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 Amishprn86 wrote:
You and we dont know they "didnt" sell well enough for them, and we dont know if its the investors telling them not to update them.

We dont know, no one will know unless GW themselves says so.

No, we don't know for sure, but do you have a more plausible reason? Why do you think the investors would tell GW not to update them? Investors like money dude. If they thought there'd be a return on their release they'd do it in a heartbeat.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
In regards to the original question (and not the idiot argument going on above) I would be ecstatic. I have over 10k of fully painted and based Sisters and transports and I would quite happily buy that over again in plastic.

WOW thats a lot lol, i have like 90 ish metal bodies, and i too would re-buy them in a heart beat.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
In regards to the original question (and not the idiot argument going on above) I would be ecstatic. I have over 10k of fully painted and based Sisters and transports and I would quite happily buy that over again in plastic.

WOW thats a lot lol, i have like 90 ish metal bodies, and i too would re-buy them in a heart beat.

Yeah I have a few hundred of the metla models which i like and hundreds of pounds waiting for the plastics

What exactly makes you think a sisters release would ahve to be significantly bigger than the GSC/Harlequin/Admech releases that you justified as a "small investment"?

GSC: 2 clampack sprues (upgrade kit and iconward), 1 large vehicle kit, 2 infantry squad boxes, 1 command squad box.

Harlequins: 1 vehicle, 1 biker box, 1 infantry squad box, 3 clampacks

Admech: 1 large vehicle, 1 small vehicle, 2 large elite infantry boxes, 2 small elite infantry boxes, 1 infantry squad box, 1 clampack.

Sisters (not counting existing plastics): 1 vehicle kit (includes Rhino sprue which exists already), 1 small vehicle (Penitent/maybe something new as dual kit), 2 small elite infantry boxes (Repentia and Seraphim each with a chance for a dual option), 1 troop box, 1 clampack for a canoness.

If their 10-model troop kit included a melta, flamer, storm bolter, heavy bolter, multi-melta, heavy flamer, a banner with two options for tops, and a few sets of melee gear/special pistols for the superiors, and a variety of head options, you would right there cover like 7 units plus Dialogus/Imagifier.

Compare that to the GSC release and you need 1 fewer clampack and 1 more small 5-model elite box. 2 fewer clampacks, 2 more elite boxes than harlequins. Nowhere near admech.

They are re-releasing projects with the existing fanbase the size of the existing Genestealer Cult fanbase, the existing Necromunda fanbase, and the existing Blood Bowl fanbase. The sisters fanbase is big enough to compete. We're there, man.

A full sisters release is pretty much inevitable at this point, the only question is when is a good time for GW to release them. My guess is around the summer or an announcement/preview at a big con.

the_scotsman wrote:
What exactly makes you think a sisters release would ahve to be significantly bigger than the GSC/Harlequin/Admech releases that you justified as a "small investment"

Nothing, for me, but the sisters fan base seems to have very high expectations about what they'll get (apart from the bloke who was happy with just a codex previously lol) so maybe that factors in to it. You make a good point, I don't think there'll be a release this summer though. We got Custardes to get through yet and that didn't go down particularly well.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
What exactly makes you think a sisters release would ahve to be significantly bigger than the GSC/Harlequin/Admech releases that you justified as a "small investment"

Nothing, for me, but the sisters fan base seems to have very high expectations about what they'll get (apart from the bloke who was happy with just a codex previously lol) so maybe that factors in to it. You make a good point, I don't think there'll be a release this summer though. We got Custardes to get through yet and that didn't go down particularly well.

This is because you're clearly an Ork player or something and have no intention or care if Sisters even existed. Just stop with your moronic argument. Nobody cares.

 mmzero252 wrote:
This is because you're clearly an Ork player or something and have no intention or care if Sisters even existed. Just stop with your moronic argument. Nobody cares.

Yea I'm an ork player and I couldn't care less if sister existed or not. That doesn't make my argument "moronic" though. Stuff that doesn't sell (unsurprisingly) doesn't get invested in. Welcome to the wonderful world of business.

hell at this point sisters are basically a honorary xenos army with their treatment.
plastic sisters would be what finally gets me to build a human based army honestly

GW has a long history of leaving money on the table and being "shocked" at how well something sells when they do finally release it. See: Dark Eldar, Blood Bowl. I wouldn't read anything into their release schedule other than their biases and a modicum of incompetence.

Did DE sell well? They lost a whole lot after their peak with new Codex, as heroes new and old were forgotten due to not getting new miniatures (like Sliscus etc.)

