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Just looking at the stompas weapons I feel like they dont do any damage. When we had templates they were ok but now that it uses only BS its next to useless. Couple that with the points cost and.....

Honestly we could go on for ever about the Stompa but it is only one of the poorly priced vehicles. Look at deff dreads... they somehow cost more than dreadnoughts but are less than effective!

SemperMortis wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Glane wrote:


You watch, the Kult of Speed klan tactic is going to be "Can fall back from close combat and still shoot/charge" which GW will say represents their hit and run tactics.

Which would be fine, if there was any incentive to falling back and charging, like 'evil sunz vehicles cause d3 mortal wounds on successful charges' or 'evil sunz units gain +1 attack on the charge'. Something like that would be fluffy and useful.

See, you aren't forging the narrative hard enough englishman. This is what GW has been trying to teach us Ork players for years. Stop trying to be "Competitive" or "Useful" with your ideas and buffs, instead think: "How Can I play my army to make SM and Eldar players feel better". giving us a unit with a useful buff would make Eldar and SM players lose models and that wouldn't be fun for them. Forge that narrative, and the narrative is, Orkz Lose again.

Lol I've played and forged that narrative enough over the years! Hopefully GW are looking to move Orks from the 'comic relief/losers' to the 'comic relief/frighteningly powerful' army style. Like that White Dwarf article I think it's kinda funny how the actual ork aesthetic on the tabletop has changed in terms of Imperial propaganda to what Orks actually are.

To me, in the years I've played, Orks are the army that best make use of and are defined by calculated risks. We have these super powerful weapons that can obliterate the strongest enemies like nothing, or they can backfire and kill the user. That is fun. Having a chance and going out (winning or losing) on a bang is epic. They've captured the mob mentality of Orks in our index, hopefully they can expand on it and focus on our other play styles for the codex.

E - is anyone sending their (or others) ideas to GW at all? It's all well and good that we come up with what we think we need here but if GW never hear of it we can't really blame them when they don't implement it.

I'd like to see;

1. More bang for our buck with our shooting, either through increased volume of fire, more AP, more damage or a mix.
2. More viable ways to play the army. Better internal balance. Make bikes great again. Make transports useful. Make a dread list viable, a shooty list decent and not a joke.
3. A return of the random. I'm happy to take more random weapons if the payoff is worth it and the negative is entertaining.
4. Kunnin stratagems. This is where we will be able to get wins. Stratagems are what brings the army together. I hope we don't get copy/pasted ones from other factions, we need our own identity.
5. Give us a way to effectively deal with all types of enemies - high T, W and Armour is a problem for us at the moment. Drowning them in bodies is neither fun nor effective. Flyers are a nightmare.
6. Make our specialist units specialists and make our characters useful/interesting/able to pay for themselves with their abilities.

I'm sure there's more but that's just off the top of my head.

I agree completely, we literally have ZERO answers to killing T8 models, especially with 2+ saves, unless you count Ghaz as a good answer.

Shooting for orkz was pathetically better in 7th where we saw a huge gulf open up between our Dakka and that of other armies. The fact that a Marine player can put out more shots a turn then an Ork gunline is pathetic.

My biggest pet peeve right now though is the comparison between Ork units and others.

Dreadnought: 132pts
WS/BS 3+ S6 T7 W8 A4 3+ save Has an assault Cannon and a DCCW -3 AP 3 dmg.

DeffDread: 131pts
WS 3+ BS 5+ S5 T7 W8 A2(really 4) 3+ save. Has 2 Big Shootas and 2 DCCWs (This is where the +2 attacks come from to give it 4 attacks base)

So the Dreadnought has the same number of attacks but has S12 to our S10 which is actually relevant now. Has the same number of shots, at a higher strength with better AP hitting on a 3+ instead of a 5+. Ohh and it comes with Smoke Launchers if it really needs to improve its durability for a turn.

So 1pt for SM vehicles is equivalent to +2 Strength, +2 BS, +1 Strength and AP for Dakka and a once a game -1 to hit modifier.

But on the plus side, Deff Dreadz can shoot 6 S5 shots 12inches further.

Now tell me that is fair.

 koooaei wrote:

 BigMekIronGob wrote:
I get the feeling the orks might be one of the next codex releases. I hope GW balanced out the rules and points so orks are a more viable army.

I would love a few new units as well but honestly I'll take what I can get.

I don't know. Currently there are so many issues that are coming from the ruleset itself. I doubt we'll get any real protection against going second vs a gunline blob army.

