Author |
Message |
|
|
|
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
|
2018/01/20 18:39:48
Subject: Tau Early Warning Override and GK Gate of Infinity
|
|
Regular Dakkanaut
|
Does a Tau model equipped with early warning override get to shoot at a GK unit that moves within 12 inches with Gate of Infinity? My inclination is no, as they are not being "set up" or arriving mid battle. What are your thoughts.
|
|
|
|
2018/01/20 18:44:33
Subject: Tau Early Warning Override and GK Gate of Infinity
|
|
Norn Queen
|
Riggs wrote:Does a Tau model equipped with early warning override get to shoot at a GK unit that moves within 12 inches with Gate of Infinity? My inclination is no, as they are not being "set up" or arriving mid battle. What are your thoughts.
Gate of Infinity LITERALLY says "set it up". Page 101 Codex: Grey Knights wrote:Remove that unit from the battlefield and immediately set it up anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 9" from any enemy models.
So yes, an EWO works against models that use Gate of Infinity. They are set up mid battle, GoI says to "remove that unit from the battlefield", and they then arrive on the battlefield, so the EWO works. But, RaW you can argue that the use of "i.e." means it only works when something literally Teleports to the battlefield (ala Terminator Teleport) and nothing else.
|
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2018/01/20 18:50:36
|
|
|
|
2018/01/21 05:20:04
Subject: Re:Tau Early Warning Override and GK Gate of Infinity
|
|
Regular Dakkanaut
|
if it says set it up in the power, then it counts as a set up. Any ability that targets units setting up (Like EWO) works just fine with these powers/abilities
|
|
|
|
2018/01/21 13:07:37
Subject: Tau Early Warning Override and GK Gate of Infinity
|
|
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh
|
It specifies setting up on the board AND coming from reserves. Therefore it doesn't work on units using GOI since the unit is not coming in from reserves.
|
|
|
|
2018/01/21 14:53:29
Subject: Tau Early Warning Override and GK Gate of Infinity
|
|
Norn Queen
|
Leo_the_Rat wrote:It specifies setting up on the board AND coming from reserves. Therefore it doesn't work on units using GOI since the unit is not coming in from reserves.
No, it doesn't. It says Page 137 Index: Xenos 2 wrote:If an enemy unit is set up within 12" of a model equipped with an early warning override as the result of an ability that allows them to arrive mid-battle (i.e. teleporting to the battlefield), the model may immediately shoot at that unit as if it were your Shooting phase. GoI removes the unit from the battlefield, and then arrive again, thus they are arriving mid battle.
Nowhere does the rule mention reserves of any kind.
But like I said, the use of i.e. means it only works RaW on ONE SPECIFIC type of arrival anyway. Same with one of the Wych drugs.
04/Nov/2018 Update: Still valid for the Tau Codex:
If any enemy units are set up within 12" of a model from your army equipped with an early warning override as the result of an ability that allows them to arrive mid-battle (i.e. teleporting to the battlefield), then at the end of that phase the model may immediately shoot at one of those units as if it were your Shooting phase, but you must subtract 1 from hit rolls when resolving these shots.
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/04 04:55:47
|
|
|
|
2018/01/21 18:46:44
Subject: Tau Early Warning Override and GK Gate of Infinity
|
|
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
|
BaconCatBug wrote:Leo_the_Rat wrote:It specifies setting up on the board AND coming from reserves. Therefore it doesn't work on units using GOI since the unit is not coming in from reserves.
No, it doesn't. It says Page 137 Index: Xenos 2 wrote:If an enemy unit is set up within 12" of a model equipped with an early warning override as the result of an ability that allows them to arrive mid-battle (i.e. teleporting to the battlefield), the model may immediately shoot at that unit as if it were your Shooting phase. GoI removes the unit from the battlefield, and then arrive again, thus they are arriving mid battle.
Nowhere does the rule mention reserves of any kind.
But like I said, the use of i.e. means it only works RaW on ONE SPECIFIC type of arrival anyway. Same with one of the Wych drugs.
How many threads will people keep claiming this i.e. thing in?
Yes, GW should have used e.g. instead of i.e. - that's obvious.
No, that doesn't mean that RAW this rule only works against teleporting Terminators.
That's just a silly thing to claim, and indeed the Tenets of YMDC ably cover GW's weird English and say "don't make threads/arguments about it". It's making a problem where none exists.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/21 18:47:24
Stormonu wrote:For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules" |
|
|
|
2018/01/21 19:20:49
Subject: Tau Early Warning Override and GK Gate of Infinity
|
|
Regular Dakkanaut
|
Gotta love BCB declaring raw over an abbreviation case that is misused by 95% of English speaking adults.
|
|
|
|
2018/01/21 19:58:54
Subject: Tau Early Warning Override and GK Gate of Infinity
|
|
Been Around the Block
|
Man, if only GW just created some kind of...Universal Rule...that made it super easy to know whether or not Early Warning Override meant specifically those arriving via reinforcements or not.
Maybe...we could call it...Deep strike.
And rewrite Early Warning Override to say 'When an enemy unit within 12" of the model equipped with the Early Warning Override device (Deep Strikes/arrives via Deep Strike)..."
