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JBSchroeds wrote: I decided to look at a dozen different kits across the price spectrum (from rhino doors up to the warlord), and found that the median premium-over-straight-currency-conversion was 20% for US customers. It wasn't exact on every kit, but most were very close, hovering in the 19-21% range (likely due to rounding to whole dollars). The worst two offenders from my random checking were deimos rhino doors and legion combi-weapons, both at a 24% additional markup.
I've been away from GW for ten years and just got back into it to find out they haven't changed much. Being 100% honest, I've never seen a company make more confusingly daft business decisions in my entire life. I had heard they had turned things around recently and hence my giving it a shot again. "They had to have done something good or they wouldn't still be around", I thought. If they just lowered their prices (which they most certainly can afford to do) they would increase their profit margins overall. It's why Jeff Bezos is the richest man in the world. Some will say, "but they gotta pay for this and that and ...." SILENCE. You are a fool. Some will say, "They can't keep up with demand if they lower prices...I took a class in economics and I'm a Socialist" SILENCE! Before I smite thee. Here's the answer, please read it twice. You GROW your business to keep up with demand. There is no way on earth their costs remotely approach their prices. And if they do, then they are even more Communist than I thought. What they need is an American business mogul to come in and teach these dingbats how to actually grow a business. I'm talking Donald Trump style we're about to make GW great again all while paying off hookers and eating cheeseburgers. If there is one thing we are good at, it's Capitalism for better or for worse. In ten years you would see a squad of Primaris Marines in every Happy Meal and there would be a Games Workshop store in the back of every Starbucks and it wouldn't take a 6 figure income to collect this magical rare earth mineral called plastic. It's freaking plastic still on the sprues. IT DOESN'T COST MUCH AT ALL TO MAKE THIS STUFF. "but, but, but.." SILENCE!
The Forge World price rise was worth it for this alone
Trump prices for Trump Amurika.
He seems to have gotten his wish but doesn’t like it...
>Misses obvious attempt at humor in post
>American economy is booming
Tavis75 wrote: The problem here seems to be that FW have used an exchange rate that is likely based around an historical average (as they need to cover against future rate changes that make the pound more valuable*) but have done it at a time when the exchange rate when converting to GBP is very good, making it look very bad as there's this sudden huge price hike.
Todays exchange rate is approximately 1.28 dollars to the pound, but go back prior to the brexit vote and it was around 1.56, a year earlier again 1.66 (I believe it's even got close to 2 at some points in the past), so if the change had happened then it would have seemed much better, in fact probably even a price cut. If you look on the bright side, FW stuff is now likely to be cheaper than it was a few years back and if the exchange rate moves back closer to the normal rates then the new overseas prices may start to become a better deal than paying in GBP.
*This may be optimistic based on how things are going.
You don't seriously think that if this had been done while the GBP was at 1.6 USD that we would have seen a price decrease, do you?
JBSchroeds wrote: I decided to look at a dozen different kits across the price spectrum (from rhino doors up to the warlord), and found that the median premium-over-straight-currency-conversion was 20% for US customers. It wasn't exact on every kit, but most were very close, hovering in the 19-21% range (likely due to rounding to whole dollars). The worst two offenders from my random checking were deimos rhino doors and legion combi-weapons, both at a 24% additional markup.
I've been away from GW for ten years and just got back into it to find out they haven't changed much. Being 100% honest, I've never seen a company make more confusingly daft business decisions in my entire life. I had heard they had turned things around recently and hence my giving it a shot again. "They had to have done something good or they wouldn't still be around", I thought. If they just lowered their prices (which they most certainly can afford to do) they would increase their profit margins overall. It's why Jeff Bezos is the richest man in the world. Some will say, "but they gotta pay for this and that and ...." SILENCE. You are a fool. Some will say, "They can't keep up with demand if they lower prices...I took a class in economics and I'm a Socialist" SILENCE! Before I smite thee. Here's the answer, please read it twice. You GROW your business to keep up with demand. There is no way on earth their costs remotely approach their prices. And if they do, then they are even more Communist than I thought. What they need is an American business mogul to come in and teach these dingbats how to actually grow a business. I'm talking Donald Trump style we're about to make GW great again all while paying off hookers and eating cheeseburgers. If there is one thing we are good at, it's Capitalism for better or for worse. In ten years you would see a squad of Primaris Marines in every Happy Meal and there would be a Games Workshop store in the back of every Starbucks and it wouldn't take a 6 figure income to collect this magical rare earth mineral called plastic. It's freaking plastic still on the sprues. IT DOESN'T COST MUCH AT ALL TO MAKE THIS STUFF. "but, but, but.." SILENCE!
