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Martel732 wrote:
The hammer is coming for Dark Reapers. Doesn't help us now, but it's sure gonna make the people with 50 of them sad pandas.

Which is why I need to get to converting a bunch for eBay before all the sods realize they're gonna suck soon.

-

 Amishprn86 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
The hammer is coming for Dark Reapers. Doesn't help us now, but it's sure gonna make the people with 50 of them sad pandas.

This is why i only kept my 10 of them, so far GW has been 100% on nerfing high comp spam units, (sadly they over nerf tho).

Not always, but sometimes. Conscripts won't seem like an overnerf when guardsmen go on the block. The more i play, the more I'm convinced the guardsmen is a 6 pt model.

I'd try proxying the dakkajet as a burna bomma. The bombs put out mortal wounds on a 4+ against infantry. That way you dont have to worry about his arkor/cover and your model is still good for something.

Then report back on how it does because I'm curious :p

Also, use the mega flaming death explosion of the burna bomber to your advantage. He'll be tempted to shoot it down as he ignores to-hit penalties but the potential (75% with a cp re-roll) 3 mortal wound explosion is gona be brutal when you're amidst his army. So, you're likely getting all those bombs dropped and a supashoota with a bs4 tl bigshoota pouring bullets at him all game long. Sure, it's just half a dead reaper in cover but count in the bombs and the annoyance it's gona cause.

 Nazrak wrote:
I’ve gone away and had a think about this, and I wonder if the best way to splat them would be to chuck a couple of min-sized Stormboyz mobs at them. Big choppas on the Nobz. As with anything Orks, the tricky bit’s going to be getting them into position without getting shot.

Why min-sized? That leaves them more vulnerable to morale. Opponent will be likely splitting fire between the units so that they will suffer damage but not be wiped leaving morale to knock out more.

And with LOS & terrain rules good luck preventing being shot if you can't do T1 charge and get T1.

 koooaei wrote:
Also, use the mega flaming death explosion of the burna bomber to your advantage. He'll be tempted to shoot it down as he ignores to-hit penalties but the potential (75% with a cp re-roll) 3 mortal wound explosion is gona be brutal when you're amidst his army. So, you're likely getting all those bombs dropped and a supashoota with a bs4 tl bigshoota pouring bullets at him all game long. Sure, it's just half a dead reaper in cover but count in the bombs and the annoyance it's gona cause.

The reapers can move and shoot with 3+., so they can just move out of explosion range and kill the flyer. It will only work against an inexperienced player, I think.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:

 Nazrak wrote:
I’ve gone away and had a think about this, and I wonder if the best way to splat them would be to chuck a couple of min-sized Stormboyz mobs at them. Big choppas on the Nobz. As with anything Orks, the tricky bit’s going to be getting them into position without getting shot.

Why min-sized? That leaves them more vulnerable to morale. Opponent will be likely splitting fire between the units so that they will suffer damage but not be wiped leaving morale to knock out more.

And with LOS & terrain rules good luck preventing being shot if you can't do T1 charge and get T1.

5-man squads are only mildly affected by morale, and positioning them behind terrain is fairly easy given their excellent movement and small footprint. But storomboyz will not catch reapers that can move and shoot with full BS at longe range.

tneva82 wrote:

 Nazrak wrote:
I’ve gone away and had a think about this, and I wonder if the best way to splat them would be to chuck a couple of min-sized Stormboyz mobs at them. Big choppas on the Nobz. As with anything Orks, the tricky bit’s going to be getting them into position without getting shot.

Why min-sized? That leaves them more vulnerable to morale. Opponent will be likely splitting fire between the units so that they will suffer damage but not be wiped leaving morale to knock out more.

And with LOS & terrain rules good luck preventing being shot if you can't do T1 charge and get T1.

More big choppa Nobz; easier to hide/take cover on the way in.

pismakron wrote:

5-man squads are only mildly affected by morale, and positioning them behind terrain is fairly easy given their excellent movement and small footprint. But storomboyz will not catch reapers that can move and shoot with full BS at longe range.

