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 AnomanderRake wrote:
From the reviews I've seen they look interesting, but I'm not sure I could give a proper opinion without seeing some of the Forge World rules. Even with the Codex adding the jetbikes it's still an army consisting almost entirely of mixed assault infantry with a few tacked-on vehicles and little to no counter to heavy armour; once the skimmers, the cool Dreadnaughts, and the Saggitarii come in it'll be a lot more interesting.


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Hoodwink wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Im getting it literally just for the bikes lol. I might get some scout bikes to add more bodies. but i dont expect it to win, just for fun.

I'm honestly looking at making a detachment just for the bikes in my BA army now. It'd be a nice way to keep the theme of a fast army and get some good anti-tank in there. HQ choices look like they'd buff my BA too. If I can get the -1 to hit buff in there and mix it with the 5+++ relic banner in BA, that'd be a crazy survivable foot slogging army.

The 5++ helps your BA but the -1 to hit is Custodes only.

(Still useful, just a bit less useful.)

Ah I got those two mixed up. But I agree with that last statement. I'm running almost all Primaris so it would be nice to have somewhat of a resistance to Plasma and other high AP modifiers.

I agree plus there is some synergy too.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Galas wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Galas wrote:
Yeah, theres many things that kill Custodes, Terminators ,etc... with ease, but with two wounds, is not small arms fire anymore. Thats something they have gained from 7th to 8th.

2 wounds? I thought they have 3w now?
But yeah, small arms is not particularly effective anymore. I can see how they are anti-hoard; they can shrug off a lot of fire while churning out decent damage in return.

....

Sort of like how necrons should be.

Normal custodes are 3W, terminators are 2W, so from 7th to 8th they have basically doubled in durability agaisn't any kind of AP0 weapon in the 3-5S range (Lasguns, Bolters, Pulse Rifles, etc...)

Ah right, you mean marine terminators. Yeah, they have gotten a bit tougher too.
I'm going to assume custode terminators have 4w then.

They do (the jetbikes do as well), according to the reviewers who have gotten their hands on the book already.

I think it's cool, but I don't think it's strong.

Until I'm holding the book in my hand, though, I may be proven wrong about the latter.

This looks like a very cheap army to start, most reviewers seem to agree an army can easily be in the 20-30 model range for a 2000 point army. That should make it an excellent army to entice people into the hobby (or entice existing players into starting a new army). Oh, and anti tank weapons are an effective way to kill them (well, more effective than normal guns) which honestly makes a certain amount of sense.

None of this allies nonsense, just going to run an army of golden bananas. Watching the Custodes vs Thousand Sons battle report and the Warhammer Community teasers they look a lot more viable as a stand alone army than what people imagine, when the FW rules get released I think they'll be able to hold their own even against horde armies

The stench of cheddar is strong with this book. It's only noticeable weak poins are foot print size and cp.

It is a bad flash back to 5th ed gray knights.

Smart players will sprinkle in a little am/ig soup for CP, and possibly long range fire power.

clownshoes wrote:
The stench of cheddar is strong with this book. It's only noticeable weak poins are foot print size and cp.

It is a bad flash back to 5th ed gray knights.

Smart players will sprinkle in a little am/ig soup for CP, and possibly long range fire power.

it's a codex that is clearly GW's attempt to provide a VIABLE elites army.

clownshoes wrote:
The stench of cheddar is strong with this book. It's only noticeable weak poins[sic] are foot print size and cp...

...And cost per wound...and inability to engage T5+ efficiently at range...and lack of sufficient volume of attacks to engage hordes at range...and over-reliance on multi-wound models making the whole affair fairly vulnerable to anti-armour firepower...and over-reliance on short-ranged footslogging units with no way of going any faster...and minute model count in an edition where model count is the determining factor in objectives...and no way of holding backfield objectives cost-effectively without allies...

"Only noticeable weak points" is kind of exaggerated.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

clownshoes wrote:
The stench of cheddar is strong with this book. It's only noticeable weak poins[sic] are foot print size and cp...

...And cost per wound...and inability to engage T5+ efficiently at range...and lack of sufficient volume of attacks to engage hordes at range...and over-reliance on multi-wound models making the whole affair fairly vulnerable to anti-armour firepower...and over-reliance on short-ranged footslogging units with no way of going any faster...and minute model count in an edition where model count is the determining factor in objectives...and no way of holding backfield objectives cost-effectively without allies...

"Only noticeable weak points" is kind of exaggerated.