 Shadenuat wrote:
Did DE sell well? They lost a whole lot after their peak with new Codex, as heroes new and old were forgotten due to not getting new miniatures (like Sliscus etc.)

Dark Eldar were the last "Grand army release" for a good reason.

Dark Eldar had: 3 large vehicle kits, 2 small vehicle/monster kits, 6 5-man elite unit boxes, 2 10-man troop unit boxes, and something like 14 clampacks. Virtually nothing besides a couple old clampacks were preserved.

That right there is what you call an actual big investment risk, 3-4 times the size of any of the current large model range releases. They did fairly well, but the investment was obviously a big enough risk that GW has never done it again, even large model range reboots like Necrons that came after were half that size or less.

Even if they went completely all-out with the sisters release, redesigned the Exorcist as a non rhino-based vehicle and gave it a second optional variant, threw in a brand new flyer, and added 2-3 new clampack special characters, they would never even come close to half the size of the DE reboot. the DE reboot included more kits than Admech, GSC, and Harlequins combined.

RULE #1 (BE POLITE) is taking a beating in here - that needs to stop. Immediately.

IF YOU CANNOT POST ABOUT SOMETHING WITHIN THE BOUNDS OF THE THREE SIMPLE RULES WE HAVE HERE, THEN DO NOT POST.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/core/forum_rules.jsp

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
What exactly makes you think a sisters release would ahve to be significantly bigger than the GSC/Harlequin/Admech releases that you justified as a "small investment"

Nothing, for me, but the sisters fan base seems to have very high expectations about what they'll get (apart from the bloke who was happy with just a codex previously lol) so maybe that factors in to it. You make a good point, I don't think there'll be a release this summer though. We got Custardes to get through yet and that didn't go down particularly well.

I'm happy with what we have, too, otherwise I would be using the money to buy 3 times the number of Imperial Guardsmen.


We tend to get antsy because GW can release completely new 3-unit tiny factions like the Custodians, while still passing us over, when almost our entire line would be covered by 3 infantry sprues.


The thing is, any plastic stuff would be targeted at new players joining us. I've said this before. Current Sisters players both already have a fair amount of stuff, and are willing to pay $80 for basic infantry squads. I don't really put much stock in plastic-sisters rumors, I'd just like a vaguely decent codex that acknowledges us as a faction.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 mmzero252 wrote:
This is because you're clearly an Ork player or something and have no intention or care if Sisters even existed. Just stop with your moronic argument. Nobody cares.

Yea I'm an ork player and I couldn't care less if sister existed or not. That doesn't make my argument "moronic" though. Stuff that doesn't sell (unsurprisingly) doesn't get invested in. Welcome to the wonderful world of business.

But your argument is "I don't like them, so no one else does."

I honestly think Sisters are being kept back till Summer to get a big relaunch as sort of a celebration that all the army books are updated to 8th. I have to be honest though, I'm not sure I'd re-buy an entire army of them. I have plenty of basic girls so I'd only buy a few normal girls, I would buy multiple Repentia and Seraphim boxes though since I have the least of them.

 Sim-Life wrote:
But your argument is "I don't like them, so no one else does."

I'd suggest you read my posts again because you've obviously misinterpreted my argument. It is completely irrelevant if I like them or not, THE MARKET seems to 'not like them' because if they were popular they'd have been invested in already.

I agree with Katherine, new models are for new sisters players. GW need to make a decision as to what that looks like in terms of potential sales.

Going back to OP’s question, at this point I could care less about which codexes get released next. What does matter to me is how much time it takes to get to the codexes I want. If Orks get their codex dead last but due to rapid-fire release schedule it still gets published by summer, then that’s great. If we get 2 more codexes this year and Orks get pushed back until 2019, then I’m annoyed even though orks are relatively close to the front of the queue. Hopefully GW ramps up their schedule so that everyone can get what they want.

No, we don't know for sure, but do you have a more plausible reason? Why do you think the investors would tell GW not to update them? Investors like money dude. If they thought there'd be a return on their release they'd do it in a heartbeat.

Stuff that doesn't sell (unsurprisingly) doesn't get invested in. Welcome to the wonderful world of business.

You really think investors are in the down and dirty with information and what the playerbase wants? You seriously overestimate investors intentions and involvement. Considering the fact that you brush over years of Kirby reign and the downright atrocious plans they had then.

