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Addendum:

I also wouldn't mind a MW on 6's in Melee for Terminators against HQs

Wardens could get the wulfen rule which allows them to attack even when they died and they should be the infantry unit that does the most damage. So then termis would do more damage than normal guardians and also be tougher and warden should be a little tougher than guardians but do a lot more damage.

Two attack profiles could be the thing that differentiates Custodes from the rest so it would be nice if the the whole army had that rule.

Heroic intervention for the whole army SW have why don't we?

got a leak from people close to GW

4+++ FNP against MW
fraction wise 4++(infan/bike)
biker w5, termi w4
sword +1 3 2
halberd +2 3 2
axe +3 2 2(yeah...)
sister as troop but limited numbers (<= custode troop numbers)
bike melta missle got nerf but got d3+3
bike melee charged +1 to wound
many stratagem tuned down or limited to core units


got a special fraction wise ability close to NEC command protocol, choose 3 out of 6, You can choose A1 or A2 by the beginning. if you choose A1, you can switch to A2 or B1 or B2 by round 2. if A2 chosen, only B1 and B2 available.

Sisters as a troop would certainly be nice, as would the 4++ against mortals.

superninja_834 wrote:
got a leak from people close to GW

4+++ FNP against MW
fraction wise 4++(infan/bike)
biker w5, termi w4
sword +1 3 2
halberd +2 3 2
axe +3 2 2(yeah...)
sister as troop but limited numbers (<= custode troop numbers)
bike melta missle got nerf but got d3+3
bike melee charged +1 to wound
many stratagem tuned down or limited to core units


got a special fraction wise ability close to NEC command protocol, choose 3 out of 6, You can choose A1 or A2 by the beginning. if you choose A1, you can switch to A2 or B1 or B2 by round 2. if A2 chosen, only B1 and B2 available.

Feed us moar.

D2 weapons is disappointing but understandable. I generally thought d3 on the axe seemed a little extreme. I know we're amazing, but do we really expect the axe to hit as hard as a thunder hammer?

4+++ against mortals seems excessive. I won't say no to that, but that does seem excessive. It means psychic powers would actually be a very inefficient way to remove models (needing on average 4 successful smites to kill each 4w custodian), making the sisters of silence moot as psyker protection. They may still find a place as cheap troop fillers for detachments that want to minimize standard custodian guard squads.

D3 + 3 damage melta missile makes our bikes decent tank hunters. Average 5 damage, a unit of 5 bikes is more likely than not to kill many piñatas in the game, then charge in to scoop up the candy.

Still a lot of important details missing, like what is going to be core, what the points look like and how our strats will go. Part of what made us last so long in 9th was an excellent strategem toolbox, which we won't need to rely on so much if our units get a bit better.

Edited for math error.

Four smites, actually.

4d3 averages to 8, with a 4+++, that’d be one dead Custode at 4 wounds.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Four smites, actually.

4d3 averages to 8, with a 4+++, that’d be one dead Custode at 4 wounds.

You are correct

Mad_Proctologist wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Four smites, actually.

4d3 averages to 8, with a 4+++, that’d be one dead Custode at 4 wounds.

You are correct

If there’s one thing I can do, it’s math.

But yeah, even at 50 PPM, that’s 6.25 Points Per Effective Wound with a 4+++ and W4.
That’s literally only .25 PPEW worse than Plaguebearers.

superninja_834 wrote:
got a leak from people close to GW

4+++ FNP against MW
fraction wise 4++(infan/bike)
biker w5, termi w4
sword +1 3 2
halberd +2 3 2
axe +3 2 2(yeah...)
sister as troop but limited numbers (<= custode troop numbers)
bike melta missle got nerf but got d3+3
bike melee charged +1 to wound
many stratagem tuned down or limited to core units


got a special fraction wise ability close to NEC command protocol, choose 3 out of 6, You can choose A1 or A2 by the beginning. if you choose A1, you can switch to A2 or B1 or B2 by round 2. if A2 chosen, only B1 and B2 available.

Any info on Wardens? Anything new for them?

"got a leak from people close to GW" - Tell me more please. Did they "know a friend"?

Because I heard from a homeless guy at a shelter that the winning powerball numbers are 6,5,7,2,1, and green.

