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Hey all,

I realise that this is probably a question bounced around frequently, however, I'm hoping some of you kind folk can assist me in forging my path into HH.

At present I've decided on pledging my allegiance to the Iron Warriors Legion and I currently have three, ten man squads of Mk3 Iron Warriors each consisting of a Sergeant, plasma gun and heavy bolter. So far in conversation with a friend I've been advised to pick up two more boxes of marines and build them in the same way due to how squads and weapons are handled in HH, as such I'm happy to go ahead with this advice. I'm also aware that I'm lacking a HQ but I was going to pick up a Terminator Captain in Cataphractii Armour.

This is as far as I've progressed with developing a list. My goal is to develop an army consistent with the lore relating to the Iron Warriors but as an initial goal I'd like some assistance developing a "small" force which I can use for learning the game and as a foundation.

I greatly appreciate any assistance with this.


On a side note, I fully intend to pick up the relevant books but I was (perhaps naively) hoping to gather my foundation prior to this.

Well that's going to be very elite small army with whopping 5 veteran squads. Basic troop squads can't have special weapons so those will be veteran squads. One squad will be 195 MINIMUM which amounts to 19 basic troopers so just for those 5 squads you are looking about 1000 pts!

Also you will be restricted to pride of the legion ROW as you need that to unlock veteran squads as troops which is required for you to have even legal army.

Not that it cannot work. I'm bodies over gizmos and I love 2x20 tacticals as a core of my armies.

Heavy bolter isn't that super hot weapon even against infantry and leaves you thin on anti-tanks. Howabout make the 2 new squads at least with pair of missile launchers and machine killers? S8 krak missiles with +1 to penetration rolls and 4 of them gives you at least SOME tank busting ability. And IMO 5 identical veteran squads gets too monotonic.

Either way you are going to need some anti-tank. Tank wise vindicator laser destroyer or sicarran are both good. Or plain vindicator who with machine spirit is plain evil. Infantry wise heavy weapon squads can pack heavy weapons though can get pricey. Contemptators are also decent platforms for weapons.

The first thing that it sounds like may catch you a bit off-guard is that 30k squad organization is rather different from how it works in the 40k Marine lists. Your mandatory Troops choices in a "normal" list are Tactical Squads (10-20 models with bolters or pistol/chainsword), Assault Squads (10-20 models with jump packs, special pistols/power weapons available at 1/5 models), and Breacher squads (10-20 models with bolters and riot shields, one special weapon per five models).

Normally your upgrade guns are gathered in Tactical Support Squads (Troops that can't fill your mandatory slots, 5-10 models all with the same special weapon) and Heavy Support Squads (Heavy Support, 5-10 models all with the same heavy weapon).

However most people starting 30k do so using the Pride of the Legion Rite (Rites of War modify your detachment requirements to allow lists to be build in new and different ways), because it allows you to use Veteran Tactical Squads (who have the 5-10 models with one heavy or special weapon per five models distribution familiar to players of 40k Marines) as your Troops.

The major things the Iron Warriors do differently/well are Battle-Automata (the Iron Circle and more Cortex Controllers make your auxiliary robots better, plus your Praetor (Captain-level character) can have the ability to repair them), artillery (one of their unique Rites, the Ironfire, makes artillery more accurate), and gunlines (Iron Havocs and Tyrant Siege Terminators are strong stand-off shooting units).

If you're going to try a more stand-off-ish list Iron Havocs, Tyrant Siege Terminators, and vehicles (along with the usual suspects Legion artillery includes the Basilisk and the Medusa) are good things to grab next. If you'd like to be more mobile and more aggressive I'd suggest getting some Iron Circle robots and Dreadnaughts to push the line forward. Either way you're going to want to make or build a Warsmith (who can have Cataphractii armour, but also has a servo-arm because he's a Praetor (Captain statline, mandatory warlord, and enables the Rites of War) and is a Battlesmith (so he can fix vehicles and robots)), and probably get more bolter-armed models and a Rapier mortar battery or two.

Thank you for the quick responses. I believe his suggestion for the two extra squads was so that I'd end up with 2 x 20 man squads of bolter marines and 1 x 5 man squad of plasma weapons and 1 x 5 man squad of heavy bolters.

I love the look of Breachers but I may leave these till later.

I'm unfamiliar with the "Cortex Controllers", I'm assuming that these are a wargear item based off what's been said.