I don't know that GW will give us any answers for going second against a strong gunline, but I think they potentially could.

We've got a lot of units that can outflank/deepstrike/infiltrate/whatever, which is good when paired with 'Ere We Go. A lot of those units aren't very good right now, but if GW made them better we could start them off the board where they can't be shot.

Clan-specific abilities have a lot of potential to make our units more durable in various ways. Stratagems could also be useful for that. I wouldn't mind seeing them add a lot more special abilities to datasheets as well.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:

I don't know that GW will give us any answers for going second against a strong gunline, but I think they potentially could.

Supa Forcefield 2CP : Use this stratagem in the shooting phase of the first turn of the game : Any Kustom force fields in your army has its range doubled and the granted invulnurable save is increased for 4+++ until the end of the phase.

Easy peasy

I like that! For 2cp you get pretty good defence for trukks, ect... I'd invest in som kff bikers if that happened.

A stratagem along those lines would be really good. We might also get a better KFF as a relic.


I am curious to see what they'll do for the Evil Sunz clan ability. If they just copy and paste it from some other fast armies it could benefit footslogging infantry and dreadnoughts more than the faster ork vehicles.

SemperMortis wrote:


Shooting for orkz was pathetically better in 7th where we saw a huge gulf open up between our Dakka and that of other armies.

In 7th we had decent firepower. Lobbas and bikes could provide tons of S5 shots, rokkits were way cheaper (bustas and koptas were competitive, not to mention that every transport had rokkits) and min squad of lootas could do something. Now we basically have KMKs, 1 turn of shootas when they get teleported and smite. Any other offensive ability orks have is basically melee in this edition.

 Blackie wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:


Shooting for orkz was pathetically better in 7th where we saw a huge gulf open up between our Dakka and that of other armies.

In 7th we had decent firepower. Lobbas and bikes could provide tons of S5 shots, rokkits were way cheaper (bustas and koptas were competitive, not to mention that every transport had rokkits) and min squad of lootas could do something. Now we basically have KMKs, 1 turn of shootas when they get teleported and smite. Any other offensive ability orks have is basically melee in this edition.

Exactly, if you look though at previous editions, Orkz rolled BUCKETS of dice, it was a long standing joke, tons of MEMEs and what not. Now though? Almost every other army has more shots at better BS and dmg then an Ork army. A static Marine Gunline with 3-4 Asscan Razorbacks can liquidate entire Mobz of boyz every turn. Throw in some Centurions and a Stormtalon and there is literally nothing an Ork dakkaline can do except die in place.

We are supposed to be glass cannons apparently due to our absolutely crap armor saves (even on our super strong vehicles) Our 360pt Nauts have a 3+ save ffs. Ironically, you could DOUBLE the shots of the Gorkanauts Deffstorm Mega shooter and it would still not be as effective as a SM Asscan Razorback. (6D6 = 21 shots, 7 hits, Dual Asscans = 12 shots, 8 hits)

SemperMortis wrote:

 Blackie wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:


Shooting for orkz was pathetically better in 7th where we saw a huge gulf open up between our Dakka and that of other armies.

In 7th we had decent firepower. Lobbas and bikes could provide tons of S5 shots, rokkits were way cheaper (bustas and koptas were competitive, not to mention that every transport had rokkits) and min squad of lootas could do something. Now we basically have KMKs, 1 turn of shootas when they get teleported and smite. Any other offensive ability orks have is basically melee in this edition.

Exactly, if you look though at previous editions, Orkz rolled BUCKETS of dice, it was a long standing joke, tons of MEMEs and what not. Now though? Almost every other army has more shots at better BS and dmg then an Ork army. A static Marine Gunline with 3-4 Asscan Razorbacks can liquidate entire Mobz of boyz every turn. Throw in some Centurions and a Stormtalon and there is literally nothing an Ork dakkaline can do except die in place.

We are supposed to be glass cannons apparently due to our absolutely crap armor saves (even on our super strong vehicles) Our 360pt Nauts have a 3+ save ffs. Ironically, you could DOUBLE the shots of the Gorkanauts Deffstorm Mega shooter and it would still not be as effective as a SM Asscan Razorback. (6D6 = 21 shots, 7 hits, Dual Asscans = 12 shots, 8 hits)

For once, I’m going to mostly agree with you. Although I would say this is more a problem with the fact that Marines have a relatively cheap, resilient platform that can bang out a ludicrous number of decent-quality shots. Razorbacks, and particularly the ones packing a double assault cannon, are too cheap for what they do.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That said, if you’re going to line Orks up and try to outshoot Space Marines, you’re doing it wrong.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I’m not saying Orks shouldn’t be shooting *at all*, but I am saying they shouldn’t be doing it to the exclusion of everything else.