Mad_Proctologist wrote:

superninja_834 wrote:
got a leak from people close to GW

4+++ FNP against MW
fraction wise 4++(infan/bike)
biker w5, termi w4
sword +1 3 2
halberd +2 3 2
axe +3 2 2(yeah...)
sister as troop but limited numbers (<= custode troop numbers)
bike melta missle got nerf but got d3+3
bike melee charged +1 to wound
many stratagem tuned down or limited to core units


got a special fraction wise ability close to NEC command protocol, choose 3 out of 6, You can choose A1 or A2 by the beginning. if you choose A1, you can switch to A2 or B1 or B2 by round 2. if A2 chosen, only B1 and B2 available.

Feed us moar.

D2 weapons is disappointing but understandable. I generally thought d3 on the axe seemed a little extreme. I know we're amazing, but do we really expect the axe to hit as hard as a thunder hammer?

4+++ against mortals seems excessive. I won't say no to that, but that does seem excessive. It means psychic powers would actually be a very inefficient way to remove models (needing on average 4 successful smites to kill each 4w custodian), making the sisters of silence moot as psyker protection. They may still find a place as cheap troop fillers for detachments that want to minimize standard custodian guard squads.

D3 + 3 damage melta missile makes our bikes decent tank hunters. Average 5 damage, a unit of 5 bikes is more likely than not to kill many piñatas in the game, then charge in to scoop up the candy.

Still a lot of important details missing, like what is going to be core, what the points look like and how our strats will go. Part of what made us last so long in 9th was an excellent strategem toolbox, which we won't need to rely on so much if our units get a bit better.

Edited for math error.

4+++ is actually part of the "new ability", don't forget drukhari and ork and nec could unleash tons of mw in melee or shooting.

Bike lost its biggest advantage against vehicles

For the core sake, core keyword was updated few months ago and would more likely stays that way. So, now is a good timing to sell ur telemon
That's all I know, the book is on the way anyway.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

superninja_834 wrote:
got a leak from people close to GW

4+++ FNP against MW
fraction wise 4++(infan/bike)
biker w5, termi w4
sword +1 3 2
halberd +2 3 2
axe +3 2 2(yeah...)
sister as troop but limited numbers (<= custode troop numbers)
bike melta missle got nerf but got d3+3
bike melee charged +1 to wound
many stratagem tuned down or limited to core units


got a special fraction wise ability close to NEC command protocol, choose 3 out of 6, You can choose A1 or A2 by the beginning. if you choose A1, you can switch to A2 or B1 or B2 by round 2. if A2 chosen, only B1 and B2 available.

Any info on Wardens? Anything new for them?

Didn't mention

superninja_834 wrote:
got a leak from people close to GW

4+++ FNP against MW
fraction wise 4++(infan/bike)
biker w5, termi w4
sword +1 3 2
halberd +2 3 2
axe +3 2 2(yeah...)
sister as troop but limited numbers (<= custode troop numbers)
bike melta missle got nerf but got d3+3
bike melee charged +1 to wound
many stratagem tuned down or limited to core units


got a special fraction wise ability close to NEC command protocol, choose 3 out of 6, You can choose A1 or A2 by the beginning. if you choose A1, you can switch to A2 or B1 or B2 by round 2. if A2 chosen, only B1 and B2 available.

Welcome to DakkaDakka.

I appreciate you bringing us news but i am skeptical.

Those changes make little sense and would be a nerf for the damage because 2dmg is worse than d3 dmg against -1 dmg which so many units have now.
Strength 7 spears would almost be pointless when you have a strength 6 sword.
Tuned down and limited strats would also be a big nerf
Bikes having only +1 to wound would be a nerf

4+++ would be such an exessiv buff vs TS and other psyker armys(not very believable)

d2 is buff over dd3 vs anything with w2 without -1dam rule though.

Strat thing seems comparable to previous books. Guess gw could go for another mid-edition design ethos change.

tneva82 wrote:
d2 is buff over dd3 vs anything with w2 without -1dam rule though.


Strat thing seems comparable to previous books. Guess gw could go for another mid-edition design ethos change.

on averege d3 dmg and 2 dmg is the same so no buff dmg wise it just make the dmg more consistent.