Again, you have no data to back up the data that sisters don't sell well. This is just baseless guesses on your part. I might sound cruel for pointing this out, but at this point everybody has gone over why you might be wrong and you're still using limited view of business reasoning that does not have much basis in the real world. I mean, if the world really worked by your way of thinking we wouldn't even have a game or movie industry as it would be "too risky" by your own words. Do we get Star Wars and Call of Duty year after year? Yes, but that doesn't stop studios from diversifying their portfolio by releasing new and often weird stuff in an attempt to get a larger market share. Hell, even gakky/low market share IP like Hellraiser are getting a new damn movie soon and Sony Films keeps on doing horrible movies despite losses.

Here is the thing: You have absolutely no idea how Sisters would sell as your argument for that they will not sell is based either off their release decades ago or their expensive, direct order, metal version compared to easily accessible and cheap plastic factions(that you think there is a comparison between the two is just laughable). The fact that they are still being sold while more affordable and accessible lines are available tells us that the line is doing fine all things considered. Especially considering the fact that GW has currently had no qualms about cancelling metal and finecast molds. We could also throw in the mix that Third Party are doing rather well making female models that could be used as sisters and/or kits that would allow you to modify existing Warhammer models. In fact, there is a large Facebook group(600+ people) who are doing just that: kitbashing marines into female power armor models.

It would also not be a huge risk as they can make the core kits(that could have multiple variations like the Deathwing Terminator box) while keeping some kits still in metal. Hell, if they would release plastic for Battle Sister Squad, Repentia, Seraphim, and a rhino chassis(with the unique options involved) it would be about 4 kits while other parts of the army could still remain metal. That in itself would be a game changer and a smaller release than some of the more recent "risky" investments that you have no qualms about. If we would take the optimal list in its entirety it would be something like.

Rhino variants

Battle Sister Squad/Options for Command Squad that includes canoness

Penitent Engine

Repentia Squad

Seraphim Squad

This would be about the same size as the Genestealer Cult release.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:
But your argument is "I don't like them, so no one else does."

I'd suggest you read my posts again because you've obviously misinterpreted my argument. It is completely irrelevant if I like them or not, THE MARKET seems to 'not like them' because if they were popular they'd have been invested in already.

I agree with Katherine, new models are for new sisters players. GW need to make a decision as to what that looks like in terms of potential sales.

As a dedicated genestealer cult player, sisters are move viable than a nitch army that was used to push more delaque and imperial guard back in second edition. Sisters have at least been mentioned in the last five editions. And yet, I've got cool plastic genestealer cult. After most of us gave up and walked a way editions ago.

 Eldarsif wrote:

No, we don't know for sure, but do you have a more plausible reason? Why do you think the investors would tell GW not to update them? Investors like money dude. If they thought there'd be a return on their release they'd do it in a heartbeat.

Stuff that doesn't sell (unsurprisingly) doesn't get invested in. Welcome to the wonderful world of business.

You really think investors are in the down and dirty with information and what the playerbase wants? You seriously overestimate investors intentions and involvement. Considering the fact that you brush over years of Kirby reign and the downright atrocious plans they had then.

Again, you have no data to back up the data that sisters don't sell well. This is just baseless guesses on your part. I might sound cruel for pointing this out, but at this point everybody has gone over why you might be wrong and you're still using limited view of business reasoning that does not have much basis in the real world. I mean, if the world really worked by your way of thinking we wouldn't even have a game or movie industry as it would be "too risky" by your own words. Do we get Star Wars and Call of Duty year after year? Yes, but that doesn't stop studios from diversifying their portfolio by releasing new and often weird stuff in an attempt to get a larger market share. Hell, even gakky/low market share IP like Hellraiser are getting a new damn movie soon and Sony Films keeps on doing horrible movies despite losses.

Here is the thing: You have absolutely no idea how Sisters would sell as your argument for that they will not sell is based either off their release decades ago or their expensive, direct order, metal version compared to easily accessible and cheap plastic factions(that you think there is a comparison between the two is just laughable). The fact that they are still being sold while more affordable and accessible lines are available tells us that the line is doing fine all things considered. Especially considering the fact that GW has currently had no qualms about cancelling metal and finecast molds. We could also throw in the mix that Third Party are doing rather well making female models that could be used as sisters and/or kits that would allow you to modify existing Warhammer models. In fact, there is a large Facebook group(600+ people) who are doing just that: kitbashing marines into female power armor models.

It would also not be a huge risk as they can make the core kits(that could have multiple variations like the Deathwing Terminator box) while keeping some kits still in metal. Hell, if they would release plastic for Battle Sister Squad, Repentia, Seraphim, and a rhino chassis(with the unique options involved) it would be about 4 kits while other parts of the army could still remain metal. That in itself would be a game changer and a smaller release than some of the more recent "risky" investments that you have no qualms about. If we would take the optimal list in its entirety it would be something like.