Then we wouldn't have this issue at all.
|
|
|
|
2018/01/21 20:13:11
Subject: Tau Early Warning Override and GK Gate of Infinity
|
|
Lieutenant General
|
Except every 'universal' rule comes with a hundred or more exceptions, making those so called 'universal' rules meaningless.
|
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim |
|
|
|
2018/01/21 21:04:56
Subject: Tau Early Warning Override and GK Gate of Infinity
|
|
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Units on the table have already arrived to the battle.
GoI takes an unit that is on the table (already arrived) and allows it to setup somewhere else on the table.
The unit has not arrived mid battle from the "set it up" that GoI does.
RAW EWO cannot target models using GoI
GoI does not include any language that indicates the unit is arriving mid battle, arriving again, or counts as arriving. If it did, or if EWO only specified any time an unit is setup with X distance do Y, then EWO would work.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/21 21:07:18
|
|
|
|
2018/01/21 21:09:05
Subject: Tau Early Warning Override and GK Gate of Infinity
|
|
Norn Queen
|
blaktoof wrote:GoI does not include any language that indicates the unit is arriving mid battle
"Remove that unit from the battlefield" is pretty clear.
|
|
|
|
2018/01/21 21:12:37
Subject: Tau Early Warning Override and GK Gate of Infinity
|
|
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
its pretty clear you pick the models up and put them down "set it up" somewhere else, there is no clear language that it is arriving from not being at the battle.
the unit was clearly on the battlefield before- arrived.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/21 21:12:56
|
|
|
|
2018/01/21 21:14:01
Subject: Tau Early Warning Override and GK Gate of Infinity
|
|
Norn Queen
|
blaktoof wrote:its pretty clear you pick the models up and put them down "set it up" somewhere else, there is no clear language that it is arriving from not being at the battle.
the unit was clearly on the battlefield before- arrived.
It was removed from the battlefield. By definition they must then arrive mid battle.
|
|
|
|
2018/01/21 21:16:06
Subject: Tau Early Warning Override and GK Gate of Infinity
|
|
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
BaconCatBug wrote:blaktoof wrote:its pretty clear you pick the models up and put them down "set it up" somewhere else, there is no clear language that it is arriving from not being at the battle.
the unit was clearly on the battlefield before- arrived.
It was removed from the battlefield. By definition they must then arrive mid battle.
Can you quote where that definition comes from in the rules?
or wherein the rules for GoI it references arriving, or counts as arriving, or the unit arrives to the battlefield again set it up... anything with the word arrive or this definition of being removed and set up again= arriving?
I understand the logic behind what you are saying, but there aren't any rule supporting it.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/21 21:16:31
|
|
|
|
2018/01/21 21:19:31
Subject: Tau Early Warning Override and GK Gate of Infinity
|
|
Norn Queen
|
blaktoof wrote: BaconCatBug wrote:blaktoof wrote:its pretty clear you pick the models up and put them down "set it up" somewhere else, there is no clear language that it is arriving from not being at the battle.
the unit was clearly on the battlefield before- arrived.
It was removed from the battlefield. By definition they must then arrive mid battle.
Can you quote where that definition comes from in the rules?
or wherein the rules for GoI it references arriving, or counts as arriving, or the unit arrives to the battlefield again set it up... anything with the word arrive or this definition of being removed and set up again= arriving?
I understand the logic behind what you are saying, but there aren't any rule supporting it.
It's an implicit part of the rules inherited from the English Language, much like how "rolling a dice" is implicit or how your D6's have to be numbered 1-6 and fair.
|
|
|
|
2018/01/21 21:27:42
Subject: Tau Early Warning Override and GK Gate of Infinity
|
|
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
I will now commit the nerd sin of bringing up past editions, because reasons:
In every previous edition where an ability allowed an unit to be removed from play and arrive essentially immediately, there was no change of phase/turn/different unit does something before the unit is placed on the table somewhere after being removed, it was never considered reserves (which is now reinforcements) and never counted as arriving again.
examples given:
7th edition gate of infinity, necron veil of darkness
Both of these factions/units had special rules that triggered when the units arrive from reserve, both of these units when using GoI/VoD were ruled to not trigger the abilities from "arriving" when GoI/VoDing.
There is no language in this edition that would indicate that it is.
I contend that this edition with no language supporting the unit is arriving a further time past it already having arrived, much like previous editions- the unit being placed by GoI/VoD is being set up, but is not being set up from reinforcements as it was already arrived on the table, and is not arriving and being set up.
|
|
|
|
2018/01/22 14:35:09
Subject: Tau Early Warning Override and GK Gate of Infinity
|
|
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine
|
This thread is answered back in october 2017 from GW it self
https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Errata/Warhammer_40000/Index_Xenos_2_ENG.pdf
quote relevant part: Q: Can models with an early warning override Support System
use it to shoot at units that use psychic powers such as Gate of
Infinity or Da Jump to set up within 12"?
A: Yes.
please check official resources first
|
|
|
|
2018/01/22 14:38:08
Subject: Re:Tau Early Warning Override and GK Gate of Infinity
|
|
Norn Queen
|
I really wish there was a better way to comb though the mountains of Errata and FAQ for things like this. I looked and I missed this. I'm seriously considering making a master document that has keywords and such for each question. It's especially annoying when questions for things that should be universal (e.g. Stratagems from army A on models from army B) are found in faction specific FAQs.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/22 14:39:56
|
|
|
|
2018/01/22 17:27:38
Subject: Tau Early Warning Override and GK Gate of Infinity
|
|
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Good advice, and I was incorrect.
Nice Jeff Goldblum meme
|
|
|
|
|