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 jeffersonian000 wrote:
My thoughts on the new Custodes codex is: “Wow, finally Grey Knights get the codex they deserve ... oh, wait, it’s Custodes. <places GK army back on shelf>”

SJ

Use Grey Knights models with Custodes rules

Lots of GK salt here.

 Primark G wrote:
Lots of GK salt here.

between 1k sons with their 3 power lists to choose from, and custoides which might just be "elites done right" GKs have plenty to BE salty about

It sucks you come here and derail the thread.

 Primark G wrote:
It sucks you come here and derail the thread.

I'm not intending to derail. I'm a big fan of custodes and uber eager for it. but at the same time, I can understand why a GK would be salty. Custodes do the elites thing and does it well, 1K sons is the "other psyker guys" and gets 3 spell disiplines. yeah as someone with a force of GKs I can understand it. but at the same time, I'm excited as custodes seems like GW may be trying to address the "elites" issue and 1K sons looks like a much better example of how to do a fun psyker heavy 'dex

GKs are also the natural comparison point. We don't have the 'dex yet but my over all personal impression is AC's knock it outta the park

Remember Custodes don’t have a good defense versus enemy psychic powers like Smite but GK do - I think Custodes will need support from another force so maybe you make an army using both Custodes and GK. Glad to know you’re excited about them. XD

 Primark G wrote:
Remember Custodes don’t have a good defense versus enemy psychic powers like Smite but GK do - I think Custodes will need support from another force so maybe you make an army using both Custodes and GK. Glad to know you’re excited about them. XD

True, and I think this is where Custodes and GKs differ, Custodes are a PURE physical force elite army, GKs are a "psyker elite army" custodes should proably have an advantage toe to toe, with GKs having psykic powers to make up for it. the big problem is the small spell listt.

Would be intreasting to see how the two armies could synergize.

 Crimson wrote:
I think it is cool that this exists, being able to play stuff that exist in fluff is always cool.

I'm not sure I will get them myself. I'm not great fan of the super blingy aesthetic. The black colour scheme looks nice though, and I'd kinda want to try painting that. I might get a some to ally to my imperial soup. One squad, captain, vexilla, or something like that.

It is a bit annoying, that again (just like it often was with marines) the biker captain is a no brainer choice. It seems to be so much better than the foot slogging one, for pretty moderate bump in cost. The bikes itself are really nice, but I think I like the aesthetic of the foot slogging captain more. Besides, as it seems that the minimum squad size of the bikes is three, and there is only three in the box, getting a bike captain will be annoying. You need to get two boxes if you don't want to waste your two extra bikes, and even then a squad of five seems pretty excessive to me, considering the point cost.

Take 3 bike captains. Why take the bikes when 2 of them is more expensive than the captain despite having less survivability and only marginally higher damage output.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ordana wrote:
Dont forget most (all) Custodus will be running around with a 3/4++. So half your AT fire is going to do nothing.
And the -1 to hit banner to further reduce effectiveness.

And then 1/3 to half the time your AT weapon won't do enough wounds to kill a model.

I can see them being disgustingly resilient (put intended)

Heavy bolters and assault cannons and autocannons are better at killing custodes than Lascannons.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
Remember Custodes don’t have a good defense versus enemy psychic powers like Smite but GK do - I think Custodes will need support from another force so maybe you make an army using both Custodes and GK. Glad to know you’re excited about them. XD

True, and I think this is where Custodes and GKs differ, Custodes are a PURE physical force elite army, GKs are a "psyker elite army" custodes should proably have an advantage toe to toe, with GKs having psykic powers to make up for it. the big problem is the small spell listt.

Would be intreasting to see how the two armies could synergize.

...Hold on a moment. Grey Knights have an abundance of reasonably cost-effective S4 shooting but limited tools for handling hard targets. Custodes don't have enough volume of shots to clear chaff so they can go after the scary things they're good at fighting...