Rhino variants

Battle Sister Squad/Options for Command Squad that includes canoness

Penitent Engine

Repentia Squad

Seraphim Squad

This would be about the same size as the Genestealer Cult release.

To add to this, there's even less risk because the rhino variant could literally be a top piece and accessories. It could be a "Rhino Upgrade Kit".

I have no doubt that a sisters release would see big sales at least initially. GW if nothing else has an effective hype machine and that with a combination of the existing player base as well as those who have held off for fear of the dreaded 'mee-tall' means the amount of plastic they'd need to recreate the existing line in plastic is a relatively safe investment. Ideally their transition to plastic would resemble the one the Grey Knights went through, a success that was so complete that its truly the point where 'plastic sisters soon' started.

We can glean that the sisters still remain relatively active in terms of sales on the website, as availability of the line's more competitive (or middling competitive but very fun) entries remains shakey relative to demand. (Presently the storm bolter and penitent engine are back in stock, melta seems stable and heavy bolter maintains its record by being unavailable for weeks and selling out in under 24 hours.) Suggesting that, at least on that scale, GW is seeing demand outstrip supply.

Then you get curious case of Canoness Veridyan who, while limited to one per customer and surrounded by very vocal criticism about the model's look and anticipated quality, managed to sell out in under 30 minutes, well exceeding the demand of a typical 'event' style release.

How on earth is it "naive business reasoning" to assume that a business will build something that sells and will focus its efforts on these endeavours and will do the opposite to those items that don't sell? This is exactly how the real world works mate.

I've asked someone else and I'll ask you - give me a better reason. Explain to me a more plausible reason why GW haven't released plastic sisters yet? Show me where someone, anyone, has provided a more likely reason for the lack of investment in the line? Or are we back to the 'grand and malicious plan by GW to troll sisters players for eternity' (despite that making 0 sense)?

Investors don't have contact with the end user sure but I suspect, somehow, that they have incredibly detailed breakdowns of sales across all lines. I wonder what those sales figures have revealed?

The only thing I can agree with you on is that the market has probably changed and sisters might sell better now. Might. Keeping the metal line doesn't represent profitability by the way. They might have avoided "squatting" because GW fears the negative reception of the fan base to this would be worse than the cost of keeping them going as is.

This discussion is proving pointless, it's like arguing with a wall of non reason, like what I imagine discussing something with a chaos god is like. No one apart from GW employees know how well sisters sold way back when and no one knows how well they'd sell now. I have given you my belief as to why I think they didn't sell well back in the day. You have your opinions as to why they did (despite literally all evidence to the contrary).

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
[
So let me make myself clear. Sisters have already proved not to sell. Why do you think they aren't in plastic as we speak? Why do you think we don't have resin models for them? Some sinister plot from GW to get rid of them? To troll people who want them? Or perhaps because GW believes that they wouldn't make any money from them? What do you feel is the most likely?

You realize there can be easily other reasons than "not sell" don't you? GW is known for fact having quit entire game that they green lighted and exceeded their own sales expectations by _400%_.

You do NOT green light something if you don't expect it to sell sufficiently. Then it sells 400% more than you expected. And it gets canned. According to you it did not sell enough. Then why green light it in a first place investing resources if exceeding your own expectations by 400% is not enough?

Back in the day GW canned all their specialist games not because they weren't profitable (They were); but because they wanted to ride the ESDLA bubble and focus on their three big games.

To say that the only reason GW doesn't invest in something is because "It isn't profitable" is just being ignorant of the past of the company. Do you know the reason they did "Shadespire", the first big 100% competitive GW game, was because they where thinkering with how good push-fit miniatures they could do, and once they did them, the designer thought "Ey, this is too good to just sell them in Easy to Build kits, can we make a game to sell them?" and they said "Yes". BOOM. Shadespire was born. And this was said by the own designer of Shadespire.

Thats why I remain firm in my opinion of the reason GW hasn't done a proper SoB release: 100% girls don't sell bias and nobody was fan of them in the studio.

 Galas wrote:
Back in the day GW canned all their specialist games not because they weren't profitable (They were); but because they wanted to ride the ESDLA bubble and focus on their three big games.

Remind me what their 'big 3 games' are again and also what game Sisters belong to?

But if girls don't sell, why bother making Escher or a lady chaos character for AoS? That theory is inconsistent with their recent activity.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
But if girls don't sell, why bother making Escher or a lady chaos character for AoS? That theory is inconsistent with their recent activity.