I agree with your 1st and 2nd posts but not the 3rd, every army should have a decent gunline option if it appeals to your playstyle, well except maybe Khorne

But Orkz more so then most deserve this since we were famous for our gunlines, hell we coined the term "Dakka" and yet our "Dakka" is so pathetic that to even attempt a gunline is making the game into a foregone conclusion.

With that Said I do enjoy a well rounded TAC list with shooty options and Melee options,unfortunately, the only Shooty option I can take that won't cost me the game is the KMK Mek Gun, and as highly touted as it is, it still isn't that effective at anything beyond wiping out Tac Marines and the occasional Terminator unit, which is rather sad as last edition I used to wipe out entire Space Marine Squads and Terminator squads with ease if they were foolish enough to group up in range of my KMKs.

 Nazrak wrote:
For once, I’m going to mostly agree with you. Although I would say this is more a problem with the fact that Marines have a relatively cheap, resilient platform that can bang out a ludicrous number of decent-quality shots. Razorbacks, and particularly the ones packing a double assault cannon, are too cheap for what they do.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That said, if you’re going to line Orks up and try to outshoot Space Marines, you’re doing it wrong.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I’m not saying Orks shouldn’t be shooting *at all*, but I am saying they shouldn’t be doing it to the exclusion of everything else.

The thing is, why are you "doing it wrong" if you're trying to outshoot Space Marines? Nids have been given excellent melee options in their dex. They also can run an incredibly effective shooty list. Why shouldn't we be able to?

Sure the shooting should be inaccurate, but the volume of fire should make up for it.

We all know what DakkaDakka refers to yet it isn't present at all in this edition at the moment. We gots a lack of Dakka boss!

E - Semper gets it.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Sure the shooting should be inaccurate, but the volume of fire should make up for it.

I'm only willing to go so far with this; picking up 90 dice is obnoxious. I'd be happy with the current state of things if orks had a bit more consistency.

-1 to hit for advancing with assault, or for firing kombi weapons, or for shooting at a plane or some ravenguard... get rid of that stuff, and suddenly orks are back to still being very inaccurate (missing 1-2-3-4 on the dice face) but their shooting suffers a bit less. And give all vehicles that rely on lots of shooting the option to take grot gunners for a bit of points.

 davou wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Sure the shooting should be inaccurate, but the volume of fire should make up for it.

I'm only willing to go so far with this; picking up 90 dice is obnoxious. I'd be happy with the current state of things if orks had a bit more consistency.

-1 to hit for advancing with assault, or for firing kombi weapons, or for shooting at a plane or some ravenguard... get rid of that stuff, and suddenly orks are back to still being very inaccurate (missing 1-2-3-4 on the dice face) but their shooting suffers a bit less. And give all vehicles that rely on lots of shooting the option to take grot gunners for a bit of points.

My opponents would pick up 90 dice and roll them at my ass with a smile on their face, there's nothing obnoxious about it, especially when 2/3 or 5/6 of those dice do nothing.

 davou wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Sure the shooting should be inaccurate, but the volume of fire should make up for it.

I'm only willing to go so far with this; picking up 90 dice is obnoxious. I'd be happy with the current state of things if orks had a bit more consistency.

-1 to hit for advancing with assault, or for firing kombi weapons, or for shooting at a plane or some ravenguard... get rid of that stuff, and suddenly orks are back to still being very inaccurate (missing 1-2-3-4 on the dice face) but their shooting suffers a bit less. And give all vehicles that rely on lots of shooting the option to take grot gunners for a bit of points.

