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Bubbalicious wrote:
Pure speculation:
CB tried to bring back life to the sectorial with new models but sales for the range is still low (What i heard they were very low before they got updated sculpts to) so they got axed before the others to free up SKU space.
And does this mean that each faction will be capt at 3 production sectorials at a time since poth PanO and Ariadna has four with one not supported with models?

The only "new models" that the Sectorial saw were:
Shock Army starter set, which was awful in terms of its setup(it's way heavy on SWC for the points and they crammed a stupid Knight in there)
Bagh-Mari boxed set and HMG blister

The other stuff(which is really just the Akali Spitfire and Akali BSG) were released prior to the Sectorial's starter set release.

If they wanted to "bring back life to the Sectorial", they screwed the pooch from the outset. They got the result they wanted.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Bubbalicious wrote:
Pure speculation:
CB tried to bring back life to the sectorial with new models but sales for the range is still low (What i heard they were very low before they got updated sculpts to) so they got axed before the others to free up SKU space.
And does this mean that each faction will be capt at 3 production sectorials at a time since poth PanO and Ariadna has four with one not supported with models?

The only "new models" that the Sectorial saw were:
Shock Army starter set, which was awful in terms of its setup(it's way heavy on SWC for the points and they crammed a stupid Knight in there)
Bagh-Mari boxed set and HMG blister

The other stuff(which is really just the Akali Spitfire and Akali BSG) were released prior to the Sectorial's starter set release.

If they wanted to "bring back life to the Sectorial", they screwed the pooch from the outset. They got the result they wanted.

This is one of the biggest issues with getting people into the game, and I know it's a dead horse by now, but it's stupid that their starters aren't starters and several aren't legally playable. Really make me wonder how they come to such a decision.

B-b-but Acontecimento is cool! Sadness.

Starters were always envisioned as a point to start and expand the faction, not as a fully balanced ready to go "starter set" to be played on the same level as the other starter sets, I know its not the usual logic of starter sets, but still a valid viewpoint.

 Knight wrote:
B-b-but Acontecimento is cool! Sadness.

Ya, think of the RPG players losing access to models for their characters... (It's weird that the war-game is pruning off flavour as the RPG expands it.)

CB really should rethink what they want to do for N4 before they demi-squat the least popular (read: lowest selling) sectorials. Soon they'll end up with GW's problem of only making space marines because only space marine sell. OK, Infinity isn't as bad as 40K that way, but there seems to be a funnelling effect to put it mildly.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
Starters were always envisioned as a point to start and expand the faction, not as a fully balanced ready to go "starter set" to be played on the same level as the other starter sets, I know its not the usual logic of starter sets, but still a valid viewpoint.

And yet more factions than not have them as playable.

This excuse has not and will not ever fly.

They are based on "what do we feel the players would need to have them as the core of their 300pts army" sometimes it is basic troops, sometimes it is SWC options, sometimes the points are cheap, sometimes the box is almost half the list.

Wait, that's not the new ASA starter is it? Damn, looks like I have to panic buy that and the Bagh Maris while I still can.

 LunarSol wrote:
They said there will be one of these for every new sectorial added. I can't say I'm surprised, nor will I be when Corregidor vanishes.

Corregidor vanishes. Dude, that is some weak trollin'. CB loves them some Nomads. Corregidor is going nowhere.

About the month's releases: Those Haqq remotes look nice. I may eventually get them. The Asuras too. A very nice looking set of releases for this month.

Well, ASA. Not good news. I do want CB to soften the blow by fixing Kirpal Singh, among other things. And make the resculpted Montesa spitfire available as a single.

 LunarSol wrote:
They said there will be one of these for every new sectorial added. I can't say I'm surprised, nor will I be when Corregidor vanishes.

Thankfully Nomads aren’t due for a 4th sectorial anytime soon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I would have thought NCA would get axed before ASA (sorry Kan).
Other than MO, I really don’t understand what the identity of the PanO sectorials is supposed to be. I know their places in the fluff, but in execution they sound like they’d play in alignment with that identity.

I feel they would get better traction with sectorials if Vanilla lists weren’t the predominant way the game was still played. Considering the direction the game has gone, one would think Vanilla lists would have been eliminated by now...