I really like the idea of having an artillery-centric force, I currently have an old basilisk model which has never been built so I guess with some conversion work this could be used as a Legion Basilisk?

Given the replies so far I'm now considering either picking up the "Legion Praetors" from Forgeworld or alternatively the "Legion Champion and Master of the Signal" but I'm not sure which of the two would be more suitable in my pursuit of a force focused around artillery/gunline.

The other two thoughts I've had are regarding the effectiveness of the Rapier Mortars and their role. I was also considering the viability of the Deredeo Dreadnought with Arachnus Heavy Lascannon Battery and missile launcher as AT and artillery but I might be falsely assuming that the launcher pod is artillery based on its appearance.

Many thanks for your assistance and patience,
FreeFrag.UK

Well with 5 heavy bolters and 5 plasma guns certainly that would give you special&heavy weapon squads along with 5 sergeants and 35 bolters. Not enough for 2x20 squads though but 2x16 at least. As veteran/tactical+special squad count-as issues would then be ccw/bolter combo veterans have as especially heavy weapons don't have extra CCW and specials might not want. Though depends on how strict you are with WYSIWYG.

But that certainly makes sense and if you want to go that way obviously ignore my comment about missile launchers!

Cortex controller is ability some guys have like centurion given certain role(HQ choice) that allows you to field robots normally usable by adeptus mechanicum. Every legion can use them but IW do it bit better than non-IW legions.

And yeah guess basilisk can be used as legion basilisk. ISsue would be WYSIWYG wise as legion basilisk is not open topped. If you are good at converting that's something to fix.

For HQ if you don't mind using MKIV marines along with MKIII(like I do) battle of calth gives extra 30 bodies, dreadnought and 2 HQ models there. Alternatively of course FW options or get more MKIII and convert your own HQ's. Prospero box is harder to utilize HQ wise. Best I have done is librarian for my Sons of Horus.

Either way I would look to get some tank busting ability there somewhere. That deredeo would be seriously nasty one for sure though at over 200 pts expensive. But 2 S10 AP2 shots with ability to cause extra penetration hits can make world of hurt for vehicles.

(note to self: Get one. Or two so both sons of horus and blood angels have one)

I use havocs and tyrants as my primary anti-tank, havocs get tank hunter and bs5, and tyrants can be improved with the addition of various centurion consuls. I normally take 10 autocannon havocs and 5-10 tyrants, and watch most armour besides Spartans vanish by the end of turn two. Two phospex mortars and two medusas helps to clear the infantry.

Hope you have as much fun with the Iron as I've had, every game (win or lose) has always been a close fight, and their fluff doesn't really close any doors in terms of options (being homicidal psychopaths in cc as well as a gun line force.)

 FreeFrag.UK wrote:
I'm unfamiliar with the "Cortex Controllers", I'm assuming that these are a wargear item based off what's been said.

A Cortex Controller allows Cortex robots (the Castellax, Vorax, and Iron Circle robots are the ones available to an Iron Warriors Legion list) to ignore their programmed behaviour rules, and each one lets you take a Castellax/Vorax maniple as an extra Heavy Support choice. In a normal Legion list the Cortex Controller is available to the Forge Lord (the HQ-level Techmarine) and the Praevian (a special battle-automata-support HQ), but Iron Warriors can give them to a Warsmith (the Praetor) and normal Techmarines (who are an Elites unit and so don't eat any of your HQ choices at all if you want to take that road).

I really like the idea of having an artillery-centric force, I currently have an old basilisk model which has never been built so I guess with some conversion work this could be used as a Legion Basilisk?

Absolutely. Legion Basilisks aren't open-topped but there's no reason you can't use the "power armour is just that strong" excuse that makes Land Speeders not open-topped and build Marine gun crew if you don't want to build a full armoured enclosure.

Given the replies so far I'm now considering either picking up the "Legion Praetors" from Forgeworld or alternatively the "Legion Champion and Master of the Signal" but I'm not sure which of the two would be more suitable in my pursuit of a force focused around artillery/gunline.

I was going to suggest getting a Warsmith but Forge World seems to have a Loyalist bias here because there's an Iron Father but no Warsmith. I'd suggest getting the Champion and Master of Signal, then use the Champion as a base to convert a Praetor or Warsmith. The Champion body (the torso, legs, and base are all one peice) makes a great starting point to convert almost any dramatic and entertaining characters you like.