The current state of things is that our shooting is terrible even without negative to hit modifiers. Some of that is due to prices of our ranged units, some of it is due to the piss poor durability of ranged units and some of it is due to the fact that the games power curve has gone up drastically for ranged combat while ours has stayed relatively the same. I just gave an example of the difference in shooting. Our Gorkanauts primary weapon The Deffstorm, is about 1/3rd as effective as a Dual Assault Cannon. To make the two weapon systems comparable you would need to change the Deffstorm from 3D6 to 7D6 on average. Our Big shoota is worse across the board when compared to a Heavy Bolter. IG can take a Heavy Bolter for 8pts we can have a Big Shoota for 6. The Heavy Bolter hits more often and has -1 AP. Our Rokkitz would be ok except the only platform worth taking them on (Tankbustas) are over priced AND require a minimum of a Trukk (80+pts) to function and not die turn 1. Our only useful Heavy Support weapon is the KMK which kills its bearer 1/2 as often as it hits or in the case of grots 1/3rd as often as it hits. The Stompa's shooting is such a shambles that we still make fun of Reese to this day for his BS about how good the Stompa is. Killa Kanz, Dreadz and Koptas have no viable weapon because it isn't worth taking any of the weapons available due to low dmg output, shot output or price. Grotzookas went from good to crap this edition.

No, we need a complete overhaul of our ranged combat otherwise its just going to be a game of figuring out what close combat units to take like it currently is.

SemperMortis wrote:
I agree with your 1st and 2nd posts but not the 3rd, every army should have a decent gunline option if it appeals to your playstyle, well except maybe Khorne

Now go look at the ranged weapons on a Lord of Skulls. Compare to stompa.

No more laughing.

There should be no" wrong way" to play a faction.

Asking for shooting comparable to whats currently one of the most broke models is where I stop taking things serioiusly. It would be like a marine player complaining that his landraider doesen't have the same effectiveness in combat as an 'orkonaught.

If we are going to compare the assault back with anything, Lootas are more fair. And even then we have to do it while keeping in mind that the assback is a bit OP for its points BEFORE you have aura buffs.

 davou wrote:
Asking for shooting comparable to whats currently one of the most broke models is where I stop taking things serioiusly. It would be like a marine player complaining that his landraider doesen't have the same effectiveness in combat as an 'orkonaught.

If we are going to compare the assault back with anything, Lootas are more fair. And even then we have to do it while keeping in mind that the assback is a bit OP for its points BEFORE you have aura buffs.

Can't you get like 3 AssBacks for the price of a Gorky with change?

I don't think Semper is asking for something unreasonable here, he wants a fair crack of the whip. It's pretty telling when a "shooty" Ork walker doesn't hit a single shot in a round.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:


I don't think Semper is asking for something unreasonable here, he wants a fair crack of the whip. It's pretty telling when a "shooty" Ork walker doesn't hit a single shot in a round.

I agree it should be better than it is now; but that don't change the fact that it shouldn't shoot as good as its points in some broken unit that everyone is currently complaining about.

Give it Grot gunners and always hit on six and its fine; the thing is shooty yes, but it can also split a land-raider in half in close combat; the points cost comes from all that stuff, not just how ti compares to an assaultback in a vacumm.

No! The marine player has a freaking knight which is basically a naut. The knight (i may add) is both better in cc and shooting! The land raider (which is not half bad in cc for what it is) is basically a battlewagon.... so your point is invalid.

The nauts are valued far higher for what they do... the cheapest knight is only a few points off what the mork used to be and yet is really double as effective.

SemperMortis wrote:



Exactly, if you look though at previous editions, Orkz rolled BUCKETS of dice, it was a long standing joke, tons of MEMEs and what not. Now though? Almost every other army has more shots at better BS and dmg then an Ork army. A static Marine Gunline with 3-4 Asscan Razorbacks can liquidate entire Mobz of boyz every turn. Throw in some Centurions and a Stormtalon and there is literally nothing an Ork dakkaline can do except die in place.

I hadn't thought about that, but that's an excellent point. It feels bad when other armies get as many reliable shots, at better BS, often rerolling hits and wounds.

I mean, hell, land raiders or stormtalons, like you said, get like 40 shots a turn. For an ork vehicle to be that effective, it'd have to have 80 shots. And they damn sure don't.

 lolman1c wrote:
No!

Errr, yes?

 lolman1c wrote:


The nauts are valued far higher for what they do... the cheapest knight is only a few points off what the mork used to be and yet is really double as effective.

A knight is 320 points, and another 95 for its gun.... The naught is 270 and its gun is 0. And the knight has to be troops, hq and everything else in its army; stop acting like you can take 2 units and compare them in a vaccum

 davou wrote:


A knight is 320 points, and another 95 for its gun.... The naught is 270 and its gun is 0. And the knight has to be troops, hq and everything else in its army; stop acting like you can take 2 units and compare them in a vaccum

To an extent, I agree with you, knights are substantially better than orkanauts, but are also substantially more expensive.