Dunno proper splitting will basically mean every squad that has anything visible(in 8th ed pretty much every squad) will be losing 2-3 models with proper split firing which will be knocking off models off and finishing off mobs as well. That's lots of extra casualties you'll be suffering if you don't have board filled with LOS blocking boxes. Haven't seen any such boards here. So far every 8th ed game has been pretty much same as no terrain to begin with.

tneva82 wrote:

pismakron wrote:

5-man squads are only mildly affected by morale, and positioning them behind terrain is fairly easy given their excellent movement and small footprint. But storomboyz will not catch reapers that can move and shoot with full BS at longe range.

Dunno proper splitting will basically mean every squad that has anything visible(in 8th ed pretty much every squad) will be losing 2-3 models with proper split firing which will be knocking off models off and finishing off mobs as well. That's lots of extra casualties you'll be suffering if you don't have board filled with LOS blocking boxes. Haven't seen any such boards here. So far every 8th ed game has been pretty much same as no terrain to begin with.

Personally I play with tons of LOS blocking terrain. And with ruins where the bottom level blocks LOS. As for the stormboyz, if you lose two models you will only lose another on a morale roll of six. The alternative is to or run multiple units of ten. And while that method will delay the onset of morale casualties, they can end up being quite severe if, say, your enemy shaves 6 models of both squads.

But you are totally right, that the best thing to do is to split shooting between enemy ork mobs, rather than focusing down every separate mob. My experience is that the majority of my opponents opts for the latter approach. Maybe they are overestimating the importance of the PK-nob and underestimating the boyz tagging along.

pismakron wrote:

The reapers can move and shoot with 3+., so they can just move out of explosion range and kill the flyer. It will only work against an inexperienced player, I think.

you will likely end your bombing run behind them, so they'd have to move towards your own advancing boyz. It's less suicidal to just ignore the bomber and let it kill two halfs of squads for the first two turns and than a reaper per every next turn.

Honestly dark reaper spam is annoying, but not terrible if you don’t allow Forge world shenanigans. Is he move shoot moving on you?

Boyz not krumpin' dah pointy ear'd gits fast enuf?!?

PAINT 'EM RED! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!

But seriously, I saw your earlier thread, and knew this would happen. Eldar are currently very, very powerful. Da Jump and more boyz is probably the best way to go. Until he figures out Guardians can get guaranteed 4++ invul saves for 1 CP, and therefore shred boyz with impunity.

Wait for your codex. Things will turn around then. Until then, tell him to stop cheesing his spam.

 KelseyC wrote:
I had made a thread about a week ago asking for advice on helping my boyfriend (Eldar) defeat my Orks. We got lots of nice advice there which has helped him. That combined with my suggestion of Dark Reapers after looking through his Codex. We've played two games since then and now he wipes out most of my boys on turn one. Both times I shook up my list a bit to try to combat the new super threat in his army.

I tried taking my Dakkajet to get across the table fast and maybe take out a squad of Reapers. Unfortunately he's gotten first turn both games and he weakens my jet so it's down to 6BS. That combined with the cover his Reapers are in nulifies the jet. The other game I tried to use Da Jump with shoota Boyz to pop behind him and shoot down a few squads. Like the jet though it's ineffective, the Reapers are in cover and so have a 2+ save. I can barely hit them and the terrain makes a charge not really possible. For our next game I'm planning to take some lootas and pray for first turn, maybe they can kill a squad at least.

Does anyone have any suggestions? I find I have no long range options that reliably hit and when they do I don't have the AP to make a difference. I'm maybe going to try small squads of trukk Boyz so they at least have a little protection from all the missles. Problem is Trukks are like paper and then I'm spending the points on them. Heck I didn't even mention all of his psychic and ways to negate perils that Eldar have. I knew my army was outclassed by his, now that he's finally figured out an effective way to eliminate my hordes I'm at a loss. Perhaps the codex will help some with klan rules and what not.

Fellow Warbosses, help me krump these pointy eared gits!

I suggest Stormboyz, and Kommandoes. Also getting a codex... Once the boys get a codex, you should have more options.

