prodos employee that will even respond to my request to substitute product. They seem to have a new one every month, and none of them reply to me.
I am not sure if it is valid, it has been quite a few months since I've had any email exchange with them, but the last emails I have for them are:
You may also try Facebook messaging Jason Ropp who runs the AVP Wargamer and seems to have frequent contact with a reseller/distributor or something like that.
Another email to try (presuming she still works for Prodos...)
Isabelle sorted my exchange within hours of emailing and sent my remaining pledge items out (I swapped the 'multi-pose' marines for the 2nd edition upgrade kit - both £15)
Neither the Olympic nor the Britannic hit an iceberg. But the Titanic did.
It's not even just that Prodos failed to deliver on time. It's the pattern of lying to and demeaning their KS backers that makes supporting them highly risky, to say the least.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/20 22:31:58
JoeRugby wrote: Where did you get the 250 outstanding figure from dark severance?
Combination from their reports, combined with statements from Ninja Division, cross-references with the various threads on the internet (Facebook, Dakka, boardgame geek, blogs, etc) then taking the accountable unique numbers and multiplying it by 20% (rule of 80/20). You can also then compare those numbers with the people who have stated they have received their pledge, subtract out from known backer quantity. If there was more than that, there would be a lot more vocal negatives instead of the same recycled ones. There were also a couple petitions for those that didn't receive product to do some sort of class action lawsuit.
I'll have to see if I still have the spreadsheet with the data tracking that I did during LOAD when Archon was first mentioned if I recall. Most of that was company research to determine risks vs rewards of using them and their Unicast system for some projects were doing at that time. Overall the decision was not to use them for Unicast because of the bad press, even though we'd be dealing with Archon. There was also some issues with delayed communications that factored into that decision. They were determined too risky to do business with at that time for a newer company. And ultimately we made different decisions, going a different route which worked out for the best. We now have our own Unicast answer that will work out much better.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/21 00:37:32