The Forge World price rise was worth it for this alone
Trump prices for Trump Amurika.
He seems to have gotten his wish but doesn’t like it...
>Misses obvious attempt at humor in post
>American economy is booming
Oi, you got a loicense for that obby knoife mate?
Who greentexts on a forum?
The biggest indicator someone is a loser is them complaining about 3d printers or piracy.
JBSchroeds wrote: I decided to look at a dozen different kits across the price spectrum (from rhino doors up to the warlord), and found that the median premium-over-straight-currency-conversion was 20% for US customers. It wasn't exact on every kit, but most were very close, hovering in the 19-21% range (likely due to rounding to whole dollars). The worst two offenders from my random checking were deimos rhino doors and legion combi-weapons, both at a 24% additional markup.
I've been away from GW for ten years and just got back into it to find out they haven't changed much. Being 100% honest, I've never seen a company make more confusingly daft business decisions in my entire life. I had heard they had turned things around recently and hence my giving it a shot again. "They had to have done something good or they wouldn't still be around", I thought. If they just lowered their prices (which they most certainly can afford to do) they would increase their profit margins overall. It's why Jeff Bezos is the richest man in the world. Some will say, "but they gotta pay for this and that and ...." SILENCE. You are a fool. Some will say, "They can't keep up with demand if they lower prices...I took a class in economics and I'm a Socialist" SILENCE! Before I smite thee. Here's the answer, please read it twice. You GROW your business to keep up with demand. There is no way on earth their costs remotely approach their prices. And if they do, then they are even more Communist than I thought. What they need is an American business mogul to come in and teach these dingbats how to actually grow a business. I'm talking Donald Trump style we're about to make GW great again all while paying off hookers and eating cheeseburgers. If there is one thing we are good at, it's Capitalism for better or for worse. In ten years you would see a squad of Primaris Marines in every Happy Meal and there would be a Games Workshop store in the back of every Starbucks and it wouldn't take a 6 figure income to collect this magical rare earth mineral called plastic. It's freaking plastic still on the sprues. IT DOESN'T COST MUCH AT ALL TO MAKE THIS STUFF. "but, but, but.." SILENCE!
The Forge World price rise was worth it for this alone
Trump prices for Trump Amurika.
He seems to have gotten his wish but doesn’t like it...
>Misses obvious attempt at humor in post
>American economy is booming
Oi, you got a loicense for that obby knoife mate?
Who greentexts on a forum?
>asks who greentexts on a forum
>doesn’t understand that all greentexts are on forums
JBSchroeds wrote: I decided to look at a dozen different kits across the price spectrum (from rhino doors up to the warlord), and found that the median premium-over-straight-currency-conversion was 20% for US customers. It wasn't exact on every kit, but most were very close, hovering in the 19-21% range (likely due to rounding to whole dollars). The worst two offenders from my random checking were deimos rhino doors and legion combi-weapons, both at a 24% additional markup.