 Bladerunner2019 wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
They said there will be one of these for every new sectorial added. I can't say I'm surprised, nor will I be when Corregidor vanishes.

Thankfully Nomads aren’t due for a 4th sectorial anytime soon.

Probably the case, but it's not one in one out on a faction level either.

 LunarSol wrote:

 Bladerunner2019 wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
They said there will be one of these for every new sectorial added. I can't say I'm surprised, nor will I be when Corregidor vanishes.

Thankfully Nomads aren’t due for a 4th sectorial anytime soon.

Probably the case, but it's not one in one out on a faction level either.

That's literally what's happening. Varuna is getting added, Shock Army is being removed. We still have Svalarheim to consider as well.

Bladerunner2019 wrote:I would have thought NCA would get axed before ASA (sorry Kan).
Other than MO, I really don’t understand what the identity of the PanO sectorials is supposed to be. I know their places in the fluff, but in execution they sound like they’d play in alignment with that identity.

I feel they would get better traction with sectorials if Vanilla lists weren’t the predominant way the game was still played. Considering the direction the game has gone, one would think Vanilla lists would have been eliminated by now...

Honestly? I thought NCA would go first too. They don't know what the hell they're doing with them and it's clear they have no interest in addressing the issues there. They want to have their cake and eat it too with the Military Orders, and realistically that faction should have been amputated when we got the Non-Aligned Armies added in.

I just hope Svalarheima is still a go for Pan-O.

Hard to believe it wouldn't be, but who the hell know what CB is thinking these days?

To me this goes along with "we want you to buy new products". Svalarheima seems in the green, especially, if it's going to share a number of models with MO and generic force.

Toni tried to warn you all against this madness and CB killed her and then came after Army of Acontecimento!

 Monkeysloth wrote:


This is one of the biggest issues with getting people into the game, and I know it's a dead horse by now, but it's stupid that their starters aren't starters and several aren't legally playable. Really make me wonder how they come to such a decision.

Years and years of players complaining that the starter weren't a good value because they couldn't contain the most ideal models. Players begged for the kind of starters we have now for years.

Hopefully they wouldn't ever kill a Sectorial off permanently. As in, never ever have any new physical releases for it ever again.

Frankly, CB just needs to get smarter about how they release stuff for this game. Multi-part kits for one thing would let them decrease SKU count if that is a genuine problem. One figure which could be assembled as many different models is eminently possible. They're even doing it in practical terms with their new 4 man boxes that have different arms on the same body. They just need to expand on that more.

One could easily manage to have a single blister for each unit, that could make several different profiles.


Take the Blackjack. That is a unit which has 2 SKUs when it could easily, trivially, get away with one. Just pack the Sniper Rifle and HMG bits in the same kit with one body. Charge a little extra to cover the cost and you are golden.

A unit should really only have multiple SKUs if it is a basic core unit.

I feel like certain sectorials going away has been inevitable and obvious for a few years now. CB has been talking about their limited design and production capabilities for years. They can only support so many armies at a time. As long ago as 2013 they noted that eventually some sectorials would be complete and they could move on to other projects.

Honestly, I feel like this is a good thing. I play Shock Army frequently and love it, and have no problem with this.

- The army will still be 100% playable.

- The models are still available for sale now, and will likely not be very hard to find in the future (I rarely have trouble finding out of production Infinity models, even super old stuff. I';m guessing recent ASA stuff will be available at good prices for years).

- The current range of models look great and don't really need an update.

This is kind of an ideal situation for a product range that needs to be discontinued. I honestly don't see what there is to complain about, unless you were a die hard ASA player who was hoping for a serious expansion in the future. If you were, you have my sympathy. But I'm guessing there aren't many of those out there.

I full expect we'll see many other armies discontinued in the same way in the future. Possibly eventually every HS era sectorial. We should get used to it. The game is changing and growing, but we're not losing anything in the process. This is a good thing.

 jake wrote:
CB has been talking about their limited design and production capabilities for years.

Its one thing to say that.

