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 Kalamadea wrote:
But yeah, the Primaris marines are so much better than regular marines it makes me a little sad that they aren't completely replacing the entire line.

Pretty much how I feel. If they'd been introduced as just normal Space Marines in a new Mark of power armour, it could fix some of the more ridiculous aspects of both lines (eg. Aggressors instead of Centurions, larger Assault Marines instead of goofy Inceptors, etc). There'd also be no need for the awful-at-best Primaris fluff to justify their existence.

It would also be something of a middle ground for long-time Space Marine players who may feel hardly done by. If the change is purely aesthetic, then all of their older miniatures are still perfectly viable in game, so they won't be under any obligation to fork out any more money. Most armies, including Marines, have undergone radical changes in size and scale since the beginning; it'd hardly be a uniquely unfair treatment.

I prefer the older helmet designs, with snout and grille. Luckily however, helmets are interchangeable and apart from the helmet the Primaris are a step up in every regard. I just wish GW hadn't made them into a completely separate thing from normal Marines. It would have been better if it had just been a new mark of armour.

 Necros wrote:
I like the Primaris Marines a lot. I think they are some of the best sculpts GW has ever done and shows they are really pushing the boundaries of how you make plastic minis. I do wish they were more posable though.

Best sculpts and pushing the boundaries of how to make plastic figures...? Yet they don't do something most 10 year old plastic models can. Ah well...

I don't dislike the models. Enlarging the scale for marines means getting more accurate, that is if they weren't enlarging everything else they make too. :-(

I hate Primaris Marines too. The lore surrounding them is pretty bad and makes them out to be mary sues. I also find the models to be incredibly bland in both their rules and their looks. I love how sets like the blood angel tactical set, death company, and sanguinary guard sets look and how I can mix and match armor pieces and weapons between them and other marine sets to make a lot of unique and cool looking models for my army. If they made more customizable primaris sets with all the bling, a variety of armor marks, and gave them better rules and wargear options I would be alot more open to them. Also the inceptors, aggressors, and reavers look silly.

 Lance845 wrote:
Mark IV helmets are the best helmets.

This is true, but Mark X are quite similar. If I do any Salamanders Primaris, I'll give them MkIV helmets, because everything Salamanders gets MkIV helmets in my universe.

I detest their fluff. Even by GW standards, it's a complete sh*tstorm, with Cawl being who and what he is, the perfection of the primaris and the way guiliman handles it. Twice he just swooped in, saved the day and forces primaris down the throat of a first founding chapter even fully ignoring his own codex.

The worst part is that even the dark angels sayeing "Yes sir, please sir", with the writer(s) fully ignoring how such a chapter would react naturally. Also, having 95ish% acceptance rate among chapters is absurd, everyone just rolls over? suddenly secretive/(semi-)paranoid warrior monks are comepletely ok with 'beter' strangers forced upon them?

I can understand that GW needs to earn money, but I'm just not ok with the fluff. Also, I'm expecting that GW will eventually replace every marine kit with primaris, If I still played loyalist marines, I wouldn't like it if I'd have to replace my entire collection with primaris/

I don't really mind the models, they aren't that great (how are the MK X? where's MK IX?) but that's subjective, and there are plenty of other models gw produces that I don't like, so not a problem for me.

I don't have any problems with the models, although I do prefer the standard marines. What irks me is that GW is constantly doing this "marines but better" thing.

Their scale makes them look out of place in my army, so it's a no go for me. The basic Intercessors look nice, but since they don't match up aesthetically with my normal guys, and aren't compelling as units, I'll pass.

Not too familiar with the fluff, but from what I do know, I find it awkward.

NuMarines are terrible soldiers. They are simply not cost effective. That is my main concern.

Not to mention, they in and out of fluff very inflexible when it comes to tactics... their weapon "options" are just terrible, that just isn't the Imperial way...

I also don't like their current fluff.

I much prefer the more gothic marines of the past, and the vader esque masks the basic tactical marines have. I prefer the scale and size of the primaris but they are too sleek and clean...they feel very bland.

KTG17 wrote:
I really think their designs are a step backwards. Size wise, I get it. Marines are much taller than the average human and their models might as well reflect it, but the actual designs and troop types are terrible. And the skull face masks for the Reivers are really out of place, especially on guys like the Ultramarines. And the normal masks are lame too. Granted I grew up with the earliest editions of 40k, so I know we've had some silly designs in the past, but I really think the look and feel of Marines really peaked in 6th-7th.

I have heard rumors that eventually the old marines will be phased out, so maybe some of what we've had in the 'normal' marines will creep into the new ones, but honestly, I have zero interest in buying any, and its kept me from buying any of the starter sets, which I normally love to do.

* Maybe I should have posted this in the 40k forum...

IMHO primaris models are the ugliest ones ever released by GW, along with guilliman and the deathguard. So, no, you're not the only one that hates that stuff

I like both but I definitely would not replace my existing space marine army with Primaris. I don't really consider them a replacement for regular Astartes but a separate subfaction. Primaris just lack the options, kitbashibility, posing options and selection of ktis regular marines have. I don't even mind the somewhat weird proportions regular astartes have. I consider regular Astartes just plain better kits and I think that's why they continue to sell well.