I've been away from GW for ten years and just got back into it to find out they haven't changed much. Being 100% honest, I've never seen a company make more confusingly daft business decisions in my entire life. I had heard they had turned things around recently and hence my giving it a shot again. "They had to have done something good or they wouldn't still be around", I thought. If they just lowered their prices (which they most certainly can afford to do) they would increase their profit margins overall. It's why Jeff Bezos is the richest man in the world. Some will say, "but they gotta pay for this and that and ...." SILENCE. You are a fool. Some will say, "They can't keep up with demand if they lower prices...I took a class in economics and I'm a Socialist" SILENCE! Before I smite thee. Here's the answer, please read it twice. You GROW your business to keep up with demand. There is no way on earth their costs remotely approach their prices. And if they do, then they are even more Communist than I thought. What they need is an American business mogul to come in and teach these dingbats how to actually grow a business. I'm talking Donald Trump style we're about to make GW great again all while paying off hookers and eating cheeseburgers. If there is one thing we are good at, it's Capitalism for better or for worse. In ten years you would see a squad of Primaris Marines in every Happy Meal and there would be a Games Workshop store in the back of every Starbucks and it wouldn't take a 6 figure income to collect this magical rare earth mineral called plastic. It's freaking plastic still on the sprues. IT DOESN'T COST MUCH AT ALL TO MAKE THIS STUFF. "but, but, but.." SILENCE!
The Forge World price rise was worth it for this alone
Trump prices for Trump Amurika.
He seems to have gotten his wish but doesn’t like it...
>Misses obvious attempt at humor in post
>American economy is booming
Oi, you got a loicense for that obby knoife mate?
Who greentexts on a forum?
>asks who greentexts on a forum
>doesn’t understand that all greentexts are on forums
Quasistellar wrote: You don't seriously think that if this had been done while the GBP was at 1.6 USD that we would have seen a price decrease, do you?
I admit, that would have been unlikely.
Really just making the point that although it's pretty annoying to see such a sudden price hike now, in reality the prices have probably just returned to what they would have been a few years back, if not cheaper, and that if the exchange rate shifts back towards a more normal level then the prices could end being cheaper than they would have been without this change. So it's going to annoy a lot of people now who were used to the cheaper prices, but historically, people appear to have been happy to pay the higher prices.
Admittedly though, I am in the UK, so I'm looking at it from a purely practical perspective, if I lived elsewhere else I'd probably be looking at it a lot differently!
So after all this frothing about FW moving to the same price structure as main GW I assume you will be boycotting all GW sales?
Thought not.
Your last point is especially laughable and comical, because not only the 7th ed Valkyrie shown dumber things (like being able to throw the troopers without parachutes out of its hatches, no harm done) - Irbis
Azreal13 wrote: People will protest, but not by withholding actual funds, and therefore it won't matter.
Well, speak for yourself. Me, I've just decided I don't want that much the Necromunda and Horus Heresy stuff I was gonna buy anyway. I'll just go directly to print it myself.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Baragash wrote: What impact does the currency paid in have on import duty?
Basically none whatsoever. The only possible impact it could have is that your local currency suddenly plummets between the time you make the order and the time it gets stopped at customs, in which case import duty would be proportionally higher. Other than that... zip and nil.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/23 15:58:57
SeanDrake wrote: So after all this frothing about FW moving to the same price structure as main GW I assume you will be boycotting all GW sales?
Thought not.
If you pay actual retail for GW stuff in the US, you're not doing it right. However, FW can't be bought from eBay or local stores that offer discounts. People react more strongly to things being taken away from them that they were used to.
Azreal13 wrote: People will protest, but not by withholding actual funds, and therefore it won't matter.
Well, speak for yourself. Me, I've just decided I don't want that much the Necromunda and Horus Heresy stuff I was gonna buy anyway. I'll just go directly to print it myself.
Ok, the Dakka disease of taking issue with the specific while not really appreciating the general. Of course some people will reduce or eliminate spending, just not enough to make any significant difference ultimately, and nowhere near the amount who'll grumble about price.
SeanDrake wrote: So after all this frothing about FW moving to the same price structure as main GW I assume you will be boycotting all GW sales?
Thought not.
If you pay actual retail for GW stuff in the US, you're not doing it right. However, FW can't be bought from eBay or local stores that offer discounts. People react more strongly to things being taken away from them that they were used to.