That being said, the only gun on orkanauts that is free is the deffstorm mega shoota. Cumpulsory rokkits, skorcha/KMB, and 2x twin big shootas, plus the KMK on the mork, add substantial cost.

So, gorkanaut winds up being 356, mork usually 340.

I honestly think that orkanauts are decent-ish for the points you spend for them, except for their ranged, which is pathetically bad.

 davou wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
No!

Errr, yes?

 lolman1c wrote:


The nauts are valued far higher for what they do... the cheapest knight is only a few points off what the mork used to be and yet is really double as effective.

A knight is 320 points, and another 95 for its gun.... The naught is 270 and its gun is 0. And the knight has to be troops, hq and everything else in its army; stop acting like you can take 2 units and compare them in a vaccum

Before CA the Morkanaut was about 370pts which is 40pts off the cheapest Knight you can make. For 40pts you get 6 more wounds and a cc weapon that does straight up 6 pure damage. After CA this how now changed to the Morkanaut being 340pts which puts it about 60-70pts off a knight. If you consider Orks and how we're supposed to (from the way gw pushed it for many editions) have cheaper crappy versions of marine stuff then yes the nauts compare nicely to a knight. And you outright compared the landraider to the nauts you you just blew your own criticism out of the water!

But why shouldn't we compare the landraider to the wagon? They're both designed to be tough transport vechiles with hih wounds and lots of weapons on. Only now in 8th edition people have forgotten that landraiders can even transport troops because their weapons are so effective. Again, following experience from past editions before the nauts and knights even existed, the wagon was ment to be a orky crappy but cheap landraider. We even mostly used landraider models to make battle wagons before we had an official model!

But again, for the benefits the landraider gets there isn't much in the way of difference between points. On avarage you will see about a 50-100pts differentiation in points (knights will a 50-200pts difference depending onmknight as the imperium walkers have a much wider selection on how they want to play). But the landraider could easily beat 2 wagons and I've seen single knights beat 3 nauts.

Dav - if Nauts (of either flavour) were strong they would be taken en masse. The models are too glorious not to. take. They need to be better and I think Semper's suggestion of having the gatling cannon be 6d6 shots AND having a 6s always hit rule would make them somewhat reasonable. They don't need to be tougher, and their melee output as you've said is great (although they often get shot up on the way there) so better shooting wouldn't go amiss. Perhaps 4d6 is the right number of shots, or 12 or something but it needs a buff for sure I think.

As to Ork shooting generally - it's freaking awful. I don't mind this as much on Shoota Boyz who are really more flexible Slugga Boyz, but Lootas? Tankbustas? Burna Boyz? Killa Kans? Koptas? Flash Gits ffs? These are some dedicated shooting units where you pay a premium for a weapon that doesn't work because it's shot by a goddamn greenskin and it's priced and performs as if a marine was shooting it.

That's the issue and I think the reason people are so keen to see it fixed is so we can take more variety of units rather than the same old. We don't wanna be OP but we want to be able to use our awesome models that we've spent donkeys painting without nerfing ourself.

Like my bikes that make me wince every time I place them on the table.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Dav - if Nauts (of either flavour) were strong they would be taken en masse. The models are too glorious not to. take. They need to be better and I think Semper's suggestion of having the gatling cannon be 6d6 shots AND having a 6s always hit rule would make them somewhat reasonable. They don't need to be tougher, and their melee output as you've said is great (although they often get shot up on the way there) so better shooting wouldn't go amiss. Perhaps 4d6 is the right number of shots, or 12 or something but it needs a buff for sure I think.

As to Ork shooting generally - it's freaking awful. I don't mind this as much on Shoota Boyz who are really more flexible Slugga Boyz, but Lootas? Tankbustas? Burna Boyz? Killa Kans? Koptas? Flash Gits ffs? These are some dedicated shooting units where you pay a premium for a weapon that doesn't work because it's shot by a goddamn greenskin and it's priced and performs as if a marine was shooting it.

That's the issue and I think the reason people are so keen to see it fixed is so we can take more variety of units rather than the same old. We don't wanna be OP but we want to be able to use our awesome models that we've spent donkeys painting without nerfing ourself.

Like my bikes that make me wince every time I place them on the table.

Well reasoned and said; I agree with most of this.

I never pretended that orks are in a good spot, but I think too many people act like Orks are way too underpowered, instead of recognizing that some other armies are way too overpowered. Bringing orks up to abusive levels that matches that of ass-backs, only makes everything worse. What we need is a small nudge up, combined with several small nudges down in other armies. Orks aren't the on top of the hill right now, but the armies that are are all busy building scaffolding to get just a bit higher up.