Custodes strike me as an army that will eaither win big or lose big. if the enemy doesn't have the kinda firepower nesscarily to put the hurt on them they'll be crushed. but if they have a lot of multi wound anti armor, they'll die fast.

Dont forget most (all) Custodus will be running around with a 3/4++. So half your AT fire is going to do nothing.
And the -1 to hit banner to further reduce effectiveness.

And then 1/3 to half the time your AT weapon won't do enough wounds to kill a model.

I can see them being disgustingly resilient (put intended)

Ordana wrote:
Dont forget most (all) Custodus will be running around with a 3/4++. So half your AT fire is going to do nothing.
And the -1 to hit banner to further reduce effectiveness.

And then 1/3 to half the time your AT weapon won't do enough wounds to kill a model.

I can see them being disgustingly resilient (put intended)

that brings up an intreasting point, between DG and AC is GW perhaps experimenting with new and differant ways to make armies resiliant?

BrianDavion wrote:

Ordana wrote:
Dont forget most (all) Custodus will be running around with a 3/4++. So half your AT fire is going to do nothing.
And the -1 to hit banner to further reduce effectiveness.

And then 1/3 to half the time your AT weapon won't do enough wounds to kill a model.

I can see them being disgustingly resilient (put intended)

that brings up an intreasting point, between DG and AC is GW perhaps experimenting with new and differant ways to make armies resiliant?

I would call it a lesson from GK and DW.
Expensive models need extra resilience or they don't function.
Same deal why the Primaris had to get a point reduction. Just an extra Wound doesn't cut it.

More expensive then a marine but dies as quickly is pretty much synonymous with not-viable.

I think it is cool that this exists, being able to play stuff that exist in fluff is always cool.

I'm not sure I will get them myself. I'm not great fan of the super blingy aesthetic. The black colour scheme looks nice though, and I'd kinda want to try painting that. I might get a some to ally to my imperial soup. One squad, captain, vexilla, or something like that.

It is a bit annoying, that again (just like it often was with marines) the biker captain is a no brainer choice. It seems to be so much better than the foot slogging one, for pretty moderate bump in cost. The bikes itself are really nice, but I think I like the aesthetic of the foot slogging captain more. Besides, as it seems that the minimum squad size of the bikes is three, and there is only three in the box, getting a bike captain will be annoying. You need to get two boxes if you don't want to waste your two extra bikes, and even then a squad of five seems pretty excessive to me, considering the point cost.

The fact that they thought it was a good idea to bring back something that grants Fearless shows that they really have no clue about the game as it's played outside of the GW studio. You're barely going to see Custodes as a full army because having like 20 dudes is going to just get roflstomped by anything that puts out volume of attacks (which is the current meta), you'll see the good units as allies in Imperial Soup, which will make Imperial Soup even more dominant.

Wayniac wrote:
The fact that they thought it was a good idea to bring back something that grants Fearless shows that they really have no clue about the game as it's played outside of the GW studio. You're barely going to see Custodes as a full army because having like 20 dudes is going to just get roflstomped by anything that puts out volume of attacks (which is the current meta), you'll see the good units as allies in Imperial Soup, which will make Imperial Soup even more dominant.

Not going to happen. Fearless is good when you have 50 man units and a buffer that costs 30 points. When you have 10 man units and a buffer that costs more than 3 squads of them, it is 100% useless. Those imperial squads lose at best 3 man out of 10 to morale, you are welcome to make the math on the expected return of investment.

I like it.

Having watched the review video of the codex they look like a solid choice even as a standalone army. Their buffs and strategems work well from first glance and seem to offer some viable alternatives of playstyle.

Downsides, with such a low model count, made even worse by reserves etc, at the start of a game they could be vulnerable to heavy alpha strikes, due to cost you wont be getting insane AM levels of command points and massed cheap firepower will bring them down - I don't believe the whole 92 lasguns gubbins as mathhammer doesn't take into account ungodly good dice rolling. Also, with so few models playing for objectives will probably have them on the backfoot.

Solid choice but I think Winters SEO was right in his review when he said the army needs to be played hyper aggressively.

As codexes and new models go, I would give this release a solid 8.5/10. Going to get some.

Oh, and a great opportunity to try painting nmm gold and silver in muted tones. None of your Liberator Gold spray for me thanks.

The codex commentary basically identifies all the issues with the Grey Knights codex and fixes them for Custodians (-1 to hit, better invul saves on elite units). It's kind of insulting.

Custodes has no psy powers... two completely different army styles.

Tempted to just use regular Marines with Custodes rules. Instant Movie Marines!!

I do feel bad for the GK.

The Custodes really do steal their thunder, and it is fairly obvious that GW actually tried this time.

