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I wouldn't mind a 30k Daemon Angron with the Black Blade before it gets smashed on Armageddon:

Maybe he would be smaller than the 40k version or a little less ornate.

I know I am probably in the minority, but I am disappointed that HH is staying with 7th.

I will end up moving away from my Raven Guard and the Heresy in general.

stormboy wrote:
I know I am probably in the minority, but I am disappointed that HH is staying with 7th.

As am i. I love things like the move stats, hit modifiers, strategems, save modifiers, and multiple damage on weapons.

And all those different ways of writing the same Moral Wound rules. Don't forget those!




Anyway, no Fires? That's a shame. Waited a long time for a FW Mechanicus book... and thus we wait longer.

The possibility of plastic Mk.II is nice. I've always liked that style.

The Daemon Primarch thing is perplexing though. Why would I ever want a giant spindly Daemon Primarch model in resin when there's a plastic one. Can anyone imagine putting Mortarion together with superglue, and with FW's... uhh... let's say casual relationship with QA?

For the ones that GW is unlikely to do (Lorgar, Peturabo) ok fine, but Angron? Fulgrim? You'd think we'd be getting them in plastic eventually. Do you want a big plastic snake or a big resin snake?

On the contrary, I will invest more and get rid of 40k stuff, since now I know it's definitely going to stay 7th

I would also love myself a resin snek Fulgrim. The way GWs machines places parts of sprues is just horrible. In other words, I would rather pay x2 the price for a resin piston/snek body than have to glue it from two parts.

 Platuan4th wrote:
Honestly though, the "rewrite the whole thing to fit it with 8th Ed lore" sounds like a cop out. There's plenty of previous FW campaigns that were historical, why should Fires suddenly be so special it HAS to take place contemporarily. Give us the stuff that was already written, place it just before the Galaxy gets a new space hole, now all you needed to do was rework the rules section.

I want to play through the damned campaign and the longer it takes to release, the more that desire diminishes.

Well, making it in the modern times is an Opportunity which can include exciting newer modern elements like Primaris marines etc. I think there is just more potential for people to be interested in the book if it is modern 40k.

Now, probably it would be easy to have more people interested in a book that Actually Exists than for one that won't come out for 1-5 years.

 ph34r wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:
Honestly though, the "rewrite the whole thing to fit it with 8th Ed lore" sounds like a cop out. There's plenty of previous FW campaigns that were historical, why should Fires suddenly be so special it HAS to take place contemporarily. Give us the stuff that was already written, place it just before the Galaxy gets a new space hole, now all you needed to do was rework the rules section.

I want to play through the damned campaign and the longer it takes to release, the more that desire diminishes.

Well, making it in the modern times is an Opportunity which can include exciting newer modern elements like Primaris marines etc. I think there is just more potential for people to be interested in the book if it is modern 40k.

The two most popular sets of FW books to date are the Heresy and Badab War, both explicitly "historical" settings. Fires needs to be in the advanced timeline to get people interested exactly as much as 40K needed the timeline to advance in the first place, ie, not at all.

FW have a grand total of one Primaris-related model, and rewriting the whole background of the book just to include that and so they can chuck in some references to Bigger Marines and Big Pappy Smurf is a joke.

I disagree. The Horus Heresy and Badab were Big Important Historical Events that had fluff going way back. Fires of Cyraxus has no sort of background precedent to make people automatically be interested in it already.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

stormboy wrote:
I know I am probably in the minority, but I am disappointed that HH is staying with 7th.

As am i. I love things like the move stats, hit modifiers, strategems, save modifiers, and multiple damage on weapons.

Agreed, and I think 8th is better suited for larger scale games that naturally fit HH. But it is what it is. They struggle to get the black books out once a year, and FoC is firmly stuck in development hell. A full port to 8th isn’t something they want to take on. In the meantime, check out the 8th ed HH fan project. They’ve done some nice work with it.

I think the main thing that the Horus Heresy could use is the rend system. It's amazing how less useless certain weapons become under that.

Called it, more Lord of the Rings, Lol. At least no LCTB yet!

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-CA/Goblin-Mercenaries-2018

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I think the main thing that the Horus Heresy could use is the rend system. It's amazing how less useless certain weapons become under that.