A few of armies are hurting right now... But the level of bitching that comes out of ork players drives me into self loathing

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Dav - if Nauts (of either flavour) were strong they would be taken en masse. The models are too glorious not to. take. They need to be better and I think Semper's suggestion of having the gatling cannon be 6d6 shots AND having a 6s always hit rule would make them somewhat reasonable. They don't need to be tougher, and their melee output as you've said is great (although they often get shot up on the way there) so better shooting wouldn't go amiss. Perhaps 4d6 is the right number of shots, or 12 or something but it needs a buff for sure I think.

As to Ork shooting generally - it's freaking awful. I don't mind this as much on Shoota Boyz who are really more flexible Slugga Boyz, but Lootas? Tankbustas? Burna Boyz? Killa Kans? Koptas? Flash Gits ffs? These are some dedicated shooting units where you pay a premium for a weapon that doesn't work because it's shot by a goddamn greenskin and it's priced and performs as if a marine was shooting it.

That's the issue and I think the reason people are so keen to see it fixed is so we can take more variety of units rather than the same old. We don't wanna be OP but we want to be able to use our awesome models that we've spent donkeys painting without nerfing ourself.

Like my bikes that make me wince every time I place them on the table.

Exsactly this! I want my models to be worth their points! Then i see 1 knight take out 3 nauts and a few killa kans I don't ever feel like bringing them out again when for the same cost i could swamp the board with hundreds of boyz that I know are cost efficient.... it just feels broken when a unit beats down double their own points... same for my trukks, walkers, ect... they all have equal units that mirror them in the imperium but always win for next to the same points value. I do not mind if a knight blows up my naut turn 1 as long as my naut is worth a fraction of the army but before CA it was +350pts which for an ork might as well be a billion points. Same with trukk... blow my trukk up all you like but if it's some how less durable than a rhino and yet costs about the same or more what is the point? I'd rather have paper thin trukks that cost nothing than the trukks we have now that cost morr than a rhino with 2 storm bolters ( because we lost all the options that also made trukks awesome and unique)

 davou wrote:
Well reasoned and said; I agree with most of this.

I never pretended that orks are in a good spot, but I think too many people act like Orks are way too underpowered, instead of recognizing that some other armies are way too overpowered. Bringing orks up to abusive levels that matches that of ass-backs, only makes everything worse. What we need is a small nudge up, combined with several small nudges down in other armies. Orks aren't the on top of the hill right now, but the armies that are are all busy building scaffolding to get just a bit higher up.

A few of armies are hurting right now... But the level of bitching that comes out of ork players drives me into self loathing

Thanks dude. I guess with regards to nudges up and down, it's better to be top of the pile and go down, rather than be bottom and go up

If we really look at Orks we are probably in the strongest position we've been in for quite a while. The issue is we are a mono-build faction and the units that don't perform well aren't just 'meh' they are a self imposed nerf.

We have like 6 or so units that perform well. The rest needs a serious looking at and they desperately need to be improved. It's variation I crave, I want to run my awesome bikers and for them to have a function and not just be a points sink, I want to run my Burnas in Trukks and I really want my Flash Gits to be decent. I'm sure other players want to run their Killa Kans, Deff Dreads and Nauts. I know people want to be able to run their Stompa.

I really hope this feedback is getting back to GW, although would they listen anyway?

 lolman1c wrote:
Exsactly this! I want my models to be worth their points! Then i see 1 knight take out 3 nauts and a few killa kans I don't ever feel like bringing them out again when for the same cost i could swamp the board with hundreds of boyz that I know are cost efficient.... it just feels broken when a unit beats down double their own points... same for my trukks, walkers, ect... they all have equal units that mirror them in the imperium but always win for next to the same points value. I do not mind if a knight blows up my naut turn 1 as long as my naut is worth a fraction of the army but before CA it was +350pts which for an ork might as well be a billion points. Same with trukk... blow my trukk up all you like but if it's some how less durable than a rhino and yet costs about the same or more what is the point? I'd rather have paper thin trukks that cost nothing than the trukks we have now that cost morr than a rhino with 2 storm bolters ( because we lost all the options that also made trukks awesome and unique)

Yea I couldn't agree more and I too am annoyed that we seem to get "just as expensive but nowhere near as good" version of imperial things.