GW said too that they where surprised how well SoS sold, just like Custodes. All those female models? The Custodes ladies, the Chaos Barbarian Warqueen, etc... they are testing the waters.

Looking back, this thread didnt even last 2 posts before the anti sister sentiment attitudes derailed this thread and now we have arguments.
None of what is being argued has anything to do with the topic.

Get back on topic and remain on topic or take your emotional arguments to your own pointless 'sisters should be squatted' thread for the mods to close down.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Nothing, for me, but the sisters fan base seems to have very high expectations about what they'll get (apart from the bloke who was happy with just a codex previously lol) so maybe that factors in to it. You make a good point, I don't think there'll be a release this summer though. We got Custardes to get through yet and that didn't go down particularly well.

I said I would be more than happy being rolled into an Imperial Agents Codex long after all the Xenos dexes were out. Just fix our problem units and give me some Sororitas objective cards!

I don't need anything else!

Giantwalkingchair wrote:
Looking back, this thread didnt even last 2 posts before the anti sister sentiment attitudes derailed this thread and now we have arguments.
None of what is being argued has anything to do with the topic.

Get back on topic and remain on topic or take your emotional arguments to your own pointless 'sisters should be squatted' thread for the mods to close down.

If Sisters of Battle are next codex after Custodes then Thousand Sons how would you feel?

Shocked. Surprised. I'd have the urge to buy a lottery ticket.

But saying sisters probably aren't popular sales-wise and that's the reason they probably haven't done them - that's not anti-sister. That's just reality. Sisters fans are loud and vocal, anyone who's frequented any forum will know that. That doesn't make them a majority or even significant in numbers though. GW are money grubbers, they follow the money. If there was money in sisters, they'd have done it.

 Torga_DW wrote:

Giantwalkingchair wrote:
Looking back, this thread didnt even last 2 posts before the anti sister sentiment attitudes derailed this thread and now we have arguments.
None of what is being argued has anything to do with the topic.

Get back on topic and remain on topic or take your emotional arguments to your own pointless 'sisters should be squatted' thread for the mods to close down.

If Sisters of Battle are next codex after Custodes then Thousand Sons how would you feel?

Shocked. Surprised. I'd have the urge to buy a lottery ticket.

But saying sisters probably aren't popular sales-wise and that's the reason they probably haven't done them - that's not anti-sister. That's just reality. Sisters fans are loud and vocal, anyone who's frequented any forum will know that. That doesn't make them a majority or even significant in numbers though. GW are money grubbers, they follow the money. If there was money in sisters, they'd have done it.

It's 100% anti-sister. What other faction that hasn't seen significant releases in a while have people said SHOULDN'T get released other than Sisters? In fact, take a look here.

Here are a list of factions that sell perfectly fine now that sold about the same or worse than Sisters in second edition, when the majority of SoB sculpts were released:

Gene-stealer Cults
Deathwatch
Custodes
Sisters of Silence
Necrons
Tau
Admech
Dark Eldar
Slaanesh(...ish. they honestly sell pretty close to SoB overall adjusted to how much worse SoB fair in cost.)
Grey-Knights
Imperial Knights
Harlequins

Most of these armies didn't exist back then and were made in response to consumer demand(hey, where have I seen that before?) or just the GW studio getting a wild hair up their butt about anime or something. All of them were massive risks. Others, like Gene-stealer cults, dark eldar, and Slaanesh, actually did sell like doggak until GW put out some cool stuff to refresh the line(Slaanesh got the smallest number of new releases and the small jump. It's almost like there's a pattern their Ron) and they took off like wild-fire(Like plenty of people claim a certain army would)

SoB are the ONLY army in the game that get this kind of pushback when it comes to a new release. No other army gets the same type of Sales=Releases talk that SoB get. No one says 'it'd be stupid to release Slaanesh because the don't sell' even though by all rights they don't. No one says 'Oh, Orkz aren't getting new releases 'cause the line doesn't sell and doesn't really have much appeal' In fact, the only other faction that gets ANY complaints about getting new stuff(not 'aww I wanted stuff instead' but 'you shouldn't have gotten things') is Space marines and that's because they get TOO MUCH stuff. Even Inquisition doesn't face the same montras despite being in the exact same situation.

Look at all the complaining about Xenos armies we've been seeing lately, and apply this same logic. If Sisters aren't being made because there's no market for them and because they would sell poorly then it stands to reason that Xenos aren't being made because they sell poorly and there's no market for them.

I will say it again, if you honestly believe that Sisters are not seeing, and/or should not see a release because they don't sell well, that's fair so long as you attribute the same logic to the lack of Xenos and Slaanesh releases.