Its just the old pre-8th edition AP system is a worse design. It promotes weapons that have AP2 in both close combat and shooting. I would love to see a normal minuses to penetration for all weapons how its done in 8th or how it was done in the old 2nd edition.

For example i have made a unit of 10 Termies armed with 2 lightning claws and i would love to use them against most targets. As it is now they have AP3 in Horus Heresy making this armament for such a unit practically useless (especially other Termies). However in 8th its a good viable option.

8th is better in every way except for vehicle facings and templates, those are mostly a matter of taste but fit very well in Heresy with it's abundance of vehicles. Would be trivial to add them to the 8th rule set though, so I hope that's what they'll do when they finish the books and finally switch over. Maybe then there will be at least some hope of getting someone to play Heresy in my group.

 Mymearan wrote:
8th is better in every way except for vehicle facings and templates, those are mostly a matter of taste but fit very well in Heresy with it's abundance of vehicles. Would be trivial to add them to the 8th rule set though, so I hope that's what they'll do when they finish the books and finally switch over. Maybe then there will be at least some hope of getting someone to play Heresy in my group.

And except logical rules and balance.

Hopefully they never switch over. I want my HH games remain a) logical b) balanced. 8th ed switch would require complete rewrite from scratch to accomplish that for HH.

 Crazyterran wrote:
Called it, more Lord of the Rings, Lol. At least no LCTB yet!

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-CA/Goblin-Mercenaries-2018

Ah finally, been waiting for these.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
And all those different ways of writing the same Moral Wound rules. Don't forget those!




Anyway, no Fires? That's a shame. Waited a long time for a FW Mechanicus book... and thus we wait longer.

The possibility of plastic Mk.II is nice. I've always liked that style.

The Daemon Primarch thing is perplexing though. Why would I ever want a giant spindly Daemon Primarch model in resin when there's a plastic one. Can anyone imagine putting Mortarion together with superglue, and with FW's... uhh... let's say casual relationship with QA?

For the ones that GW is unlikely to do (Lorgar, Peturabo) ok fine, but Angron? Fulgrim? You'd think we'd be getting them in plastic eventually. Do you want a big plastic snake or a big resin snake?

Even daemons change in time. I don't think Forge World will be making a resin daemon Magnus or Mortarion that's just like the plastic ones. Nothing wrong with getting Rogal Dorn at the siege of the Imperial Palace - looking more weatherbeaten and battleworn than the current model, or a newly-ascended Mortarion.

Them saying that Horus Heresy will remain in 7th "for the foreseeable future" was the best part of the stream for me. I don't mind 40k 8th edition, but 7th just fits so well for HH. I love it, and don't want it to change.

 alleus wrote:
Them saying that Horus Heresy will remain in 7th "for the foreseeable future" was the best part of the stream for me. I don't mind 40k 8th edition, but 7th just fits so well for HH. I love it, and don't want it to change.

It's not ideal. They should at least adopt some of the 8th rules, such as the Save Modifier. For example, Artificer Armour tanking is teeth grindingly annoying. As a poster mentioned above, it'll make a lot more weapons more attractive than they currently are

Another disappointing week - sick of LotR - are FW planning to ever release the final blood bowl goblin team positionals? Been over a year (and several other teams) since the rest of the team launched - such a frustrating means of release. >.< Heck, it's been a month since Necromunda's Gang War 3 launched -
where are ANY of the new goodies offered in it (Ambots, gang pets, etc...). The compnay needs a better system for arraning its releases.

I’d like Vehicles to move to Toughness values (on each facing) and saves, rather than AV, because having two separate systems to resolve the same question (does this damage that?) is silly and redundant.
Would be neat if they went for the same strength scaling as 8e, or at least extended/reworked the S/T table to account for up to S15 or 20 and just had D weapons be really high strength.

Personally, I won’t be focusing on HH at all while it stays at 7th edition, with the random changes made a while back.

It’s not that I don’t like the game, or the models etc, it’s just that 8th ed is still changing and being faq’d a lot. There is a new AoS edition and ruleset coming out, and HH feels so far behind the curve in regards to problem solving that, I just, currently, don’t want to spend the time having to go back and re-adjust to 7th, while keeping up to date with 8th, and learning more about AoS 2nd ed.