S6 swords means no one would ever take the spears since S7 isn't in that sweet spot S6 and S8 axes are. Unless they SERIOUSLY buff the shooting on spears. I'm talking rapid fire 2/assault 4 and ap -1

Yeah I don't buy it.

 nordsturmking wrote:

superninja_834 wrote:
got a leak from people close to GW

4+++ FNP against MW
fraction wise 4++(infan/bike)
biker w5, termi w4
sword +1 3 2
halberd +2 3 2
axe +3 2 2(yeah...)
sister as troop but limited numbers (<= custode troop numbers)
bike melta missle got nerf but got d3+3
bike melee charged +1 to wound
many stratagem tuned down or limited to core units


got a special fraction wise ability close to NEC command protocol, choose 3 out of 6, You can choose A1 or A2 by the beginning. if you choose A1, you can switch to A2 or B1 or B2 by round 2. if A2 chosen, only B1 and B2 available.

Welcome to DakkaDakka.

I appreciate you bringing us news but i am skeptical.

Those changes make little sense and would be a nerf for the damage because 2dmg is worse than d3 dmg against -1 dmg which so many units have now.
Strength 7 spears would almost be pointless when you have a strength 6 sword.
Tuned down and limited strats would also be a big nerf
Bikes having only +1 to wound would be a nerf

4+++ would be such an exessiv buff vs TS and other psyker armys(not very believable)

I never said it would be a buff comparing to what we have now. Generally gw took something, and give back something, but overall is a net loss. However custodes performance would be more predictable and consistent in the new codex. And I personally ok with the current status of custode, win rate was being 50+ if i recall. After all a typical custode player would only need to pay for handful of GW models and some FW units(optional but good to have) to make it "playable", comparing to space marine/orks/drukhari...

 nordsturmking wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
d2 is buff over dd3 vs anything with w2 without -1dam rule though.


Strat thing seems comparable to previous books. Guess gw could go for another mid-edition design ethos change.

on averege d3 dmg and 2 dmg is the same so no buff dmg wise it just make the dmg more consistent.

Eeehh....no. That's why I said W2.

Rolling 1 and 3 wounds for W2 models does not result in 2 dead models. Rolling higher than average does not compensate rolling lower than average.

Try it. Roll 1 vs W2 model. Then roll 3. Did you kill 2 models? If yes you will find hard to find opponents seeing you would be cheating.

Whenever you deal with weapons that deal more damage than W characteristic simple tohit*towound*pastsave*damage calculation simply breaks down in usefullness. Do you know what that algorithm gave for 8e necron pylon vs baneblade? 31 damage in average. Vs 24W model. do you know odds of one shotting was? 57%...

Actual useful damage when you factor away overkill and the fact better than average does not compensate for over average was more like 19 damage. This on d6 shot hitting on 3+, wounding on 2+, straight past save and (6+d3)*2 damage.

tneva82 wrote:

 nordsturmking wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
d2 is buff over dd3 vs anything with w2 without -1dam rule though.


Strat thing seems comparable to previous books. Guess gw could go for another mid-edition design ethos change.

on averege d3 dmg and 2 dmg is the same so no buff dmg wise it just make the dmg more consistent.

Eeehh....no. That's why I said W2.

Rolling 1 and 3 wounds for W2 models does not result in 2 dead models. Rolling higher than average does not compensate rolling lower than average.

Try it. Roll 1 vs W2 model. Then roll 3. Did you kill 2 models? If yes you will find hard to find opponents seeing you would be cheating.

Whenever you deal with weapons that deal more damage than W characteristic simple tohit*towound*pastsave*damage calculation simply breaks down in usefullness. Do you know what that algorithm gave for 8e necron pylon vs baneblade? 31 damage in average. Vs 24W model. do you know odds of one shotting was? 57%...

Actual useful damage when you factor away overkill and the fact better than average does not compensate for over average was more like 19 damage. This on d6 shot hitting on 3+, wounding on 2+, straight past save and (6+d3)*2 damage.

I didn't saw that that 2W part. In that case d2 is better.

I find it odd that we are focusing entirely on what changes will happen to our Infantry and cav units, but there has been extremely little mentioned about our BEST units, which are FW. Didn't GW say they would be getting updates in the codexes as well?

I do worry that they'll nerf the FW dreadnoughts to try and make the GW Contemptor more of a viable pick rather than buffing the GW Contemptor to an equivalent power level.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I find it odd that we are focusing entirely on what changes will happen to our Infantry and cav units, but there has been extremely little mentioned about our BEST units, which are FW. Didn't GW say they would be getting updates in the codexes as well?

Not that I have seen?