The plot thickens.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
Remember Custodes don’t have a good defense versus enemy psychic powers like Smite but GK do - I think Custodes will need support from another force so maybe you make an army using both Custodes and GK. Glad to know you’re excited about them. XD

True, and I think this is where Custodes and GKs differ, Custodes are a PURE physical force elite army, GKs are a "psyker elite army" custodes should proably have an advantage toe to toe, with GKs having psykic powers to make up for it. the big problem is the small spell listt.

Would be intreasting to see how the two armies could synergize.

...Hold on a moment. Grey Knights have an abundance of reasonably cost-effective S4 shooting but limited tools for handling hard targets. Custodes don't have enough volume of shots to clear chaff so they can go after the scary things they're good at fighting...

The plot thickens.

Do the Custodes know the GKs exist? I can't imagine the Custodes would allow themselves to be mind-wiped either if they fought together. Do the GKs just choose not to mess with the Custodes like they do with everyone else? Are they okay with 10,000 bopping around knowing they exist?

My thoughts... oh another Imperial Army...

 Sim-Life wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
Remember Custodes don’t have a good defense versus enemy psychic powers like Smite but GK do - I think Custodes will need support from another force so maybe you make an army using both Custodes and GK. Glad to know you’re excited about them. XD

True, and I think this is where Custodes and GKs differ, Custodes are a PURE physical force elite army, GKs are a "psyker elite army" custodes should proably have an advantage toe to toe, with GKs having psykic powers to make up for it. the big problem is the small spell listt.

Would be intreasting to see how the two armies could synergize.

...Hold on a moment. Grey Knights have an abundance of reasonably cost-effective S4 shooting but limited tools for handling hard targets. Custodes don't have enough volume of shots to clear chaff so they can go after the scary things they're good at fighting...

The plot thickens.

Do the Custodes know the GKs exist? I can't imagine the Custodes would allow themselves to be mind-wiped either if they fought together. Do the GKs just choose not to mess with the Custodes like they do with everyone else? Are they okay with 10,000 bopping around knowing they exist?

I don't have a primary source for this but I'd be startled if they didn't, given how high up within the command structure of the Imperium the Custodes normally operate and how intimately familiar they've got to be with the mechanics of the Warp after the whole War in the Webway thing.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
Remember Custodes don’t have a good defense versus enemy psychic powers like Smite but GK do - I think Custodes will need support from another force so maybe you make an army using both Custodes and GK. Glad to know you’re excited about them. XD

True, and I think this is where Custodes and GKs differ, Custodes are a PURE physical force elite army, GKs are a "psyker elite army" custodes should proably have an advantage toe to toe, with GKs having psykic powers to make up for it. the big problem is the small spell listt.

Would be intreasting to see how the two armies could synergize.

...Hold on a moment. Grey Knights have an abundance of reasonably cost-effective S4 shooting but limited tools for handling hard targets. Custodes don't have enough volume of shots to clear chaff so they can go after the scary things they're good at fighting...

The plot thickens.

Do the Custodes know the GKs exist? I can't imagine the Custodes would allow themselves to be mind-wiped either if they fought together. Do the GKs just choose not to mess with the Custodes like they do with everyone else? Are they okay with 10,000 bopping around knowing they exist?

I don't have a primary source for this but I'd be startled if they didn't, given how high up within the command structure of the Imperium the Custodes normally operate and how intimately familiar they've got to be with the mechanics of the Warp after the whole War in the Webway thing.

They know about them just fine, ref: Watcher's on the throne which sees them fighting together against the Khorne invasion of terra...

which gives me a fun idea for a silly yet thematic list, Valoris, Dragio, Volous, and Gulliman

ERJAK wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
I think it is cool that this exists, being able to play stuff that exist in fluff is always cool.

I'm not sure I will get them myself. I'm not great fan of the super blingy aesthetic. The black colour scheme looks nice though, and I'd kinda want to try painting that. I might get a some to ally to my imperial soup. One squad, captain, vexilla, or something like that.