Then you have Necromunda, Shadespire, Bloodbowl. It’s no wonder that people make rules mistakes so frequently (myself included) when there are so many rules for so many games set in the same/similar setting, sometimes even using the same models. And that is before you take into account all the inconsistencies, lack of clarification and poor rules writing that don’t seem to ever get addressed.

Sure, book 8 will be interesting to see – but, it’s already dropped DA and Nightlords to book 9, and I’m pretty confident in saying that it’ll either be similar to book 7, in that it’ll be full of insanely unbalancing things, or it’ll return to the others and simply be pretty lame in comparison. I’m personally expecting it to be similar to book 7, when compared to books 1-6, as codex creep is the only way of long term game design GW seems to follow.

The problem, also is, by the time all the Legions, all the Primarchs and all the units have rules and models, the current generation of HH players will be a decade older, and the chances of new players entering the game – instead of picking up 40k or AoS, in that time is pretty slim. This is simply down to how I expect 40k and AoS to develop over the same time period.


I’m also pretty disappointed in how far behind they seem to be in regards to everything. Yes, not having the staff dedicated to 1 thing, doesn’t help, but, it just hurts the development of their products for the main games. They must be seeing something I’m not, but, currently, things just don’t feel “right” from their business focus.

I agree Kdash. I guess I could probably play 7th without too much grinding of teeth, but I also play 8th, AoS, Necromunda, etc and there's just no way I'm re-learning an old (and bad) rule set to add to the confusion.

While I can agree that save modifiers could be good, that's about it. The rest of 8th is way too simplified and boring for me. It works well for 40k since there are so many races and other things keeping the game exciting, but for Horus Heresy where you see marines facing marines with the occasional deviant (such as myself, Ave Omnessiah!) I feel that I need a more complex ruleset to really keep myself invested and interested during a game.

And I REALLY hope they keep away from the whole command point and stratagem thing. More special rules and tactics are fine, but to lock them behind command points that some armies get way more of is not a good system in my opinion.

Ordinatus Mole!

Courtesy of M_R_Parker of B&C

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

stormboy wrote:
I know I am probably in the minority, but I am disappointed that HH is staying with 7th.

As am i. I love things like the move stats, hit modifiers, strategems, save modifiers, and multiple damage on weapons.

Im glad its staying, I like my cover rules, vehicle arcs, weapon variation, variation in general, complexity, tactics, movement that matters.

Great thing is due to the awesome 30k conversion project going on you get what you want, HH armies in 40k, and I get to keep my HH game the way I like it too, everyone wins

 Yodhrin wrote:

 ph34r wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:
Honestly though, the "rewrite the whole thing to fit it with 8th Ed lore" sounds like a cop out. There's plenty of previous FW campaigns that were historical, why should Fires suddenly be so special it HAS to take place contemporarily. Give us the stuff that was already written, place it just before the Galaxy gets a new space hole, now all you needed to do was rework the rules section.

I want to play through the damned campaign and the longer it takes to release, the more that desire diminishes.

Well, making it in the modern times is an Opportunity which can include exciting newer modern elements like Primaris marines etc. I think there is just more potential for people to be interested in the book if it is modern 40k.

The two most popular sets of FW books to date are the Heresy and Badab War, both explicitly "historical" settings. Fires needs to be in the advanced timeline to get people interested exactly as much as 40K needed the timeline to advance in the first place, ie, not at all.

FW have a grand total of one Primaris-related model, and rewriting the whole background of the book just to include that and so they can chuck in some references to Bigger Marines and Big Pappy Smurf is a joke.

Why would GW invest resources in a 40k product that's incompatible with their primary range? The primary purpose of the game, the background, the artwork, the rules, everything is to sell space marines, particularly primaris space marines.

I would expect all new releases to be set in the "modern" era and would not expect much ongoing support for products that aren't. Pure speculation, but I suspect this may be the reason behind the shrinking Horus Heresy range. If I'm trying to get players to switch over to the new primaris line, I don't know how happy I'd be with FW pushing 30k infantry and vehicles that are only compatible with the legacy range.

 andysonic1 wrote:
I wouldn't mind a 30k Daemon Angron with the Black Blade before it gets smashed on Armageddon:

I've been wondering if the Black Blade will be 'reforged' when the plastic version arrives, or if they will advance him to a new weapon set. I mean, daemons can't really 'die'...so can an uber-daemon weapon?