Its another to say it while wasting the allegedly limited design and production capabilities on stuff like TAG Pilots and Tech BEE, who got rules after the fact. Or making a million different HVT figures.

For a company that moans about limited resources, they don't act like a company with limited resources. They seem to actively go out of the way to have the most inefficient SKU layout possible.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Hopefully they wouldn't ever kill a Sectorial off permanently. As in, never ever have any new physical releases for it ever again.

Frankly, CB just needs to get smarter about how they release stuff for this game. Multi-part kits for one thing would let them decrease SKU count if that is a genuine problem. One figure which could be assembled as many different models is eminently possible. They're even doing it in practical terms with their new 4 man boxes that have different arms on the same body. They just need to expand on that more.

One could easily manage to have a single blister for each unit, that could make several different profiles.


Take the Blackjack. That is a unit which has 2 SKUs when it could easily, trivially, get away with one. Just pack the Sniper Rifle and HMG bits in the same kit with one body. Charge a little extra to cover the cost and you are golden.

A unit should really only have multiple SKUs if it is a basic core unit.

The 4 man boxes aren't new. They've been doing those for over 10 years.

Also, while I agree that your BlackJack solution is viable, this community has thrown massive fits over stuff like that before. Fits that have gone on for years. Its an idea that some people love and some people hate.

Packing extra arms into a blister might help a little, but it won't solve the overall problem of too many armies. The current solution of discontinuing model lines while allowing the army itself to still exist is a much better approach. They can bring back ASA, MRRF or any other army at any time if they decide to (they still have all the assets) or produce new models or rules for those armies, and in the meantime the armies themselves are completely playable and the models are widely available.

As a side note, while i appreciate the economy of having multiple sets of arms for the same figures, in my opinion it usually creates one nice looking figures and one poor, awkward or silly looking one. Many of the 2 body/4 model boxes have 2 great looking models, and 2 that I'd rather not put on the table. Additionally, I don't like having duplicate models in my army, so having the same three guys with different guns isn't appealing to me at all. Thats why I didn't buy the Shotgun Devil Dog, despite being really excited about the unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 jake wrote:
CB has been talking about their limited design and production capabilities for years.

Its one thing to say that.

Its another to say it while wasting the allegedly limited design and production capabilities on stuff like TAG Pilots and Tech BEE, who got rules after the fact. Or making a million different HVT figures.

For a company that moans about limited resources, they don't act like a company with limited resources. They seem to actively go out of the way to have the most inefficient SKU layout possible.

The TAG pilots were very popular, and the community had been begging for them for years. Same with the HVT models. Making them was hardly a mistake. Again, the problem clearly isn't individual models, but entire armies. They've talked about this several times in the past. they can't support this many individual armies.

Theres a LOT of venom in this thread over what seems to be a very good and fan/player friendly decision on CB's part. I'm not actually sure what you're all so angry about. I'm going to chalk this up to "Gamers are furious about everything, no matter what" and step away.

 jake wrote:
I feel like certain sectorials going away has been inevitable and obvious for a few years now. CB has been talking about their limited design and production capabilities for years. They can only support so many armies at a time. As long ago as 2013 they noted that eventually some sectorials would be complete and they could move on to other projects.

It's understanable that they can't keep such a huge catalog going for retail but it's kind of silly to say a sectorial is "complete" then stop selling it. At least make it direct order. Since it won't be in distrubution doing so won't be that much of a workload to just spin some up every once and a while (even state on their website that they only ship the product once a month or something).

It always feels like they're making the wrong decisions for the right reasons and that there should be a better way for them to solve their problems (like multi part kits). Even though, in the long run, this doesn't really hurt current players at any level (especially comparied to the JSA debocle earlier this year) it still is just bad optics and makes people think the company is having issues or is just greedy and trying to force people to buy new stuff (even though the old stuff is legal). It doesn't help when I was at a con where Carlos was and he flat out said that 2018 would be a good year if CB could get people to stop playing their old armies and buy new ones. Sure the contex was more in that CB hopes all the new stuff is so awesome people want to play it but context is lost once it gets posted on the forum or social media.