The other thing to note is that the Master of Signal model makes a serviceable Siege Breaker as well, and he's a cornerstone of more competitive artillery lists because he unlocks phosphex shells.

The other two thoughts I've had are regarding the effectiveness of the Rapier Mortars and their role. I was also considering the viability of the Deredeo Dreadnought with Arachnus Heavy Lascannon Battery and missile launcher as AT and artillery but I might be falsely assuming that the launcher pod is artillery based on its appearance.

Rapier mortars are a good thing to have for almost anyone, but the Ironfire buffs make them tremendously accurate. They have five different fire modes (the default frag rounds and four more they can pay to add) so they can work against a reasonably wide variety of targets; they're most effective at clearing massed infantry, but they can engage light/medium vehicles, heavy infantry, and Monstrous Creatures with some success.

The Deredeo's missile launcher is sort of artillery; it's a single-target weapon, but it fires guided missiles that ignore line of sight and always hits the target's side armour. I don't have any live experience using it, but from my brief initial analysis I'd recommend leaving the autocannons on the Deredeo over taking the lascannons. The lascannons are an attempt to shoehorn it into a role it's no good at; the autocannons are there for pounding hull points off medium/light vehicles, but once you put the lascannons on you're sacrificing anti-air firepower (the lascannon is overkill against almost anything flying in 30k, having the two extra shots and Sunder is better against almost all of it) and inviting comparison to the Sicaran-Venator, which is just better at killing ground vehicles in that points bracket.

Welcome to the Horus Heresy, FreeFrag. The beauty of the Horus Heresy is that it is a very intricate game with a lot of depth to it, allowing you to tell a fascinating story with your army. I recommend taking some time to figure out what the purpose of your army is. Do you want to tell a story, go to tournaments and crush foes, or a middle ground? Then you need to ask yourself if you want to play a list that is a stereotypical Iron Warriors army or break the mold a little.

I personally reccomend telling a story with your armylist, giving yourself a handful of restrictions and playing within that to the best of your ability. An example would be an invasion force that is attempting to conquer an enemy stronghold on a world with an incredibly hazardous sun, making vehicles and dreadnoughts very difficult to make proper use of. Or an army in the process of out-flanking its foes through a sewer system, limiting their ability to field immobile or large forces such as Land Raiders.

How would the Iron Warriors handle these situations, or more accurately, how would the Praetor whose story you're telling handle these situations?

If you want to build a very strong Iron Warrior army in terms of winning the game, then a Siege Breaker with Quad Mortars, Medusas, and Ironfire will be the backbone of your army. Then you take 20-man squads of tactical marines with apothecaries in order to give your army proper coverage to make it immune to alpha-strike, and some dreadnoughts (Mortis or Deredo) for anti-air.

The downside of the Horus Heresy is that its model range and core rules have existed for so long that folks have figured out the mathematically better lists. So winning in the orthodox methods is uninteresting to me and many people that I know. Yes, deathstars in Spartan land raiders are cool, but not when everyone fields one.

Now, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't take any artillery, just keep in mind that it is incredibly powerful, a very common tactic, and will give your opponents a challenge. So be aware of who you're playing with to ensure that they still feel a story is being told, not that their army is just getting put on the table and removed again.

Welcome to the HH dude!

Most people here have covered most of what you're after.

DakkaDakka has a great HH community, please feel free to fire away questions.

Thank you for all your replies and encouragement, it's greatly appreciated and to be honest it's a great motivator to crack on and get my army on the table.

In response to some of your questions Kraytirous, my intention is to pursue the middle ground although back story is very important to me with any table top project. My current thoughts are torn between the supporting gun line for a siege or alternatively pursuing more of a breaching section who are responsible for clearing the trenches and storming the breach, getting up close and bloody.

These two ideas seem to be at odds in some ways but firm bedfellows in others. At the moment I don't have much in the way of HH models. I have two squads of Mk 3. Marines which are painted up, each sporting a heavy bolter, plasma gun and sgt with power weapon and pistol. Outside of this I have 4 x squads of Mk 3. still on the sprue.

My original project brief was to create an Iron Warrior's force which would be compliant with 30k and 40k but which accepts that there are models which will not be cross compatible.

I'm looking to place a small order with Forge World this evening or tomorrow afternoon to try and fill some gaps and bring a step further with the development of my force.

One item definitely needs to be a HQ. As it stands I have a 40k metal Warsmith, I'm not sure if this is 30k compliant although there's nothing on the model which looks as though it shouldn't be.