Regardless I will collect Primaris because for what they are they are quite nice. A different breed of marines rather than a replacement.

But yes Inceptors are fugly and it's an example of GW taking an awesome concept and executing it horribly. And I'm not the biggest fan of Gravis Armor etiher. They make the marines look a little too... rotund.

 TheCustomLime wrote:

A different breed of marines rather than a replacement.

I agree, IMHO they're like grey knights compared to sisters of battle. Despite any new SoB release that army is still on the GW store, with its rules. I'd be ok with marines getting no new kits but staying in the store and the rules. After all there are tons of units and characters, other than an entire faction, which now have 25+ years and still part of the game. I don't really see why SM should be replaced by primaris.

trindaros wrote:
I detest their fluff. Even by GW standards, it's a complete sh*tstorm, with Cawl being who and what he is, the perfection of the primaris and the way guiliman handles it. Twice he just swooped in, saved the day and forces primaris down the throat of a first founding chapter even fully ignoring his own codex.

The worst part is that even the dark angels sayeing "Yes sir, please sir", with the writer(s) fully ignoring how such a chapter would react naturally. Also, having 95ish% acceptance rate among chapters is absurd, everyone just rolls over? suddenly secretive/(semi-)paranoid warrior monks are comepletely ok with 'beter' strangers forced upon them?

I can understand that GW needs to earn money, but I'm just not ok with the fluff. Also, I'm expecting that GW will eventually replace every marine kit with primaris, If I still played loyalist marines, I wouldn't like it if I'd have to replace my entire collection with primaris/

I don't really mind the models, they aren't that great (how are the MK X? where's MK IX?) but that's subjective, and there are plenty of other models gw produces that I don't like, so not a problem for me.

I felt the justification given in the Dark Angels codex is pretty strong to be honest.

They've just had a massive chaos assault directly on the rock that they are left reeling from. The chapter is somewhat broken until it has time to rebuild and regroup. Azrael call a summit of all the Unforgiven, and in his haste to gather the Legion successors suffer heavy losses, some implied to be lost entirely while crossing the rift.

This is the context of Guilliman swaggering up to the Rock with a MASSIVE army.

The Dark Angels are looking extra suspicious as they are having their secret gathering of the Legion. Azrael is stated consider opening fire on the fleet, fearing that Guilliman has in the wake of Luther's escape discovered the secrets of the chapter. But know they would all be destroyed if they try to fight. Even with the successors gathered, they cannot stand a chance to the main fleet of the Lord Commander of the Imperium, it would purely be suicide.

So he invites Guilliman in, praying that the secret is still safe.

To Azrael's gigantic relief, Guilliman knows nothing! He simply bring reinforcements. Of course Azrael is wary, but he wants Guilliman gone immediately. He agrees to take in the Primaris (instructing the Inner Circle to immediately begin screening, monitoring and indoctrinating them.

He bids the Lord Commander safe travels and rushes him out the door.

7th ed marines looked dumb. The masks made them look like they were constantly mouthbreathing and their proportions were hilarious. Primaris are better in pretty much all regards.

ERJAK wrote:
7th ed marines looked dumb. The masks made them look like they were constantly mouthbreathing and their proportions were hilarious. Primaris are better in pretty much all regards.

To be honest the Angry-Darth Vader helmet is my third favourite helmet (Behind the Corvus pattern one as the second and the MK2 cyclopean one ,This one, as my favourite one )

But I agree with the rest. What I don't understand is people complaining about the Primaris Helmet. Don't people loved the MKIV ones? They are the same.

My only problem with the primaris models is the lack of variety. Old kits have all sort of subtle differences, even between armours of the same mark, primaris are pretty much identical. I understand why this is from the fluff perspective, but it is still a bit boring. But I've been adding some flavour with parts from old kits, so in the end it is all good.

 Crimson wrote:
My only problem with the primaris models is the lack of variety. Old kits have all sort of subtle differences, even between armours of the same mark, primaris are pretty much identical. I understand why this is from the fluff perspective, but it is still a bit boring. But I've been adding some flavour with parts from old kits, so in the end it is all good.

This is the first wave of releases to be fair. I'd expect more variety both in sculpts and wargear as time goes on.

You are not alone in the Primaris Scale Creep Ultrasmurf Marines hate

The fluff is so badly done.

The models are gorgeous and are how Marines should look.

They should have just released the line as the new space marine models, with the same rules as the old, said "you can use your old models or build a new army with the new ones, it's up to you." Just like they did with plague marines.

Like the models, hate the fluff with a passion


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Stux wrote:

trindaros wrote:
I detest their fluff. Even by GW standards, it's a complete sh*tstorm, with Cawl being who and what he is, the perfection of the primaris and the way guiliman handles it. Twice he just swooped in, saved the day and forces primaris down the throat of a first founding chapter even fully ignoring his own codex.

The worst part is that even the dark angels sayeing "Yes sir, please sir", with the writer(s) fully ignoring how such a chapter would react naturally. Also, having 95ish% acceptance rate among chapters is absurd, everyone just rolls over? suddenly secretive/(semi-)paranoid warrior monks are comepletely ok with 'beter' strangers forced upon them?