It's going to be more of an issue as more things dissapear. If they really need to remove one army to add another that means theoretically Pan-O will loose an army every year or two and get to the point where they just cycle between complete armies being avalible for purchase with noting new ever really comming -- which is just strange for a game to do.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Hopefully they wouldn't ever kill a Sectorial off permanently. As in, never ever have any new physical releases for it ever again.

According to the forums it's been almost 5 years since both MRRF and Shas went on "Hold" with Shas slated for next year so it could be a very long time to see this come back.

Meh this just killed the fledgling infinty scene in my area, no one is going to start a game that regularly effectively kills armies.

Also we have a couple of yu players and a merro player who were unhappy and now an aggrieved shock army player. It all has left a bad taste in people's mouths when also.talking CB's official position has been a little shoddy.

SeanDrake wrote:
Meh this just killed the fledgling infinty scene in my area, no one is going to start a game that regularly effectively kills armies.

Also we have a couple of yu players and a merro player who were unhappy and now an aggrieved shock army player. It all has left a bad taste in people's mouths when also.talking CB's official position has been a little shoddy.

The MRRF and SAA players are aware the rules aren’t going anywhere right? If they already had the models it doesn’t affect them at all. Mero were improved though the process, in fact.

Lots of folk need a continual drip of new releases otherwise they get bored and give up as the game is 'dead', so it's hardly surprising that CB doing this is going to drive some players away

but that isn't necessarily a bad thing (well except for those players) if in doing so it gives them enough design space to carry on releasing other stuff and so keep the majority of the player base happy and retailers on side with a control of SKUs

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Lots of folk need a continual drip of new releases otherwise they get bored and give up as the game is 'dead', so it's hardly surprising that CB doing this is going to drive some players away

but that isn't necessarily a bad thing (well except for those players) if in doing so it gives them enough design space to carry on releasing other stuff and so keep the majority of the player base happy and retailers on side with a control of SKUs

You know what else would "control SKUs"?

Corvus Belli not releasing things in a pants on head idiotic fashion.

The overall response from MRRF was especially positive with negative response lower than expected, if nothing else MRRF tournament appearance has increased after the update, I have no data on SAA (or ASA) of course as it has not happened yet.

That does not mean we do not look or take into account negative responses, we value all feedback.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

 Bladerunner2019 wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
They said there will be one of these for every new sectorial added. I can't say I'm surprised, nor will I be when Corregidor vanishes.

Thankfully Nomads aren’t due for a 4th sectorial anytime soon.

Probably the case, but it's not one in one out on a faction level either.

That's literally what's happening. Varuna is getting added, Shock Army is being removed. We still have Svalarheim to consider as well.

While it was probably actually a result of the Tartary, they announced the removal of Mero as a result of the creation of Tunguska.

Each factions SKU levels are mostly independent from each other, so Tunguska should have minimal impact to other factions.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
The overall response from MRRF was especially positive with negative response lower than expected, if nothing else MRRF tournament appearance has increased after the update, I have no data on SAA (or ASA) of course as it has not happened yet.

That does not mean we do not look or take into account negative responses, we value all feedback.

"We"?

I didn't know you were officially part of CB - this is good to know!

 ImAGeek wrote:
The MRRF and SAA players are aware the rules aren’t going anywhere right? If they already had the models it doesn’t affect them at all. Mero were improved though the process, in fact.

Primarily, to me, the most concerning is cutting off the potential new players. If you enjoy talking about SAA you're going to find yourself talking to an ever decreasing number of people. A small release does work wonders to attract new interests as well as keeping players who simply find their niche very happy. New content also works, from story to art, however, if a company is willing to drop the production of a product, it doesn't really look good. The question is why would you try to make content for a product that's effectively dead in the production and selling sense?

The rules can be problematic in the sense how you're going to handle syncing with the release of ever more power rules and meta. This doesn't concern me as I've jumped out of ITS a long time ago.

 Mysterio wrote:

"We"?

I didn't know you were officially part of CB - this is good to know!

We as part of the feedback mechanism, not as a CB employee, sorry if this got confusing.

Edit
But I can assure you no feedack is blocked, especially negative, CB does not live in an echo chamber of positive viewpoints.