I agree on using your dakka yet as burna bommer, if you still have the bits from building it, you can just paint the the bombs and missiles and glue them to the plane - it looks nice as well, and you can count it as any of the three planes.
The burna bommer is good at killing elite infantry, but reapers are pretty good at killing planes, so don't rely on it doing the job by itself. In fact, deploy it far away from your army, so it doesn't kill anything when it dies. Good thing is that even with 1 wound left, the bomb will still kill 2-3 reapers.
If you want to keep your dakka jet, note that the allaitoc to hit modifier does not work inside 12". There is not downside for you to get really close, so just jump the jet straight into their face and give them a really close look at those supa-shootas. That way, even with little wounds left, you will still be hitting on 5+.

Same goes for shoota boyz. Use the mob up stratagem to combine a unit of 10 and a unit of 30 into a ball of 40 and jump them in a way to have all of them within 12". Even if you can't charge them, every killed reaper hurts, and even with perfect dice, they can't kill more than 30 boyz in one round of shooting - leaving two nobz with PKs and some boyz behind to clear out the reapers. Use CP to pass the moral check if needed.
Do it again next turn - for a total of 80 boyz, which fits well with your collection.
Another trick for boyz would be trying to charge something out of cover in addition to the reapers (you need to declare both units as targets and take both their overwatch). Assuming you succeed your charge against the other unit, move all models that cannot get in combat with the out of cover unit in a way to get as close to the reapers as possible without entering terrain. If you get within 4" of the reapers with the charge move, you can consolidate into them and fight, if you are within 7" try to consolidate towards them before and after combat, so at least they can't shoot next turn. Note that consolidate moves need to get you closer to the closest unit, but as long as you are a tenth of any inch closer to your closest unit than before, the move is legal.

The KFF can increase the lifespan of your boyz against reaper launchers, because every roll of 5+ negates a missile. The dok tools carried by pain boyz and Mad Dok Grotsnik are a 6++ roll per damage done, so for the small missile profile, you only save one out of 36 boyz. You have the same problem against the hemlock's flamers so I wouldn't bother with spending point in those buffs unless you want a to patch up weird boyz with your dok.
Try getting a metal KFF mek from ebay, it's pretty easy to get the paint off metal models, plus you won't have issues with faulty finecast - the KFF mek suffers heavily from those issues (probably the reason it's no longer available). Outside of that, KFF bits are usually easy to get from MANz, Morkanaut or Blastajet boxes (ask other ork players for spares). Just turn one into a backpack for one of your nobz.

I'm kind of surprised that no one has mentioned stocking up on weird boyz yet. Since he has no screening units, smite will always hit something valuable and due to the bonus you get from surrounding orks, denying them is pretty hard. In addition, your weird boyz can deny the hemlock's annoying debuffs, and probably one or two farseer powers when you get closer.
Three weird boyz even have a decent chance to take out the hemlock, and if it isn't the closest unit for some reason, any of his units are great targets for them.
Just don't buy the regular weird boy model, as it's another finecast model that tends to very faulty. Pick some shaman ork character from AoS or a thrid party store you like the looks of and buy that, or get a metal weid boy from ebay.
Fun bonus: Eldar are probably the only army ever worth using 'eadbanger against. On a roll of 4+ his farseer blows up, on a 5+ Eldrad becomes brain confetti. You can also use it to snipe dark reaper exarchs out of their units.

Even with -1 to hit, KMK are still a very good shooting unit that might kill a bunch of reapers. One of his reaper units will not be able to kill more than one KMK per turn, so if you can bring five, about two of them will survive to blow up a bunch of space elves with missile launchers - unless you go first.
Kannons do not work as well, but might be cheaper to get money wise. Just get some toy cannons (American civil war or wild west toys work well) that roughly match the scale, add some ork bits, paint them up and add a box of gretchin.
In any case, artillery works well for you because those dark reapers can't kill all your boyz, your bommer and you guns at the same time. Something will get through.

Last but not least, a biker warboss with relic axe might help. By turn 2 he should be close enough to take out a unit of reapers, and maybe consolidate into the next unit. Make sure that your plane and your boyz are closer to any surviving reapers than your warboss, otherwise it's dead.