I still don't think the Custodians will be particularly viable [solo, at least].

Shield Cpt on Dawn Eagle is new smash fakker.

 Primark G wrote:
Yeah it’s crazy good for the Imperium armies.

I think so, too, but what's the minimum cost to get no morale tests? Surely that is going to take a huge chunk out of normal lists and you don't get artifacts with an Aux, right?

 Primark G wrote:
Custodes has no psy powers... two completely different army styles.

no he's right, GW put out a codex for GKs that was basicly phoning it in. no real thought put to it.no effort to fix the holes in the codex.Custodes is clearly an attempt to reckongize and address the flaws in a super elite army.

that said giving GKs the "everything has OS. EVEYTHING" rule would be an easy FAQ that would make them a little more viable

Daedalus81 wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
Yeah it’s crazy good for the Imperium armies.

I think so, too, but what's the minimum cost to get no morale tests? Surely that is going to take a huge chunk out of normal lists and you don't get artifacts with an Aux, right?

You can't get a relic doing it but you can get the flag (granting morale rerolls and a 5++ bubble) in a Vanguard detachment with an Inquisitor and two one-man naked Acolytes for <200pts, if I recall correctly. (I may be off on the points, people who have seen them have made YouTube videos talking about it but they haven't been written down and posted anywhere that I can see.)

If you want the relic flag you can, but you have to make the flag dude your Warlord (the condition attached to getting relics is "if a [faction] character is your warlord", nothing to do with detachments). I don't know if it's worth doing given that I think that flag gives up the 5++ bubble and you'd lose out on whatever other relics/Warlord traits you might find more useful (command point regen in Guard, for instance).

This codex is hot.

Have ordered the book, cards and general bod here - already have 15 models (only five built, which appears to be a viable patrol detachment now of shield captain, three bods and a bod with a bit of bling on a stick) - holding off building the others until I actually have the book.

wasn't sold at first, but had the first ten through two prospero boxes and actually kind of like them, they are nice to paint, not overly nice to build (fitting shoulder pads mostly).

plan was a special forces type element for some more normal marines that may be useful in larger games as a sort of fire fighting hit squad around enemy high value characters.

expecting now that 15 of them, general, the LR & dread from the talons box is likely a smallish but viable army for some types of games.


Appears though they will suffer what all elite armies suffer, draw a mission around objectives with more than one or two of them and you may as well shake your opponents hand, these guys should be able to take one, and likely hold it, they may be able to do this while holding another, but on a table with 4+ of them and maelstrom missions the enemy should be able to rack up a decent score without the banana bunch getting in the way too much, and a horde can just bog them down in bodies that they will kill, just not fast enough to matter.

Three of these guys, or the new terminators, say high to a unit of 30 grots with a runtherd to stop them legging it - yup, you will liquidise them, but it will take the turn the charge you and the one after it most probably, costing you a vital turn of doing anything useful.


I can see them doing well, but I can also see them being an army thats not easy to make do well.

This probably means mine have no hope, sticking the built ones on a shelf next to a mix of orks and chaos models may have disheartened them a bit

I can see the Stratagem that turns their termites into separate, single man units as being a great way to help them weather massed firepower, but overall it's just another GW sales tactic by releasing yet more unnecessary Imperium models for those people who want something different to the very common Grey Knights.

It's well played though as I'm sure they'll sell loads, but overall not ground breaking. Sisters will likely follow the same route and appear after sales of Custodes have started to decline.

Army wise, not that impressed. This edition plays well to hoardes, mass shooting and speed. The custodes and their low model count are just fodder. Very resistant fodder, but a hundred or so lasguns will hurt them a lot.

Sumilidon wrote:
I can see the Stratagem that turns their termites into separate, single man units as being a great way to help them weather massed firepower, but overall it's just another GW sales tactic by releasing yet more unnecessary Imperium models for those people who want something different to the very common Grey Knights.

It's well played though as I'm sure they'll sell loads, but overall not ground breaking. Sisters will likely follow the same route and appear after sales of Custodes have started to decline.

Army wise, not that impressed. This edition plays well to hoardes, mass shooting and speed. The custodes and their low model count are just fodder. Very resistant fodder, but a hundred or so lasguns will hurt them a lot.

A 100 lasguns don't even kill a single basic custodes.

Surviving doesnt look to be the main problem for them. Its having enough firepower to get through the enemy.

My thoughts on the new Custodes codex is: “Wow, finally Grey Knights get the codex they deserve ... oh, wait, it’s Custodes. <places GK army back on shelf>”

SJ