At any rate, I'm sure part of FW's interest in their own resin daemon primarchs has to do with primarchs selling well, including to collectors who don't play. There's lots and lots of stuff in the HH line that doesn't have that kind of appeal. Still...it just seems redundant.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The Daemon Primarch thing is perplexing though. Why would I ever want a giant spindly Daemon Primarch model in resin when there's a plastic one. Can anyone imagine putting Mortarion together with superglue, and with FW's... uhh... let's say casual relationship with QA?

If FW's Khorne Daemon Prince model is a preview...yikes. That model is infuriating, what with having to glue on so many tiny individual spikes.


EDIT: And let's be realistic here. At the rate at which FW works, we may quite literally be talking about a release date around 2024 for resin daemon primarchs. And when something is that far out, will it even happen? Which is one of the issues facing HH overall, IMO.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 ph34r wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:
Honestly though, the "rewrite the whole thing to fit it with 8th Ed lore" sounds like a cop out. There's plenty of previous FW campaigns that were historical, why should Fires suddenly be so special it HAS to take place contemporarily. Give us the stuff that was already written, place it just before the Galaxy gets a new space hole, now all you needed to do was rework the rules section.

I want to play through the damned campaign and the longer it takes to release, the more that desire diminishes.

Well, making it in the modern times is an Opportunity which can include exciting newer modern elements like Primaris marines etc. I think there is just more potential for people to be interested in the book if it is modern 40k.

The two most popular sets of FW books to date are the Heresy and Badab War, both explicitly "historical" settings. Fires needs to be in the advanced timeline to get people interested exactly as much as 40K needed the timeline to advance in the first place, ie, not at all.

FW have a grand total of one Primaris-related model, and rewriting the whole background of the book just to include that and so they can chuck in some references to Bigger Marines and Big Pappy Smurf is a joke.

Why would GW invest resources in a 40k product that's incompatible with their primary range? The primary purpose of the game, the background, the artwork, the rules, everything is to sell space marines, particularly primaris space marines.

I would expect all new releases to be set in the "modern" era and would not expect much ongoing support for products that aren't. Pure speculation, but I suspect this may be the reason behind the shrinking Horus Heresy range. If I'm trying to get players to switch over to the new primaris line, I don't know how happy I'd be with FW pushing 30k infantry and vehicles that are only compatible with the legacy range.

What on earth are you on about? We're talking about an Imperial Armour book for 8th Edition 40K, and whether or not the background material in the book needed to be updated to the post-Rowboat setting or not to be appealing. As far as I know, leaving the background material as it was - apparently already fully written - doesn't somehow prevent you using the rules.

And the primary purpose of this product was to flesh out the sodding AdMech in 40K. It was finished, and while everyone grasps that they had to update the rules even if they don't care for 8th, the fact it's now apparently being even further delayed to change the background material for no worthwhile reason given FW sell one Primaris-related kit and it's a HUEG superheavy that only a handful of people will ever buy.

Also, the whole point of Forgeworld was supposed to be doing the things the main studio couldn't or wouldn't, expanding support with models that wouldn't be financially viable in plastic, and in so doing retaining customers within the GW ecosystem that would otherwise have gone to competitors or other hobbies with their cash - if they're just going to be used as another vector for shilling Primaris and neoPrimarchs, what's the point?

The only problem I have with HH staying in 7th is that they had the opportunity to fix a lot of the problems inherent to 7th and to incorporate the best rules from previous editions...but they didn't. Sure, we still have the better/balanced army lists, but they're still played on a broken system.

The Cyraxis situation is just absurd. I bought some Mechnanicum models when it was first announced (thankfully not many), I don't remember how long ago that was, seems like an eternity. They cranked indexes for most of their models in record time when 8th arrived. Sure, the quality was not great, but bad rules is better than no rules. And lets not forget that there are FW AD Mech units (the Secutarii and the Ordinatus) which had 40K rules in the previous edition but do not have them any more. It is completely inexcusable to sell people these expensive models and then remove the rules support. They did the same with some of their Fantasy models when AOS hit, the Demigryph general and the Landship never got AOS rules. I will never buy a FW model that is not a direct proxy of a model existing in the main rules.