The FW compendium is already a thing, and the apparent MO of gw has been minor edits to bring faction rules into line, such as doctrina imperatives for admech.

I'd say its unlikely that our fw stuff will have much more than that done to it.

if at all, I'd expect them to get the CORE treatment as well.
After all, most Dreadnoughts got CORE and with Custodes they're pretty much the only option.
Since vehicles wont get core for sure, there otherwise would be really no units to get core otherwise.
Troops derived from the Guard kit
Terminators
MAYBE bikes and wardens, but I'd doubt it
With such a low unit count over all, restricting dreadnoughts out of CORE would be... interesting.

I swore I saw something back at the start of 9th that briefly covered "core rules" and Custodes had Vertus Praetors on this list. Am I misremembering?

 Thairne wrote:
if at all, I'd expect them to get the CORE treatment as well.
After all, most Dreadnoughts got CORE and with Custodes they're pretty much the only option.
Since vehicles wont get core for sure, there otherwise would be really no units to get core otherwise.
Troops derived from the Guard kit
Terminators
MAYBE bikes and wardens, but I'd doubt it
With such a low unit count over all, restricting dreadnoughts out of CORE would be... interesting.

The first half of the Custodes FW units have CORE. Flyers, tanks and telemon don't hve it.

FW has never been touched by a Codex and isn't likely to be by the Custodes one. So all FW stuff should be seen as final.

When I saw 2 damage on the Aquilons in the FW books but 1D3 damage on the FW spear units I feared. 2 damage for the rest is all right (I had hope for axes though, yes, they're a thunder hammer equivalent). 2 it is though. Nerf against -1 damage armies, buff (cause consistency is a buff) to others.

+1W to Termies and Bikes would be great.

S7 spears are now the light vehicle killers (remember, not all infantry can take axes, will help if you're fighting Armigers or transports or mirror matching our bikers).

Troop Sisters are a huge hurray even with limitation.

Melta-missiles may finally be useful, we'll see.

The stratagem changes, if truly weakening us, could doom us though. Have to see. That's the biggest concern at the moment.

Bikes losing re-roll all wounds for +1 to wound is a nerf. It would help if we had a re-roll wound aura that could actually keep up with them.

 mrhappyface wrote:
I do worry that they'll nerf the FW dreadnoughts to try and make the GW Contemptor more of a viable pick rather than buffing the GW Contemptor to an equivalent power level.

I really hope not, the FW Achillus is my favorite model in the army, and boy does it go down like a ton of bricks to any dedicated shooting.

Audustum wrote:
FW has never been touched by a Codex and isn't likely to be by the Custodes one. So all FW stuff should be seen as final.

When I saw 2 damage on the Aquilons in the FW books but 1D3 damage on the FW spear units I feared. 2 damage for the rest is all right (I had hope for axes though, yes, they're a thunder hammer equivalent). 2 it is though. Nerf against -1 damage armies, buff (cause consistency is a buff) to others.

+1W to Termies and Bikes would be great.

S7 spears are now the light vehicle killers (remember, not all infantry can take axes, will help if you're fighting Armigers or transports or mirror matching our bikers).

Troop Sisters are a huge hurray even with limitation.

Melta-missiles may finally be useful, we'll see.

The stratagem changes, if truly weakening us, could doom us though. Have to see. That's the biggest concern at the moment.

Bikes losing re-roll all wounds for +1 to wound is a nerf. It would help if we had a re-roll wound aura that could actually keep up with them.

I don't think they'll touch the FW dreads aside from point adjustments, but I am certain that the'll Errata the Aquilon and Venatari if the +1 wound in our main codex proves to be true.

I have been re-reviewing the Custodes rumors (not the one posted here the other day, but the one that came out with the photo of the swordsman) and I'm wondering... one of the rumors says "new character with a sort of litanies." It seems pretty clear to me that the rumor that there will be a new character is legit since we've got photos and rules of the new character; the swordsman. Do y'all think that this will be the character that will have litanies, if that rumors ends up being true? It seems like having litanies is kind of a big part of a character and there's no mention of litanies in the swordsman's rules that were released. Do you think that the swordsman will also have litany buffs that he can provide for nearby Custodians, or do you think that the "litany" rumor is bs and what's meant by "litanies" are his different fighting styles?

the latter.
He was also rumoured as a "Lieutnant style" character which he is not, he's more like a Company champion.
So mix-ups do and can happen.