Just because you got a discount didn't magically mean you weren't rewarding the underlying approach. That 20% may have meant the item became affordable/acceptable to you, but the underlying RRP was still going up, the regional pricing disparity was still happening and GW were still pocketing your cash.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/23 16:14:48
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
If you pay actual retail for GW stuff in the US, you're not doing it right. However, FW can't be bought from eBay or local stores that offer discounts. People react more strongly to things being taken away from them that they were used to.
Just because you got a discount didn't magically mean you weren't rewarding the underlying approach. That 20% may have meant the item became affordable/acceptable to you, but the underlying RRP was still going up, the regional pricing disparity was still happening and GW were still pocketing your cash.
They're pocketing my cash because I'm giving them money in exchange for a product that I want at a price that seems reasonable to me. If FW introduced a way for me to buy items at a discount that brought things more in line with UK prices I would consider buying that too. As it is, they took an already overpriced product and are making me pay on top of that. That is no longer reasonable to me, so I will not exchange my money for their product.
SeanDrake wrote: So after all this frothing about FW moving to the same price structure as main GW I assume you will be boycotting all GW sales?
I can walk into a store and buy GW stuff, and get it 15% off in a few places- not so much with Forge World. It's not 'the same price structure' by any stretch, because GW hasn't launched prices up 25% overnight and then tried to tell me it was an improvement. I will not be buying from Forge World until they re-calculate.
So after all this frothing about FW moving to the same price structure as main GW I assume you will be boycotting all GW sales?
For the most part yes. I do purchase things on the secondary market. Also I tend to purchase the faction cards. But for the most part my 40k armies have become kitbashes from other companies or scratchbuilds. GW models only when STEEPLY discounted. I recently purchased a Knight for $68 on Ebay (GW sprue, probably from IKR). Compared to the $140 retail price of that kit, I'd say it was a deep enough discount to not feel bad about the forced exchange rates. I'd say that I was the target audience for Adeptus Titanicus, save that the forced exchange rate made me decide not to purchase it at all. Kill team same thing, only less of the target audience. But yeah, I would say the forced exchange rate has caused me to purchase tons less than I would have otherwise. Now with more Forgeworld.
SeanDrake wrote: So after all this frothing about FW moving to the same price structure as main GW I assume you will be boycotting all GW sales?
Thought not.
If you pay actual retail for GW stuff in the US, you're not doing it right. However, FW can't be bought from eBay or local stores that offer discounts. People react more strongly to things being taken away from them that they were used to.
Ofcourse it can be, china fw offers great discounts!
Well, more people will turn to recasts but who is to be blaimed, probably recasters because they charge 50$ while fw charges 430$ for knight,lol
While that's great, some other items are up 20-40%. Looking at one unit is not representative at all (just like Tneva shaming people because prices barely changed in Finland...has zero effect on price changes in the US or Australia, etc.).
Last month I bought two DKoK Centaurs from Forgeworld.
Cost+Shipping+Taxes came to $146.90
That same order in my card today comes to:
Cost+Shipping+Sales Tax = $145.26
Granted this is with the free shipping deal, but the difference is much less than I thought it would be.
I found my order from June and made calculations with exchange rate that Paypal applied for that order and figuring the inclusion of local state tax vs sales tax that FW charged me, my order went up 13%. So not as bad as the changes indicate without the additional calculations, but I also don't think their operating expenses jumped 13% by the addition of local warehouses. Improving logistics like that should really make things cheaper...otherwise why would you invest in the infrastructure if it makes things more expensive.
Happy I got my last order before the change. Grif and the booster would have been more expensive...
warboss wrote: Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
Last month I bought two DKoK Centaurs from Forgeworld.
Cost+Shipping+Taxes came to $146.90
That same order in my card today comes to:
Cost+Shipping+Sales Tax = $145.26
Granted this is with the free shipping deal, but the difference is much less than I thought it would be.