One thing about HH compared to 40k which I love and appeals deeply is the simple massive array of options which are at a players finger tips.

Yeah that model works as either forge lord consul(maybe should hunt one down for my armies as well) or as iron warrior warsmith upgrade which is basically praetorian level forge lord.

Either way you have your minimum HQ's there. Just do you want to go for cheaper or more powerful but pricier one.

tneva82 wrote:
Yeah that model works as either forge lord consul(maybe should hunt one down for my armies as well) or as iron warrior warsmith upgrade which is basically praetorian level forge lord.

Either way you have your minimum HQ's there. Just do you want to go for cheaper or more powerful but pricier one.

I don't mind investing in my army as it's part of the hobby. I quite like the Warsmith model (where are my 40k rules GW?!?) which is why I mentioned it, I just wasn't sure if it was a model which could potentially form part of my army.

 FreeFrag.UK wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Yeah that model works as either forge lord consul(maybe should hunt one down for my armies as well) or as iron warrior warsmith upgrade which is basically praetorian level forge lord.

Either way you have your minimum HQ's there. Just do you want to go for cheaper or more powerful but pricier one.

I don't mind investing in my army as it's part of the hobby. I quite like the Warsmith model (where are my 40k rules GW?!?) which is why I mentioned it, I just wasn't sure if it was a model which could potentially form part of my army.

Here price was more of in-game. Forge lord costs 85 pts plus wargear(Servo-arm included in price). Warsmith 100 pts plus wargear(35 pts for servo arm) but has better stats. Either way he's usable so field him as you wish

I picked up the warsmith model for my iron warriors, and I'll be honest, I never ended up building it. It's a great model, but imo it doesn't really fit the size or aesthetic of the 30k range too well. You can pick up the hq's from the Calth box cheaply enough, and they convert easily enough.

The “over the top, into the breach” aspect of the Iron Warriors is very rarely appreciated despite it being one of their most endearing qualities. War is a mathematical equation and people are as much a part of it as artillery. Going all out with breachers, destroyers (a weak but thematic unit), assault marines, maybe even a Land Raider or two to force the issue, some dreads and perhaps a mastodon will create a very aggressive mid-range army.

As far as what you have now, you have lots of plasma guns, which you can’t really have too many of in a Legion list, especially when paired with a Master of Signal or Forgelord with Cognis Signum. I recommend looking at shapeways and nabbing some cheap boarding shields to convert a handful of your unbuilt mark 3 marines. The heavy bolters are a fairly lacklustre equipment option in 30k with the exception of the Iron Havocs and veterans, so a squad of veterans may not be a bad idea to build (rending heavy bolters are pretty nice to have on the move).

Things you’ll want to buy sooner than later are apothecaries for your massed infantry, rhinos for your veterans, and tactical support squad.

 Kraytirous wrote:
The “over the top, into the breach” aspect of the Iron Warriors is very rarely appreciated despite it being one of their most endearing qualities...

I always thought that was the point of the Ironfire rite. Massed infantry pushing forward under the cover of a rolling barrage.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Kraytirous wrote:
The “over the top, into the breach” aspect of the Iron Warriors is very rarely appreciated despite it being one of their most endearing qualities...

I always thought that was the point of the Ironfire rite. Massed infantry pushing forward under the cover of a rolling barrage.

It is in theory. In practice you get minimum points spent on troops to maximize points available for barrage weapons.

 JamesY wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Kraytirous wrote:
The “over the top, into the breach” aspect of the Iron Warriors is very rarely appreciated despite it being one of their most endearing qualities...

I always thought that was the point of the Ironfire rite. Massed infantry pushing forward under the cover of a rolling barrage.

It is in theory. In practice you get minimum points spent on troops to maximize points available for barrage weapons.

You're exactly right. Ironfire was intended to represent the Iron Warriors being so innured to danger-close artillery that they don't flinch when an incredibly accurate barrage lands near them. Instead people use it as an excuse to spam even more artillery. Totally within the rules and legit, but not the "story" that that Rite of War is supposed to be telling. The army is a glorified gunline.

It's the same problem that Coils of the Hydra suffers from. The story it is supposed to tell is that of the Alpha Legion finally unveiling their plans and pouncing on the foe from every direction. In reality, it's used as an excuse to "borrow" a Legion specific unit, build a deathstar out of it, and infiltrate it in your opponent's face.