It is a bit annoying, that again (just like it often was with marines) the biker captain is a no brainer choice. It seems to be so much better than the foot slogging one, for pretty moderate bump in cost. The bikes itself are really nice, but I think I like the aesthetic of the foot slogging captain more. Besides, as it seems that the minimum squad size of the bikes is three, and there is only three in the box, getting a bike captain will be annoying. You need to get two boxes if you don't want to waste your two extra bikes, and even then a squad of five seems pretty excessive to me, considering the point cost.

Take 3 bike captains. Why take the bikes when 2 of them is more expensive than the captain despite having less survivability and only marginally higher damage output.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ordana wrote:
Dont forget most (all) Custodus will be running around with a 3/4++. So half your AT fire is going to do nothing.
And the -1 to hit banner to further reduce effectiveness.

And then 1/3 to half the time your AT weapon won't do enough wounds to kill a model.

I can see them being disgustingly resilient (put intended)

Heavy bolters and assault cannons and autocannons are better at killing custodes than Lascannons.

Actually. Assuming space marine stats firing at a basic Custodus only the Assault Cannon performs better on a 'wounds per point' basis then the Lascannon
The 2+ save really keeps them save against ap -1 weapons.

Assault cannon: 6 shots 4/6 hit, 4/6 wound, 2/6 fails, 1 dmg is only 0.88 wounds for 21 points or 0,042 wounds per point.
H. Bolter: 3 shots, 4/6 hit, 3/6 wound, 2/6 fails, 1 dmg is 0,33 wounds for 10 points or 0,033 wounds per point.
Autocannon: 2 shots, 4/6 hit, 4/6 wound, 2/6 fails, 2 dmg is 0,59 wounds for 15 points or 0,039 wounds per point (points taken from IG codex since Marines don't have single autocannons)
Lascannon: 1 shot, 4/6 hit, 4/6 wound, 4/6 fails, 3.5 dmg is 1,03 wounds for 25 points or 0,041 wounds per point.
Meltagun: 1 shot, 4/6 hit, 4/6 wound, 4/6 fails, 3.5 dmg is 1,03 wounds for 17 points or 0,061 wounds per point.
Rapid fire Overcharged Plasma: 2 shots, 4/6 hit, 4/6 wound, 4/6 fails, 2 dmg is 1,18 wounds for 13 points or 0,091 wounds per point.

usmcmidn wrote:
My thoughts... oh another Imperial Army...

Xenos players has a lot of salt.

 Primark G wrote:

usmcmidn wrote:
My thoughts... oh another Imperial Army...

Xenos players has a lot of salt.

We have Demiurgs mining it 24/7 in the Tau Empire.

Dwarves I meant Space Dwarves yeah.

Ordana wrote:
A 100 lasguns don't even kill a single basic custodes.

100 lasgun shots don't quite kill a single Custodes, on average.

Bear in mind that you only need 27 actual lasguns in order to have enough shots to reliably bring one down, though.

Your other calculations above aren't taking into account the -1 to hit or the 3++ saves, either.

Assault cannon: 6 shots, 3/6 hit, 4/6 wound, 2/6 fails, 1 dmg is 0.67 wounds for 21 points or 0.032 wounds per point.
H. Bolter: 3 shots, 3/6 hit, 3/6 wound, 2/6 fails, 1 dmg is 0.25 wounds for 10 points or 0.025 wounds per point.
Autocannon: 2 shots, 2/6 hit, 4/6 wound, 2/6 fails, 2 dmg is 0.30 wounds for 12 points or 0.025 wounds per point (using IG autocannon at BS4+)
Lascannon: 1 shot, 3/6 hit, 4/6 wound, 2/6 fails, 3.5 dmg is 0.39 wounds for 25 points or 0.016 wounds per point.
Meltagun: 1 shot, 3/6 hit, 4/6 wound, 2/6 fails, 3.5 dmg is 0.39 wounds for 17 points or 0.023 wounds per point.
Rapid Fire Overcharged Plasma: 2 shots, 3/6 hit, 4/6 wound, 2/6 fails, 2 dmg is 0.44 wounds for 13 points or 0.034 wounds per point.