I found my order from June and made calculations with exchange rate that Paypal applied for that order and figuring the inclusion of local state tax vs sales tax that FW charged me, my order went up 13%. So not as bad as the changes indicate without the additional calculations, but I also don't think their operating expenses jumped 13% by the addition of local warehouses. Improving logistics like that should really make things cheaper...otherwise why would you invest in the infrastructure if it makes things more expensive.
Yeah, this was also figured out using the free shipping promotion right now. Otherwise I think your numbers are more accurate. I know I won't be ordering much from Forgeworld if at all anymore.
SeanDrake wrote: So after all this frothing about FW moving to the same price structure as main GW I assume you will be boycotting all GW sales?
Thought not.
GW"s regional trading policy (when they stopped us from being able to buy direct from the UK or US) already killed off most of my purchasing, other than the occasional eBay purchase. So yes, Forgeworld moving to the same pricing structure means I'll be sticking to eBay for that too.
I just love how FW bake the VAT into the pre-conversion price.
How do they get away with that?
Doesn't it show up on their books that they are charging for it, but not forwarding it on to the proper channels?
Bam, said the lady!
DR:70S+GM++B+I+Pw40k09/f++D++A(WTF)/hWD153R+++T(S)DM++++ Dakka, what is good in life?
To crush other websites,
See their user posts driven before you,
And hear the lamentation of the newbs.
-Frazzled-10/22/09
skrulnik wrote: I just love how FW bake the VAT into the pre-conversion price.
How do they get away with that?
Doesn't it show up on their books that they are charging for it, but not forwarding it on to the proper channels?
I vaguely recall FW claiming in the past that their prices are set as if there is no Vat, to cover overseas purchases, and they 'wear' the VAT for UK purchases. Which sounded like nonsense, but I'm no expert on UK retail pricing.
This is actually bull . This hobby that I love is not worth my entire paycheck. Everything Im buying from FW this point on will be from recasters and I now have absolutely zero pause to do so.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/24 02:48:14
SeanDrake wrote: So after all this frothing about FW moving to the same price structure as main GW I assume you will be boycotting all GW sales?
Thought not.
That’s a fair question, and I have a few thoughts on the matter.
If Forge World had always had the same pricing system as GW, there wouldn’t be as many complaints as we’re hearing now. Some, but not as many… because a lot of players would never have started buying from FW. The low pound and lack of regional markup enabled Forge World sales in Australia and New Zealand, where their models were cost-competitive with GW plastics, and to a lesser extent in the US. And that had knock-on effects, because the Horus Heresy’s popularity in Australia led to a podcast that kicked off other podcasts around the world, and together they appear to be responsible for a surprising proportion of 30k players’ entry into the game. With the typical GW regional markup, the customer base would never have grown as much.
Games Workshop’s products have been successful despite that markup - recently, at least - because their prices simply haven’t been as high as FW’s. Most people feel like GW’s UK prices are alright. “Alright” plus a regional markup makes for a price that’s stretching it but fans can still handle, e.g. 110 AUD (62 GBP) for a plastic Land Raider. Forge World takes “stretching it” prices and now takes them further, e.g. 220 AUD (124 GBP) for a FW Land Raider Proteus. And you can usually get GW kits discounted through 3rd party retailers. In the US that often gets you out of paying sales taxes.
Finally, it’s been a tough year with Forge World. The last Horus Heresy campaign book was much-maligned, as were the minis for the most recent legion to be introduced (Space Wolves). Then a large number of FW products were removed from production week by week, in a way that make it difficult for players to plan their purchases and really dampened the tone of conversation among 30k players (it also led to some hysteria - that, at least, was dealt with). Then Adeptus Titanicus pricing was announced, and given that it followed typical GW patterns I was surprised by the outrage. But outrage there was, and that made it a particularly bad time to jack up international prices. If they’d made the change 6 months ago, I think there’d be half the anger and half the threats to ragequit.
Whoa, actual content today, not just unreleases and exchange rate scamming:
Too bad she's $999999999999 if you have to pay the non-UK tax.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
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. This hobby that I love is not worth my entire paycheck. Everything Im buying from 