I can understand that GW needs to earn money, but I'm just not ok with the fluff. Also, I'm expecting that GW will eventually replace every marine kit with primaris, If I still played loyalist marines, I wouldn't like it if I'd have to replace my entire collection with primaris/

I don't really mind the models, they aren't that great (how are the MK X? where's MK IX?) but that's subjective, and there are plenty of other models gw produces that I don't like, so not a problem for me.

I felt the justification given in the Dark Angels codex is pretty strong to be honest.

They've just had a massive chaos assault directly on the rock that they are left reeling from. The chapter is somewhat broken until it has time to rebuild and regroup. Azrael call a summit of all the Unforgiven, and in his haste to gather the Legion successors suffer heavy losses, some implied to be lost entirely while crossing the rift.

This is the context of Guilliman swaggering up to the Rock with a MASSIVE army.

The Dark Angels are looking extra suspicious as they are having their secret gathering of the Legion. Azrael is stated consider opening fire on the fleet, fearing that Guilliman has in the wake of Luther's escape discovered the secrets of the chapter. But know they would all be destroyed if they try to fight. Even with the successors gathered, they cannot stand a chance to the main fleet of the Lord Commander of the Imperium, it would purely be suicide.

So he invites Guilliman in, praying that the secret is still safe.

To Azrael's gigantic relief, Guilliman knows nothing! He simply bring reinforcements. Of course Azrael is wary, but he wants Guilliman gone immediately. He agrees to take in the Primaris (instructing the Inner Circle to immediately begin screening, monitoring and indoctrinating them.

He bids the Lord Commander safe travels and rushes him out the door.

You mean the fluff where guilliman gives permission to the dark angels to keep the "wings" the sheer idiocy of that part of the fluff alone

Yes.

Out of the billions of people that exist at the same time as you, you're literally the only person that feels the way you do. Consider yourself special and important.

I like them. I ignore their background and enjoy playing them.

I hope their background comes to more interesting conflict. I don't want them to just happily jump in with the regular marines and just get along like nothing happened. Something big needs to come from this, something destructive that's going to bite Rowboat Gilligan in the ass.

As far as the models themselves, I think they look great. Again, like most, I'd love some more variety, especially when it comes to the helmets. Just one style is boring.

It's kind of weird everyone thinking the DA are not answerable to the IoM, and even weirder to think they would flip the bird to the head of the IoM, who happens to be one of the emperor's sons, and a brother to their primarch. Yes they asked permissions to keep the "Wings" in the face of a command from the very top of the IoM to reform their organization to be compliant with new mandates. I suppose it's part of the DA are secret traitors meme that is floating around, and why read the fluff when you can read the memes. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

As for primaris, the models are nice and I decided to give them a try for a local escalation league as a choice that isn't hyper competitive and now that they are not new anymore they are pretty rare on the table. I still think the fluff is utter crap, but I can pinch my nose and deal with it for the sake of cool new models. There are lots of clever design features that make them very easy to paint, for instance they don't have many recesses, almost every detail is raised, which makes painting and highlighting a breeze. GW's CAD game is on point, the redemptor was fun to put together and has a lot of cool details you don't see in older models.

I think the problem with the primaris marines is their delivery to 8th edition.

Wheb other codexew got a new unit it was to cover some fla2. 5th edition some hole after 4th editions specialised codexes. 6th introduced flyers and anti air etc.

Primaris does not cover a role other units do not do. Also, they don't fit in any transport. If these two points where filled, they would be good.

 Formosa wrote:

You mean the fluff where guilliman gives permission to the dark angels to keep the "wings" the sheer idiocy of that part of the fluff alone

What do you mean? It's a power play on Guilliman's part. By stating that he is giving them permission, when they never asked it or expect to need to, he is asserting his authority as Lord Commander. The subtext is 'I can break you if I need to, so stay in line'.

Whether he actually could is another matter, though right then and there with the DA in disarray and him with crusade strength army at his back he probably could crush them.

ERJAK wrote:
The masks made them look like they were constantly mouthbreathing

I agree, in fact all my marines, which are SW, don't have a single helmet

 Blackie wrote:

ERJAK wrote:
The masks made them look like they were constantly mouthbreathing

I agree, in fact all my marines, which are SW, don't have a single helmet

except for the bikers right? cause you know..safety??

The points for weapons being separate in the back of the codex has basically meant that my gaming group is totally fine with taking primaris squads and equipping them like traditional tactical, assault, devestator, etc., squads. Magnetizing them is definitely happening. We're also cool with not following the transport rules that prevent Primaris units from getting in drop pods or land raiders or whatever.

If anything I hate the pre-primaris marines more from a model perspective. Their legs are just too short so their proportions are all wrong. When you see them next to a Cadian how short they are in general is just silly.

Fictional introduction of Primaris was weak though. I like the idea of a new founding and a crusade and all that, but I felt it was a bit too out of nowhere. Once they are present though, they just function as marines. Check out the Dark Imperium or Crusade stories and they' just do marine things.